It's official. I see a rainbow-like effect on every plasma. - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 883 Old 07-25-2011, 02:10 PM
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Does anyone have a newer model of Panasonic plasma that advertises this in the product overview? It seems most of the new models on their website advertise this and it would be interesting to hear from someone who sees this effect if the newer models have helped the issue.

Fast Switching Phosphor

The use of fast switching phosphors has significantly reduced afterglow duration and reproduced clear 3D and 2D images. Fast switching phosphors are used in all full HD models.
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post #812 of 883 Old 07-25-2011, 04:40 PM
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What does the rainbow effect look like if they really are showing a rainbow on the plasma?
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post #813 of 883 Old 07-25-2011, 05:17 PM
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When I first got my 50" C7000, I noticed 'rainbowing' as well for it seemed like the first week. I haven't seen ANY 'rainbowing' after the first week or two. Maybe I had to just let my eyes adjust?
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post #814 of 883 Old 07-25-2011, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gempulse View Post

When I first got my 50" C7000, I noticed 'rainbowing' as well for it seemed like the first week. I haven't seen ANY 'rainbowing' after the first week or two. Maybe I had to just let my eyes adjust?

Yes, your eyes do adjust and it isn't as annoying.
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post #815 of 883 Old 07-26-2011, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Phoshpor rise time and decay times are the source of the issue.

Blue phosphor rise and decay times are in the microsecond to nanosecond range

Greenand Red phosphor rise and decay times are in the millisecond range.


Wow I think this explains exactly what I'm seeing. I know that the colours go weird when things are moving but playing around I noticed it is red/blue static when things are turning white and green when they are going dark again.

For example if I drag a white window around my dark desktop I see red/blue static and a purple smudge on the leading edge inside the window and green smudge that follows the trailing edge. This makes sense if the red/blue 'turn on' before the greens do and then the greens take longer to 'turn off'. Fast phosphors my ass. I think I'd rather have LCD blurring at this point at least the colours don't fall apart.

I think it might be official that I regret buying this TV. Other than viewing angles and black level everything about the picture is a disappointment. Between phosphor lag, line bleed, fluctuating brightness and image retention it never seems to run out of ways to annoy me.
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post #816 of 883 Old 12-01-2011, 09:19 AM
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I read a recent patent applicatin today from Panasonic that suggests a method of using multiple phosphors (layers or mixtures) per cell that convert wavelengths. They claim that they can achieve below 1ms decay for all three colors (including green ). This would eliminated phosphor decay, cross-talk, and improve motion resolution as well.

Of course this is being researched to eliminate cross-talk but I thought some that are bothered by phosphor lag would like to hear this as well.

Unfortunately, this is a single patent from a single author which is not the best sign of viability IMO.

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post #817 of 883 Old 08-05-2012, 06:54 PM
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Wild. Just got my first plasma, a panny 65st50 and guess what, I can see rainbows whenever there is a very bright white object against a black background and I shift my eyes. Not as bad as DLP was for me but still noticeable. Never saw anything like it with my LCD pj. I guess i am just one of those really sensitive types

Pq is phenomenal though
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post #818 of 883 Old 08-05-2012, 06:56 PM
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Whoops. DP
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post #819 of 883 Old 08-06-2012, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Wild. Just got my first plasma, a panny 65st50 and guess what, I can see rainbows whenever there is a very bright white object against a black background and I shift my eyes. Not as bad as DLP was for me but still noticeable. Never saw anything like it with my LCD pj. I guess i am just one of those really sensitive types
Pq is phenomenal though

Get some hours on it before you consider a return, the effect lessens during the break in period and your eyes get used to it so it may go away.

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post #820 of 883 Old 09-15-2012, 11:34 AM
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Never heard of it and noticed it with my new 50ST50. Especially noticeable when the scene has bright white (gray) against a dark background (likes others have mentioned). Watched "The Artist" last night, and it was like peering thru a prism for me - the same with "Blade Runner" too. By the way, off center it is less obvious. Sadly, the Blu-Ray picture quality is beautiful, but the ABL, and this rainbow effect is very annoying. Just needed to mention, my wife does not see it. Go figure?
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post #821 of 883 Old 09-15-2012, 02:53 PM
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Wow!
I don't know if I've got crappy eyes or am just lucky but I've never noticed this effect.
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post #822 of 883 Old 09-15-2012, 02:58 PM
 
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Have never seen it either. See it on LCD & DLP projectors, but never on a Plasma.
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post #823 of 883 Old 09-17-2012, 11:00 AM
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I see it on every plasma set - worst on Panasonic, best on LG. No big deal - it lessens with panel aging.

It's funny - if you watch old episodes of the show "24", they use Panasonic plasmas in the background scenery. Every time the camera pans, you can see the yellow streaking, just like real life! It's easy to capture on video.

