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post #31 of 87 Old 09-10-2017, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
there's plenty of ways to look at this...

one way is that you are able to replace a used, out of warranty d7000 with a significantly better, slightly newer f8500 AND get paid 1000bux to do it.


if you break it down, 2000 for an f8500 isn't awesome, but getting 3000 for a used d7000 is amazing! so whatever you do, you're starting off with a huge win imo. even if you go brand new oled, the insurance company is basically gifting you 2500 bux
Or you can spend 2000 on an OLED with warranty and return option.
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post #32 of 87 Old 09-10-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
make sure you view one in home before you're unable to return it. i tried 4 times before giving up. what looks great at the store looks unwatchable in my theater. it seems like most LED's just keep getting brighter and brighter, making the blacks APPEAR darker(better contrast), but when i get the set home, in a light controlled room, and calibrate the display, the same old issues still pop up, for me.

I second that.

Used to have a Pio KRP-500M (Had to sold it)... now my current TV is a Sony 55X900E. The great blacks you see on stores... not that great on a dim / totally dark room. Even with local dimming set to high.


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post #33 of 87 Old 09-11-2017, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
Or you can spend 2000 on an OLED with warranty and return option.
65" oled start at about 4grand here. 55" do occasionally go on clearance for 2k. i realize US markets are different, but i'm less familiar with them so i try not to assume. but as i mentioned, oled is still an option, and the fact there's a 3grand payout on a used d7000, he's starting off in a good spot, imo. yeah it sucks to HAVE to replace something you don't want to, but it's nice to get full value for an 'obsolete' product. if it weren't for plasma being discontinued, this would be a win-win situation for sure, as he would most likely be able to buy a newer version for the same or less money.


i'm not convinced that i NEED an oled yet, and will happily keep using the plasma(i know i enjoy it, i only THINK i'd enjoy an oled), but i do feel oled prices are the only ones that really matter in this discussion. as oled prices come down, i'll loosen the grip on my plasma

if my plasma died though, i would probably opt for a new oled. the used market here is really sparse though, so the chance of me getting any decent used plasma almost makes that decision for me.

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post #34 of 87 Old 09-11-2017, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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2000 would be for a refurbished unit. I totally understand not being ready to upgrade to OLED. On the other hand if you are buying a replacement unit it makes no sense to spend OLED money on a plasma.
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post #35 of 87 Old 09-11-2017, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Corrieri View Post
Here's the measurements: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/xbr65...1407223857.htm



And you have to put up with 1080p low resolution content on a big screen and shutter yourself in a room like a vampire. To each his own.

$500 is what they're worth today. Not a penny more.
I think I get now what your saying. You have an $8000 LCD from 2014 and you're saying that rather than buy a used Plasma one should look for a used one of these?
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post #36 of 87 Old 09-11-2017, 07:04 PM
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To each his own.
Exactly. Enjoy your LCD television.
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post #37 of 87 Old 09-11-2017, 07:32 PM
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Interesting article. OLED wins of couce but I've never seen an expert review or shootout from anybody that knows anything recommend an LCD as the best display available.
https://www.lifewire.com/oled-vs-plasma-3276234

"For many serious AV enthusiasts, LCD screen technology just doesn’t cut it. Its inability - using current technologies, anyway - to deliver truly localized lighting means it just can’t give film fans the contrast and black level depths their movie-loving habit craves. So much so that many AV fans are still using full HD plasma TVs, where each pixel can produce its own light, rather than upgrading to 4K UHD LCD TVs."
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post #38 of 87 Old 09-12-2017, 07:22 AM
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Plasma Sellers - Let's talk..

I wonder what my 1080p 50' Hitachi plasma would be worth? To this day it still works perfectly, and the picture is rock solid.


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post #39 of 87 Old 09-12-2017, 07:45 AM
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I always observed the plasma selling market in my area (europe), and things have changed 2017..


Tons of plasma tvs are sold but those are the older models.. No F8500, no VT60, older ones.. and those older 42 to 50 inch models you can get from 100 to 200 euros. Those are 2008 to 2011 models. Everything newer is very hard to get. There also quite a few broken plasma tvs on sale.. for 50 to 100 Euros. You think this is a joke.. But the sellers think, the spare parts are something worth..


I got a Panasonic S20 42 inch for 40 bucks. I bought it just because it was so cheap but..


..this led me to selling my 50 inch ST60 for 400 Euros because I liked the S20 that much. Which is not much, but I am happy that I could sell it, because as you said the buyers target group is very small..


The ST60 was already 4 years old.. if something brakes I have a 100% loss.. If this little S20 is broke, I lost 40$ and will hunt down another one..


and there was only one guy interested in buying, and he was an owner of an old panasonic plasma..


Right now is a buying market.. Hunt down a model and secure it for future if you want..


