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Best LCD TV To Transition To If You Can No Longer Have a Plasma TV

7K views 155 replies 35 participants last post by  chunon 
#1 · (Edited)
Now that our Plasmas are getting older and more and more people are for whatever reason no longer able to continue using a Plasma TV as their primary display (reasons such as catastrophic failure, lack of replacement parts, panel or screen getting damaged, needing a larger screen size and/or more modern features, UHD resolution, etc), i think it would be good to have a dedicated thread here for us Plasma owners who, for whatever reason, are transitioning to an LCD TV. For a lot of us, the time has come or will come soon enough.

An LG OLED TV would generally be a better upgrade from a Plasma, but they're expensive compared to LCD so this thread is specifically about LCD TV (commonly called LED TV to make them sound fancier, but it's still an LCD TV but with LED bulbs illuminating the screen instead of a CFL backlight like older LCDs had). Use the two terms interchangeably if you wish. The higher end models are backlit LED, but most others are Edgelit. Some brands/models do Edgelit better than others. My W800B is actually pretty good in this regard which i did not expect.

In the LCD TV world, having looked at and fiddled with the settings with various TV at stores and especially at the homes of friends/family/neighbors/coworkers/customers etc, i find that the Sonys have a much more natural looking image than LG or Samsung (which both look somewhat garish and cartoonish) and Sony generally has better colors. They seem to be closer to Plasma PQ than others i've experienced, but then again that's only a relative handful over the past few years. Lots of current UHD (so-called "4K") LCD TVs look pretty darn good. This year the better features and PQ are on the UHD models and the 1080p units have been relegated more to "entry-level" status. So even if you're sitting far enough away that the higher UHD resolution is not a factor, these models still have better colors and motion than the lower models so this year i'm only recommending UHD models if it's within one's budget.

Three of the biggest considerations when going from Plasma to LCD is (A) Black Level Performance, (B) Contrast Ratio, and (C) Viewing Angles from the sides. Plasma TVs do all three well, but in the LCD world this is no longer the case. There are basically two types of LCD Panel: VA and IPS. VA has better black levels and higher CR, but narrower viewing angles, while IPS has wider viewing angles but poorer black levels and CR. If one of these is more important than the other for your particular viewing environment, then it may be important to find out which brands/models have VA panels and which ones have IPS panels before digging any further.

I have always used Plamsas in my bright man room going back to 2005, but a few years ago i moved my 55ST60 to the den for dark room movie watching and replaced it with a Sony 55W800B LCD TV and was actually an overall improvement in anything other than full-on night-time dark room viewing (in which case the ST60's deeper blacks and higher contrast ratio come into play). Then ironically, the wife just couldn't get used to the larger size and eventually had me put the 46 inch G10 back in there (the den is HER domain) but since my 55W800B works better in my man room i decided to keep using that instead my 55ST60 (which i've stored away until i decide WTF to do with it). My LCD also maintains it's CR better in bright room viewing so that's another plus.

Another thing i that i found i like with LCD is the lack of ABL. ABL didn't really bother me on my Plasmas even though i saw it happen on bright scenes, but this does not happen on my LCD TV in the man room and i do find that it now bothers me when i see it on my Plasmsas (which i still have in the den and a few bedrooms). Not a big deal for most Plasma owners, but worth noting.

Another thing to consider is the screen's reflectivity. We're used to Plasma AR Filters and the last few years the mid-to-higher end models from Panasonic and the Samsung F8500 series had the Louver Filter, but with LCD TVs the vast majority of screens are either glossy and very reflective, or semi-gloss which is much less reflective - but is not quite matte like older and/or smaller LCD TVs were in previous years. As an example, my Sony W800B's semi-gloss screen is actually less mirror-like than my 55ST60 and 50GT50 (with Louver Filter) and 46G10 and 42PZ700 Plasmas (traditional AR Filter) so that was a nice surprise in my bright man room during the daytime, even with my blinds or solar shades down. Some people say a glossy/reflective screen isn't a problem since an LCD screen is brighter than a Plasma, but in any sort of scene that is dark or has dark areas those dark areas instantly become a black mirror. Not a problem so much when watching sports in the daytime, but is a big deal when watching dark movies or dark content in anything other than a dark room. The semi-gloss models are much better in this regard. This is important to me.

