Pioneer Kuro 111FD, to buy or not to buy? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #1 of 37 Old 05-21-2016, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer Kuro 111FD, to buy or not to buy?

Okay guys I have the chance to purchase a pioneer kuro elite pro 111fd for $500.

The set is mint! Barely used and includes speakers and all accessories.

I've always wanted a pioneer but could never afford it before.

My current TV is a Samsung 51F8500 but the power board just went to crap. Ordered a new one for $52 but was thinking of selling it and keeping the kuro. I don't need 3d or smart TV stuff since I have a xbox one.

So would you guys get a pioneer kuro elite today if given the chance?
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post #2 of 37 Old 05-21-2016, 08:00 PM
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Yeah, Im looking for a 5020FD or 111FD myself for around that price, too.

Though, Im keeping my Samsung 51F8500 and Panasonic 50ST60

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post #3 of 37 Old 05-21-2016, 08:27 PM
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It is a awesome TV, i use the 500M for Blu-ray movies...OLED, HDR, UHD etc.. can wait.
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post #4 of 37 Old 05-21-2016, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Check eBay and Craigslist. That's where I found this deal.

How does it compare to the Samsung 8500
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post #5 of 37 Old 05-21-2016, 10:18 PM
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I would buy an unused Pioneer Elite Pro-111FD if I could. Mine just died at only 7 yrs old. Given that they tend to suffer from an early death I would not buy a used one. Damn, I will miss my Kuro. The King is dead, long live the King.
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post #6 of 37 Old 05-21-2016, 10:26 PM
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I'm still caught between the idea of getting that used 111FD from that guy or saying screw it and going with OLED. I will know soon because I am supposed to get the 111FD Friday so I will be deciding very soon. I love the picture of my 5080 and to think that it's only an 8G KURO with 720p only really makes me wonder just how awesome the 111FD is. Plus I love the frame and design of KURO's more than any TV available. Pioneer designed the hell out of that thing, it looks so great. I really don't care for the frameless design (but could live with surely if it's an OLED) and every time I go to best buy I think almost all of the TV's just look bland cosmetically. Actually the only one I like out now is the Vizio T series. Also the Pioneers have much better speakers than all the OLED's except for the G6 and E6 which I will never be getting unless I win the lottery... I am not crazy about OLED's motion problems either, although when I am at Best Buy and I see those blacks and those extremely vivid (not in the bad, cartoonish kind of way either) colors I think I could live with the uninteresting cosmetic design and the less than perfect motion. I almost have enough money saved up for the 9100 too, I could probably get it in 2 months if I want.

KURO vs. OLED... the hardest decision of my life apparently.
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post #7 of 37 Old 05-22-2016, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
I'm still caught between the idea of getting that used 111FD from that guy or saying screw it and going with OLED. I will know soon because I am supposed to get the 111FD Friday so I will be deciding very soon. I love the picture of my 5080 and to think that it's only an 8G KURO with 720p only really makes me wonder just how awesome the 111FD is. Plus I love the frame and design of KURO's more than any TV available. Pioneer designed the hell out of that thing, it looks so great. I really don't care for the frameless design (but could live with surely if it's an OLED) and every time I go to best buy I think almost all of the TV's just look bland cosmetically. Actually the only one I like out now is the Vizio T series. Also the Pioneers have much better speakers than all the OLED's except for the G6 and E6 which I will never be getting unless I win the lottery... I am not crazy about OLED's motion problems either, although when I am at Best Buy and I see those blacks and those extremely vivid (not in the bad, cartoonish kind of way either) colors I think I could live with the uninteresting cosmetic design and the less than perfect motion. I almost have enough money saved up for the 9100 too, I could probably get it in 2 months if I want.

KURO vs. OLED... the hardest decision of my life apparently.
I just made my 5020 into an e-lite using the board modification (excellent seller on eBay, kcrownie, did it for $35) method, and while I do think it improved the PQ slightly, it simply still can't compare to my 9100 in a completely dark room environment. Edit: my 5020 had been twice calibrated for grayscale by dnice and had voltage tweaks by both dnice, Eddie (from the Kuro tweaking threads-very helpful gent), and more aggressive ones by myself.

