Official Pioneer 4360/5060/Elite Experiences, Set-up, Questions & Pictures Thread!!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Nope. Really did eval the 6Gen today. But I'm under an avalanche of work (partly because of taking time off to eval the Pioneer ). Will try and get back later today/tonight.

Whatever the outcome of the review just make me a special one saying how great the new Pio's are that way I feel vindicated for not getting the 5050 and waiting on these. If they suck I may jump off my balcony, course my house is only one level and i have no balcony so it won't hurt.
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post #92 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by frenchmr View Post

I bought the PDP-5051 in the Best Buy clearance deal. It has 2 dead pixel that are towards the center of the viewing area, Best Buy said they would exchange it, but they don't have the PDP-5051 in stock anymore. They should be getting the PDP-5061 soon so they said if I get the extended warranty, I can get a replacement to the new PDP-5061 when it comes in.

This may be questionable behavior. I'm not fully familiar with BB's operation but this sounds a bit like a ploy to force you to buy the warranty. Now, if you want the warranty anyway then it doesn't matter, take their offer. If you don't want the warranty though you should ask why you have to get it in order to do the exchange. If it's so you can do an exchange after 30 days then ask, "So with the warranty I can exchange my new Pioneer after 30 days if I change my mind?" I guarantee they'll say no, which leads you back to "Why do I have to get the warranty then if it's not for post-30-day exchanges?"

If it were me, I'd just return the current set within the 30 day mark and then buy the new one when it comes in. Of course, if you're getting the new one at a cheaper price with the exchange than you would with just buying it then you have to factor that in. It may be worth going along with this ploy if it means a better deal for you in the long run...especially if you wanted the warranty anyway.
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post #93 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 01:54 PM
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i had three BB employees as housemates for a while in college, so i think i can explain this one...

the standard replacement plan without buying the warranty will only cover replacement with exactly the same item, or an item of equivalent value. That removes the 5061 as a replacement option.

The add on warranty allows for replacement with equivalent item, regardless of increased value, as long as the original item is no longer stocked. i have known of several employees who buy items with the extended warranty and use it like a trade up scam when improved models come out and BB stops stocking the old one. Totally unethical, but as employees they can push it through.

In your case though, it would be legit. There is a problem with your display, and if you want to replace it with the 61, that would require the purchase of the add on warranty.

I've never worked there myself, i had a lot better job than that, but I know of these methods i describe being used on more than one occasion.
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post #94 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MaliciousBraham View Post

i had three BB employees as housemates for a while in college, so i think i can explain this one...

the standard replacement plan without buying the warranty will only cover replacement with exactly the same item, or an item of equivalent value. That removes the 5061 as a replacement option.

The add on warranty allows for replacement with equivalent item, regardless of increased value, as long as the original item is no longer stocked. i have known of several employees who buy items with the extended warranty and use it like a trade up scam when improved models come out and BB stops stocking the old one. Totally unethical, but as employees they can push it through.

In your case though, it would be legit. There is a problem with your display, and if you want to replace it with the 61, that would require the purchase of the add on warranty.

I've never worked there myself, i had a lot better job than that, but I know of these methods i describe being used on more than one occasion.

I could be wrong but isn't their warranty a service plan, meaning that if there is something wrong with your TV (which first of all has to be covered by the warranty...a couple dead pixels may or may not technically be covered) they first try to fix it and if it can't be fixed then you get a replacement.
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post #95 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 02:28 PM
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I sit here tappin my foot waiting on the Harkness report
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post #96 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 02:38 PM
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i believe you are right, but on some of those items, they skip the "fix" process altogther if they know the issue cannot be repaired without a new panel. In my opinion if they say the dead/stuck pixels distract from your viewing experience, there is no reason for them not to just instantly replace it, because they know stuck pixels cannot be fixed by a technitian. Since the 51 is no longer stocked, the 61 is the new equivalent model. If I were the one trying to get this fixed (buyer, not employee), I would just get everything confirmed all the way up to the store manager if necessary before buying the warranty... But even if something goes wrong you can still return both the product, and the warranty if it is still inside 30 days.