LCD/LED TVs have improved greatly in recent years but there are some issues and limitations that are just inherent of the technology such as viewing angles, black levels, blooming, flashlighting from the corners, screen uniformity, blotchiness, etc that we just didn't experience with Plasma. These issues exist to varying extents on various models so read up on this when considering specific models.

While there are lots of brands of LCD TV, personally i like Sony's the best and feel they're closer to Plasma PQ than all the other brands out there. They get good reviews.

So here's a good breakdown of the currently available Sony models:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony


While not perfect, that RTINGS site has lots of good info about the various brands/models such as viewing angles, black levels, screen reflectivity, panel types etc whcih can help narrow down some specific suitable models in this huge sea of LCD choices. You can glean a lot of useful LCD/LED related information from that site.


I know i'm stuck on Sony, but plenty of people in the LCD forum are very happy with their various Vizios and LGs and Samsungs. But for me, Sony seems to give the most Plasma-like performance. If my older 1080p 55W800B were to blow up, i'd definitely replace it with either a 55X850C or the slightly lower 55X810C UHD model (VA panel w/higher contrast ratio and better black levels). If wider viewing angles are important, consider the X900C or X850D series but their IPS panels don't have the better black levels and contrast ratio. My Custom Integrator customers who have traditionally used Panasonic Plasmas for their boardroom and large residential projects are now specifying Sony LCD TVs for pretty much the same reasons that i like them.

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#2 · (Edited)
I have three LCD's, two of them with matte screens, which is a BIG plus when it comes to day time viewing. However, limited viewing angles, poor motion rez, blooming and/or average black/contrast levels, would keep me from buying one for my HT room. The Sony's do seem to have the most analogue looking picture which makes them more plasma like, but if I could find a 55'' 1080p OLED for under 2 grand, that would be my choice over investing in any of the current UHD offerings with back-lite LED technology. My other option would be to buy an inexpensive 1080p FALD TV until prices for UHD HDR emmissive displays became more affordable. Hopefully, my 2013 PDP will give me a few more years of good service. ;)

Ian
 
#3 ·
1st Ian the eg9100 is currently a grand and a half to Randy unlike most here I love my IPS panel although the black luminous is lacking the brighter pic and wide angle for when I'm moving around my home. I also have a plasma that doesn't get used as much anymore after it was moved to the bedroom (I'm not a bedroom viewer). My siblings and I purchased a VA panel for my dad a few years back I'm sorry I abhor the color shifts.
 
#5 ·
Good thread, Randy....I'm trying to do some background reading, the OLED capacity is coming on slowly, when do you think Samsung and others will start upping capacity to drive down the pricing on 65"+ models ? :confused:

Finally...if you buy a top-of-the-line LCD do the differences vs. plasma JUMP OUT AT YOU or do you have to LOOK FOR THEM ?

That to me is a big difference. And even though I am a plasma fan, I think if you buy a top-notch LED LCD today that the shortfall vs. plasma is miniscule. For most of us (not me -- I have a Samsung 5300 from 1 year ago), we have plasmas from 2013 or earlier so buying an LCD/OLED from 2016 or later is going to be a big improvement just using newer tech.

The gap between plasma and LCD was ridiculous 10-12 years ago. It really narrowed about 4-5 years ago, even for the top-notch plasmas. Now that the best plasmas are kaput after the 2015 model year, it'll be easier for LCD/OLED to close the gap and surpass plasma in overall performance, if not in every little detail.
 
