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post #631 of 1376 Old 12-23-2005, 06:32 AM
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I'm about to set my parents up with a TH-37PX50U. Their STB's options for output include 720p, 1080i, or Native.

Is it the concensus that Panny's generally will do the best job of scaling inside the set? (In which case, I would set the STB to "Native" output.)

Or should I set the STB to 720p (which is the closest approximation to the Panny's resolution)?

Has anyone actually tried different settings? Is there any visible difference, or is this all theoretical?!
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post #632 of 1376 Old 12-23-2005, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jrn56 View Post

.... I am now leaning toward the TH-427PHD8UK when they become available in January or February....
John

do you mean a th-42phd8uk ?? if so they have been out for awhile now.
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post #633 of 1376 Old 12-23-2005, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

Not exactly correct. With the Comcast cable box (and I assume most others), you can choose what is called a "480i override setting" when setting up the box.

This can be set to "off"; "480i", "480p" or "stretch". If set to off, you will see all 4 x 3 content with side bars (no stretch capability on some TVs) -- essentially all channels are seen as 1080i. If set to 480i, it passes through the 480i content, and you can use the aspect control ON THE TV to stretch (i.e, no bars). With 480p, same thing, you can stretch ON THE TV. If set to "stretch", all channels are seen as 1080i, but then the cable box does the stretching for the analog channels, and you won't be able to use the stretch modes on your TV.

So it is easily handled by using either the 480i, 480p or "stretch" settings in the cable box.

When viewing actual high definition content, there is no need to stretch, as it is wide screen already.....

well, i'll just add that 1080i does usually come in as 16:9 but that does not mean the content is 16:9. Cablevision takes alot of the 4:3 non-hd channels and upconverts them to 1080i to another channel #, but since the source was in 4:3 the picture is viewed with sidebars..... kinda cheesy to be called a "HD" channel....

IMHO, any channel called "HD" has to be sourced in HD, none of this conversion crud....!!
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post #634 of 1376 Old 12-23-2005, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Denon_Kid View Post

do you mean a th-42phd8uk ?? if so they have been out for awhile now.

Yes, I meant the th-42phd8uk . I knew they were out but I was referring to the online stores being out of stock.

Thanks!
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post #635 of 1376 Old 12-23-2005, 02:32 PM
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I just recently got my 3750u, but when watching movies there was no discerning difference between the blacks. For instance in a night scene the whole area besides the lighted area was just pure blackness and there wasnt anything you can see, but with my 34xbr960 i can see everything. Is it because of flat panels poor black levels (which I bought the panasonic for because it's suppose to be one of the best) or is it just not tuned properly. If it's the latter how can I fix it? Please help guys I have a point to prove!
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post #636 of 1376 Old 12-23-2005, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jrn56 View Post

I never thought buying a TV set would be so tramatic. My journey started out in November by purchasing a 42" Pannasonic Ed set from a B&M store with a 30 day return policy. After 28 days of enjoying this set (coming from a 27" CRT) I got cold feet and returned it. Then without a TV for a couple weeks I found the Panasonic TH-37PX50U at a good price and have been watching this for 3 weeks and really like it also . And all this time I have been reading this forum about rave reviews, disappointments, floating blacks, green push, vibrations, etc. and my head is spinning. I am sure many of you have been through this. I am now leaning toward the TH-427PHD8UK when they become available in January or February. I have a one more week to decide about the 37" but I believe the 42" will serve me better at a viewing distances of 10-13'. So here are my final questions.

1). Does anyone feel guilty about returning plasmas to B&M stores after watching them for a few weeks? I am on my second one from the same store.

2). Do those of you who have already pulled the trigger and have the commercial versions of the 42" HD panasonic plasmas (8th gen) have any regrets? Are any of the mentioned problems like floating blacks a show stopper? Would you buy the same set today?

3) Would the decision to buy a 37" ED set for $1200-1300 and wait and see how the technolgy unfolds in 2006. I will need a second Plasma next year anyway for a family room that will be completed in my basement.