I have personal vendettas against BB and do not buy anything there myself unless I know they are selling it below cost. If they have something on sale, I price match it at Circuit City.

Part of this is because I wholly believe BB is an employee oriented company, not a customer oriented one. I have seen first hand and heard second hand of so many abuses of policy and unethical situations that I just refuse to support them. Even if it sometimes means I have to pay a little more somewhere else. CC is probably just as bad, but at least I dont know about their abuses. I know about BB's so I dont support them.

But 9 times out of 10, if the employee tells you he can do the switch, he can. If he's not the brightest bulb in the store, he will probably go check with the manager before telling you. If he's the shot bulb in the store, he'll tell you he can, then tell you later you can't. Just get a clear idea of what will happen via what they intend to do, and if you're comfortable with it, go for it.
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post #97 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 02:44 PM
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oh, and I know this is totally off topic, but the latest issue I'm PO-ed with at BB is that they imported the UK edition of Battlestar Galactica Season 1 DVD and marketed it as if there wouldnt be a USA release, and of course, they had exclusive import rights to the UK edition.

Now there is a USA release of Season1 upcoming (this week) that has over 12 hours of extras, which were not with the UK edition. Not to mention it is coming out $8 cheaper than the UK edition did. That Pisses Me OFF!!
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post #98 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 03:37 PM
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MODS NOTE:

Most of you guys are doing a good job with the "PRICING RULES" and it is appreciated.

For the rest of you guys.........

DO NOT TALK ABOUT PRICING, WHOS GOT THE BETTER DEAL, ETC.

Asking who has it in stock is fine (but no pricing talk).

Your post will be removed with no hesitation!!!!!!

Thanks.

Dave

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post #99 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 03:54 PM
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cheridave,

Thanks for the reminder but does this only apply for Pioneer threads? The reason I ask is because on most of the Panasonic threads, pricematches, what vendor dropped their price, etc. is running wilder than the AIDS epidemic in Africa. I know you may want examples...so...

Official New Panny thread: 42PD50, PX50, PX500

CC and the Panasonic TH-37PX50U order problem..... What gives??


I think it is only fair that the moderators pose the same rules to all threads. it just looks a little biased.

BTW, are you going to get a 6G Pioneer
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post #100 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 03:56 PM
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Randy Tomlinson aka RH in Canada we are patiently waiting, pls also include comparisons to 8th Gen Pannies and let us know where you saw the 6th Gen Pio, Bay Bloor ? Oh and if not too much could you swing by the Sony Store at Yorkdale and demo the SXRD XBR50 that is on display. After all that I can maybe finally make a decision at least until the 65 Panny arrives in 1080p.
Seriously on Randy T. read his latest in Sound and Vision he waxes effusively about the Sony CRT XBR 960 (seriously !). For PDP fans he also demos the Hitachi 55 latest model.

Cheers,
Trunorth.
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post #101 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

cheridave,

Thanks for the reminder but does this only apply for Pioneer threads? The reason I ask is because on most of the Panasonic threads, pricematches, what vendor dropped their price, etc. is running wilder than the AIDS epidemic in Africa. I know you may want examples...so...

Official New Panny thread: 42PD50, PX50, PX500

CC and the Panasonic TH-37PX50U order problem..... What gives??


I think it is only fair that the moderators pose the same rules to all threads. it just looks a little biased.

BTW, are you going to get a 6G Pioneer

Yes, you are correct about the rules applied equally. I try and do that, but I don't read every thread and post. I have also been traveling a lot lately and as a result of that I sometimes miss two to four days of postings.

I will go and review the threads posted.

The 6G has been on my list (PDP-1130) and I have been waiting for the reviews to come in, Rich H. is highly regarded here and I guaranty that if he gives it a positive review then I will fore sure go and seek one out for my self.

