If a plasma fan had to buy an LCD/LED, which would it be? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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If a plasma fan had to buy an LCD/LED, which would it be?

Hello all,
I have a 2010 Sammy PN58C8000. About 18 months ago I had to have the panel replaced due to pink banding. I had the BB extended warranty and they replaced it no questions asked. Now the banding is starting again on the new panel, but it's very faint. I suspect I can get another year out of it before it starts to 'bother me'. My extended BB warranty is due to up again in Nov and I'm going to re-new it. I have a feel I'm not going to be able to replace the panel again cause they're all gone, which leaves me with replacing the whole TV with the warranty. Since Panny and Sammy are now out of the game, I'm wondering what you guys would do if you were me and you needed a new set in 6-12 months? Here are my major questions:

1. I'm assuming that a 60" OLED will still be too pricey within the next year, so if I had to get an LED, which one would you recommend in the less than $3K range?

2. Do all the LED's still suffer from off angle viewing, and all the same I remember reading about 4 years ago when I was looking?

I know I can go into the LED Forum and read up on the this, but I wanted the opinion of PDP owners who are more critical of PQ.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 10:46 AM
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There are still 64" F5300 Sammy plasmas on the shelves.
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post #3 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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My question is in the spirit of high end plasmas being gone when I need to trade in for new TV
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post #4 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 11:21 AM
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^ In a year there will be a new gamut of choice to talk about.
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post #5 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 11:24 AM
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off angle viewing is still an issue, though IPS panels help with this. the problem, is IPS panels generally have worse black levels, so there's still a big compromise if you want it.


I personally have a HUGE issue with edgelit LED's. so much that I can basically say I will never buy an edgelit LED without dimming, and I'm unlikely to buy one with dimming. the last time I bought an LCD I had to return 3 different LED models, and opted for the CCFL backlit version instead, as it was better.


getting to the point, the only real option for a plasma replacement is going to be a good FALD unit. which unfortunately, brings us back to the issue of affordability. in all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised to see an oled cheaper than a good FALD in comparable sizes pretty soon. the only thing holding oled back is there's really only one company making them, so the competition and options are sparse.

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post #6 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 11:43 AM
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Thank you for posting this thread.

I have a 2009 Samsung PN58B860. Its PQ still boggles my mind, and since I've hade no coloration problems with it at all (so far), I'm unrealistically hoping it will last me the next thirty years... at which point I'll be 100, and may not care.

I've never actually looked into what "OLED" technology is (I'll do that research today), since the acronym "LED" in conjunction with "TV type" invariably causes me to immediately lose interest.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the informed responses to this question are like.

Edit: OK... after only twenty minutes of online research just now, the more I read about any LED TV technology, the worse it sounds. We plasmaphiles are doomed.

Last edited by B 26354; 08-09-2014 at 12:07 PM.
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post #7 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post
Thank you for posting this thread.

I have a 2009 Samsung PN58B860. Its PQ still boggles my mind, and since I've hade no coloration problems with it at all (so far), I'm unrealistically hoping it will last me the next thirty years... at which point I'll be 100, and may not care.

I've never actually looked into what "OLED" technology is (I'll do that research today), since the acronym "LED" in conjunction with "TV type" invariably causes me to immediately lose interest.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the informed responses to this question are like.

Edit: OK... after only twenty minutes of online research just now, the more I read about any LED TV technology, the worse it sounds. We plasmaphiles are doomed.
OLED is the "replacement" for plasma, since it doesn't have all the issues that are on LCD/LEDs, it has pure plack levels and off-axis viewing.
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post #8 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post
Thank you for posting this thread.

I have a 2009 Samsung PN58B860. Its PQ still boggles my mind, and since I've hade no coloration problems with it at all (so far), I'm unrealistically hoping it will last me the next thirty years... at which point I'll be 100, and may not care.

I've never actually looked into what "OLED" technology is (I'll do that research today), since the acronym "LED" in conjunction with "TV type" invariably causes me to immediately lose interest.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the informed responses to this question are like.

Edit: OK... after only twenty minutes of online research just now, the more I read about any LED TV technology, the worse it sounds. We plasmaphiles are doomed.
oled isn't lcd.