#6 · (Edited)
My Hitachi 1080p plasma from 2008 is still going strong. No plans on upgrading until it dies. To this day the picture is still beautiful. I have a 2013 Samsung 720p LED in my bedroom, and I gotta say the picture quality is quite nice, but it still can't touch my plasma. When the time comes I'll probably go with a 4K Samsung LED or OLED if affordable. I've always been impressed with Samsung's LED picture quality. To the OP I kind of find Sony LEDs to be more artificial looking, while Samsung LEDs are more natural looking. Of course this is my own personal opinion.


Sent from my AT&T iPhone 6S Plus using Tapatalk
 
#7 ·
#8 ·
I just bought a 2015 Samsung js9500 to replace my Samsung plasma of the same size. I have zero regrets.
You realy must get a FALD set though.
Its to bad samsung has stopped doing 3d in 2016. Unless everyone else stops doing 3d in the next 5 years, this will be my last samsung. I have to much money into 3d discs to pitch them, and the brightness of modern lcd make up for the active glasses. Best 3d next to a dual projector imax.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
#12 ·
it's seems that there is much more to it than that. my last lcd purchase, i tried 4 different sets, and ended up with a ccfl backlit unit because none of the more expensive led backlit units were 'watchable' under my viewing conditions(which is about 95% dark room).

the other factor is of course viewing conditions and user. there are plenty of things other ppl whine about that make me shrug my shoulders, and think of them as nit-pickers. this is the 'thing' that does that to me. here's the results of the js9500: http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/js9500/js9500-uniformity-large.jpg , which unfortunately puts it in the nearly unwatchable category FOR ME. still, it's a huge improvement over the d6300's i tried. i couldn't make the clouding go away on those even with my lights on!
 
#10 ·
I'm in the same boat, looking to replace my 2007 Pioneer PRO 150-FD. I may relegate it to my bedroom until it bites the dust. I'm seriously looking in the Samsung KS9000. IMO curved is not worth the extra $$$.
 
#14 ·
I tried 3 different mid-range LCD sets and returned every one of them for varying degrees of issues. Their dark room performance was dodgy at best. Too much light bleed on the Sony 4K set, too much clouding and uniformity problems on the Sharp 1080p set, and too many little niggling things with the Samsung 8500 series 4K LCD. Just couldnt make any of them work - not for almost $2500 bucks.

Each had some great features/characteristics. The Sony had nice colors & the Samsung actually had decent black levels. The Sharp was garbage and I returned it within an hour of opening the box. Overall, the lack of "movie" performance is what killed it for me. The Samsung viewing angles were atrocious too - great picture but do NOT move your head even an inch or the contrast would change. Drove me bonkers. The 3D on the Samsung was awesome - gotta admit it was fun.

But, for HALF the money my "lowly" Samsung PN64H5000 destroys them all in overall PQ. So, I tried this LCD thing and it just didnt work for me. I suppose that the highest-end LCDs with full array backlighting and all that may have fared better but the cost was prohibitive.

Thats my story. :)
 
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#15 ·
I really tried hard to give LCD/LED TVs a chance, but I just can't live with the weird motion. Doesn't look real, looks like that dreaded soap opera effect.

I currently own a Panasonic 65 inch VT series plasma which with the Pioneer Kuro and Panasonic ZT series is some of the best plasmas ever made and motion is perfect.

I'll be looking to upgrade to an LG OLED 65 inch like the E6 or G6 once prices drop a bit...
 
#17 ·
pretty sure motion on oleds is comparable to lcd...

i'm surprised you weren't able to defeat SOE. i've never seen an lcd that wasn't able to disable the FI, and while not making motion 'perfect', it at least makes it watchable

i do wonder if HFR will help with this. the FI is horrible, but a higher frame rate might help the 'judder' without making it look fake. still, 60fps on a plasma is about as perfect as i've ever seen
 
#16 ·
I'm in the same boat. I have never owned an LCD.

I don't know what I am going to do now that I want 4K HDR. :(
 
#18 ·
OLED motion has some similarities with LCD (sample and hold motion drawing technique being the main culprit), but you'll get the fastest response time of any tech. What this means in the real world as far as perception can't really be quantified and requires you to spend some time with it. With OLED, I don't miss the motion on the flagship plasmas I once had. The uniformity on the other hand still needs a little more work.
 