Dave

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post #102 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 04:15 PM
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I'm also waiting on his review. I think he is making us wait because it is a very positive review (he likes to see grown men jump up and down like kids in a candy store).
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post #103 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Nope. Really did eval the 6Gen today. But I'm under an avalanche of work (partly because of taking time off to eval the Pioneer ). Will try and get back later today/tonight.

I'm assuming you saw them at Bay Bloor. I work just on the other side of Queen's Park, so I'm going to try and swing by at lunch tomorrow and see if I can lay my eyeballs on the new sets.

As for the emerging debate re "are Pio's blacks really all that black", perhaps someone can get some IRE or nit measurements rather than debate contrast ratios and maximum lumens.

As for judder testing, all I need to do at the store is tune in on the Rogers HD test channel (501) and there's plenty o' juddery material to check out. They can also toss in any LOTR DVD and I can quickly find several scenes that exhibit judder on my 59Avi / 1110HD set-up. If I'm really lucky, they might have the latest Pio flagship DVD player, but that's a topic for a thread in a different forum...

Ross
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post #104 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MaliciousBraham View Post


I have personal vendettas against BB and do not buy anything there myself unless I know they are selling it below cost. If they have something on sale, I price match it at Circuit City.


Apparently you've either forgotten, or are too new to the scene, how CC tried to jam Divx down all our throats (the pay per view DVD, not the codec).

I'm not saying BB doesn't have their problems (cause they do) but supporting CC is just as bad IMO. I haven't set foot in a CC in nearly a decade and don't plan on it anytime soon.

Patiently (or impatiently ) waiting Rich's review.
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post #105 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaliciousBraham View Post

i had three BB employees as housemates for a while in college, so i think i can explain this one...

the standard replacement plan without buying the warranty will only cover replacement with exactly the same item, or an item of equivalent value. That removes the 5061 as a replacement option.

The add on warranty allows for replacement with equivalent item, regardless of increased value, as long as the original item is no longer stocked. i have known of several employees who buy items with the extended warranty and use it like a trade up scam when improved models come out and BB stops stocking the old one. Totally unethical, but as employees they can push it through.

In your case though, it would be legit. There is a problem with your display, and if you want to replace it with the 61, that would require the purchase of the add on warranty.

I've never worked there myself, i had a lot better job than that, but I know of these methods i describe being used on more than one occasion.


They actually said they would replace my TV with the new model if it was in stock. Because they don't have the 5061s in or the 5050s in stock they said that I could do a full return and go with another TV, like a Panasonic 50", but I really like my Pioneer set. The reason I have to get the extended warranty is because they think the new models won't come in for another week or two and my 30 day exchange window ends in a week.

What I'm planning on doing is waiting until later this week and then seeing if they have the new models in. If so, then I should be able to exchange it for the 5061. If not, then I probably will go with the extended warranty (not that an extended warranty is a bad thing to have anyway).

Also, they did send a technician out to my house since it is within the 30 day warranty period and the tech said that there was nothing they could do so I would have to get it exchanged. I was surprised that they would send a tech out within the 30 day window, but apparently that is part of their program.
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post #106 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 05:58 PM
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Sounds like a win-win situation to me. You got to pay the price of the 5051, but might end up with the newer 5061 set. Wish I had thought of that! Oh, that's right, I did. I just couldn't find any 5051's left to buy!
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post #107 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross in Toronto View Post

I'm assuming you saw them at Bay Bloor. I work just on the other side of Queen's Park, so I'm going to try and swing by at lunch tomorrow and see if I can lay my eyeballs on the new sets.
Ross


Ross,

No, I saw it at Brentview Electronics. Bay Bloor still doesn't have any firm date for getting the new Pioneers (probably end of month or beginning oct.)

I had phoned Brentview today to see when they'd be getting the Pioneers in and they salesman said "in a couple of weeks...but I happen to have one here now, which we are demoing today, and it's being taken away in a couple hours."

