Image Burn in / image retention - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Image Burn in / image retention

Hi folks, I have been reading a few articles on here about Image Burn in on Panasonic Plasma TV's. Ive recently experienced this with my 50" Viera Plasma. I have it connected up to a PC for streaming music however I cant be sure but I think the sidebar in spotify has burnt a line into the screen. This may not be the cause but it appears in pretty much the same area. I just wondered has anyone experience with these sort of DVD's you can buy from ebay? Or can anyone recommend a better item that they have used with success?

table { }td { padding-top: 1px; padding-right: 1px; padding-left: 1px; color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align: bottom; border: medium none; white-space: nowrap; }.xl3396 { color: windowtext; font-size: 8pt; }.xl3397 { font-size: 8pt; }.xl3398 { color: windowtext; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: left; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; white-space: normal; }http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plasma-Pla...item4ada778920

Any other methods I could try to determine whether or not this is screen burn? Or try to remedy it?

Thanks
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post #2 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 08:43 AM
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You could give it a shot with a YouTube video of slides, instead of purchasing the DVD. Have a go at this channel and see if it helps out http://www.youtube.com/user/ScreenBurnFixer

My Samsung has screen burn protection slides built into the picture settings menu, so after watching something with black bars down the sides or top/bottom in 16:9, I give it a go for about 5-10 minutes after. It helps ensure that the next thing I watch doesn't have an off-look about it due to the black bars. Same goes for when I play a video game or watch network television for more than an hour, I wipe with slides for a few minutes before turning on any movies.

Best of luck to you, but do know it may take a surprising amount if time before seeing a real fix to your IR. In the future, if using the display for its speakers, consider using a screen saver or putting the computer display to sleep?

Edit: also see tons of advice in the big sticky thread for BI/IR Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only
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post #3 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool I will give that YouTube channel a try and check out the sticky thread too.

Yeah I didn't really think image burn was as much of a problem on newer panels. Unfortunately I was running an older version of Linux which stopped playback when the screen saver kicked in.
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post #4 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 09:46 AM
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I ran into quick-onset, highly persistent image retention on my Panasonic ST60, to the point where I needed to replace the TV. The Xbox One logo in the upper-right corner left a shadow visible against bright backgrounds for MONTHS, though the logo had only ever been on the screen for at most 15 minutes at a time. This was a year into the panel's life, too. Ridiculous. I started getting back into gaming, and needless to say I had more trouble with the HUD from another game, again without abusive play times -- just reasonable use.

I've switched to a Samsung LCD, but a few days in the lack of real black is already bothering me. I'm considering swapping it for the Samsung F8500, but my experience with that Panasonic has left me pretty skittish about plasma, much as I love the PQ.
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post #5 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Can I ask how you replaced the TV? Did you advertise it with having screen burn or not mention it?

I was going to have it examined by a certified panasonic repair centre but I am now thinking there isn't much point in wasting the time and money as it wouldn't be covered even if it was in warranty which it isn't. Likewise mine is just over a year old. I had an LG LCD previously but the picture wasn't as good.
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post #6 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfthinline View Post
I ran into quick-onset, highly persistent image retention on my Panasonic ST60, to the point where I needed to replace the TV. The Xbox One logo in the upper-right corner left a shadow visible against bright backgrounds for MONTHS, though the logo had only ever been on the screen for at most 15 minutes at a time. This was a year into the panel's life, too. Ridiculous. I started getting back into gaming, and needless to say I had more trouble with the HUD from another game, again without abusive play times -- just reasonable use.