Thanks for all the help here on AVS. My wife is no help in the decision since everthing she watches meets her reuirements. She focuses more on theprice then the PQ. :-)


John

I sound very similar to you. I just returned my second rear projection to the same store within 30 days and purchases a 50 inch plasma over the internet. The first set Sammy DLP was damaged by the delivery people, but it gave me a week to test it out while they tried to get another in stock. I soon found that the flaws in this set bothered me quite a bit. I was then convinced on the SXRD (amazing contrast), but after three weeks of watching it, I just couldn't get used to the silk screen effect (I'm particular senstive to it). That's what return policies are for.

I would have purchased the plasma (HP's PL5000N - same as Panny 50px500U) from the original store, but they couldn't get that set - like everybody. I don't feel guilt because the salesman was emphatic that I would prefer the SXRD (1080p) over any plasma (720p). I didn't. I finally got over my burn-in fear after trying two sets and just decided not to worry about it. In fact, to all those folks saying to turn down brightness and contrast for the first XXX hours - I don't know how you put up with such a dull looking picture on your gorgeous new set. Seriously, there are so many reports of people abusing their 8th gen Panny plasma intentionally and unintentionally with no burn-in side effects, that its just not worth worrying about unless maybe you play major games all the time.

Now that I've have the equivalent of the 50px500u for four days, I'm very happy. The picture is stunning. The only thing that bothers me is there is no advanced color cutoff adjustments. The Oppo player's green push is pretty bad on my set over HDMI (not component) and since there is no green adjustment, I'll have to look for a different player (Panny S97 probably).

All the other effects that people mention don't bother me a bit. I tried sooo hard to see macroblock enhance with the Oppo on various scenes mentioned on these boards and couldn't see anything. Ignorance is bliss sometimes.

My only lingering shadow of regret is that I'm making this purchase a bit too early instead of waiting for 2006 when the 1080p plasmas will be available. My consolation is that most content won't be that high and 1080i looks good enough on a 50" at 10 feet. In four years, I'll probably buy a different set anyway.

Hope this helps.
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post #637 of 1376 Old 12-23-2005, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by zmansbr View Post

I sound very similar to you. I just returned my second rear projection to the same store within 30 days and purchases a 50 inch plasma over the internet. The first set Sammy DLP was damaged by the delivery people, but it gave me a week to test it out while they tried to get another in stock. I soon found that the flaws in this set bothered me quite a bit. I was then convinced on the SXRD (amazing contrast), but after three weeks of watching it, I just couldn't get used to the silk screen effect (I'm particular senstive to it). That's what return policies are for.

I would have purchased the plasma (HP's PL5000N - same as Panny 50px500U) from the original store, but they couldn't get that set - like everybody. I don't feel guilt because the salesman was emphatic that I would prefer the SXRD (1080p) over any plasma (720p). I didn't. I finally got over my burn-in fear after trying two sets and just decided not to worry about it. In fact, to all those folks saying to turn down brightness and contrast for the first XXX hours - I don't know how you put up with such a dull looking picture on your gorgeous new set. Seriously, there are so many reports of people abusing their 8th gen Panny plasma intentionally and unintentionally with no burn-in side effects, that its just not worth worrying about unless maybe you play major games all the time.

Now that I've have the equivalent of the 50px500u for four days, I'm very happy. The picture is stunning. The only thing that bothers me is there is no advanced color cutoff adjustments. The Oppo player's green push is pretty bad on my set over HDMI (not component) and since there is no green adjustment, I'll have to look for a different player (Panny S97 probably).

All the other effects that people mention don't bother me a bit. I tried sooo hard to see macroblock enhance with the Oppo on various scenes mentioned on these boards and couldn't see anything. Ignorance is bliss sometimes.

My only lingering shadow of regret is that I'm making this purchase a bit too early instead of waiting for 2006 when the 1080p plasmas will be available. My consolation is that most content won't be that high and 1080i looks good enough on a 50" at 10 feet. In four years, I'll probably buy a different set anyway.