#19 ·
i should preface this by saying i've never found the motion performance on lcd's to be troublesome(not counting FI processing that i find unwatchable), but whereas i used to be able to pick out the lcd's from the plasmas in the store pretty easily, i find it extremely difficult to do that with oled. under the super bright lighting of the showroom, the oled's look like a good lcd to me. i mean, watching off axis sure helps figure it out, but in terms of motion i find it pretty tough
 
#20 ·
I guess I am just more pragmatic and have been through enough different display technologies that I can shift my, expectations. I see a little clouding on my set once in a while, and if all I watched where static white crosses on a black background with the FALD turned off that might bug me, but I dont. 😆
I find the number of times I do see a little fogging to be more than made up for by the pluses of my new 4k set.
Sharpness, even on 1080 and 720p, thanks to the much improved inter pixel spacing. The now pitch black widescreen bars. HDR. The ability to watch shows in the day. There is no comparison watching 3d, the extra brightness makes watching all my 3d discs new again. The very nice luminance fades you get with FALD vs the abrupt shut off you get with many plasmas at the end of any fade to black. Not having a huge heat source in my living room. And in the case of the Samsung, far better integration and operation with my receiver. The detail in dark areas are improved.

The pluses far outweigh the minuses imho.

I really do believe you need to live with one for a while and marvel at the pluses before you can say for sure the minuses are too hard to overcome.
 
#24 ·
yup, pros and cons. we just put value on different things, are bothered more/less by different things, and as a result feel differently about the quality of certain displays. nothing wrong with that though.


one day i'd like to give UHD an honest try. i'm not really sold on the resolution improvement(except for projectors), but the increased bit depth, perhaps HDR, WCG are things i think i need to test at home to appreciate. i still want to wait until sources are 'reasonable' and common around here though. until then, i'll just make sure anytime i have to replace a component it supports UHD so i'll be ready. for me it's more about being extremely satisfied with my current display than it is me being unimpressed with new options.

there's probably a lot of sentimental attachment to the plasmas we love as well. i mean, i still think back to my disappointment when i replaced a CRT RPTV with a cheap plasma and found it a noticeable downgrade in picture quality. despite some of the obvious drawbacks of CRT(i mean i don't think i would buy one today if i could) i still remember them fondly and think of all the things they did so well that plasma, or lcd really struggle with. not to mention i was trying to replace a $3000 CRT with a $1000 plasma, so it's not like it was a fair comparison
 
#22 ·
I'd grab the Vizio P-series and call it a day if our plasma died today. To be Honest, I hope it does.

Didn't think much about it as our 2008 5-series Samsung Plasma always seemed to have a great picture. Then, earlier in the year we got a 40" Vizio E-Series for the bedroom. IMHO it blows the Samsung out of the water in terms of picture quality. It's hard to describe but the picture is crisper, more vibrant, and just seems better. Blacks look good vs the speckled mess that the plasma provides. I've turned all the motion stuff off and it looks great.

Off axis viewing could be better but it's not an issue in the bedroom or even in our living room as most seating is dead on or less than 10 degrees off.
 
#23 ·
in all fairness, i had a samsung b540 plasma, and it was among the worst tv's i've ever had(that i didn't return immediately). if that was my frame of reference, i would completely agree that any good led could easily replace it. i bought a d630 lcd for my bedroom and was a little surprised to find out it's blacks were noticeably blacker than the b540 plasma. not as uniform, but close enough that i felt the overall picture was better. in fact, i had a few dynex lcd's put that b540 in its place.

when i got my f8500, i hooked up both tv's to the same signal for comparison purposes. the b540 was 'calibrated' and the f8500 was a factory preset at the time of these pics. unfortunately the pics are pretty bad, but the f8500 has way blacker blacks, brighter whites, and tons more detail in the shadows. it honestly made me mad to see how terrible the b540 was in comparison.