Maybe it would have a better chance in bright environments now than before the mod, considering I have the potential to unlock ISF Day...but I doubt I'll be doing that, seeing as how it's going to be my backup, and not in a main room with a lot of lighting. Plus, it's got 25k+ hours and has started to buzz a little more recently so I'd rather keep it on power saver and in pure/movie/game modes which stay dim enough to not tax the tv too much (I hope).

The 9100 was $1275 on the most recent eBay sale. I'd snap one up before the 1080p oleds are all gone, especially considering the Kuro would only be a half step above your 8500 (which I would absolutely save and not sell if you can manage to salvage it for $50...plus, in selling, you should feel a moral obligation to tell the buyer about the previous failure which could affect the price)

I've seen a lot of panasonics, samsungs, and kuros, and while each are excellent in their own right (and the kuros the most so, all things considered), none can do what an Oled can. Just my opinion

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post #8 of 37 Old 05-22-2016, 10:03 AM
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Sorry, I was getting Jacinto and Vader mixed up..sorry guys. Just don't pay too much for a Kuro. I've loved mine dearly and still think it's a top performer. The value just isn't quite there with the failure rates and other considerations. Basically, don't buy one for nearly half what it would cost to buy a bigger, brighter, blacker, way more energy efficient (and cooler) oled for.
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post #9 of 37 Old 05-22-2016, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post
I just made my 5020 into an e-lite using the board modification (excellent seller on eBay, kcrownie, did it for $35) method, and while I do think it improved the PQ slightly, it simply still can't compare to my 9100 in a completely dark room environment. Edit: my 5020 had been twice calibrated for grayscale by dnice and had voltage tweaks by both dnice, Eddie (from the Kuro tweaking threads-very helpful gent), and more aggressive ones by myself.

Maybe it would have a better chance in bright environments now than before the mod, considering I have the potential to unlock ISF Day...but I doubt I'll be doing that, seeing as how it's going to be my backup, and not in a main room with a lot of lighting. Plus, it's got 25k+ hours and has started to buzz a little more recently so I'd rather keep it on power saver and in pure/movie/game modes which stay dim enough to not tax the tv too much (I hope).

The 9100 was $1275 on the most recent eBay sale. I'd snap one up before the 1080p oleds are all gone, especially considering the Kuro would only be a half step above your 8500 (which I would absolutely save and not sell if you can manage to salvage it for $50...plus, in selling, you should feel a moral obligation to tell the buyer about the previous failure which could affect the price)

I've seen a lot of panasonics, samsungs, and kuros, and while each are excellent in their own right (and the kuros the most so, all things considered), none can do what an Oled can. Just my opinion
I recently have gone to Best Buy a few times and looked at the 9100 they have (it's the only OLED my Best Buy played actually stuff on rather than demo crap, they play Age of Ultron). Initially I wasn't that impressed with anything but the blacks but 2 days ago I went back and looked longer at it and I really started to see it's potential beyond just blacks. The colors and in particular the blues really impressed me more than any LCD they have there. Then I thought to myself this thing would look even better at home in my room without all these overly bright BB lights and with optimal calibration. It would be nice to upgrade from 50 to 55 inch too. The curve doesn't even bother me, I literally didn't notice unless I looked (Samsungs curve on the other hand is horrible).

How do you feel about the motion on your 9100?
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post #10 of 37 Old 05-22-2016, 11:43 AM
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Yeah, I was just rewatchimg parts of the newest Star Wars and was blown away by the colors (particularly blues but greens too) even in ISF mode with the color toned down considerably (I like to keep my sets pretty desaturated for critical viewing).

The infinite depth of black and the extra brightness really is a game changer in both low apl scenes and in those where you see, for instance, the tiny bits of light from a star map reflecting off characters' faces and windows.

Motion hasn't been an issue. I sometimes use trumotion on the lowest setting (1 out of 10) for blu Ray but for anything else it's headache inducing for me. It does 24p playback *almost flawlessly. Unless I have my Kuro side-by-side to compare, it's not any less smooth. And even when it is, it's only in the most torture test-type scenes some review have pointed out.

I game a lot (fps) and motion blur hasn't been an issue at all, even in game mode labeled to PC (the way to get lowest input lag) where de-blur settings of trumotion aren't available.
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post #11 of 37 Old 05-22-2016, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Spleen View Post
I would buy an unused Pioneer Elite Pro-111FD if I could. Mine just died at only 7 yrs old. Given that they tend to suffer from an early death I would not buy a used one. Damn, I will miss my Kuro. The King is dead, long live the King.
I heard the Kuros were starting to fail in high numbers of late.