Hope this helps.

how do you mean wait for 1080p plasma's?? my th-42phd8uk specs say it supports 1080p.

from the panasonic website
1080/60i, 1080/50i, 1080/24p, 1080/24sf, 1080/25p, 1080/30p, 720/60p, 720/50p, 480/60p, 480/60i signal compatibility
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post #638 of 1376 Old 12-23-2005, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Phaid View Post

I would say though, that based on the viewing distance you've described, you might be happier with a 42" EDTV. They're not that much more expensive than the 37".

The MSRP of the Panny 42" ED is $500 less than the 37" HD.
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post #639 of 1376 Old 12-24-2005, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jrn56 View Post

I never thought buying a TV set would be so tramatic. My journey started out in November by purchasing a 42" Pannasonic Ed set from a B&M store with a 30 day return policy. After 28 days of enjoying this set (coming from a 27" CRT) I got cold feet and returned it. Then without a TV for a couple weeks I found the Panasonic TH-37PX50U at a good price and have been watching this for 3 weeks and really like it also . And all this time I have been reading this forum about rave reviews, disappointments, floating blacks, green push, vibrations, etc. and my head is spinning. I am sure many of you have been through this. I am now leaning toward the TH-427PHD8UK when they become available in January or February. I have a one more week to decide about the 37" but I believe the 42" will serve me better at a viewing distances of 10-13'. So here are my final questions.

1). Does anyone feel guilty about returning plasmas to B&M stores after watching them for a few weeks? I am on my second one from the same store.

2). Do those of you who have already pulled the trigger and have the commercial versions of the 42" HD panasonic plasmas (8th gen) have any regrets? Are any of the mentioned problems like floating blacks a show stopper? Would you buy the same set today?

3) Would the decision to buy a 37" ED set for $1200-1300 and wait and see how the technolgy unfolds in 2006. I will need a second Plasma next year anyway for a family room that will be completed in my basement.

Thanks for all the help here on AVS. My wife is no help in the decision since everthing she watches meets her reuirements. She focuses more on theprice then the PQ. :-)


John

One thing to note. The difference in price between 42 and 50 inch sets of the same brand is relatively small. There is really no reason to not get a 50 inch set.

I have the Panny 50px50u -- my neighbor has the 42px50u. He is kicking himself over not getting the 50 inch. It is a HUGE difference in viewable image and perceived size -- for a relatively modest price increase. In fact, he literally called himself an "idiot" for not buying the 50 inch after seeing my set.

Basically you are talking $800.00 or so, for a huge size differential. If you are already spending $2,800. -- wha'ts another $800.00?

I highly recommend the 50 inch. Particularly if you plan on being over 10 feet away.

While your wife may be concerned about the ultimate price, you get much more for your money at the 50 inch size (it is really the sweet spot).


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post #640 of 1376 Old 12-24-2005, 05:45 AM
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I agree with Caesar1 - get the 50 inch. Its worth the extra dollars particularly if you are 10+ feet away.
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post #641 of 1376 Old 12-24-2005, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

One thing to note. The difference in price between 42 and 50 inch sets of the same brand is relatively small. There is really no reason to not get a 50 inch set.

I have the Panny 50px50u -- my neighbor has the 42px50u. He is kicking himself over not getting the 50 inch. It is a HUGE difference in viewable image and perceived size -- for a relatively modest price increase. In fact, he literally called himself an "idiot" for not buying the 50 inch after seeing my set.

Basically you are talking $800.00 or so, for a huge size differential. If you are already spending $2,800. -- wha'ts another $800.00?

I highly recommend the 50 inch. Particularly if you plan on being over 10 feet away.

While your wife may be concerned about the ultimate price, you get much more for your money at the 50 inch size (it is really the sweet spot).

Our room does have some limitations as far as the furniture and the placement of the TV but I will take a look at the 50" plasma's dimensions. Always something else to ponder.

Thanks for the replies and Happy Holidays !
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post #642 of 1376 Old 12-24-2005, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

One thing to note. The difference in price between 42 and 50 inch sets of the same brand is relatively small. There is really no reason to not get a 50 inch set.

