It's official. I see a rainbow-like effect on every plasma. - Page 22 - AVS Forum

AVS Forum > Display Devices > Plasma Flat Panel Displays > It's official. I see a rainbow-like effect on every plasma.

Plasma Flat Panel Displays

lazerfan's Avatar lazerfan
05:34 AM Liked: 10
post #631 of 883
12-28-2007 | Posts: 474
Joined: Oct 2005
I bought an LG plasma about a month ago and found it odd that I could see rainbows on a black and white movie! Glad I came across this thread.
I find as long as I watch a movie normally, and don't dart my eyes back and forth, the rainbows aren't an issue.
It's very interesting how eyesight sensitivity varies. I can't see screen door effect with my extended definition plasma from 6 feet away, and I can't see flicker on my hi def Sony tube tv set.
Others are bothered greatly by these issues!
tommyhj's Avatar tommyhj
07:52 AM Liked: 10
post #632 of 883
01-23-2008 | Posts: 23
Joined: Mar 2007
I first tought that my pal's Pio plasma was malfunctioning, but as he had paid $4000 I didn't want to make him disappointed by pointing out the flaws. But when I'm at his place, I can barely watch a movie through without beeing intensely irritated and getting sore eyes. Lucky I couldn't afford a plasma and went for LCD :-)

It's amazing that plasmas are generally meant to have superior picture quality over LCD, when they all have this issue. I'll do my best to inform my peers of the problem, so they know what they are getting into, and check if they are sensitive to flicker, before buying a screen that will make their eyes hurt... Most people can't even see the difference between plasma and LCD picture quality, but if they are sensitive to flicker, they surely notice the yellow flashes!
ChrisWiggles's Avatar ChrisWiggles
12:12 PM Liked: 15
post #633 of 883
01-26-2008 | Posts: 20,730
Joined: Nov 2002
Quote:


It's amazing that plasmas are generally meant to have superior picture quality over LCD

I'm not sure why you'd assume that. The new samsung LCDs are superb...
brentsg's Avatar brentsg
01:32 PM Liked: 12
post #634 of 883
01-26-2008 | Posts: 1,943
Joined: Jul 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyhj View Post

I first tought that my pal's Pio plasma was malfunctioning, but as he had paid $4000 I didn't want to make him disappointed by pointing out the flaws. But when I'm at his place, I can barely watch a movie through without beeing intensely irritated and getting sore eyes. Lucky I couldn't afford a plasma and went for LCD :-)

It's amazing that plasmas are generally meant to have superior picture quality over LCD, when they all have this issue. I'll do my best to inform my peers of the problem, so they know what they are getting into, and check if they are sensitive to flicker, before buying a screen that will make their eyes hurt... Most people can't even see the difference between plasma and LCD picture quality, but if they are sensitive to flicker, they surely notice the yellow flashes!

And if they are sensitive to yellow flashes then they are probably also sensitive to LCD motion blur as well. You can't win when you see this stuff.
gobluesecurity's Avatar gobluesecurity
09:56 PM Liked: 10
post #635 of 883
03-22-2008 | Posts: 64
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymedia9029 View Post

I knew grene/yellow fringing on plasmas was inherent to the technology but I actually didnt think there was this many instances and discussion about it. It's actually more common than I thought to begin with. I've seen it too especially on my 60 inch panasonic 07 model, never on a pio although I see people talk about it.

I guess it's really more of an issue than I thought.

Why are you posting to a 2-month old thread with random comments .. hmm..
conan48's Avatar conan48
03:28 PM Liked: 253
post #636 of 883
03-23-2008 | Posts: 2,250
Joined: Jun 2003
Anyone comment on how the new panny 08 models handle the trailing?
JWhip's Avatar JWhip
05:26 PM Liked: 375
post #637 of 883
03-23-2008 | Posts: 4,450
Joined: Jun 2001
I guess I am lucky, I have seen many many plasma models from almost every manufacturer since their inception and have never seen the yellow trails mentioned by some posters. THis is not to say you don't see them but if you do, plasma is not the technology for you.
Yume's Avatar Yume
08:50 AM Liked: 10
post #638 of 883
06-05-2008 | Posts: 8
Joined: Jun 2008
Hello everyone,

I don't know if it has been discussed in this board earlier, but I seem to be able to see this rainbow like effect on LCD TVs too.

