It's official. I see a rainbow-like effect on every plasma. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > It's official. I see a rainbow-like effect on every plasma.
stardamage's Avatar stardamage 02:33 PM 01-16-2007
Hi, iv got a panasonic 42"px60. Im having a real problem with the rainbow, trailing effect.
On certain programs it is very bad with a yellow/green effect followig movement on certain areas. Even on programs were it isnt as bad, if i start moving my eyes left and right i see it.
Now i have read most of the comments on here, so i guess my question is...

.....is this definatly just down to my own eyes reacting with the plasma. The reason i say this is i have had the tv for 3 weeks and i am certain i didn't see this for the first week. It is so noticeable and annoying i couldn't of missed it surely.

The only thing i can think of is, did my eyes get worse?
Or has the tv got worse?

Had a quick look in curry's today at the tv's and couldn't see any traces of green/rainbow effect.
Dont really know what to do, any ideas?

Cheers for the help people.
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ChrisWiggles's Avatar ChrisWiggles 11:15 AM 01-17-2007
Nothing changed in your eyes, you just started noticing it is all. Once you "see" an artifact for the first time, you'll start seeing it all the time.

Stores are usually very brightly lit, so these things are very difficult to see.
wojtek's Avatar wojtek 11:39 AM 01-17-2007
stardamage - I see these flashes on my TH-50PHD8UK with ONE exception - HD material which is brightly lit (like football, etc).

On any other material - I see them, and they are PITA.

Folks who see them tend to see them on ALL plasmas, but it may be possible that you'll see less of them on other brands.

I'd go to a retailer which has darkened viewing rooms, like Harvey's, Magnolia, etc. I'd take a DVD with me that clearly shows flashes, and I would audition the plasmas with that DVD. I'd dart my eyes left and right for good measure while watching.

In fact, I'll probably do it in 1-2 years when I am ready to upgrade, hoping that the new crop of plasmas will have that problem eliminated or significantly lessened (not holding my breath, though). Otherwise, it's LCD time for me.
McKinley's Avatar McKinley 03:51 PM 01-18-2007
I recently purchased a Pioneer 427XD (UK Model) plasma, having previously owned a Panasonic LCD. Whilst the picture is fantastic, I see yellow flashes quite frequently on DVD's, and find it distracting, almost having to refocus my eyes on what I was viewing.

Does the effect lessen the more the screen is used, or will it always be as bad?

I know you can try and ignore something like this, but I'm not looking for it and still find it jarring and it affects my concentration.
wojtek's Avatar wojtek 04:50 PM 01-18-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKinley View Post

I recently purchased a Pioneer 427XD (UK Model) plasma, having previously owned a Panasonic LCD. Whilst the picture is fantastic, I see yellow flashes quite frequently on DVD's, and find it distracting, almost having to refocus my eyes on what I was viewing.

Does the effect lessen the more the screen is used, or will it always be as bad?

I know you can try and ignore something like this, but I'm not looking for it and still find it jarring and it affects my concentration.

McKinley - the effect did not lessen for me over time. It varies from DVD to DVD, obviously. I tend to see more flashes with high contrast material (ie bright objects on a dark background).

Try reducing the contrast on your plasma - it may help.

I am not sure if a good outboard processor helps. I am afraid this "problem" affects too few people, hence there is relatively little info out there.
slb's Avatar slb 06:53 PM 01-18-2007
Not sure if this is related, but I found this on Wikipedia from an article about human vision.

Afterimages
After exposure to strong light in their sensitivity range, photoreceptors of a given type become desensitized. For a few seconds after the light ceases, they will continue to signal less strongly than they otherwise would. Colors observed during that period will appear to lack the color component detected by the desensitized photoreceptors. This effect is responsible for the phenomenon of afterimages, in which the eye may continue to see a bright figure after looking away from it, but in a complementary color.
McKinley's Avatar McKinley 05:22 AM 01-19-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojtek View Post

McKinley - the effect did not lessen for me over time. It varies from DVD to DVD, obviously. I tend to see more flashes with high contrast material (ie bright objects on a dark background).