=Tommy v2=
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post #824 of 883 Old 09-18-2012, 04:56 AM
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I see rainbow effect on every plasma, i to have found pannys to be wosre and my sammy has got better with age, but what i found helped was bias lighting.

I very rarely see it in the day and its worse on poor source stuff,

I explain it by saying sit in front of the tv now if things are happen and the point of focus is off center your eyes move this is when i see it red green and blue,
And i also find it worse if i am tired.

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post #825 of 883 Old 10-04-2012, 07:11 AM
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Just picked up a Panasonic TC-P50ST50. I see these yellow flashes everywhere on high contrast edges whenever a bright color is next to black. My girlfriend pointed it out too when her 'eyes scan the screen'. I'm hoping we get used to it otherwise the TV may need to go back. Damn shame because the display is stellar and the black levels are insane. I may in the end need to settle for an LED tv . But i'm gonna sit this out for a week or two and see if anything changes.
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post #826 of 883 Old 10-04-2012, 10:27 AM
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If you can watch a black and white movie with subtitles and not go crazy, then I'd say keep it.
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post #827 of 883 Old 10-04-2012, 11:20 AM
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The effect was obvious at first but we rarely notice it now. We have had our 50" plasma Panny for nearly 7 years.

~~~ Happy Viewing ~~~

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post #828 of 883 Old 10-04-2012, 01:16 PM
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I suppose it really depends on what you are watching. We were watching The Tudors and it was awful. Lot of underground shots with a lot of black and candles , torches. Bright fire near darkness lights up with crazy flashing.

On the other spectrum we fired up Avatar on Blu-ray and barely noticed it. The next test will be Sin City which is probably the worst offender according to reports:rolleyes:


Update: Sin City was unwatchable the amount of trails and phosphor flashes was seizure enducing smile.gif I did notice some factors that increase the behavior. When the display is biased towards a warmer white balance it seems to display more rainbow like flashing. When I set the display to cinema or standard , which seem to use some more blueish white balance the behavior was almost non existant.
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post #829 of 883 Old 10-10-2012, 03:06 PM
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Just found this thread. I've had my 65VT50 for almost a week and i see the same thing. I also saw rainbows on dlp. Funny that i've never seen it on anyone else's plasma. I hope i adjust to it. It's not enough for me to not love my new tv though.smile.gif

Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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post #830 of 883 Old 10-19-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Just found this thread. I've had my 65VT50 for almost a week and i see the same thing. I also saw rainbows on dlp. Funny that i've never seen it on anyone else's plasma. I hope i adjust to it. It's not enough for me to not love my new tv though.smile.gif

Its been 150 hours and I got kind of used to it. Dont see it as much as the at first. Helps to have bias lighting behind the tv. Picked up a T8 fixture used as a black light and a westinghouse daylight CFL tube . There is a bump on the tv behind it that is perfect you can velcro it behind. Cant say how enormously this helps with black levels, reflections and general eye fatique.



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post #831 of 883 Old 11-20-2012, 12:31 AM
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Just keeping this thread alive; I've had my second P50ST50 for a week now (returned the first because of buzzing, this set is no different) and noticed the plainbow-effect the first time two days ago. It's really weird though, I've seen about 3 movies without problems, and now I see the plainbows appearing all the time! The effect is very hard to 'unsee', especially when I'm watching anything with subtitles (I've already tried to make the subtitles less bright white). I'm trying to force myself to relax when watching the screen, and not make my eyes jump too much over the image (who would have thought this was necessary when watching television eek.gif). Oh and more (bias-)lighting in the room.

I've been looking at reducing the contrast-setting to reduce the effect, but maybe what 'thepiecesfit' says is a better idea: tweak the color temperature. It's a shame though, because this is messing up ideal picture settings. And only to reduce some irritating by-product of the characteristics of plasma technology mad.gif

How did you guys fare after a while, has it gotten any better for you?
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post #832 of 883 Old 11-20-2012, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ssspark View Post

Just keeping this thread alive; I've had my second P50ST50 for a week now (returned the first because of buzzing, this set is no different) and noticed the plainbow-effect the first time two days ago. It's really weird though, I've seen about 3 movies without problems, and now I see the plainbows appearing all the time! The effect is very hard to 'unsee', especially when I'm watching anything with subtitles (I've already tried to make the subtitles less bright white). I'm trying to force myself to relax when watching the screen, and not make my eyes jump too much over the image (who would have thought this was necessary when watching television eek.gif). Oh and more (bias-)lighting in the room.