'led tv' are just lcd panels with a different backlight. the backlight can only do so much, and can't address many of the issues of lcd panels(viewing angle, motion, black level, etc) but when done very well, it can help with some those(mostly black levels with a good fald unit).


oled is fundamentally different from lcd. it is not a 'backlight' behind an lcd panel, and does not really share any commonalities to 'led tv's'. in a way it's like expecting plasma and lcd to be the same because they are both flat...


that being said, oled certainly isn't the perfect display technology yet either. but, it does provide some actual improvements in some key aspects, namely blacks! I'm sure you've heard of a kuro, the pinnacle of decades of plasma research and development, and one of the most expensive, high end plasmas every sold. and then gen 1 of oled comes along and trounces it in terms of blacks. that's impressive! and personally, I'm very hopeful that they continue developing oled, because I can't even imagine how good it could be by gen 5 or gen 10. we have to remember plasma was pretty crappy in its youth too, it took a lot of years to really mature into what we love today.


so don't give up faith yet! I think there's still one horse left worth betting on

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post #9 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 06:45 PM
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Thanks guys! Been reading up a bit on OLED. I definitely see what fierce is getting at... and incredibly, some of my "faith" has been restored.

My mistake was lumping OLED tech and LCD tech together. I see now that it really is an entirely different breed, with terrific potential. And the reminder about the prolonged evolution of plasma really helped put this whole topic into proper perspective.

Some things that I'm sure have helped my Samsung's color stability and longevity are that it's only on for an average of 2-3 hours a day (except during the Olympics or the Tour de France)... and I always have my living room completely darkened when it's on, so I'm able to keep its "Cell Light" setting at 5, instead of 10, and its Brightness setting is at 55.

Given that -- and barring catastrophic failure -- I'm actually expecting it to last me another solid five years or so (maybe even ten)... at which point you've given me hope that there may be an affordable viable alternative!

I definitely know about the 60" Pioneer KURO, by the way. Don't suppose there's a single enthusiast who didn't want one... myself included. As I recall, when I bought my Samsung in October of 2009, it was still just barely possible to find a KURO... but they were also still out of my price range.

Sadly, of course, none of this is overly helpful for JCUMV (the OP), who is hoping to find an affordable alternative within the next year.
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post #10 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 06:56 PM
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JCUMV,

I had a 58c7000 and had the panel replaced twice under warranty for the same pink menace. The second panel started showing problems within 6mo. The third time they just have me a new 60f5500. It's a great set and easily matches my c7000 in PQ plus the BT glasses never lose sync like the IR ones did.

If I were you, I'd get the panel replaced again while it's still under warranty. That way you have more time for the oled to mature and prices to come down before replacing the whole set.

A replacement panel is free, a new tv is not
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post #11 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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^ in another thread, it's rumored that the replacement panels for the 58 c8000 are gone. There is a side of me that wants to call BB in the next couple months before the ext warranty expires and have them look at my current panel. The pink banding is coming back but it's nothing compared to how bad it had gotten before. Knowing that's there are no replacement panels left for it, maybe they would offer up the F8500 as a replacement? When I bought mine, it was the Sammy flagship, seems only right they'd replace it with the current flagship, right?
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post #12 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 07:34 PM
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I currently have a Panasonic 65GT50 that's still going strong. My luck with plasma TVs has been dismal; no plasma has lasted me 3 years (panel failures generally in the 2nd year), my GT50 is my 4th plasma TV. But as the OP, I'm also worried about what's next for me. I have yet to see an LCD TV, no matter the price, that comes close to even a cheap plasma in terms of even back-lighting, black level and wide viewing angles. I suspect those like us who value these plasma virtues will be keenly watching the progress of OLED. I think once OLED overcomes its current technical limitations and price becomes more mainstream we'll all be set.
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post #13 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC7 View Post
I currently have a Panasonic 65GT50 that's still going strong. My luck with plasma TVs has been dismal; no plasma has lasted me 3 years (panel failures generally in the 2nd year), my GT50 is my 4th plasma TV. But as the OP, I'm also worried about what's next for me. I have yet to see an LCD TV, no matter the price, that comes close to even a cheap plasma in terms of even back-lighting, black level and wide viewing angles. I suspect those like us who value these plasma virtues will be keenly watching the progress of OLED. I think once OLED overcomes its current technical limitations and price becomes more mainstream we'll all be set.

I own the Panasonic GT50 as well and I agree with you, I haven't seen an LCD that is better in all aspects. I think the only worthy upgrade for us high end plasma owners is OLED. My set is still going strong , no IR/BI, deep inky blacks, good contrast, uniformity, excellent viewing angles, just a solid good performer. I have my eye on the new LG OLED 4k coming out soon. In a couple of years 4K OLED will be my next upgrade.

