It's official. I see a rainbow-like effect on every plasma. - Page 26 - AVS Forum
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post #751 of 883 Old 11-30-2009, 09:02 AM
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Sample rate aliasing can lead to all sorts of weird effects. When professionals film a TV they get the camera in sync with the TV's refresh rate.

The camera is likely picking up the "rainbow effect" because it just happens to be sampling at the point where some phosphors have decayed but others haven't. We've all seen the case where a non-synced camera is used on a CRT, typically the flicker is horrible because the camera will sync up with the blanking periods.
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post #752 of 883 Old 01-10-2010, 05:29 PM
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It's official...I see it as well and I'm really bummed!

It's particularly noticeable when watching high-contrast scenes in dark surroundings, when I typically have my Panasonic TC-P42G10 in THX mode. Probably doesn't help that I've been watching Battlestar Galactica, which has a lot of dark scenes and florescent lights.

If people want to know what it looks like, I've uploaded a video to Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqGGeQfv54k

Here's a still (sorry it's low-resolution...old camera):



For me the flashes are extremely distracting, taking me out of whatever movie I'm watching. I'm glad I only bought a 42", as we decided to wait for prices on larger sets to drop further before we got a size better suited for our 10-foot viewing distance.

When I do, it'll probably be a non-plasma display. Yes, the problem is annoying enough that I'll sacrifice picture quality in order to avoid the "green flash"!
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post #753 of 883 Old 01-10-2010, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikrrr View Post

It's official...I see it as well and I'm really bummed!

It's particularly noticeable when watching high-contrast scenes in dark surroundings, when I typically have my Panasonic TC-P42G10 in THX mode. Probably doesn't help that I've been watching Battlestar Galactica, which has a lot of dark scenes and florescent lights.

If people want to know what it looks like, I've uploaded a video to Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqGGeQfv54k

Here's a still (sorry it's low-resolution...old camera):



For me the flashes are extremely distracting, taking me out of whatever movie I'm watching. I'm glad I only bought a 42", as we decided to wait for prices on larger sets to drop further before we got a size better suited for our 10-foot viewing distance.

When I do, it'll probably be a non-plasma display. Yes, the problem is annoying enough that I'll sacrifice picture quality in order to avoid the "green flash"!

Why were you moving the camera shooting the video quickly back and forth? It seems like that's what caused the flashing.
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post #754 of 883 Old 01-10-2010, 09:40 PM
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I was totally bummed after finally pulling the trigger on a Pioneer Kuro 500M and almost immediately started seeing 'rainbow' type effects. I had a DLP front projector and would noticed the rainbows from time to time. I have to agree with someone who wrote that its actually a bit worse on plasma. it's not quite the same effect of DLP but it's definitely flashes of yellow, etc esp on high contrast scenes as others have mentioned.

I"m not sure if there is anyway to correct. i'm bummed!
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post #755 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicy View Post

I was totally bummed after finally pulling the trigger on a Pioneer Kuro 500M and almost immediately started seeing 'rainbow' type effects. I had a DLP front projector and would noticed the rainbows from time to time. I have to agree with someone who wrote that its actually a bit worse on plasma. it's not quite the same effect of DLP but it's definitely flashes of yellow, etc esp on high contrast scenes as others have mentioned.

I"m not sure if there is anyway to correct. i'm bummed!

Panasonic's new 3D Plasmas may fix the problem, or at least reduce it to acceptable levels:

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post #756 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 03:37 AM
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I see dead people.
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post #757 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 06:51 AM
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It's all smoke and mirrors.....once the smoke escapes you are finished. I will have 2 of whatever these guys are taking.
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post #758 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVJunkie2010 View Post

Why were you moving the camera shooting the video quickly back and forth? It seems like that's what caused the flashing.

Exactly! I intentionally moved the camera like that, in order to replicate the problem!

The problem that I experience is when I move my focus from one spot of the screen to another, as is the case when following the two characters in the above scene. This rapid eye movement is called a saccade, and it's during that saccadic movement when I see the yellow/green flashes.

I wanted to see if this effect was purely perceptual (all in my head) or if it was optical in nature. So I decided to use my camera and try to reproduce the scenario as best I could. The fact that the video captures it, proves that it is indeed an optical phenomenon.

It seems that only a few people actually notice it, let alone, are bothered by it. Unfortunately I'm one of those few!
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post #759 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bikrrr View Post

It seems that only a few people actually notice it, let alone, are bothered by it. Unfortunately I'm one of those few!

Have you had laser eye surgery?
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post #760 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 10:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bikrrr View Post

Exactly! I intentionally moved the camera like that, in order to replicate the problem!

The problem that I experience is when I move my focus from one spot of the screen to another, as is the case when following the two characters in the above scene. This rapid eye movement is called a saccade, and it's during that saccadic movement when I see the yellow/green flashes.