Try reducing the contrast on your plasma - it may help.

I am not sure if a good outboard processor helps. I am afraid this "problem" affects too few people, hence there is relatively little info out there.

Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately I originally had the contrast low (now calibrated with DVE) for running in, but still saw the flashes then anyway.

I was really hoping that the phosphor would 'settle' after a reasonable number of hours were clocked up, and that the red and green would hang around a little less than when the panel was new. Sadly if this doesn't happen I'm going to be stuck with an effect I can't help but see even if I'm ignoring it

Don't want to go back to LCD, but don't seem to have a lot of choice.
wojtek's Avatar wojtek 07:28 AM 01-19-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKinley View Post

Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately I originally had the contrast low (now calibrated with DVE) for running in, but still saw the flashes then anyway.

I was really hoping that the phosphor would 'settle' after a reasonable number of hours were clocked up, and that the red and green would hang around a little less than when the panel was new. Sadly if this doesn't happen I'm going to be stuck with an effect I can't help but see even if I'm ignoring it

Don't want to go back to LCD, but don't seem to have a lot of choice.

You, I, and about 200 other people in the world are in the same boat, unfortunately...

I plan to put up with my plasma for another 2 years, by which time, I hope, LCD will deliver a display I can live with.

Luckily, live sports in HD look great on my plasma, and that's what I care about (for now).
stardamage's Avatar stardamage 01:59 PM 01-19-2007
As i wrote above, these yellow trails have been dring me nuts.
Im not sure yet as its only been a day, but i'v been off work with the flu and i didn't notice any trails. I thought maybe its because its a bright day outside, but then i tried it in a darkened room and still very little signs of any trails.

So i thought what else is differant and i worked out that because i was ill i was just staring at the middle of the screen like a zombie, which is probably what you usually do more or less. The first week or so i had the tv i didnt notice any, but then once i noticed the problem my eyes are allways very busy moving left and right.

All im saying is today because i didnt even think of looking for it there was very little, and to me it was an acceptable days viewing. I may be completely wrong so take it with a pinch of salt rather than getting your hopes up too much.

I also think it would explain the headaches as its more likely people would get them from constant sharp eye movemant whilst looking at the telly than from the traces/rainbow itself.
stardamage's Avatar stardamage 02:19 PM 01-19-2007
ok so just tested out my theory on flight plan, and it is still quite bad, but that is a pretty etreme test as its full of dark area's with very bright lights.
wojtek's Avatar wojtek 02:23 PM 01-19-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardamage View Post

i was just staring at the middle of the screen like a zombie, which is probably what you usually do more or less.... snip...

LOL.

I do, wondering why the hell I bought this plasma...


epetti's Avatar epetti 12:46 PM 01-29-2007
Just wanted to contribute my 2 cents. I just bought a Pioneer 5070. Hadn't expected to see any artifacts as usually I don't think I'm that sensitive to that sort of thing, but I also see the rainbow effect. For me it is more of a rainbow than pure yellow. I believe it's mostly yellow with a little bit of red and blue and the end. I only see it in very high contrast scenes -- mostly dark with just small areas of very bright light. I saw it most recently while watching Battlestar Galactica. It is almost unnoticeable during daytime but very noticeable at night, and for me almost the only time I see it is when I blink, during the blink. I guess that's probably similar to rapid eye movement or shaking your hand in front of your eyes. I have it set to the D-Nice post-break-in settings, so it's turned down quite a bit and not in Dynamic mode or anything. I am sitting about 8 feet away from the TV, and I see it on HD signals from the cable box.
Mikey_Gee's Avatar Mikey_Gee 05:09 PM 01-29-2007
OH MY GOD !!!!

This is crazy ... I was out looking at LCD and PDP set today. Reason I am looking for a new set is due to the crazy RBE I see on my current "Short Owned" DLP set that even has a fast 14000 RPM color wheel.

While watching a demo on both the Panasonic Viera TH50PX60 and the Pioneer DP-5070HD I noticed these weird YELLOW FLASHES .... I found it odd, and found it did remind me of my DLP RBE but only in more of a yellow smear streak. So to look into it, I did a search and ended up here.