I recently bought a Sony KDL-40W4000 and I can easily see some greenish flashes in high contrast scenes (still images too) when I move my eyes rapidly.

This effect seems to be most noticeable when the backlight of the TV is set to minimum. If I increase the backlight to almost maximum I cannot see it anymore.

Does anyone have a scientific explanation to this effect?
PENDRAG0ON's Avatar PENDRAG0ON
09:04 AM Liked: 562
post #639 of 883
06-05-2008 | Posts: 9,515
Joined: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yume View Post

Hello everyone,

I don't know if it has been discussed in this board earlier, but I seem to be able to see this rainbow like effect on LCD TVs too.

I recently bought a Sony KDL-40W4000 and I can easily see some greenish flashes in high contrast scenes (still images too) when I move my eyes rapidly.

This effect seems to be most noticeable when the backlight of the TV is set to minimum. If I increase the backlight to almost maximum I cannot see it anymore.

Does anyone have a scientific explanation to this effect?

I've seen them on my PSP screen as well..... Try a Samsung LCD and see if you can see them on it as well.
ChrisWiggles's Avatar ChrisWiggles
01:27 PM Liked: 15
post #640 of 883
06-05-2008 | Posts: 20,730
Joined: Nov 2002
I've never seen rainbow-like artifacts per se on an LCD, however I have seen many LCDs particularly older LCD projectors with a kind of scanline artifact, but you don't really see colors. I'm not sure what you're seeing.
Yume's Avatar Yume
02:26 PM Liked: 10
post #641 of 883
06-05-2008 | Posts: 8
Joined: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

I've never seen rainbow-like artifacts per se on an LCD, however I have seen many LCDs particularly older LCD projectors with a kind of scanline artifact, but you don't really see colors. I'm not sure what you're seeing.

I found one explanation in AVForums. It has been reported in Sony X3000/X3500 series thread. I have to quote it since I can't post links yet:

Quote:
Originally Posted by steverobertsbbc View Post

The rainbowing is the backlight dimmer - it uses pulse width modulation to control the amount of light and the flicker beats with the panel refresh rate. The lower the light, the less time the tube is illuminated for and the more obvious the rainbowing. At max backlight, it's on constantly and there is consequently no rainbow effect.

If you have a PS3, put it in the mode where it asks you if you want to turn off the system, which gives you bright white graphics on a black screen. Put the backlight on minimum and just flick your eyes around the screen, you'll see predominantly green flashes. Turn the backlight up and the effect reduces until it disappears at max setting.

Chris, do you agree with the above?
s2mikey's Avatar s2mikey
04:18 PM Liked: 107
post #642 of 883
06-05-2008 | Posts: 2,865
Joined: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

I'm not sure why you'd assume that. The new samsung LCDs are superb...

They might be superb...for LCD. They still cant quite get the blacks right and stillsuffer from that washed-out LCD "look" that everyone falls in love with at Circuit City.

Hey, all good with me.
burnsalkire's Avatar burnsalkire
04:49 PM Liked: 10
post #643 of 883
06-05-2008 | Posts: 501
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yume View Post

Hello everyone,

I don't know if it has been discussed in this board earlier, but I seem to be able to see this rainbow like effect on LCD TVs too.

I recently bought a Sony KDL-40W4000 and I can easily see some greenish flashes in high contrast scenes (still images too) when I move my eyes rapidly.

This effect seems to be most noticeable when the backlight of the TV is set to minimum. If I increase the backlight to almost maximum I cannot see it anymore.

Does anyone have a scientific explanation to this effect?

Magic mushrooms?
rgb32's Avatar rgb32
05:00 PM Liked: 22
post #644 of 883
06-05-2008 | Posts: 937
Joined: Jul 2007
It sounds like Yume is trying to derail the topic here... And as far as the 2008 Panasonic plasmas go, they still exhibit the phosphor trail effects, just like the Kuros. The black level of most plasmas (other than the 2008 pannys or the kuros) is not very good... come on people!
Yume's Avatar Yume
03:32 AM Liked: 10
post #645 of 883
06-06-2008 | Posts: 8
Joined: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb32 View Post

It sounds like Yume is trying to derail the topic here...