I would not sell a plasma.. I would keep it if you love plasma..
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post #40 of 87 Old 09-12-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
I wonder what my 1080p 50' Hitachi plasma would be worth? To this day it still works perfectly, and the picture is rock solid.


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What model? For reference, this spring I bought a 2007 Hitachi plasma, the last year that Hitachi made ALiS plasmas with their own panel, for about $100. It's 1080i and in pristine condition. If you have one of the 2008/2009 Hitachi 1080p displays, where if I remember correctly they used Panasonic glass, it might be worth $150-200. Maybe.

These things are more collector's items and a curiosity at this point.
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post #41 of 87 Old 09-12-2017, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Please be mindful of the classified ad rules as mentioned earlier in the thread.
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post #42 of 87 Old 09-13-2017, 05:34 AM
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Links to craigslist, talking about having a TV for sale are posts that will be deleted. Any links to TV's for sale will be deleted. Ebay, classifieds and criagslist links are always against forum rules.

If this continues, the next time we'll have to close the thread.

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post #43 of 87 Old 09-13-2017, 08:59 AM
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All right

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand, there's a local Samsung PN64F8500 that the seller is asking $1750 for. This is a perfect example of what the OP is referring to. The thing has been up for sale for 6 months, and the seller hasn't budged on price. It's not going to sell.

I think the last of the Panasonic/Samsung/Pioneer plasmas have aged really well, but you could make the argument that a good UHD LCD will get you most of the way there and do so under warranty. And OLED prices continue to drop. We may see 65" OLEDs available on Black Friday around $2k. So $1500-1750 for a 1080p plasma out of warranty is not desirable, at all.

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post #44 of 87 Old 09-13-2017, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
All right

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand, there's a local Samsung PN64F8500 that the seller is asking $1750 for. This is a perfect example of what the OP is referring to. The thing has been up for sale for 6 months, and the seller hasn't budged on price. It's not going to sell.

I think the last of the Panasonic/Samsung/Pioneer plasmas have aged really well, but you could make the argument that a good UHD LCD will get you most of the way there and do so under warranty. And OLED prices continue to drop. We may see 65" OLEDs available on Black Friday around $2k. So $1500-1750 for a 1080p plasma out of warranty is not desirable, at all.
i'm going to disagree with you slightly. for some people it's certainly true, and those people will see anything over 500bux for a used plasma as completely ridiculous. for other people, lcd is still not a viable option, at least not at the prices we're discussing here. for me it really comes down to oled pricing. if plasma production continued, i'd be laughing at these prices with the rest of you, but honestly, i'm struggling to suggest a better performing display for under $1750(after taxes). is a used plasma worse than a used oled? cause i don't see getting anything brand new for that price in a 65" display, with 'plasma-like' performance.

it's just a crappy time to need a new tv, and not be an lcd fan... i would never want to buy a used television personally. but the state of the market would make me consider it carefully, and weight my options for sure. a used 64f8500 for $1000 may not be what i end up buying, but i would probably make it the mark to beat.
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post #45 of 87 Old 09-13-2017, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone spending within the vicinity of $1750 is going to pony up the extra $250 for a near new $2000 OLED.
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post #46 of 87 Old 09-13-2017, 07:52 PM
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I have a LG OLED65E6P and a Panasonic TC-P65ZT60. I have the Plasma in the bonus room over the garage now and the OLED in our great room. I struggled with the decision to buy OLED because of the motion issues they have compared to the buttery smoothness of the plasma. I have to say that once I got the motion set to my satisfaction the good far out weighs the bad in OLED. I don't miss my Plasma. It's still enjoyable to watch but I don't think it really holds up well against the OLED sets of today. True 4K HDR media on the OLED, to me, is pretty incredible. Even Netflix Dolby Vision is pretty special to watch. I am starting on our lower level media room next week and I can't say I even considered moving the Panasonic down there. Im actually struggling with the desire for a 75" screen vs the unrivaled black level and contrast of a 65" OLED. $15,000 for a 77" OLED isn't in the budget.

Even with all of this I would not sell my Plasma and buy a cheap 4K LCD. I think that I would have to be upgrading to something like a Sony x900e or 930e to swap out my plasma. If I had to replace my Plasma I would buy a full warranty OLED before I paid $1k or more for 4 year old technology.
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post #47 of 87 Old 09-14-2017, 08:00 PM
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I have a LG OLED65E6P and a Panasonic TC-P65ZT60. I have the Plasma in the bonus room over the garage now and the OLED in our great room. I struggled with the decision to buy OLED because of the motion issues they have compared to the buttery smoothness of the plasma. I have to say that once I got the motion set to my satisfaction the good far out weighs the bad in OLED. I don't miss my Plasma. It's still enjoyable to watch but I don't think it really holds up well against the OLED sets of today. True 4K HDR media on the OLED, to me, is pretty incredible. Even Netflix Dolby Vision is pretty special to watch. I am starting on our lower level media room next week and I can't say I even considered moving the Panasonic down there. Im actually struggling with the desire for a 75" screen vs the unrivaled black level and contrast of a 65" OLED. $15,000 for a 77" OLED isn't in the budget.