JUST FRIGGEN GREAT ........ now I am down to LCD as an option.

I may take my chances with the banding and buy the 1080p 52" Sharp LCD set.
epetti's Avatar epetti 05:19 PM 01-29-2007
Just to clarify, I still love my set and the picture it produces. I notice the rainbow, but in such limited circumstances that at least so far it has not negatively impacted my viewing experience. I can live with it just fine. However, if they get to you and you don't like them on a DLP, then I would avoid plasma and go with LCD assuming there isn't some sort of effect there -- has anyone ever reported any form of rainbow on an LCD with or without LED backlighting?
ChrisWiggles's Avatar ChrisWiggles 05:20 PM 01-29-2007
You know, perhaps as a solution people could just watch less television...

It's probably the best thing to do all around.
buzzyboy's Avatar buzzyboy 06:08 PM 01-29-2007
I see Judy Garland whenever i look at a Plasma
Mikey_Gee's Avatar Mikey_Gee 07:27 PM 02-24-2007
I will be going with the 58" Panny 600u. My local shop has fantastic staff that are very helpful in all regards. Very "In The Know" as well, much unlike most local shops.

I only seen the odd yellow flash here and there. But my only fear is once I get it home in my own environment for viewing it does not become an issue.

However, while watching the pioneer elite next to it ... it was sooo easy to spot. I wonder if the differenct gases or whatever mix in the Panny is different. I liked the look of the elite, but I will stay with the Panny since I find the Pioneer FOR SURE showed it off to me a stink load more, when it may be only a minor annoyance on my Panny.

Cheers

*** EDIT March 13th, 2007***

Well as it turns out, I see it like crazy on the Panny as well. I acutally found it MORE annoying than the DLP RBE since the RBE on the DLP was caused by MY EYES moving fast across the screen, but with the PDP I can see it regardless of my eye movement. IT IS ALWAYS THERE ... fast or slow pans. At least with the DLP RBE I can reduce them to a minimum by controlling my eyes... not the case with the PDP.

Slow pan = smaller yellow smear
Fast Pan = Large Smear

Even if I keep my eyes glued I can see them. On an high contrast edge it is in my face.

I was only one day past the 14 day return period and really hope the guys at my local shop help me out with a refund. I have bought from there before WAY BACK and enjoyed dealing with them. I guess the outcome will make or break my relationship with them and decide where my future purchases are made. I do have faith however !!
thepiecesfit's Avatar thepiecesfit 01:07 PM 03-16-2007
i see this on my westinghouse LVM-37w3 37", it annoys me, I was watching sin city over DVI the other day. From my pc. Jeez the yellow flashes were so annoying i couldnt watch it anymore. I dont really see it while playing xbox 360 though.
dtrell's Avatar dtrell 10:21 AM 03-17-2007
turn on 3:3 pulldown on the pioneers and you will hardly see it.
John F. Palacio's Avatar John F. Palacio 10:57 AM 03-17-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

You know, perhaps as a solution people could just watch less television...

It's probably the best thing to do all around.

DITTO!
doubleroll's Avatar doubleroll 10:57 AM 03-17-2007
Don't see it on my P55 Fujitsu at all. Am I missing something?
thepiecesfit's Avatar thepiecesfit 11:33 AM 03-17-2007
i see it on my westinghouse, on high contrast films, like Sin city .
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 12:59 PM 03-17-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleroll View Post

Don't see it on my P55 Fujitsu at all. Am I missing something?

No you're not, the vast majority of plasma owners never report this issue.
Mikey_Gee's Avatar Mikey_Gee 01:55 PM 03-17-2007
Quote:


Well... Some people see the Virgin Mary in pancakes, Jesus in trees and Saints in mountains. So... this guy sees rainbows in plasmas

Much like the RBE on DLP, it's a SMALL NUMBER of folks that see this stuff (even small number with the yellow flash in PDP). Don't knock us for what we see .... but rather, be happy "YOU" do not !!