Picture Rich in his office chair disappearing in a puff of smoke, chair left spinning.

Arrrgh, I'm still at work. Well, maybe I'll take a break and just whip it out.

(Er...my report, that is....)
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post #108 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 06:44 PM
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Consider it a smoke break. Come on Rich, stop teasing us
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post #109 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 07:16 PM
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I viewed a 4361 at BB (Lexington & 86th, NYC) and all the usual caveats apply. A Panny px50 was nearby and a Sony LCD was right next and my sense was that the Pio was too dark and I noticed some motion artifacts (SDE) during a high-motion commerical. Colors looked good & blacks looked black but I couldnt help but think the Panny was just a bit better. Perhaps some adjustments would help as the image was so dark as to lose detail and was generaly annoying in a claustrophic sorta way. And i wondered if the black improvements were achieved at the expense of overall brightness. From a physcial perspective the unit looks great.
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post #110 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 07:52 PM
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I went by BB today to see the new 5061 they had just put out on display. It was an amazing picture. I was impressed with it. I spent so much time adjusting it and setting it up that the rep at BB offered me a job, no joke.

He told me they were hirering and he thought they could use someone with some experience with Plasmas. I did not have the heart to tell him that I had never owned one in my life and all I knew I had learned in these forums since July of this year.

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post #111 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:05 PM
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eelton,

Something I forgot, the 5061 that was put out on display today at BB had a stuck pixel too.

Funny how several people have mentioned that there was a stuck pixel. I guess it is just coincidence, and will not pan out as a problem associated with them.

Take Care,

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post #112 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

Well, I spend almost 30 minutes watching a PDP-5061HD at Best Buy (Long Island City) with a HD loop.

And It's sitting in the back which is Very Dim with no direct light to it.

All I can say is wow. Very impressive !!! Some scenes were VERY VERY BLACK to my eyes.

Just as Good as the Panasonic IMO. No kidding !!! At least with HD sources.

Wow.

Did it seem to have the same old pio pop with bright material?

Thanks,
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post #113 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:08 PM
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Quote:



"are Pio's blacks really all that black"...

Well, I spent almost 30 minutes watching a PDP-5061HD at Best Buy (Long Island City) with a HD loop.

And It's sitting in the back which is Very Dim with no direct light to it.

All I can say is wow. Very impressive !!! Some scenes were VERY VERY BLACK.

Just as Good as the Panasonic IMO. No kidding !!! At least with HD sources.



sorry, deleted the message by mistake.

.
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post #114 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:16 PM
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Woodrow, the picture was kinda dark. I didn't bother asking for the remote since there was this sales guy that really wanted to sell me the 5061HD ( I understand It's his job but... what a P.I.T.A. Guy ) so I had no chance to check the settings. Hopefully Pioneer didn't sacrifice much the brightness to achieve lower black levels.


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post #115 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

Well, I spend almost 30 minutes watching a PDP-5061HD at Best Buy (Long Island City) with a HD loop.

And It's sitting in the back which is Very Dim with no direct light to it.

All I can say is wow. Very impressive !!! Some scenes were VERY VERY BLACK to my eyes.

Just as Good as the Panasonic IMO. No kidding !!! At least with HD sources.

The one I was looking at BB also had the Samsung, LG, and Sony Plasmas around it, and Blacks were there on the Pio. They had just moved the 50U to an end cap, Panny rented the space and wanted it there. So I did not have it to compare to on the 50" size. Now they did have the 4361 next to the 42" Panny and I think the Pio had a better picture all around.

I was spent a lot of time with the BB rep and we were standing about 3 feet from the 5061. We let the HD Loop run from that distance, and with the good clean signal they were running, from that distance, you could not see any anomalies. I had marked off the 12 feet, which is where I was going to be look at it from home, and I just kept stepping forward, each time I could come in another step, and another step, and the picture kept holding. The only thing I did not do was get them to put up a non HD Signal. I wish I had thought of that while I was there.