Even with all of this I would not sell my Plasma and buy a cheap 4K LCD. I think that I would have to be upgrading to something like a Sony x900e or 930e to swap out my plasma. If I had to replace my Plasma I would buy a full warranty OLED before I paid $1k or more for 4 year old technology.
You have seen the best in world today in the OLED and the best Plasma ever made. You are in select company my friend.
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post #48 of 87 Old 09-15-2017, 04:15 AM
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Don't forget the upscaling advantage of 4k on large screens for HD content.

^^^ this is my worry. I require a 4K TV set with absolute tremendous upscaling as I continue to mostly watch 1080P content.

I read that really only a few manufacturers can pull this off (Sony for example). This is the biggest reason for being gun shy at pulling the 4K trigger. I do not want to "settle" for the upscaling picture quality.


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post #49 of 87 Old 09-15-2017, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^ this is my worry. I require a 4K TV set with absolute tremendous upscaling as I continue to mostly watch 1080P content.

I read that really only a few manufacturers can pull this off (Sony for example). This is the biggest reason for being gun shy at pulling the 4K trigger. I do not want to "settle" for the upscaling picture quality.


Kev
I hear the opposite. From all the reviews I've read upscaling is pretty much excellent across the board these days. After all, most content is still 1080p and you don't hear complaints from 4k TV owners about it.
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post #50 of 87 Old 09-16-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
Anyone spending within the vicinity of $1750 is going to pony up the extra $250 for a near new $2000 OLED.
are you able to get 65" for that price?

i definitely wouldn't buy a 'smaller' plasma for that price, for that exact reason. but the 65's here, plus taxes, it's more like double that. in which case, it's not an obvious decision anymore

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post #51 of 87 Old 09-16-2017, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by OK KO View Post
^^^ this is my worry. I require a 4K TV set with absolute tremendous upscaling as I continue to mostly watch 1080P content.

I read that really only a few manufacturers can pull this off (Sony for example). This is the biggest reason for being gun shy at pulling the 4K trigger. I do not want to "settle" for the upscaling picture quality.


Kev
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
I hear the opposite. From all the reviews I've read upscaling is pretty much excellent across the board these days. After all, most content is still 1080p and you don't hear complaints from 4k TV owners about it.
my understanding was that upscaling 1080p to 4k is pretty simple since 1 pixel just becomes 4. doing 720p to 1080p or 480p to 1080p was a lot more difficult since you ended up with 'half pixels' requiring the processing to extrapolate info that's not in the source. this is why some are SO much better than others. seems like a 'bad' 4k upscaler should just look the same as standard 1080p

if that was my only hang up, i wouldn't be hesitating. you gotta start somewhere, and i think it makes as much sense to start with the display as anywhere. if it's one of many, i can understand that.
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post #52 of 87 Old 09-17-2017, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
are you able to get 65" for that price?

i definitely wouldn't buy a 'smaller' plasma for that price, for that exact reason. but the 65's here, plus taxes, it's more like double that. in which case, it's not an obvious decision anymore
I have seen refurbished units for under $2k. The LG B7 65" brand new is listed for $2400 at the moment.
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post #53 of 87 Old 09-17-2017, 07:10 AM
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Well, the argument I'd make is this- no current or past LCD, not Sony's $5k Z9D, and certainly not Samsung's $4k edge-lit Q9F, can match these used plasma sets for black level. Pioneer had better black level in 2008 units, and Panasonic had better black level in their 2011+ lines... Samsung around 2012 I believe? 4K is ok, HDR is IMO more of a selling point, but for those of us who mostly do dark room/movie and game media consumption, the LCDs are a hard sell for their gray/inconsistent blacks. I'd rather have a Samsung 64F8500 or 65VT/ZT60 than any LCD.

At $1500, though, you can get a Vizio P-series, with HDR and 4K, and fairly good black level. With a return policy and warranty. So that's pretty crazy to me lol, paying that for a used display with guarantees.
I hate to quote an older post

But...I am pretty sure the Sony Z9D has a better black level than any of the Panasonic and Samsung plasma Tv's that were on the market
And then there is the brightness that allows it to watched in a window filled room without washing the picture out
To your point HDR is a HUGE selling point and the Tv's that can achieve enough brightness make quite a stunning display of it
The 65" Sony Z9 can actually be purchased for well below $5K

Honestly...there are left over FALD Samsung 65KS9800 sets left out there at quite a ridiculous price....even more ridiculous with price protection available from some credit cards

I replaced my Samsung 64F8500 with it and am completely satisfied....well...except for the viewing angles

I have the Vizio P series as well and the Samsung KS9800 outperforms it easily across all fronts

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post #54 of 87 Old 09-17-2017, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
All right

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand, there's a local Samsung PN64F8500 that the seller is asking $1750 for. This is a perfect example of what the OP is referring to. The thing has been up for sale for 6 months, and the seller hasn't budged on price. It's not going to sell.