the f8500, st60, vt60, zt60, kuro(and probably a few older panasonics and 8-series samsungs) really were on a totally different level than the old 5-series plasmas, and i think it's those owners that are the ones struggling to find replacements. i mean, there are plenty of 'good' tv's on the market today. the questions is if there's any 'reference quality' tv's on the market
 
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#25 ·
I'm very happy with my Panasonic S60 Plasma which is located in a room with controlled lighting. BD and even streaming sources from Netflix, HBO GO and Starz Play look fantastic. Until OLED tech becomes more affordable and there is a greater abundance of HDR content, I have no interest in jumping on the UHD TV bandwagon.

Ian
 
#29 ·
Same here. I'm not tossing my current equipment, which not only includes my display, but AVR, Roku, and BD player for UHD HDR. The difference in quality isn't worth my time and investment. However, when it comes time to do so, I'm still sticking with an emissive display, regardless of the benefits of an UHD LCD with HDR.

Ian
 
#28 · (Edited)
OLED is the new reference. LCD managed a lone Pyrrhic victory in the recent UK shootout with sheer blinding brightness, but that has more to do with HDR being in its infancy than any shortcomings of OLED. For all the reasons that plasma was/is superior to most LCDs (all but the most advanced flagships in any case), OLED shares the same pedigree. Zero blacks and wide viewing angles with no blooming will never be something I can forego.
 
#44 ·
it's samsung, instead of making a better product, they will spend the money on advertising to convince the sheeple it's a better product.

honestly, i blame samsung for edgelit led and a big part of the blame for the death of plasma(if you think that's a stretch, it is, but imo they are the company most responsible for convincing customers that LED is superior to plasma)

i think somebody other than LG needs to make an oled before samsung will. they seem pretty adament in not making them, i can only imagine the profit margins aren't as good
 
#38 · (Edited)
I have a 5 year old 55 inch Panasonic Plasma. The picture quality is good. Sadly, the 55-inch was small. What I would do to go back in time and select the 60 or 65 instead.

LG OLEDs seemed like a no brainer based on reviews, but its seems in the OLED threads that there is uniformity issues there too? I can't imagine spending that much and being unhappy.

Looks like I will be waiting a bit longer.
 
#40 ·
That totally sucks. What's the uniformity issues look like on the OLED? Is it like the flash lighting or blooming effect that you get from the LCD/LED's?
 
#45 ·
from eg9100


you can compare them more here: http://ca.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/gray-uniformity-dirty-screen-effect-dse

it's not the 'black uniformity' that is the issue, but the grey uniformity. i haven't had the pleasure of an OLED at home, but from my experience with clouding/flashlighting and all the other tvs i had before that, i'm thinking i'm a lot more sensitive to black uniformity than grey or white uniformity.
 
#41 ·
No blooming or flashlighting per se'...one of them might have had a minimal amount of higher edge brightness at low luminance (5% and under) where the edges were brighter than the middle, but that one was obviously defective in that it came out of black severely unevenly. Vignetting is a bit more common, though much reduced this year. I believe the most common problem is lower luminance bands. You might see them on occasion in the form of DSE when panning across darkly lit uniform backgrounds. There's every chance you will get a TV where they are so minimal that they won't show up in content, but there is no guarantee of such. LG considers mine within specifications, which seems to qualify as an acknowledgement of reaching their technical limitations this year.
 
#42 ·
Yeah the lower luminance bands would definitely bother me. Which one would you recommend between the B6, C6 and E6?
 
#46 ·
That looks to be closer to full white, which is probably the second most challenging uniformity to get right. The gray uniformity I was referencing above could be otherwise described as near-black. :D OLED has true black, so of course you can't get better uniformity there but a surprisingly significant amount of dimly lit content hovers around 5% IRE. Pan a camera across a solid wall hovering in that luminance range, and it can show the nasties on WOLED. With a flagship plasma from Panasonic, Pioneer, or Samsung, this is something you can easily take for granted (I know that I did).
 
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