I wanted to see if this effect was purely perceptual (all in my head) or if it was optical in nature. So I decided to use my camera and try to reproduce the scenario as best I could. The fact that the video captures it, proves that it is indeed an optical phenomenon.

It seems that only a few people actually notice it, let alone, are bothered by it. Unfortunately I'm one of those few!

Well the reason I asked is because when I watch a movie my head and eyes rarely have to move much as the picture is there right in front of me and it only takes a slight shift of the eyes to capture everything on the screen. I have recently been diagnosed with 4th order palsy which makes my eyes focus slowly when moving rapidly and also creates double vision when tilting my head to the left or looking down with my eyes and head still. Even with this problem it cause no viewing problems when watching TV. If you're moving your head rapidly while watching TV maybe retraining yourself to keep your head more still might help alleviate the problem.
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post #761 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

Panasonic's new 3D Plasmas may fix the problem, or at least reduce it to acceptable levels:


Also, Samsung has developed new phosphors for 2010 3D PDP.


Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
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post #762 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 10:30 AM
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Good explanation of it here.

...karl
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post #763 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 11:05 AM
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man i feel sorry for you. can't even enjoy HD.
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post #764 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 11:07 AM
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according to this you are cursed. see a witch doctor to remove said curse

What Are You On About? There’s No Trail On My Plasma!
The good news is that 99% of plasma TV owners do not see the problem 99% of the time. However, some people who are “cursed” with sensitive eyes (these people usually notice flicker even when the refresh rate on their computer monitor is set at 75Hz) can’t help but notice the phosphor trails. The aim of this article is to make you – if you’re considering buying a plasma TV – aware that such a problem exists, and that you should make sure you’re not susceptible to it before committing yourself.
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post #765 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by another schmo View Post

Have you had laser eye surgery?

No.
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post #766 of 883 Old 01-11-2010, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVJunkie2010 View Post

If you're moving your head rapidly while watching TV maybe retraining yourself to keep your head more still might help alleviate the problem.

I'm not moving my head, I'm moving my eyes. Saccadic movements are a normal part of human vision.

Here's an excerpt from the definition of Saccade on Wikipedia:

Humans and other animals do not look at a scene in fixed steadiness; instead, the eyes move around, locating interesting parts of the scene and building up a mental 'map' corresponding to the scene. One reason for the saccadic movement of the human eye is that the central part of the retina—known as the fovea—plays a critical role in resolving objects. By moving the eye so that small parts of a scene can be sensed with greater resolution, body resources can be used more efficiently.

Other related pages
http://www.neuronresearch.net/vision...g/saccades.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_%28sensory%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea
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post #767 of 883 Old 01-12-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikrrr View Post

I'm not moving my head, I'm moving my eyes. Saccadic movements are a normal part of human vision.

Here's an excerpt from the definition of Saccade on Wikipedia:

Humans and other animals do not look at a scene in fixed steadiness; instead, the eyes move around, locating interesting parts of the scene and building up a mental 'map' corresponding to the scene. One reason for the saccadic movement of the human eye is that the central part of the retinaknown as the foveaplays a critical role in resolving objects. By moving the eye so that small parts of a scene can be sensed with greater resolution, body resources can be used more efficiently.

Other related pages
http://www.neuronresearch.net/vision...g/saccades.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_%28sensory%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea

Find a website that is actually done by doctors....not just some idiot that posts what he thinks. Witch doctors are the best for the removal of said curse. Worked in my case but i still only have one good eye.
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post #768 of 883 Old 01-12-2010, 06:55 PM
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Here's a pic of my doc...I think she'll be able to help me.

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post #769 of 883 Old 01-12-2010, 07:19 PM
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Wow...such an old thread...I think this plasma old-timer has to drop in and say hi...er...and leave.
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post #770 of 883 Old 06-20-2010, 12:19 AM
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So is this still a "problem" on new Panasonic tvs? I could see it on my friends old Panasonic Plasma but when I went to the store I could not detect the phenomenon on last years models...
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post #771 of 883 Old 06-20-2010, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kristoffer77 View Post

So is this still a "problem" on new Panasonic tvs? I could see it on my friends old Panasonic Plasma but when I went to the store I could not detect the phenomenon on last years models...

I could see it really well on the 08 models, but I rarely see it on the 09 and 2010 models (it is greatly reduced to my eyes) and I haven't even checked a 3d model yet.

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post #772 of 883 Old 06-20-2010, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicy View Post

I was totally bummed after finally pulling the trigger on a Pioneer Kuro 500M and almost immediately started seeing 'rainbow' type effects. I had a DLP front projector and would noticed the rainbows from time to time. I have to agree with someone who wrote that its actually a bit worse on plasma. it's not quite the same effect of DLP but it's definitely flashes of yellow, etc esp on high contrast scenes as others have mentioned.