I have the Panny 50px50u -- my neighbor has the 42px50u. He is kicking himself over not getting the 50 inch. It is a HUGE difference in viewable image and perceived size -- for a relatively modest price increase. In fact, he literally called himself an "idiot" for not buying the 50 inch after seeing my set.

Basically you are talking $800.00 or so, for a huge size differential. If you are already spending $2,800. -- wha'ts another $800.00?

I highly recommend the 50 inch. Particularly if you plan on being over 10 feet away.

While your wife may be concerned about the ultimate price, you get much more for your money at the 50 inch size (it is really the sweet spot).

I agree. I got the 42PHD6UY 18 months ago. I love the display. However I really wish I had gotten the 50" even though the one I got was $4200 then. The 50" would have been $5000 and that crossed some psychological barrier for my wife.

bill
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post #643 of 1376 Old 12-24-2005, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jrn56 View Post

Our room does have some limitations as far as the furniture and the placement of the TV but I will take a look at the 50" plasma's dimensions. Always something else to ponder.

Thanks for the replies and Happy Holidays !

50px50u:

Width 49.5 in
Depth 3.8 in
Height 32 in
Weight 99.2 lbs

42px50u:

Width 42 in
Depth 3.8 in
Height 27.6 in
Weight 76.1 lbs

So you only need 7.5 inches more in width.


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post #644 of 1376 Old 12-24-2005, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by billt1111 View Post

I agree. I got the 42PHD6UY 18 months ago. I love the display. However I really wish I had gotten the 50" even though the one I got was $4200 then. The 50" would have been $5000 and that crossed some psychological barrier for my wife.


I "use" my wife all the time as an excuse in negotiations in those circumstances. I tell the salesmen, my wife won't let me buy it if the price is $5,000.00 or over; isn't there something you can do? Usually they'll move it down to like $4,998.00 or something like that.

I found the "wife excuse" to be a great negotiating tactic. Even when I make it up and she really doesn't care what I pay.


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post #645 of 1376 Old 12-24-2005, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

I "use" my wife all the time as an excuse in negotiations in those circumstances. I tell the salesmen, my wife won't let me buy it if the price is $5,000.00 or over; isn't there something you can do? Usually they'll move it down to like $4,998.00 or something like that.

I found the "wife excuse" to be a great negotiating tactic. Even when I make it up and she really doesn't care what I pay.

I think my wife is tired of me spending so much time on AVS and talking about Plasmas that she will just say buy whatever you want eventually.

I do want to save a little of my spending allowance for some fishing toys next summer.
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post #646 of 1376 Old 12-25-2005, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jrn56 View Post

I think my wife is tired of me spending so much time on AVS and talking about Plasmas that she will just say buy whatever you want eventually.

I do want to save a little of my spending allowance for some fishing toys next summer.

IMHO, if your coming from a 25/32/37" tube than even a 37" 16:9 lcd or plasma will seem alot better. buy for your room dimensions and seating.... i'm currently at about 10ft from a 42"plasma and it seems "close"...
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post #647 of 1376 Old 12-26-2005, 07:22 AM
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The January 2006 issue of PC Magazine says that the Panasonic TH-42PX50U is not a "high-definition device in the truest sense" because it's native resolution is 1024X768 and "it doesn't have enough pixels to draw a 1280X720 HDTV image".

As a satisfied owner of a Panasonic TH-42PX50U, please help me understand this criticism.
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post #648 of 1376 Old 12-26-2005, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by aprest View Post

The January 2006 issue of PC Magazine says that the Panasonic TH-42PX50U is not a "high-definition device in the truest sense" because it's native resolution is 1024X768 and "it doesn't have enough pixels to draw a 1280X720 HDTV image".

As a satisfied owner of a Panasonic TH-42PX50U, please help me understand this criticism.

that's because the broadcasting standard for HD in 1080 format requires a canvas size larger than 1024. 1024 sets either crop their canvas (chops a tad off of each side, usually content that is ok to crop off), or it down-converts 1080 to 1024 (i hope it's the 1st).

the flat panel folks are using "HD" as a marketing phrase as opposed to a technical one. when they say "HD" they mean it can accept HD signals, but they dont clearly say how accurate they can re-produce the image....

does this help?

