Help me to understand the 60f8500 and calibration of it. sharpness at zero??? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 12Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Help me to understand the 60f8500 and calibration of it. sharpness at zero???

I need some help on understanding how to fine tune this tv. There are 4 modes of picture on the tv from factory. Dynamic looks really good because its bright and still shows good blacks. Movie mode is just dull and won't let bright things pop. I have already looked at other threads on how people set up the contrast, brightness sharpness and color levels. I messed with a pretty involved one and it made terminator 2 look pretty good at night but when i went to the factory setting of dynamic mode i was happy again. Problem with dynamic is that the blacks arent as black in dark scenes. Is it our job to know what lighting we need for each scene?

What i am most confused with is why do all the custom settings on see for the 8500 have sharpness at 0? Doesnt that dull out the picture? Dynamic mode has contrast at 100 and sharpness at 50 with ceiling at 20. Then i get my tv guy over here for a repair yesterday and i asked if he calibrated tv's and he said its a waste and won't do anything. Are the factory settings really the best or do i have a flagship tv that i should spend some more money on to take advantage of the color levels and options? I really just need a lesson on what to do to take advantage of features on this tv if anyone can help or point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
Nearsighted is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 11:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Wow... I realize the repairman said it and you didn't but saying calibration is a waste and liking dynamic mode isn't going to make you many friends around here.

Sharpness being too high adds noise around objects. It should be turned down with a quality signal source.

Put the TV on default Movie mode and change color temp to Warm 1. See if you get used to it. It's the closest to accurate out of the box.
Josh128 likes this.
AMartin56 is offline  
post #3 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 11:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Blue Rain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 31
OMG Dynamic is horrible., but hey ,whatever blows your socks off. .... I guess.
Blue Rain is online now  
post #4 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 11:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
jeffrey r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 24
This thread could probably go in the settings or owners thread, but be that as it may, remember that the settings posted by others are a suggestion, not the gospel. I very much appreciate all of the settings posts, and at this point, I have found the suggested general range of cell light, brightness, contrast, etc. in movie mode to be excellent. I would stay away from dynamic, but that is me, not you.

But I generally leave sharpness between 5-10, and may boost cell light and some of the other settings a bit. I want to provide an enjoyable experience for my wife and kids on a daily basis, in a variety of conditions and with a variety of programming. And a bright, sharp picture helps that out, even if at the slight expense of a bit of accuracy. It's your television, do what you like. But the suggested settings of our fine forum brethren are a great starting point.
jeffrey r is online now  
post #5 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 11:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Also...I didn't mean to be a jerk in my original post above, but if you like the set on dynamic mode than frankly it might be better to save some money and buy a cheaper LED TV. You'll be able to get the same sort of picture for a lot less money.

I also have one more setting suggestion. If in a darker room change to default movie mode...change color temp to warm 1 (warm two is a bit hot if you don't calibrate), color space to Native and try Gamma at -1. Put in a letter box movie and lower brightness until you don't see any dithering in the letterbox. Should only be a tick or two.

See if the above gives you a little more pop. Give it some time on these settings and if you still prefer dynamic that's fine but I would consider a cheaper TV.
AMartin56 is offline  
post #6 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,914
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearsighted View Post
I need some help on understanding how to fine tune this tv. There are 4 modes of picture on the tv from factory. Dynamic looks really good because its bright and still shows good blacks. Movie mode is just dull and won't let bright things pop. I have already looked at other threads on how people set up the contrast, brightness sharpness and color levels. I messed with a pretty involved one and it made terminator 2 look pretty good at night but when i went to the factory setting of dynamic mode i was happy again. Problem with dynamic is that the blacks arent as black in dark scenes. Is it our job to know what lighting we need for each scene?

What i am most confused with is why do all the custom settings on see for the 8500 have sharpness at 0? Doesnt that dull out the picture? Dynamic mode has contrast at 100 and sharpness at 50 with ceiling at 20. Then i get my tv guy over here for a repair yesterday and i asked if he calibrated tv's and he said its a waste and won't do anything. Are the factory settings really the best or do i have a flagship tv that i should spend some more money on to take advantage of the color levels and options? I really just need a lesson on what to do to take advantage of features on this tv if anyone can help or point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
I find that calibrated sets are a bit dull and dim myself. Most average Joe's will as well. What I like to do is get some good recommended settings from those in the know, and then slightly tweak off of them. That way you arent way out in Dynamic land, but still get a little extra pop and sizzle.