I"m not sure if there is anyway to correct. i'm bummed!

Yup, yup... join the club! I was going to purchase the first Kuro Elite (PRO-110) and noticed this nasty issue, and the PRO-111 wasn't an improvement. While the VT2x series is an improvement, the red and green phosphors are still orders of magnitude quicker (over 10 times slower than blue). So much for superior motion on a flat panel!
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post #773 of 883 Old 06-20-2010, 01:14 PM
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WOW! I just Googled this to see if it was just me. Guess I was wrong!

I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me with my new 50" Panasonic G20 plasma. I am watching The Book of Eli and having a drink (Maybe the booze is slowing my senses enough to notice it) and I start seeing these blue and yellow flashes of lines during high contrast scenes.

How annoying! Oh well. Guess it's only occasionally I will see this (I hope).
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post #774 of 883 Old 06-20-2010, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I could see it really well on the 08 models, but I rarely see it on the 09 and 2010 models (it is greatly reduced to my eyes) and I haven't even checked a 3d model yet.

Actually now that I think about it I have only seen the new models with normal SD tv - no Blu Ray / DVD.
When I saw the phenomenon at my friend I actually didn't notice it on normal TV. But when we put on a DVD or Blu Ray i noticed it immediately. So the better the quality the more notable?
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post #775 of 883 Old 06-20-2010, 03:50 PM
 
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I have seen this on my old 3000 sxrd,it also had the shiny silver silk screen effect but I do not see it on my 58vt25.
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post #776 of 883 Old 08-16-2010, 07:50 PM
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i just purchased a Panasonic TC-P65S2 and i've noticed rainbows since the first day but i thought it might be me. i thought i would google it and sure enough, i'm not the only one susceptible to this phenomenon.

i can still return the tv but i'm not sure if there is anything out there that will fully satisfy me. i can't stand new lcd (soap opera affect), dlp rainbows give me headaches, i have too much ambient light for FP lcd, and i want a screen size that is at least 65" but still somewhat affordable....
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post #777 of 883 Old 08-16-2010, 08:19 PM
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Laservue from Mitsubishi. maybe. I have no idea what the pricing is like or availability these days, but something to check out as a possible alternative.

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post #778 of 883 Old 08-16-2010, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicklaz View Post

i just purchased a Panasonic TC-P65S2 and i've noticed rainbows since the first day but i thought it might be me. i thought i would google it and sure enough, i'm not the only one susceptible to this phenomenon.

i can still return the tv but i'm not sure if there is anything out there that will fully satisfy me. i can't stand new lcd (soap opera affect), dlp rainbows give me headaches, i have too much ambient light for FP lcd, and i want a screen size that is at least 65" but still somewhat affordable....

s2 is bottom of the barrel panasonic plasma. try something with faster refresh rate like the vt25 series that actually has faster phosphors (to accommodate 3-D). I haven't seen that model (s2) first hand, but I can say that higher end plasmas typically have higher quality parts and higher quality panels. This generally means better picture with less artifact pollution.
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post #779 of 883 Old 01-16-2011, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

s2 is bottom of the barrel panasonic plasma. try something with faster refresh rate like the vt25 series that actually has faster phosphors (to accommodate 3-D). I haven't seen that model (s2) first hand, but I can say that higher end plasmas typically have higher quality parts and higher quality panels. This generally means better picture with less artifact pollution.

I've purchased a TC-P65VT25, it was delivered two days ago. Almost immediately on Tivo HD sports recordings I started getting the sensation of flickering on the screen, in bright white areas (scores, uniforms, lines on the field, etc). Eventually I started to notice rainbow-like artifacts, mostly as I moved my eyes to different parts of the screen. The flickering sensation is constant, even if I hold my eyes in place, much like looking at a 60Hz CRT.

This is my first plasma. I had never heard of this issue in plasmas before, so I had to search for it. I didn't notice it in the store. It must be a rare observation, because this thread was pretty hard to find. But it is a real concern as it seems to be causing me eye-strain, the same reason I've had to avoid DLP like a plague.

I hope I don't have to return the set.
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post #780 of 883 Old 01-18-2011, 07:41 AM
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Well, after the buzzing, now this!
It seems I'm sensitive to pretty much every flaws of plasma sets.

It's a real PITA, I'm so amazed at the PQ, but I can hear the set buzz like crazy AND rainbow effects. I've had the set for 3 weeks now and I don't know what to do. Well, clearly there's nothing I CAN do... have to live with it. Haven't even watched a full lenght movie in the dark yet. Hope it doesn't get worse.
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