DK
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post #649 of 1376 Old 12-26-2005, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by aprest View Post

The January 2006 issue of PC Magazine says that the Panasonic TH-42PX50U is not a "high-definition device in the truest sense" because it's native resolution is 1024X768 and "it doesn't have enough pixels to draw a 1280X720 HDTV image".

As a satisfied owner of a Panasonic TH-42PX50U, please help me understand this criticism.

It's just as the article states. The TH-42PX50U is a fixed-pixel display, and has 1024 pixels horizontal resolution and 768 pixels vertical resolution. When you send it a signal - be it 480p, 720p, or 1080i - the TV has to scale this image to fit its screen. So in the case of a 720p signal, it has to scale 1280 pixels into 1024, and stretch 720 into 768.

Does this make any real difference? Possibly if you're viewing a perfect HD feed sitting a foot away from the screen. But at real viewing distances, and given that most HD feeds are so compressed by the cable/satellite company that they already have all sorts of macroblocking and posterization in them, the fact that the TV has to scale the image a little to fit is not going to make any perceptible difference. The advantages of the image quality plasma brings over other HD television types more than make up for any difference in actual screen resolution -- I'd definitely rather watch a HD feed on my TH-42PX50U than on a DLP set with true 720p resolution.
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post #650 of 1376 Old 12-26-2005, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Phaid View Post

It's just as the article states. The TH-42PX50U is a fixed-pixel display, and has 1024 pixels horizontal resolution and 768 pixels vertical resolution. When you send it a signal - be it 480p, 720p, or 1080i - the TV has to scale this image to fit its screen. So in the case of a 720p signal, it has to scale 1280 pixels into 1024, and stretch 720 into 768.

Does this make any real difference? Possibly if you're viewing a perfect HD feed sitting a foot away from the screen. But at real viewing distances, and given that most HD feeds are so compressed by the cable/satellite company that they already have all sorts of macroblocking and posterization in them, the fact that the TV has to scale the image a little to fit is not going to make any perceptible difference. The advantages of the image quality plasma brings over other HD television types more than make up for any difference in actual screen resolution -- I'd definitely rather watch a HD feed on my TH-42PX50U than on a DLP set with true 720p resolution.

if i'm not mistaken, 1080p/720p/576p/480p (or i, whatever) are all "horizontal" scan resolutions, they measure the vertical lines from left-to-right (or vice-versa).

so, a native 720p on a screen that has native 1024x768 should be viewed with blocking on either side. when a panel that supports 1080 receives anything less the panel gives the user opions, such as "normal", "full", "justify", or "zoom".

in my case (th-42phd8uk) i choose the "full" mode, and with anything less than 1080 the panel stretches across the whole image to fill the 1024 pixels wide, which causes images to be/look "fatter" than they really are. in "justify" my panel stretches the sides of the source so that the center remains the same, but items on the edges get severely stretched to fill 1024 pixels wide. i dont use the "zoom" modes. the "full" mode is the least annoying of stretching, so thats what i use.....

well, this is what i can make of all the #'s shoved in our faces..........

DK
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post #651 of 1376 Old 12-26-2005, 02:42 PM
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if i'm not mistaken, 1080p/720p/576p/480p (or i, whatever) are all "horizontal" scan resolutions, they measure the vertical lines from left-to-right (or vice-versa).

You are mistaken.

1080i, 720p, 480p, etc, measure the vertical resolution. The number of horizontal lines from top to bottom. Since 1080i is a 16:9 mode, that means that to fully display it you need a 1920x1080 pixel display; to fully display 720p you need 1280x720 pixels.

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so, a native 720p on a screen that has native 1024x768 should be viewed with blocking on either side. when a panel that supports 1080 receives anything less the panel gives the user opions, such as "normal", "full", "justify", or "zoom".