Just because you do not see it does not mean it does not exist. Trust me .... I SEE IT VERY CLEAR .... and it drives me nuts.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 03:31 PM 03-17-2007
Interestingly I see RBE on DLPs and SSE on sets like the Sony SXRDs...enough so that I would never consider them, but I've never seen a rainbow on any plasma I've ever seen or owned. Of course the rainbows I've seen on my plasmas on Discovery HD are beautiful.
doubleroll's Avatar doubleroll 03:42 PM 03-17-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

No you're not, the vast majority of plasma owners never report this issue.

Thanks!
I know that Plasma and LCD technology is not perfect and I do see various artifacts on both. Clearly Plasma has less flaws than LCD and CRT is best.
We use high res black and white LCD's for medical imaging and I can tell you they are no where near perfect(backlighting issues, stuck pixels,etc) and most Radiologists prefer CRT. Which is why I choose Plasma for my display.

Anyway I am glad to know that I am not the only one who doesn't see rainbows...
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 07:54 PM 03-17-2007
Without being 'flip', I've even suggested that perhaps this is really some eye defect in those that see it. I'm certainly not saying it is, but I've thrown it out as a possibility. I say this only because there are so so many plasma owners out there and so very few seem to have this issue.

So please, if you're one that does, I'm not saying this in a disparaging manner.
RicheyPoor's Avatar RicheyPoor 08:47 PM 03-17-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_Gee View Post

Much like the RBE on DLP, it's a SMALL NUMBER of folks that see this stuff (even small number with the yellow flash in PDP). Don't knock us for what we see .... but rather, be happy "YOU" do not !!

Just because you do not see it does not mean it does not exist. Trust me .... I SEE IT VERY CLEAR .... and it drives me nuts.

I've owned a 50" plasma for a year and a half and I occasionally notice what your seeing. I see it primarily on high contrast black & white programs with fast movement. I.E... fast scrolling credits or someone moving across a scene rapidly. It doesn't bother me because I don't see it often and because the set looks Soooooo good otherwise. I think it's possible that most people can 'tune out' the slight effect you see constantly and I offer this comparison...
Many (if not most) plasma owners came from owning 32" or larger CRT's. From normal seating distances anyone with average vision could detect scan lines on these sets but most of us didn't find them distracting because we were so used to seeing them that we didn't really notice them, even though they're visible 100% of the time. I never found them distracting on my CRT until I got used to the plasma. Now when I watch the CRT they ARE distracting. This can only be because I'm no longer accustomed to seeing them and therefore my brain no longer automatically tunes then out.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that you might see this effect less as time goes by. Either way, you're not crazy unless we both are (a possibility I admit).
conan48's Avatar conan48 04:10 PM 03-18-2007
Ken its no "eye defect" I would say that people that see it have better then normal vision to notice it more easily. ANYONE can see the yellow/green trails. Ken, it says that you are from NY, thats too bad Im from Toronto because I would call you to my house and SHOW you the effect. EVERYONE that Ive shown it too can see it. The thing is that durring normal viewing it's not the bothersome. Sin City would be the best way to see it. Watch any white object move over a dark object on a medium to fast pan and you will see a green or yellow trail guranteed. Rainbow effect is not as big an issue but it can definetely be a problem with Black and white movies. Also, viewing distance is a big factor. Those that sit closer will see the trails much easier then those at a greater distance.

Ken, you've mentioned numerous times throughout this thread that you don't see it and with comments like people must have some eye defect to see it is getting annoying. Its great that YOU don't see it, but it's there. Im serious though. If your ever near Toronto, make a post on this forum and come on over and I will show you what trails look like. Ken, the trailing is so obvious once you see it, that you'll think your an idiot for not noticing it before. Thats not an insult, but its like me at work and someone asks me where the Sharp 46" TV is and they have the remote in their hand looking right at it.
RPNYC's Avatar RPNYC 04:10 PM 03-18-2007
Has anyone who sees this problem noticed if it is more severe for you with newer plasmas or if it gets better at all as they age? I have a big problem with this issue on Pioneer panels and I wonder if it would lessen over time.
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