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post #14 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 08:45 PM
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I own the Panasonic GT50 as well and I agree with you, I haven't seen an LCD that is better in all aspects. I think the only worthy upgrade for us high end plasma owners is OLED. My set is still going strong , no IR/BI, deep inky blacks, good contrast, uniformity, excellent viewing angles, just a solid good performer. I have my eye on the new LG OLED 4k coming out soon. In a couple of years 4K OLED will be my next upgrade.
Zero IR/BI here too and have both a WiiU and a PS4 that get used a lot on it. The GT50 has been great so far (knock on wood), by far the best TV I've owned. I just dread the day it dies, and with my luck and past history that can happen any day now.
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post #15 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 09:12 PM
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Zero IR/BI here too and have both a WiiU and a PS4 that get used a lot on it. The GT50 has been great so far (knock on wood), by far the best TV I've owned. I just dread the day it dies, and with my luck and past history that can happen any day now.
I also use it with my HTPC/PS3. The GT50 was my first plasma, when I bought it I got a 5 year extended warranty from the Audio & Video store I bought it from. If I don't use the warranty, I get the money back for in store credit. Win win situation. Be positive!

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post #16 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 09:14 PM
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^ in another thread, it's rumored that the replacement panels for the 58 c8000 are gone. There is a side of me that wants to call BB in the next couple months before the ext warranty expires and have them look at my current panel. The pink banding is coming back but it's nothing compared to how bad it had gotten before. Knowing that's there are no replacement panels left for it, maybe they would offer up the F8500 as a replacement? When I bought mine, it was the Sammy flagship, seems only right they'd replace it with the current flagship, right?

Wouldn't hold your breath. I don't know what BB's warranty is like, but mine was through Samsung. When they told me I'd be getting the f5500 I said that it wasn't the same level as the c7000. They told me they go by feature set, not price. I tried for the 8500 but no dice. Won't hurt you to try for it though. I'd do it sooner rather than later while there are at least some plasmas still available.
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post #17 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 10:11 PM
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I would never, if OLED is short lived lets hope there will always be someone willing to sell their plasmas and that our plasmas and crts will last forever but more seriously if the Panasonic AX900 ever materializes it might be something to look at as they are no doubt working hard to match their past performance with plasma
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post #18 of 51 Old 08-09-2014, 11:32 PM
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I believe that the pink banding on the Samsung Panels can be fixed via a simple voltage tweak of the panel Vs by adjusting the corresponding potentiometer after taking off the back panel. You might want to look into it and at least have a service tech try that if you aren't comfortable trying it yourself.
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post #19 of 51 Old 08-10-2014, 03:00 AM
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I also have a GT50 and picked up a Sony W900A I was blown away with its PQ and all around performance. As a plasma fan I was not disappointed with the Sony led.
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post #20 of 51 Old 08-10-2014, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
I believe that the pink banding on the Samsung Panels can be fixed via a simple voltage tweak of the panel Vs by adjusting the corresponding potentiometer after taking off the back panel. You might want to look into it and at least have a service tech try that if you aren't comfortable trying it yourself.
^This. So many techs replace the panel without even trying to diagnose the cause of the pink tint. It is panel ageing requiring a Vs tweak; once stable (after a few thousand hr), there is no further adjustment necessary.
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post #21 of 51 Old 08-10-2014, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Tom669, I've heard you say this in the pink banding threads. When the first tech came out 18 months ago, I assumed he'd do this, and instead they replaced the panel. I've heard people say that within time, the setting you tweak with the regulator go outta sack too and the pink band comes back. Regardless, I'm not comfortable doing his myself.

Sounds like OLED is the thing to wait for. Nobody seems to know of a LED that they believe is comparable in PQ to plasma. Bummer.

I guess I'm now trying to decide if renewing my warranty in November is actually worth it. Would you guys do it?
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post #22 of 51 Old 08-10-2014, 12:38 PM
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I would save a little more coin and get yourself one of these. By far you will notice a big upgrade in pic quality comparing with your 2010 model.

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post #23 of 51 Old 08-10-2014, 01:10 PM
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I also have a GT50 and picked up a Sony W900A I was blown away with its PQ and all around performance. As a plasma fan I was not disappointed with the Sony led.
I recently sold my 65ST50 and replaced it with a Sony 65S990A and feel that the Sony does come very close to matching the Panasonic overall picture quality, and for daytime viewing and 3D (passive on the S990) it exceeds the ST50. However, I have a friend with a VT60 plasma and no LCD I've seen can touch that. But if moving from an older plasma to one of the better LCD sets like the higher end Sonys I agree most probably won't be disappointed unless off angle viewing is a problem.
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post #24 of 51 Old 08-11-2014, 03:37 AM
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I would save a little more coin and get yourself one of these. By far you will notice a big upgrade in pic quality comparing with your 2010 model.