I've switched to a Samsung LCD, but a few days in the lack of real black is already bothering me. I'm considering swapping it for the Samsung F8500, but my experience with that Panasonic has left me pretty skittish about plasma, much as I love the PQ.
I'm finally giving in and replacing my plasma with an LCD this year because of gaming. I was so cautious of burn in and IR upon initial purchase that I broke it in with slides and stuff in a separate room til I felt confident of using it in our living room. Seems to have paid off as I only ever had one tint bit that ever seems to have burnt in with any more persistence than casual temporary IR. But between gaming and wishing to move towards a full time HTPC, plasma just isn't ideal for me moving forward. If I had a larger home with the ability to have a game room, I'd gladly keep LCD there and plasma for movies in the living room; but that's just not the case for our current home. It's a shame that comparable LCD sets seem to cost a good but more than the plasma counterpart of the same size screen, but what can you do?
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post #7 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan2oo3 View Post
Can I ask how you replaced the TV? Did you advertise it with having screen burn or not mention it?
I posted to friends and coworkers that I was selling it, and mentioned the IR issue in detail, describing who might be affected by it (intense gamers and people who are very picky). Truth is I didn't even notice it with normal viewing, but know it was there and would continue to be a problem with other content drove me crazy.

Ended up just having it hauled away when the new TV was delivered; not the ideal situation in terms of cash, but I just wanted to be done with it. So frustrating.

I've searched extensively to see whether people have the same issue with the Samsung F8500, and honestly I'm not seeing it come up. People see some IR after hours and hours of static content, but they report it going away in a matter of minutes. That would be completely fine with me. In fact, I'm seeing posts from other gamers here who seem quite happy with the F8500; that's encouraging.

If I were JUST gaming, I'd stick with the LCD. But I'm a film buff, too, and those not-black black bars (and not-black blacks generally) on the LCD are driving me crazy.
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post #8 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Does LED not even come into the equation in comparison up plasma and LCD?
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post #9 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan2oo3 View Post
Does LED not even come into the equation in comparison up plasma and LCD?
The LCD I bought is labeled an "LED" because it has LED edge lighting, so I suppose it's an LED, but it's not an LED in the sense of full-array LED lighting, so it still has the usual drawbacks of LCDs.
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post #10 of 23 Old 09-08-2014, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan2oo3 View Post
Does LED not even come into the equation in comparison up plasma and LCD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfthinline View Post
The LCD I bought is labeled an "LED" because it has LED edge lighting, so I suppose it's an LED, but it's not an LED in the sense of full-array LED lighting, so it still has the usual drawbacks of LCDs.
they are both 'LCD' TV's.


the difference between what is commonly described as an 'lcd' tv and an 'led' tv is just the backlight being used.


an 'lcd' tv is an lcd panel in front of a ccfl backlight
an 'led' tv is an lcd panel in front of an led backlight


the ONLY advantage for picture quality to using an led backlight is the ability to dim the led's. there may be improved black levels due to this, but since they both use lcd panels, there will still be the same old issues with everything else.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
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post #11 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone got some recommendations of whether to use the scrolling bar or static from an analogue tv channel? I've heard the static basically just burns the rest of the screen so that it looks even. Does the scrolling bar do the same thing?
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post #12 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
the ONLY advantage for picture quality to using an led backlight is the ability to dim the led's. there may be improved black levels due to this, but since they both use lcd panels, there will still be the same old issues with everything else.
And unless it's a FALD TV, they will only be able to dim the whole panel... which is pretty horrible. Since FALD is mostly unavailable from the big manufacturers (Vizio has it)...

LED-LCD = conventional LCD

except it's more power efficient
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post #13 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 08:10 AM
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Post FALD TV's

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Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
And unless it's a FALD TV, they will only be able to dim the whole panel... which is pretty horrible. Since FALD is mostly unavailable from the big manufacturers (Vizio has it)...
2014 FALD LED/LCD list


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post #14 of 23 Old 09-12-2014, 06:36 AM
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So... a total of 8 models with FALD... but really I don't consider any set <64 zones to be FALD. It's just a fancier version of edge-lighting at that point.
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post #15 of 23 Old 09-12-2014, 07:45 AM
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So... a total of 8 models with FALD... but really I don't consider any set <64 zones to be FALD. It's just a fancier version of edge-lighting at that point.
That's why I'm glad I have a plasma.