What I usually do is slighly crush the blacks (use calibration disc to find right spot then lower it by one or 2 clicks), then push the white levels up as far as possible without crushing whites (err on the high side of the range of calibrated setting). I also like to set simple color by skin tones, and then juice it a couple of notches for supra-color saturation.

Whatever you do Dynamic Mode is not where you should be. Standard Mode is OK. Apparently Movie Mode gives you access to some controls that arent available in Statndard Mode, most notably Film Mode.

So try these.

Movie Mode
Cell 20
Contrast 95
Brightness 45
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharpness 0 (this one I change for Standard Definition 480 streaming that I do = 50 for Roku Box)
Color Tone Warm1
Blacktone Off
Digital Clean View Off (on for the Standard Def Streaming)
MPEG Noise Reduction Off (on for the DVD Player or Satellite Dish)
HDMI Black Level - Low for both Roku & DVD Player
Film Mode - I use Auto2 for the DVD Player (which handles deinterlacing) and Auto2 for the Roku) Auto2 detection leans towards 60Hz Video and Auto1 leans towards need for Film deinterlacing) Auto2 seems like best practice.
Motion Judder Control - Off mostly (occassionally Standard) This is personal preference, if you like Soap Opera Effect then crank this up.
Black Optimizer Auto(or Off)
Dynamic Contrast Off
RGB Only Mode Off
Color Space Native
I dont mess with the White Balance or 10 pt White Balance controls.


Im pretty happy with these. Standard was my favorite right out of the box going with Samsung presets. Dynamic throws the colors way off among other things. Movie was a bit too muted. And Relaxed even worse.

Oh and go into the System menu and turn off Eco Mode.

Eventually I turned the Cell Light back down to around 15 or 16.

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"

Last edited by EscapeVelocity; 12-16-2014 at 12:17 PM.
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #7 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I appreciate all the responses and advice but why is dynamic mode so bad? Let say if i am watching news or late night talk shows, i find that they look best being vibrant and bright with lots of color. To me and this is just me, i find that movie mode is dark and sharpness at 0 is dull. I will play around with it and see if i can used to it though on those settings.
Nearsighted is offline  
post #8 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 12:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
QuiGonJosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rain View Post
OMG Dynamic is horrible., but hey ,whatever blows your socks off. .... I guess.
Just wait for the IR story in a few weeks if he keeps it on Dynamic.
QuiGonJosh is online now  
post #9 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 12:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,914
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearsighted View Post
I appreciate all the responses and advice but why is dynamic mode so bad? Let say if i am watching news or late night talk shows, i find that they look best being vibrant and bright with lots of color. To me and this is just me, i find that movie mode is dark and sharpness at 0 is dull. I will play around with it and see if i can used to it though on those settings.

Dynamic Mode kills accurate colors. It doesnt just kill them it totally destroys them.

I would default to Standard Mode if you like it bright.

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #10 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 12:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
QuiGonJosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearsighted View Post
I appreciate all the responses and advice but why is dynamic mode so bad? Let say if i am watching news or late night talk shows, i find that they look best being vibrant and bright with lots of color. To me and this is just me, i find that movie mode is dark and sharpness at 0 is dull. I will play around with it and see if i can used to it though on those settings.
If you can tell a difference with the naked eye between sharpness at 50 and at 0 on HD content, then you must have superheroic vision. Dynamic is lackluster because it's not accurate to how things look in the real world. Skin tones and colors are all over the place. It looks fine in a showroom, but at home under normal conditions it's unsuitable if you want a picture that's anywhere near accurate or natural.
QuiGonJosh is online now  
post #11 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 12:37 PM
 
nipalikewalnuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post
If you can tell a difference with the naked eye between sharpness at 50 and at 0 on HD content, then you must have superheroic vision....
??