Take Care,

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post #116 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

sorry, deleted the message by mistake.

You had me doing a double take. I was like, WTF???? LOL

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post #117 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:28 PM
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OK people here tis. Sorry if it's rambling but I'm at work and have no time to tighten it up.


Like I mentioned in my previous post, I found out a local store had the new 50 Pioneer Elite Pro 1130 (new 6th Gen) on display for a few hours today. So I zoomed past my house, grabbed my trusty test DVDs and off I went.

And sure enough, in a stroke of luck, they had the new model set-up right below the previous (5gen) 50 Elite model, both running from the same DVD player and Hi-Def box.
Perfect for a comparison.

First off, the new display looks very nice. It's amazing what shaving off a few inches from the bezel did to the apparent size. Next to the 5th Gen model, you might mistake the new model for a 43 display. I much prefer the smaller, more discrete bezel, and it still set's off the image very nicely.

The new model was indeed being fed by its external media box.

Both displays were being fed by a fairly pricy Rotel DVD player, via component inputs (the split feed appeared fine - no additions or subtractions to the image quality that I could detect). It's too bad I couldn't see them with a digital connection, but they both seemed to be performing great so I'm sure I saw an accurate account of their image.

So the salesman turns them on at the same time and.and.well.are you sure this is the new model?

The image of the 5th and 6th gen panels looked so similar they were almost identical. I kept looking at the high-def being played and for the life of me couldn't tell the difference. Then I quickly said, Lets calibrate a little and see some DVD scenes. When the signal to the displays was nixed I did notice the screen of the new model appeared a bit darker.

In goes The Hulk DVD. First we tried setting both units to the Cinema (or was it movie) mode. Unfortunately it appeared the different software between the old and new model made this an imperfect comparison - the brightness/contrast values were different.
The guys in the store went into the Standardpicture mode on both displays, and did a re-set. Better, but again needed tweaking. So I took some scenes with a good range of shadow detail and tweaked both sets. I took each down to where they just displayed deepest black, with the least noise, and observed what the tweaking did for shadow detail in each display. I got them looking much the same.

We turned off the lights in the room, but there was a large window at the far end letting light in, so I'd rate the viewing conditions as dim lighting, but certainly not home-theater dark.

But what about the new gen black levels?

Yup. Darker for sure. Panasonic dark? I wish I could say for sure, but if not the black levels certainly seemed close. I'd hoped to get home to re-check my Panny again but alas

I'm not sure the black levels are quite as dark as the Panasonic, but I may be entirely wrong if I ever get them side-by-side. I'd put them in the ball park of Panasonic,/ the Sony Qualia RPTV and perhaps the Samsung plasmas.

What about shadow detail vs the 5th gen panel? Well, I played around with both sets and did not see that the new model offered any more shadow detail. That is, once I got the 6gen panel just into displaying its deepest black levels, just like the 5gen panel, both panels displayed almost precisely the same amount of shadow detail. Certainly I could lift the brightness of the 6Gen to get some more shadow detail, but of course I could do just the same with the 5th Gen and see the same things. The only difference is that it seemed I could play around a bit more, lifting the black levels a bit on the 6th gen with a little less noise appearing as I did so. But it seems to me I'd want to have the levels set to achieve the deepest blacks possible from the display anyway, soit's a toss-up for shadow detail. Both are excellent.

And especially in the 6th gen model, the lack of noise within dark and shadowed areas is
Wonderful - definitely better performance in terms of noise suppression than what I've seen from the Panasonic models (although I haven't thoroughly tested the latest Panny 50 inchers).

So the new panel does as good, smooth shadow detail as you can find in a plasma. (Although still bettered, I think, by something like the Sony Qualia or some other CRT RPTVS). On second thought, I do remember quite a few times when directly comparing the Panny and Pioneer 5th gen models, seeing occasional deep shadow details in the
Panny that weren't in the Pioneer. But in comparing the two Pioneers the dark areas looked absolutely identical, excepting that the darkest areas were definitely blacker on the new model. (Hmmmdon't know if that means anything).