Should I create a new thread about this issue in LCD board instead?
Yume's Avatar Yume
07:14 AM Liked: 10
post #646 of 883
06-06-2008 | Posts: 8
Joined: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yume View Post

Should I create a new thread about this issue in LCD board instead?

Alright I created a new topic here to keep this thread about plasma only.

edit: Moderator can delete my posts from this thread if needed.
[Irishman]'s Avatar [Irishman]
07:37 AM Liked: 72
post #647 of 883
06-06-2008 | Posts: 1,530
Joined: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1920x1080 View Post

Same here, really bad. It's like I can almost make out the vertical blanking interval in my peripheral vision. Another interesting effect is to, for lack of a better description, mechanically modulate your vision (sexy huh?), say by clearing your throat or coughing while looking at a DLP or CRT image. I first noticed this with PC CRT images years ago...pretty weird strobe-like effect.

I think that might be interlaced flicker you're seeing. That's a common visual hiccup. I see it too. Check it the next time you go in and see if the progessive tubes (i.e. the HD ones) feature it too.
chrisherbert's Avatar chrisherbert
09:10 AM Liked: 15
post #648 of 883
06-06-2008 | Posts: 5,863
Joined: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post

They might be superb...for LCD. They still cant quite get the blacks right and stillsuffer from that washed-out LCD "look" that everyone falls in love with at Circuit City.

Hey, all good with me.

Samsung LCD blacks are better than all plasmas other than the Kuro, I believe.
tmacias's Avatar tmacias
01:41 PM Liked: 10
post #649 of 883
06-20-2008 | Posts: 11
Joined: Nov 2005
I just picked up the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5010FD at Costco for $2600 but have a concern. My family watches a boat load of TV. We have DTV sat and I get local HD off the air with all first going though a HD Tivo DTV box and then into my Denon 3806 A/V reciever. All components go to the Denon and then to the TV.

I am in the mist of remodeling so I set up the Pioneer on our dinning room table to burn it in. I did not read the manual as I just wanted to start the burn in cycle. I first connect the off air antenna (to get HD signal to the TV) but got a really crappy signal. I then took our HD Tivo box and conneted the DTV sat and the off air antenna to it, and then connected component video cables to the Pioneer. Got a good pitcure. Does this mean the Pioneer does not have a HD tuner?

Also, everyone in my family is complaining that the picture is lousy. We are sitting around 10 feet from the TV and watching SD channels. 10 feet will be the maximum sitting area in the living room when it gets completed. Is a 50 in too big? For non-blue ray veiwing, is the Pioneer plasma too much? I was originally looking at the Samsung LN52A650 at a lower price but went for the Pioneer because of the Costco deal and all the positive reviews. I am now thinking that I need a smaller TV than 50 in and maybe even an non-plasma for the type of viewing we normal do.

Any suggestion. I still have time to return the Pioneer to Costco.
Aetherhole's Avatar Aetherhole
01:49 PM Liked: 17
post #650 of 883
06-20-2008 | Posts: 1,111
Joined: Mar 2004
Are the channels you are getting Digital or Analog OTA? I'm not sure how it is for the 5010, but for my 151 there's an option to switch between the two. The button my remote is DTV/TV. Check to see if that's the problem.

Honestly, digital SD channels should still look pretty good on the 5010. 50" for 10 feet away is not too big in fact, I, personally, would even go with a 60", but that's just me. Also, will you be getting a blu-ray player? Why is it going to be solely non-blu-ray viewing?
tmacias's Avatar tmacias
02:30 PM Liked: 10
post #651 of 883
06-20-2008 | Posts: 11
Joined: Nov 2005
Thanks for the reply Aetherhole.

All channels OTA are digital. The way the TIVO HD box is set up is to take the basic channels (eg channel 2) from DTV sat signal and take the HD channels (eg. channel 2.1 & 2.2) from OTA antenna.

One of my coworkers came by and I told him what was happening and he asked me what digital signal I was sending to the TV. It triggered a memory. My old TV although HD ready, only supported up to 720P. I had problem with the TIVO box set to 1080i so I change the output to 480P. I am only allowing 480P to go to the Pioneer. I will change this tonight and see if this was the problem.