I can really tell on HD content.
nipalikewalnuts is online now  
post #12 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,914
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Sound to me like you are a prime candidate for a Vizio M602i Full Array Local Dimming LED-LCD

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #13 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Not saying this isnt the right tv for me but if im watching broadcast tv and reality shows, it seems to me that dynamic mode makes detail on the faces look more real, you can see sweat, wrinkles etc. on movie mode with sharpness at 0 and setting on warm it kinda just dulls everything out and isnt using the brightness of the tv. Am i the only one that notices this? I have a 7 year old samsung plasma 720p that i ran on dynamic mode all the time and didnt have IR. in fact i left that thing on overnight many times and had a ghost image appear on the tv from a still image overnight. It went away after a few minutes. What i am getting at is i think the tv can handle the settings that it came with from the factory.

Would a newer samsung or LG 4k LED be better for me? I get where movie mode can be nice in dark scenes though, i really do. If you have the lights all off and have a dark scene, the dynamic is going to show washed out black where movie mode will be very black. Are you telling me LED can't do that? I hear of everyone returning the LED because of this. And i really like plasma because to me, even if i do prefer dynamic mode, its just the brightest and most colorful tv out there compared to a LED or LCD. Someone help me here. Again , im not bias. Just ignorant

Another thing. Are you all saying that you leave it on movie mode all day long or just for movies? I would think dynamic mode is best for sports.

Last edited by Nearsighted; 12-16-2014 at 01:05 PM.
Nearsighted is offline  
post #14 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 01:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsskid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,946
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 186
Here lies the difference between accurate and preference. Most here strive for accuracy, whereby the image displayed is as close to that coming directly out of the studios, albeit within the capabilities of the display itself.

There is nothing wrong with having a preference, which you are conveying. Just don't expect anyone to be able to help you dial in your preference, because obviously preference is very individual.

If you like leaving the display in Dynamic mode, or with the sharpness setting dialed way up, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Just be aware, as QuiGonJosh eluded to, those settings leave your display more suceptible to image retention or worse image burn, so be very careful with static images, black bars and logos, and of course....above all else....enjoy your new tv.
AMartin56 and chunon like this.

ISF Calibrator
Samsung PN64F8500
Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD
Pioneer Kuro BDP-320
Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, as they tend to shrink over time.
dsskid is offline  
post #15 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Thanks Dsskid, So if i prefer to watch my shows with brightness up but can have an appreciation for the tv when watching movies with lots of blacks to go with movie mode, then there is no reason to be thinking of a newer LED 4k tv for around 1500-2000 right? Because at the end of the day i don't think LED is going to be any brighter, plus its not going to have the best blacks even when dynamic mode is on. Agreed? Plus plasma even when viewed with dynamic mode on , is kinda like LED with better motion rates. All in all i can see how this is still the tv for me. I guess when watching movie mode, it does make everything darker and hazier, but does make more to a real effect. Everyone has a preference i guess.
Nearsighted is offline  
post #16 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 01:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,914
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 168
The Full Array LED Local Dimming sets will give you the brightness you crave during the day, and the black levels you crave both day & night viewing. It will keep more accurate colors during the daytime viewing for you too. You can also kick on backlight scanning for nightime viewing (though I would keep it off during the day as it dims the set - personally I keep it off at night too).

The disadvantage is that you will have some black level variabiity and blooming. However the Sharp X-Gen paneled 60" M602i 1080p set diminishes blooming affects as it has good native black levels for LCD panels. The P602i gives you 4k and even more zones of dimming for reduced blooming.

I suspect that all things considered the Vizio M602i or P602i is a better overall set for you compared to the Samsung 60F8500. The P series have Top Notch Input Lag numbers for gaming as well.

The M series will output over 350 cd/m2 (with Backlight Scanning turned off) on a full white image and will do so without negative impact on color accuracy. It's most definitely brighter than the Samsung 60F8500.

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #17 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 02:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,842
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked: 1054
things to consider/explain

first off, most comments on here, and that i will make are done with the expectation that ACCURATE is our goal. movies are edited on displays with specific qualities, and we want to try to match those qualities so that we see what were 'supposed' to see. it's completely your right too change settings to your preference, but be aware that makes you part editor, as you are changing the content to what you think it should look like.

that being said...