Ok, so how did this play out in normal viewing? Interesting enough, the difference seemed quite subtle for a while. I honestly don't think the average viewer would notice, at least under the conditions I was able to view (in fact, the salesman showed one interested customer both models, while I was there, doing his best to alert the customer to the differences. But the customer definitely had an if you say so attitude toward spotting differences between the models).

At first the black level differences were most easily seen during dark scenes. The new 6Gen model definitely had darker black bars for 2:35:1 films and definitely deeper shadow areas, for a punchier more solid look in dark scenes. The 5th gen looked somewhat more washed out in comparison. I wondered are they dark enough? Yeah, I think so. It just edged into satisfying territory. I was finally looking at a Pioneer plasma in which I could essentially forget about a glowing effect of the dark areas and take in the image, undistracted.

The beginning of Alien, with the spaceship pass-over, a ship mottled with shadows against deep space, looked kind of flat on the Pio 5th gen. On the 6th Gen it looked delicious - the deeper blacks carved out the depth and heft of the ship and the various items sticking out of the ship passed by with wonderful dimensionality, almost sticking out of the screen.

Lets leave black levels for a moment. Anything else good? Oh yeah!

Picture noise was subtly, but noticeably and distinctly, reduced on the 6th gen model. The 5th gen displayed what had always sort of annoyed me on the Pioneer models: a sort of blocky quality to fine detail rendering - a digitized effect to fine edges. The 5th gen gives the impression of an over-enhanced type of detail (due, it seems to me, to the sharp blockiness of the processing on edge detail). That's with the noise processing off, but when you put the noise processing on (the 5th gen) it does an artificial, mannequin-like reduction of detail.

Whereas the new display had all the same details but distinctly more natural. On details in people's faces, outlines were certainly clear, but soft and human, without the over-enhanced, synthetic look. Plus, general dithering/scaling noise was noticeably reduced on the 6th gen over the 5th gen. Not totally eliminated but for a plasma it was darned close to it.
(The champ for no-noise DVD reproduction is still the panny ED, from my experience).
Actually, as time went on I was astounded how clean and solid the image was on the new model! It leant a remarkable creamy, solid quality to the image, giving more of the reach in and touch it effect to objects on the screen. Again, subtle and not something that the average Joe is going to notice, but for people who care about these things it is a very rewarding improvement in the image, increasing the overall beauty, naturalness and realism of the image.

We briefly turned on an adjacent LG 42" plasma with the same feed and, while it looked very punchy, it had waay more noise in the image than the Pioneer 6gen. Just looking at that LG and then peering into 50" of serene, solid noiseless expanses on the Pioneer 6gen really said a lot about what Pioneer has achieved.

Color performance on the 6th gen also looked decidedly improved. The slight orange quality to the reds of the 5th gen panel were replaced by a very natural red in the 6th gen, and over all grey scale performance looked superb. No particular color bias standing out. That meant the image could be quite colorful, without everyone's lips looking like they are wearing lipstick (an effect still somewhat present on that 5th gen panel, in comparison.

The 6gen also seemed to eek out just a bit more color detail as well, even though it looked like the color was dialed just a touch back down from the 5th gen. Skin blotches, freckles etc on actors were just a bit more in evidence, although not unnaturally so.

The Pioneer colors have always been a bit too candy-like for my eyes and I've preferred the Panasonics. This is the first time I've seen a Pioneer look so natural and believable, while still giving that Pioneer vividness.

How about the old Motion Judder issue that some of us see? The salesman told me the motion processing had been improved.

In went the torture test from The Hulk in which the camera passes by a bunch of machinery that often brings out judder. Result? Sorry to say: Judder still there. The machinery passed by in distinct, staggering steps of motion, rather than passing by smoothly.
There is a bit of judder noticeable in this shot on my Panasonic, but it is truly distracting on the Pioneer. Both 5th and 6th gen displayed precisely the same amount of judder, so I'm thinkin' that hasn't been improved upon.