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics...ywords=Oleg+TV
Amazing picture I'm sure but that's still pricey for a 55" set. Too small IMO.
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post #25 of 51 Old 08-11-2014, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Agreed. I sit 12 feet from the tv. Even the current 58" is a bit small. Next tv will be a 60".
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post #26 of 51 Old 08-11-2014, 10:53 AM
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I also have a GT50 and picked up a Sony W900A I was blown away with its PQ and all around performance. As a plasma fan I was not disappointed with the Sony led.
I replaced my yellow blobbed 55ST50 with a W900A earlier this year and I'm very happy with it. Off axis is the only real downside, but I spend most of my time smack in front of the TV so it's not a huge concern. Black levels come close enough in normal viewing that I really don't notice much (if any) difference and the color on it is fantastic. Sony's motion handling is far superior to what I had on the ST50 as well.

Both TVs had their own tradeoffs, but the takeaway is that I don't feel like I've downgraded at all.
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post #27 of 51 Old 08-11-2014, 04:46 PM
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Amazing picture I'm sure but that's still pricey for a 55" set. Too small IMO.
There is no tv at that price that has better picture quality, and 55" is not small at all to most people, unless we are talking a dedicated Theater room.

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^ Agreed. I sit 12 feet from the tv. Even the current 58" is a bit small. Next tv will be a 60".
Of course sitting distance changes everything. He never mentioned what his was.

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post #28 of 51 Old 08-11-2014, 06:49 PM
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There is no tv at that price that has better picture quality, and 55" is not small at all to most people, unless we are talking a dedicated Theater room.
in which case even 80" is pretty tiny


quality over quantity. I had to buy a new projector after buying the f8500. after seeing the quality of the f8500, I simply couldn't stand the inferior quality of my cheap projector. didn't matter that it was a 120" image, it was 120" of crap by comparison.


if I'm ever presented with the choice between a 55" 1080p OLED and a 80" UHD edgelit LED, that will be an easy decision for me but I'm assuming by the time I'm tired of the f8500, there will be enough oled TV's out there for me to choose what I want, and not just take the only one I can afford.

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post #29 of 51 Old 08-11-2014, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ChadThunder View Post
I would never, if OLED is short lived lets hope there will always be someone willing to sell their plasmas and that our plasmas and crts will last forever but more seriously if the Panasonic AX900 ever materializes it might be something to look at as they are no doubt working hard to match their past performance with plasma
True dat. I still buy my CRTs used, and it's likely to remain the same for plasmas as well. There's simply no settling to what I dislike since I'm especially fussy with PQ.

With that said, if I HAD to buy an LCD TV today, it will probably be the Vizio M. The Sony W600b's respectable for gamers, but it's still an edge-lit. The Samsung F6000 series also gets an honourable mention for having effective backlight scanning. Both the Sony and the Samsung can be had direct-lit as long as you do not go over 48 inches.
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post #30 of 51 Old 08-12-2014, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
quality over quantity. I had to buy a new projector after buying the f8500. after seeing the quality of the f8500, I simply couldn't stand the inferior quality of my cheap projector. didn't matter that it was a 120" image, it was 120" of crap by comparison.


if I'm ever presented with the choice between a 55" 1080p OLED and a 80" UHD edgelit LED, that will be an easy decision for me but I'm assuming by the time I'm tired of the f8500, there will be enough oled TV's out there for me to choose what I want, and not just take the only one I can afford.
The problem (for me at least) is that a 55" screen can't replicate what you get at the cinema. Sure, you can sit 3' from it, but it's just not the same, it still just feels like you're watching tv. There is a 2 dollar movie theater nearby that I go to quite often. Picture quality isn't as great as what you get from a 1st run theater, but it's still an immersive experience.

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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
There is no tv at that price that has better picture quality, and 55" is not small at all to most people, unless we are talking a dedicated Theater room.
I'd rather have a 64F8500 than a 55" OLED. I have a 60" in my bedroom and that is borderline small to me.

Last edited by StinDaWg; 08-12-2014 at 05:33 AM.
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