what dynamic gives you better blacks
-dynamic mode crushes blacks and clips whites. black is supposed to be at a level of 16, and white at 235. the dynamic settings might change black to 19 or 20, and white to 230. what this does is remove some detail in the shadows, and the brightest parts of the screen(bad), but it also compensates for poor settings a bit(good). if your brightness is set too high, then instead of getting washed out blacks in movie mode, you still get inky blacks in dynamic. the easy fix for that is of course to set brightness correctly. but sometimes it's the content itself that's messed up, and in those cases, crushing blacks a bit can look better. it's still not the best solution, but i believe this is why black would look better in dynamic. and as far as the bright end goes. if we change 'white' from 235 to 230, then everything else gets a little brighter. our eyes tend to prefer bright over dim whenever doing quick comparisons. however, you are losing out all the info between 230-235, and again, changing the way the image looks from what the director intended.

the best solution to this is to set brightness correctly, and fix the gamma. fixing the gamma will allow details to be seen in the shadows without washing out the blacks completely. it can also improve the bright images in the same way.

as far as the sharpness goes, most ppl recognize a goal of 1:1 pixel mapping. if each pixel is represented correctly, then that's the 'sharpest' the image can look. increasing sharpness does not increase resolution, it alters the image to give the perception of strong lines around objects. the problem is that the processing is 'dumb'. it doesn't know which lines are supposed to be thick and defined and which ones aren't. and when it makes lines more defined, it adds halos and other artifacts that can be very distracting. i know it sounds counter-intuitive, but you actually get a lot more detail, especially in the 'finer details', when sharpness is low. i've posted pics of this many times before, but here's another look.

sharpness set low



details are still 'sharp', stuff in the background that's supposed to be out of focus is out of focus. stuff that's in focus is smooth, doesn't have any halos.

sharpness set too high



we can see haloing start to occur. in the close up of the windows of the building, we start to see discoloration between the windows, even though the building should be a uniform color. we start to lose depth in the picture as stuff in the background appears more in focus than it should be

sharpness set WAY too high(to exaggerate what you're looking for)



Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #18 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 1
You are JUST the guy i was hoping would chime in on this thread. Are there any other examples or threads that show pictures with contrast/ sharpness and show how it affects picture from Minute to extreme?
Nearsighted is offline  
post #19 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 04:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
dallows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
things to consider/explain
snip
Any time I try to calibrate sharpness using something like a blu-ray I cannot perceive a difference. How do you explain this?

I think the only time I noticed it was with my cable box(which I've since ditched cable) where having the sharpness too low resulted in a blurry channel guide which killed my eyes, so I had to adjust it to the point where it was "sharp" enough not to hurt looking at. My ST50 (waiting on the F8500 to arrive) is at 50 sharpness I think, maybe 20... I don't remember.
dallows is offline  
post #20 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 04:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallows View Post
Any time I try to calibrate sharpness using something like a blu-ray I cannot perceive a difference. How do you explain this?

I think the only time I noticed it was with my cable box(which I've since ditched cable) where having the sharpness too low resulted in a blurry channel guide which killed my eyes, so I had to adjust it to the point where it was "sharp" enough not to hurt looking at. My ST50 (waiting on the F8500 to arrive) is at 50 sharpness I think, maybe 20... I don't remember.
Cable and satellite compresses the HD signal so you need to raise the sharpness. Like putting lipstick on a pig. Sometimes, that's all you can do. I do notice a difference on blu ray. Using Spears and Munsil disc and calibrating sharpness, you can really see how it starts to mess up the test pattern if you go much above 10. Same holds true for OTA HD which is much less compressed compared to cable.
EscapeVelocity likes this.
wxman is online now  
post #21 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 04:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
QuiGonJosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Nearsighted, I'll take the F8500 off your hands if you don't like it.
QuiGonJosh is online now  
post #22 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 04:45 PM
Senior Member
 
shadowspawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearsighted View Post
Not saying this isnt the right tv for me but if im watching broadcast tv and reality shows, it seems to me that dynamic mode makes detail on the faces look more real, you can see sweat, wrinkles etc.... I would think dynamic mode is best for sports.
Seriously and helpfully speaking, you sound like a candidate for a Darbee accessory for your TV.

With a Darbee, you may well be able to get the advantages of an accurate picture mode, along with the details that you want.

I won't go into all the info here; just google "Darbee" or do a forum search here about it.

I have a Darbee, which I use with discretion and care so as to not over-process things, and I like it quite well. I think that you might.