I think the last of the Panasonic/Samsung/Pioneer plasmas have aged really well, but you could make the argument that a good UHD LCD will get you most of the way there and do so under warranty. And OLED prices continue to drop. We may see 65" OLEDs available on Black Friday around $2k. So $1500-1750 for a 1080p plasma out of warranty is not desirable, at all.
For $1750 I would think he would sitting on that for quite some time

I sold my 64f8500 about two months ago and it took me 3 months to do it
I started at $1000 and then came down to $850 which sold it and mine even had 4 months of extended warranty left on it

I got more low ball offers and tire kickers than you can even imagine...offers as low as $400..lol
Due to the commodity nature of TV's in today's world it drives things down even further

I finally got a buyer who owned a 60" that had died and I just happen to have the exact thing he was looking for
So..while you can sell a plasma I think your buyer's market is going to be narrow for it unless you just practically give it away

As for these guys asking $5K for ZT60's I see advertised

From what I see they are not actually selling them..or perhaps they will find that needle in a haystack type of buyer

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post #55 of 87 Old 09-17-2017, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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The question is not about the performance of Plasma against LED or OLED. It's about whether buyers are even looking at old plasmas. The answer across the board apart from a few of us is it doesn't enter their radar at all. The few of us holding out for plasma are not going to spend premium money on them

I guess if someone is not prepared to let go of their plasma for less than $1500, that is their prerogative. It won't sell but it's their choice. I'm looking forward to see how OLED prices will change with the holiday sales season.
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post #56 of 87 Old 09-17-2017, 11:22 AM
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What model? For reference, this spring I bought a 2007 Hitachi plasma, the last year that Hitachi made ALiS plasmas with their own panel, for about $100. It's 1080i and in pristine condition. If you have one of the 2008/2009 Hitachi 1080p displays, where if I remember correctly they used Panasonic glass, it might be worth $150-200. Maybe.

These things are more collector's items and a curiosity at this point.


P50S602

I bought it back in December 2008.


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post #57 of 87 Old 09-17-2017, 02:19 PM
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P50S602

I bought it back in December 2008.


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It's very difficult to say. I don't know that I've ever seen one of those in person. I think that was the year Hitachi switched to Panasonic 1080p glass rather than their own ALiS one? I'd say about the same as a 50" Panasonic from 2008, so maybe $150? Hitachi had better processing but they have a reputation for being unreliable. This year's blacks were much better but not Kuro-black.

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post #58 of 87 Old 09-17-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
I have seen refurbished units for under $2k. The LG B7 65" brand new is listed for $2400 at the moment.
why oh why is there SUCH a drastic price difference...

'on sale' for $4k :https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...10620658.aspx?

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post #59 of 87 Old 09-17-2017, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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You're probably not going to get the best prices at Best Buy. Mine is from Amazon
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post #60 of 87 Old 09-18-2017, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
I hate to quote an older post

But...I am pretty sure the Sony Z9D has a better black level than any of the Panasonic and Samsung plasma Tv's that were on the market
Nope. It doesn't. The only upgrade path from the best plasmas as far as black level is OLED.

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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
And then there is the brightness that allows it to watched in a window filled room without washing the picture out
To your point HDR is a HUGE selling point and the Tv's that can achieve enough brightness make quite a stunning display of it
The 65" Sony Z9 can actually be purchased for well below $5K
Agreed. HDR is big for me.

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Honestly...there are left over FALD Samsung 65KS9800 sets left out there at quite a ridiculous price....even more ridiculous with price protection available from some credit cards

I replaced my Samsung 64F8500 with it and am completely satisfied....well...except for the viewing angles

I have the Vizio P series as well and the Samsung KS9800 outperforms it easily across all fronts
It should outperform it, as its MSRP was 3x as much. I don't know anything about the pricing or availability of those sets but I'd say that, if you could get a KS9800 under $2k, that it would be an excellent option, and goes to my point that there's no way someone is going to pay $1k+ for a 4-8 year old plasma.

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I finally got a buyer who owned a 60" that had died and I just happen to have the exact thing he was looking for
So..while you can sell a plasma I think your buyer's market is going to be narrow for it unless you just practically give it away
Yeah, I think this is accurate. These displays have depreciated quite a bit.

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