No. The display we are talking about (Panasonic TH-42PX50U) is a 1024x768 display with a 16:9 screen aspect ratio. Even though 1024x768 is a 4:3 ratio in terms of number of columns to rows, the pixels themselves are wider than they are tall, so that the overall screen dimensions maintain a 16:9 aspect ratio.

720p on a screen that has a native resolution of 1024x768 will simply be scaled to that display size - stretched to 768 rows and scaled to 1024 columns. Likewise, 1080p content will be scaled down to 768 rows and 1024 columns.

The reason the PC magazine article claims (with some justification) that the Panasonic is not a "true HD resolution" set, is that to truly display all of the information in a 720p signal, you need a display with 1280 columns and 720 rows. The Panasonic only has 1024 columns, even though it has 768 rows, so it necessarily loses some information when it scales the image. It obviously loses even more information when it scales a 1080i image.
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post #652 of 1376 Old 12-26-2005, 04:11 PM
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Phaid,

Well stated and informative. I have the industrial monitor version of the same display in question, a 42PHD6UY. While everything you said I previously understood, for some reason on this display 1080i HD programming looks MUCH better than 720p, even though as you state the display "obviously loses even more information when it scales to a 1080i image". For this reason CBS HD sporting events always look better (sharper, more vibrant, better blacks) than ESPN HD. I am not sure I understand the dynamics of why this is.

bill
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post #653 of 1376 Old 12-26-2005, 09:05 PM
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Phaid,

Well stated and informative. I have the industrial monitor version of the same display in question, a 42PHD6UY. While everything you said I previously understood, for some reason on this display 1080i HD programming looks MUCH better than 720p, even though as you state the display "obviously loses even more information when it scales to a 1080i image". For this reason CBS HD sporting events always look better (sharper, more vibrant, better blacks) than ESPN HD. I am not sure I understand the dynamics of why this is.

Thanks. You're right, and unfortunately there is a reason for it:

According to this review of the TH-42PX500U at Home Theater magazine, the measurable resolution (that is, the number of lines that can be visually distinguished in a displayed image) is lower in 720p than either 480p or 1080i on these sets when using an external input. The scaler on these sets evidently is optimized for 1080 and 480 line feeds, and doesn't do a good job with 720p input.

I tried this with my Oppo upconverting player on HDMI, and sure enough, this was definitely noticeable. The display was softer when I set the Oppo to display 720p than in 480p. 1080i on the other hand was sharper than 480p.

I have not observed this with HD broadcasts, but I feed my cable directly into the TV so it is using its onboard tuner for that. For whatever reason, the tuner doesn't seem to have this problem.

The previous year's model Panasonics did not accept a 720p external input at all. Reviews I have seen of last year's models tended to be critical of this, so it's possible that Panasonic just added it as an afterthought his year.
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post #654 of 1376 Old 12-26-2005, 11:35 PM
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I just recently got my 3750u, but when watching movies there was no discerning difference between the blacks. For instance in a night scene the whole area besides the lighted area was just pure blackness and there wasnt anything you can see, but with my 34xbr960 i can see everything. Is it because of flat panels poor black levels (which I bought the panasonic for because it's suppose to be one of the best) or is it just not tuned properly. If it's the latter how can I fix it? Please help guys I have a point to prove!

I hate to keep nagging but if anyone can answere this for me it would be great. I also wanted to say HAPPY HOLIDAYS! to everyone on the avsforums!
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post #655 of 1376 Old 12-27-2005, 05:41 AM
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You are mistaken.

1080i, 720p, 480p, etc, measure the vertical resolution. The number of horizontal lines from top to bottom. Since 1080i is a 16:9 mode, that means that to fully display it you need a 1920x1080 pixel display; to fully display 720p you need 1280x720 pixels.


No. The display we are talking about (Panasonic TH-42PX50U) is a 1024x768 display with a 16:9 screen aspect ratio. Even though 1024x768 is a 4:3 ratio in terms of number of columns to rows, the pixels themselves are wider than they are tall, so that the overall screen dimensions maintain a 16:9 aspect ratio.