As for the non-Blue Ray, it is matter of cost. I completely remodeled our living room to put the TV over the fireplace. Changed fireplace to gas and bought a high end log set, lowered the fireplace and added a new mantel and hearth. Change the floors to hardwood and then bought new furniture. So far, I have only heard a few minor comments from my wife. I think it is time to put the spending breaks on for a while.

One other thing I did notice in the room I am burning in the Poneer. It is warm. Do Plasmas product more heat than LCD? The mantel I put over the fireplace extends out 12 inches to keep the heat from the TV. I did not think the TV would product its own.
mjb4's Avatar mjb4
03:29 PM Liked: 10
post #652 of 883
06-20-2008 | Posts: 379
Joined: Jun 2008
i see the rainbows on all dlps but never on plasmas. i guess no matter how good tvs get there will never be one perfect set bcuz everyones eyes sre different.
Big East Cards's Avatar Big East Cards
08:15 PM Liked: 10
post #653 of 883
06-20-2008 | Posts: 86
Joined: May 2006
Bring Back Crts!!!
CruelInventions's Avatar CruelInventions
10:20 PM Liked: 211
post #654 of 883
06-20-2008 | Posts: 4,613
Joined: Mar 2004
I hereby nominate tmacias for Most off-topic thread poster of the week!
JimP
06:12 AM Liked: 229
post #655 of 883
06-21-2008 | Posts: 15,615
Joined: Sep 2002
Cruel....I agree. Poor guy's been running SD on a HD set. Sounds like something I would have done.

Back on topic. Anyone with the visual sensitivity that sees the yellow freinging (rainbows)with rapid eye movement in high contrast usually black and white scenes, notice an increase or decrease with the 120 hz sets?

Seems to me that as the refresh rate increases the effect should lesson....but just not sure.

Any comments?
b_scott's Avatar b_scott
01:33 PM Liked: 17
post #656 of 883
07-02-2008 | Posts: 6,679
Joined: Jan 2008
i saw this too at first on my Pio 5010. after a month i never do, unless i'm purposefully darting my eyes back and forth (not actually watching the panel).
ghken's Avatar ghken
08:23 PM Liked: 10
post #657 of 883
07-04-2008 | Posts: 52
Joined: Dec 2005
Wanted to add my experience to the historical record here. I picked up a Pioneer 5080 in January. Had never heard of the color flash/trailing issue with plasma before I got it. After being completely satisfied watching OTA fare on it for a few weeks and thinking I had the baddest tv on the block, I put in an old B&W movie on DVD and thought i was trippin' seeing these little flashes of yellow/green dancing around the screen.

I immediately came to AVS to understand what in the world I was seeing and found this thread. I was quite concerned and wondered if plasma was going to work for me. There were some encouraging posts that made me hopeful that the effect would disappear over time.

I am happy to report back 6 months later that the effect is now virtually gone. Once in a blue moon I might briefly notice it, but it is rare and in no way inteferes with my enjoyment of the Pio.
DevoX's Avatar DevoX
06:33 AM Liked: 10
post #658 of 883
07-05-2008 | Posts: 453
Joined: Nov 2000
As the original poster stated nearly three years ago, I too see these rainbow-style effects on plasma screens. Any plasma screen. Every one that I've ever looked at. I would call it more of a greenish-yellow than straight yellow.

I also see them on CRT rear projection sets, but it's always distinctly green and red. I never really see the blue.

I've never seen rainbows with LCDs.

FYI: I own a plasma set. I do prefer the plasma picture over LCD.
booker21's Avatar booker21
12:54 PM Liked: 11
post #659 of 883
07-05-2008 | Posts: 1,372
Joined: Apr 2004
i did see rainbow effect on my plasma the first 3 weeks, now i canĀ“t see it anymore, i got used to it. thank god! it was annoying by then.
Pestilenc's Avatar Pestilenc
09:58 PM Liked: 10
post #660 of 883
07-19-2008 | Posts: 4
Joined: Dec 2007
Just wanted to add my two cents here. I picked up a 9G Pioneer 5020 the other week and have been plagued with yellow/green flashes. I noticed them not more than an hour after setting it up (I used D-Nice's settings, so its not in torch mode) and started googling and ran into this thread.

I'm going to try fiddling with the color controls but at this point it looks like I'm going to have to return it. It sucks because other than the flashing, its a truly stunning picture.

Glad I'm not alone, as my gf can't see it at all...

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