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I don't know if it's just the kuros because Panasonic/Samsung plasmas from the same year just don't get talked about as much (when's the last time someone mentioned a 850pz in the same sentence as Kuro? 2008, that's when)

I think the vast majority of plasmas are subject to many of the same factors/failure rates.

Mine has between 25-30k hours and is still going strong. *knocks on wood*
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I heard the Kuros were starting to fail in high numbers of late.
From whom?
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post #14 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 08:29 AM
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Check eBay and Craigslist. That's where I found this deal.

How does it compare to the Samsung 8500
No other PDP comes close to a Kuro, only the most recent OLED TV's surpass it.
Official Pioneer Kuro Pictures Thread.......
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post #15 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 08:31 AM
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I heard the Kuros were starting to fail in high numbers of late.
My Kuro's below are still going strong, bought them both new when they went on sale in their respective years.
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No other PDP comes close to a Kuro, only the most recent OLED TV's surpass it.
I'm pretty sure us ZT60 owners would disagree. Our blacks edge out the Kuro just barely but they do.

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I'm pretty sure us ZT60 owners would disagree. Our blacks edge out the Kuro just barely but they do.
The ZT60 was real good, not in the Kuro class, sorry, and the Panasonic was a newer PDP, considering the last Kuro was build in 2008 and the Panasonic ZT60 was 2013.

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The ZT60 was real good, not in the Kuro class, sorry, and the Panasonic was a newer PDP, considering the last Kuro was build in 2008 and the Panasonic ZT60 was 2013.
It was proven by CNET, Engadget, Digital Trends and many other reputable Electronic reviewers that the ZT60 finally edged out the Kuro. David Katz from CNET stated that it was the best performing tv that he ever tested. I can go on and on with quotes from other reputable reviewers to show that it's not just my personal opinion. The only Kuro that compared to the ZT60 was the 101FD or the KPM500M. Those two were the best Kuro's ever made. With that being said, I would be extremely satisfied with a 101FD or a ZT60. Can't go wrong with either of them. I chose the ZT60 though.

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It was proven by CNET, Engadget, Digital Trends and many other reputable Electronic reviewers that the ZT60 finally edged out the Kuro. David Katz from CNET stated that it was the best performing tv that he ever tested. I can go on and on with quotes from other reputable reviewers to show that it's not just my personal opinion. The only Kuro that compared to the ZT60 was the 101FD or the KPM500M. Those two were the best Kuro's ever made. With that being said, I would be extremely satisfied with a 101FD or a ZT60. Can't go wrong with either of them. I chose the ZT60 though.
Those "controlled" test where held by Panasonic, cough cough. And the Panasonic was a 5 year old newer PDP, seriously.
Panasonic ZT60 is Potential "Kuro Killer," Plasma Not Dead Yet
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Those "controlled" test where held by Panasonic, cough cough. And the Panasonic was a 5 year old newer PDP, seriously.
Panasonic ZT60 is Potential "Kuro Killer," Plasma Not Dead Yet
Good article but a lot of it backs up what I said..........the ZT60 has the slight edge. Yeah it took Panasonic a Hell of a lot longer to get there but they did. So the "controlled" test by Panasonic was also a conspiracy eh? Conspiracy theory....LOL! Not trying to ague as I said both of these are very beautiful TV's. We're almost like fighting over what is better a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. LOL! You just happen to think that your KURO is better and I think that my ZT60 is better.

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post #21 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Well i picked up the kuro 111fd and im in love with it. Cant believe a set this old looks this damn good. The blacks and the depth is unreal. My 8500 is an awrsome plasma but the kuro edges it in depth contrast and black levels. Even motion is more fluid.
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post #22 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacinto1023 View Post
Well i picked up the kuro 111fd and im in love with it. Cant believe a set this old looks this damn good. The blacks and the depth is unreal. My 8500 is an awrsome plasma but the kuro edges it in depth contrast and black levels. Even motion is more fluid.
Welcome to the club. Glad you are enjoying your PRO-111. I have a 111, 151, 5010 and a 4280. Wouldn't sell them unless I had to.
You will find some nice settings to experiment with in the Kuro settings threads. Enjoy!!