720p on a screen that has a native resolution of 1024x768 will simply be scaled to that display size - stretched to 768 rows and scaled to 1024 columns. Likewise, 1080p content will be scaled down to 768 rows and 1024 columns.

The reason the PC magazine article claims (with some justification) that the Panasonic is not a "true HD resolution" set, is that to truly display all of the information in a 720p signal, you need a display with 1280 columns and 720 rows. The Panasonic only has 1024 columns, even though it has 768 rows, so it necessarily loses some information when it scales the image. It obviously loses even more information when it scales a 1080i image.

that's very interesting.... thanks for clarifying.

what exactly does a 1024x768 panel do with the extra 312 horizontal lines of a 1080 source?

so in essence, a 1024x768 panel is best suited for 720 source since the panel only has to deal with ("fill in") a difference of 48 lines..?

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post #656 of 1376 Old 12-27-2005, 05:46 AM
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so in essence, a 1024x768 panel is best suited for 720 source since the panel only has to deal with ("fill in") a difference of 48 lines..?
DK

I agree. That's what I was expecting when I bought my 1024x768 display. However in practice the 1080i programming looks best.

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post #657 of 1376 Old 12-27-2005, 05:59 AM
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I agree. That's what I was expecting when I bought my 1024x768 display. However in practice the 1080i programming looks best.

and "ahhh", after looking around just now i noticed a difference between plasma vs. lcd technologies. lcd's seem to have bigger native resolutions than plasma sets.

i can only assume that the scaling engines in the panels do ok with 1080i since they really deal with 540x2 (1080i is 540 done twice), so each painting of the screen (one sweep from top-to-bottom) leaves the panel 228 extra lines to do with what it wants during each of 2 paintings of a single interlaced frame.....

i guess my next question is, the specs for a th-42phd8uk says it supports a 1080p source, but the panel only has 768 horizontal lines of resolution. i'm gonna assume the panel's engine must also interlace a 1080p source....??

i too also think 1080i looks better than 720p, but that is expected. apparently 720p will do better with action scenes. i have not yet been able to test/view this difference.

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post #658 of 1376 Old 12-27-2005, 06:09 AM
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i also think 1080i looks better than 720p, but that is expected. apparently 720p will do better with action scenes. i have not yet been able to test/view this difference.

DK

I have heard and read the same thing many times. However where 1080i looks best on my plasma is during sporting events, particularly football, which is counterintuitive.

I have no idea what the Panny does with the extra 228 lines over 540 on a 1080i frame. The picture certainly does not looked stretched or fabricated in any way.

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post #659 of 1376 Old 12-27-2005, 07:11 AM
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... I have no idea what the Panny does with the extra 228 lines over 540 on a 1080i frame. The picture certainly does not looked stretched or fabricated in any way.

since i dont have detailed knowledge of the panny engine, i'm gonna assume it backfills the extra lines with info from the opposite half of the interleave. so in essence the engine could do the following:

[FRAME 1, 1st sweep]
paint all 540 odd lines from 1st half of interleave + "steal" 228 even lines from the 2nd half of the interleave data.

[FRAME 1, 2nd sweep]
paint all 540 even lines from 2nd half of interleave + "steal" (or repaint) 228 odd lines from 1st half of the interleave data.

this allows the panel to backfill, but this certainly does not explain what happens to 312 lines of resolution from the 1080 source which cannot physically be displayed on the panel....

this assumes the panel can cache some of the frame data. if the panel cannot cache some data then my hypothesis is the vertical scan rates of 1080i are fast enough that our eye cannot see the missing 228 lines during the interlace painting of a single frame. i'm pretty certain that in such a case, viewing the panel from a video camera with correct fps, one would be able to see the missing 228 lines as a horizontal bar (228 lines thick) moving vertically across the panel....

however, i guess "resolution" can be misunderstood. check out this page and look at the definition of "resolution" and note the chart. they seem to define "resolution" in terms of vertical lines (measures horizontal, from left-to-right). so if HD's "resolution" is only 960, then a 1024x768 panel is just fine. http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/showthread.php?t=1143
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