As far as sports goes, I use Movie mode with no motion judder cancelling for everything except sports. Standard mode with motion judder cancelling turned on makes my family happier for sports.
EscapeVelocity likes this.
shadowspawn is offline  
post #23 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 05:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,914
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Cable and satellite compresses the HD signal so you need to raise the sharpness. Like putting lipstick on a pig. Sometimes, that's all you can do. I do notice a difference on blu ray. Using Spears and Munsil disc and calibrating sharpness, you can really see how it starts to mess up the test pattern if you go much above 10. Same holds true for OTA HD which is much less compressed compared to cable.
I like to use it with streaming at 480 SD.

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #24 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 05:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,914
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Shadowspawn took the words right out of my mouth.

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #25 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 05:37 PM
Senior Member
 
Josh128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked: 81
To the OP. If you are new to plasmas/HDTVs, I can understand how you might like the look of Dynamic-- at first. Sooner than later though, it will start to look gaudy/garish/fake to you. I experienced the same thing when I first brought home my F4500. Pretty soon though, I found that turning off the Eco Sensor stuff, using Standard Preset, and turning up the Cell Light to 16 looked WORLDS better than Dynamic.

A much cheaper option than calibration, that will probably produce a picture you will appreciate, would be to get the Disney WOW optimization Blu Ray or something like the Spears and Munsil or the Free AVSHD709 disk.

The most important things you can do to get a great picture are to :
Eliminate Black Crushing (clipping)
Eliminate White Crushing (clipping)
Eliminate Color Clipping
Properly set up Tint
Set Sharpness

You can do all this with one of these optimization disks.

Sharpness is more less a matter of personal taste. I prefer more Sharpness than most here, but it depends on the content (HD, SD, video, videogames).

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

Josh128 is offline  
post #26 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 06:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,842
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked: 1054
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallows View Post
Any time I try to calibrate sharpness using something like a blu-ray I cannot perceive a difference. How do you explain this?

I think the only time I noticed it was with my cable box(which I've since ditched cable) where having the sharpness too low resulted in a blurry channel guide which killed my eyes, so I had to adjust it to the point where it was "sharp" enough not to hurt looking at. My ST50 (waiting on the F8500 to arrive) is at 50 sharpness I think, maybe 20... I don't remember.
first, not all displays are equal. most digital display do well with sharpness at 0, but that's a guideline, not a rule. even the f8500 has different recommended values depending on picture mode. if you enable pc mode, the sharpness should be much higher, somewhere between 40-50 usually.

i can not however explain why you can't see a difference. it seems quite obvious to me, with test patterns and with content. i often use text as that seems to be the most revealing imo. but if you can't see a difference, might as well leave it low then, right?


i've got a bit of time to kill. i'll see if i can capture some better shots to show this with more real world examples. but for now, i should point out that the above shots are of bluray material, except of course the text.

EDIT: actually, flatpanels did a REALLY good job already here: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...&id=1328263571 i was looking for a list of movie scenes that would be useful to show the difference, and found that article instead

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One

Last edited by fierce_gt; 12-16-2014 at 06:49 PM.
fierce_gt is online now  
post #27 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 07:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Great article. Thanks for posting it.
AMartin56 is offline  
post #28 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 07:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,842
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked: 1054
for interest, i snapped a bunch of pics of various scenes/patterns with 'sharpness' at 0 on the left and 100 on the right. important note, this is my HTPC'S sharpness being adjusted, the f8500 has a sharpness of 0 at all times for this images. to be fair, there are times where the right side definitely looks better. for me, the issue is that at times the right side also looks terrible. the left side look 'good' at all times imo. and i also want to point out that this isn't a simply sharpness setting, the HTPC actually does a half decent job of enhancing detail without introducing halos and artifacts. while the left side is at 0, my preference is for a setting of around 10 normally.














Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #29 of 37 Old 12-16-2014, 09:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,914
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 168
How I learned to stop worrying and love the Sharpness at 0 setting.

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #30 of 37 Old 12-17-2014, 12:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,842
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked: 1054
^^ haha, yeah pretty much. set it at like 10 if you're really disappointed with it at 0, and then just leave it forget about it. stuff is 'out of focus' in movies all the time, I don't find it very jarring at all. but when stuff is over-sharpened, it stands out to me and takes me out the moment.


PS: I'm just looking at the pics I posted on my laptop right now, and they don't really show what I was seeing. not sure if its the camera or me loading the pics on facebook, but it seems to have 'dulled' the differences substantially. oh well... I tried

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off