Ive got some stuff
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post #23 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 10:28 AM
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Good article but a lot of it backs up what I said..........the ZT60 has the slight edge. Yeah it took Panasonic a Hell of a lot longer to get there but they did. So the "controlled" test by Panasonic was also a conspiracy eh? Conspiracy theory....LOL! Not trying to ague as I said both of these are very beautiful TV's. We're almost like fighting over what is better a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. LOL! You just happen to think that your KURO is better and I think that my ZT60 is better.
Before black level rise, the 'regular' 9g kuros were .001 blacks, OUT OF THE BOX. Years later when comparisons were being made, any mll advantage the vt/zt60 enjoyed was likely due to the kuros aging.

.0012 is more the average for the pannys but .001 wasn't unheard of.

'Regular' 9gs could be voltages tweaked to .0005 with little artifacting (my 5020 is .0004 or less)

500m/101fd started at .0005 and went significantly lower

Those are the facts. Whether they really matter is the part that's up for debate but saying the zt/vt60 isn't in kuro class is more than a little hyperbolic
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Before black level rise, the 'regular' 9g kuros were .001 blacks, OUT OF THE BOX. Years later when comparisons were being made, any mll advantage the vt/zt60 enjoyed was likely due to the kuros aging.

.0012 is more the average for the pannys but .001 wasn't unheard of.

'Regular' 9gs could be voltages tweaked to .0005 with little artifacting (my 5020 is .0004 or less)

500m/101fd started at .0005 and went significantly lower

Those are the facts. Whether they really matter is the part that's up for debate but saying the zt/vt60 isn't in kuro class is more than a little hyperbolic
I hear ya.............at those numbers you probably can't detect the differences with the naked eye anyway. The ZT/VT 60's and the 9.5g Kuros are all in the same class in my opinion. It's just too bad that Pioneer never made any of the Kuro's bigger than 60".

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Those would've been some hot, heavy tvs. That's one thing Panasonic inarguably improved upon.

So glad my 55'' oled is as cool as a cucumber on these hot summer days. Doesn't mean I don't still enjoy my Kuro, just that I watch it before and after going to work out :joy:
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post #26 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacinto1023 View Post
Well i picked up the kuro 111fd and im in love with it. Cant believe a set this old looks this damn good. The blacks and the depth is unreal. My 8500 is an awrsome plasma but the kuro edges it in depth contrast and black levels. Even motion is more fluid.
Do you know how many hours are on the set? I might be picking one of these up friday but the one I am getting has around 20K hours on it. It's supposed to still have no red tint and be in perfect condition, and they guy seems like he's legit but you never know
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post #27 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you know how many hours are on the set? I might be picking one of these up friday but the one I am getting has around 20K hours on it. It's supposed to still have no red tint and be in perfect condition, and they guy seems like he's legit but you never know
The set I got had 9000 hours on it and had the red tint. In less than 10mins I tweaked the voltages and not only did the red tint and dancing pixels go away but the black level lowered.

It looks amazing. I put my newish 8500 Samsung for sale
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post #28 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 01:41 PM
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Is Red Tint inevitable with 9G KURO's? Is it something that only happens to some? Does anybody have a 111FD with nearly 20K hours that has never had red tint or any single sign of it? This guy swears it has no red tint and hasn't ever been reset. He said he would gladly let me see it before I buy it. I asked him if he could show me in a very dark room (I probably wont be able to go late at night, especially this time of year where it doesn't get late till past 8) and he said he could try...
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post #29 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 02:23 PM
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Is Red Tint inevitable with 9G KURO's? Is it something that only happens to some? Does anybody have a 111FD with nearly 20K hours that has never had red tint or any single sign of it? This guy swears it has no red tint and hasn't ever been reset. He said he would gladly let me see it before I buy it. I asked him if he could show me in a very dark room (I probably wont be able to go late at night, especially this time of year where it doesn't get late till past 8) and he said he could try...
I don't know the answers to those questions 100% but I doubt many 20k+ sets are completely clean. I'd make viewing it in a near total black environment a condition of the sale though.
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post #30 of 37 Old 05-23-2016, 04:55 PM
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There are actually quite a lot 9G Kuro's with red tint. Some say all will get it. There are also people with lots of hours who claim that they have no red tint. My 500M has close to 10.000 hours and has NO red tint.

When buying a 9G Kuro make shure that you can take a look at it in action in a dark room, preferably a clean source, blu-ray, movie scene with dark material.
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