Ian
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post #16 of 23 Old 09-14-2014, 08:43 AM
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That's why I'm glad I have a plasma.

Ian
Yep! FALD is a band-aid for a technological limitation. I love my 9G Kuro!
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post #17 of 23 Old 09-14-2014, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfthinline View Post
I posted to friends and coworkers that I was selling it, and mentioned the IR issue in detail, describing who might be affected by it (intense gamers and people who are very picky). Truth is I didn't even notice it with normal viewing, but know it was there and would continue to be a problem with other content drove me crazy.

Ended up just having it hauled away when the new TV was delivered; not the ideal situation in terms of cash, but I just wanted to be done with it. So frustrating.
So wait, you just had them take away your ST60, like in just trash it? Please tell me I am interpreting this wrong.
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post #18 of 23 Old 09-14-2014, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan2oo3 View Post
Has anyone got some recommendations of whether to use the scrolling bar or static from an analogue tv channel? I've heard the static basically just burns the rest of the screen so that it looks even. Does the scrolling bar do the same thing?
Static will certainly work well but is hard to create on modern TVs. The Disney WoW Disk has a pixel jogger that works great, at least for my ST50. You may need to run it for several hours or days depending on your IR. I run mine overnigt once a month when I remember. But truth be told I've had similar results running full screen, logo free content for the same amount of time. Many of the HBO channels will due, like HBO signature where almost all of the content is full screen and logo free.

I have also found that my panel becomes fairly IR resistant once is has warmed up for 30 minutes or more. Good luck.
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post #19 of 23 Old 09-15-2014, 08:29 AM
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why do people worry about IR .

If you aged it right you will not have to worry about IR . And 15 minutes on a static logo that is too much time common sense they are not idiot Proof oh how many hours did the set had
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post #20 of 23 Old 09-15-2014, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gus738 View Post
why do people worry about IR .

If you aged it right you will not have to worry about IR . And 15 minutes on a static logo that is too much time common sense they are not idiot Proof oh how many hours did the set had
You seem to be contradicting yourself. If you aged the panel correctly, you don't have to worry about IR, but 15 minutes of a static logo is too much time? Seems like you are in agreement that IR is a legitimate concern.
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post #21 of 23 Old 09-15-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
You seem to be contradicting yourself. If you aged the panel correctly, you don't have to worry about IR, but 15 minutes of a static logo is too much time? Seems like you are in agreement that IR is a legitimate concern.
if you watch 12 hours or longer every day for a whole year you will not worry about 15 minutes of ir but I think your set had about 800 hrs or so cry tubes has the same issue as well as oled

Last edited by gus738; 09-15-2014 at 09:37 AM.
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post #22 of 23 Old 09-15-2014, 10:33 AM
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Do we really need ANOTHER post about IR from idiots who "have it, but cannot see it under "normal" conditions". Let's all repeat the "don't play a game for 12 hours" or "watch 4x3 marathons for days" mantras a few hundred more times to someone who can't be bothered to read an owner's manual.

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post #23 of 23 Old 09-15-2014, 01:15 PM
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Actually guys, I really think some of the Panasonic models are more susceptible to this than the latest model Samsungs. Ive had both-- and Ive not had a lick of trouble with my F4500s, which are primarily gaming TVs, yet I did experience quite noticable IR for several days after my son played a certain video game on the TC-P50X60.

Im not sure if its the types of phosphors used to coat the plasma cells, or the voltages or cell light intensities, but there is a difference. The Sammys will show brief IR for a few seconds if you display a grid or something on the screen for a few minutes, but the IR fades in less than half a minute of regular content. Ive never seen overnight IR on any of my Samsung sets, and Im not particularly careful with any of them.

No fixed pixel emissive display will EVER be immune from IR or burn in, simply because shining bright light through any kind of colored coating will eventually cause some fade and/or color change of said material, but some sets are definitely worse than others in this regard.
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