And man is that panel BRIGHT! My eyes were actually starting to feel strain after a while, watching it in dimmed lighting. That kind of brightness is nice to have if you need to combat a sun-lit, or very brightly lit room. But under the conditions I actually view anything remotely critically, such brightness would be largely wasted (given I have to crank down my less-bright Panasonic as it is).

As I watched about 2 hours worth of DVDs the across the board improvements in the new model became more and more obvious and significant to my eyes. The deeper black levels didn't only improve the image in dark scenes; it actually helped in most shots. The 6gen just had a slightly deeper, depthier, richer image. Even the various little bits of shadow in an actor's face in a non-night scene were a bit deeper and richer, which sculpted some more solidity and dimension into the image. And across the board, on most images, the 6th gen seemed to have a subtle layer of haze removed from the image, compared to the 5th gen. It made the image more direct.

The combination of awesome clarity - the same as the 5th gen but cleaned up and more natural - along with the cleaner image and deeper blacks gave the display a pristine quality that is hard to match. There is just so much detail in the image, so smoothly and realistically present. I could see every little mud patch on The Hulk, every mottling of his skin tone in vivid yet natural relief.

Has Pioneer now made the best 50 plasma? Well, Pioneer salesmen have been telling me that for the past couple of years but I've just found some things wanting until this new 6gen model. Now it's harder to argue with them. I think it may well have just edged into best plasma territory. But I can't say absolutely for sure until I look at the Fujitsu again or do a good demo of the latest Panasonics. For instance, a few times recently the Panasonic 50 have blown me away with the punch and depth of the image - a holy cow those blacks look rich and deep reaction on some hi-def. The same hi-def looked great on the Pioneer, but for whatever reason the richness of the blacks never blew me awayI was more quietly impressed. (Could have been viewing conditions).

My summation is this, so far from this experience: For sheer picture quality it's hard to go wrong with this panel. Its image is exquisite in almost every way. It is a definite improvement over the previous generation in black levels, reduction of image noise and better color rendition. These are fairly subtle and, again, I think would actually go unnoticed by many novice viewers. But for the picky among us the improvements are noticeable and well worth waiting for. Whether the black levels have reached Panny territory is still up in the air for me, but now at least you don't have to feel cheated on that count in getting a Pioneer. It may well turn out that the Panasonics are close enough for less money for people to still choose a Panasonic.

I think anyone who has ordered one of the 6gen Pioneers will be terrifically happy (unless you have some extremely high expectations on how much improvement you'll see over the last gen).

Nowback to work.


I have to thank Steve at Brentview who was great in just letting me go at it, dueling remotes in hand, and turning off all the store lights for me!
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post #118 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:38 PM
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Excellent! Thank you Rich!! Sounds like I still have a tough choice between the Panasonic and Pioneer.
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post #119 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:50 PM
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Thanks Rich! A very down to earth and reassuring review. I am looking forward to the delivery of my 1130. The improvements you noted are exactly what I have been hoping for. More improvement in judder would be nice, but it was noticable to me only sometimes in the 4G and 5G and not intolerable. (I guess that I can hope for further improvement in the elite model, but only weakly).

It really makes the Pio/Panny choice a no brainer for me. The Panny just lacks too much in features and flexibility. I would take a 5050 over the panny anyway, but now there is little reason to choose a panny at all unless money is a deciding factor.

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. . . . . . . . . . . Peter

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post #120 of 5600 Old 09-19-2005, 09:51 PM
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Wow...and now I mean WOW.

When I first started reading I thought I was going to cry. Then it got better and better. Didn't like hearing that about the judder.

A lot of the artifacts you mention have bothered me at one time or another. Glad to hear most have been improved. I.e., noise etc.

For a thrown together review, you did a great job. You should write reviews for some outfit.

Thanks Rich.

EDIT>>What great timing. My Cowboys just threw the game away and I needed the good news.
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