I've been looking at reducing the contrast-setting to reduce the effect, but maybe what 'thepiecesfit' says is a better idea: tweak the color temperature. It's a shame though, because this is messing up ideal picture settings. And only to reduce some irritating by-product of the characteristics of plasma technology mad.gif
How did you guys fare after a while, has it gotten any better for you?

I could not return mine so i decided to deal with it. You are right it really depends on the movie. If the director used less high key lighting and there is detail in the highlights then you will see less. A dark show or movie that has bright highlights in juxtaposition with dark shadows will show the flashing. For me its mostly yellow and blue. I suppose I got used to it , it doesnt drive me as crazy anymore unless I'm looking for it.

I have since then gone back to Best Buy to demo the other plasmas and I'll tell you this. Only the panasonic 2012 seem to have the flashing problem really bad. Although I have seen it watching dark knight on a Kuro demo set. Again however, it was not as apparent as the panasonic.

For the money, I say learn to deal with it. Its 1000 bux and still better than any LED out there at a comparable price. Youd have to spend 2500 easy for the same ballpark quality black levels. My only hope is Super Amoled Displays come soon as they do not have any of these problems, minus some image retention.
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post #833 of 883 Old 11-20-2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by thepiecesfit View Post

I could not return mine so i decided to deal with it. You are right it really depends on the movie. If the director used less high key lighting and there is detail in the highlights then you will see less. A dark show or movie that has bright highlights in juxtaposition with dark shadows will show the flashing. For me its mostly yellow and blue. I suppose I got used to it , it doesnt drive me as crazy anymore unless I'm looking for it.
I have since then gone back to Best Buy to demo the other plasmas and I'll tell you this. Only the panasonic 2012 seem to have the flashing problem really bad. Although I have seen it watching dark knight on a Kuro demo set. Again however, it was not as apparent as the panasonic.
For the money, I say learn to deal with it. Its 1000 bux and still better than any LED out there at a comparable price. Youd have to spend 2500 easy for the same ballpark quality black levels. My only hope is Super Amoled Displays come soon as they do not have any of these problems, minus some image retention.

You're right about the price/quality ratio, it's really quite amazing on the ST50. However, the rainbows I'm seeing are mostly when my eyes refocus on a different part of the image, not so much when content on the screen moves quickly. It's most visible when focussing left-right-left-right on a screen displaying for example a vertical white line. See the following video (pause on the 6s mark) to see the effect in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6tPTZkdyVo (the image on the screen is stationary, while the camera quickly pans left/right; simulating what happens when my eyes refocus on a different part of the screen).
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post #834 of 883 Old 11-20-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ssspark View Post

You're right about the price/quality ratio, it's really quite amazing on the ST50. However, the rainbows I'm seeing are mostly when my eyes refocus on a different part of the image, not so much when content on the screen moves quickly. It's most visible when focussing left-right-left-right on a screen displaying for example a vertical white line. See the following video (pause on the 6s mark) to see the effect in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6tPTZkdyVo (the image on the screen is stationary, while the camera quickly pans left/right; simulating what happens when my eyes refocus on a different part of the screen).

Yeah and its exactly what I see. Try to watch Sin City theres actually scenes where you can see phosphor trails from the huge black and white contrast. Outside of flashing. Its really seizure enducing.

If you want to try some interesting observation. Grab a 3d movie. For some reason this does not happen in 3d at all smile.gif
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post #835 of 883 Old 12-14-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by thepiecesfit View Post

Yeah and its exactly what I see. Try to watch Sin City theres actually scenes where you can see phosphor trails from the huge black and white contrast. Outside of flashing. Its really seizure enducing.
If you want to try some interesting observation. Grab a 3d movie. For some reason this does not happen in 3d at all smile.gif

Interesting. I just bought Prometheus collectors edition because I liked the cover art better than the 2D version haha. I watched it in 2D last night and didn't notice much rainbow effect, maybe because the scenes are overly dark in general (or maybe my eyes are adjusting to my ST50).

Even though I think 3D is lame and gimmicky, someday I'll have to try the 3D disc to see if I notice the rainbow effect.

I definitely noticed rainbows viewing From Russia With Love and other Blu-rays I rented the past few weeks. Rescue Me TV series streaming on Netflix. On PS3 and Panasonic menus. Hopefully not noticeable when watching Blade Runner tonight.

If I'm guaranteed to see this rainbow phenomenon on every plasma panel, Are there PQ settings (contrast, gamma, etc) worth sacrificing to reduce the rainbows?
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post #836 of 883 Old 01-23-2013, 08:34 PM
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Sure is refreshing to see a few people have experienced what I am experiencing. I also found the Panny to be the worst even though they are regarded I think as the best plasmas out there right now. I got a stellar deal on the 60" Samsung (PN60E530) and the PQ is amazing. Some high quality HD movies, especially animation, have almost a 3D feel they are so good. I have only had it a couple of days and have been fretting about returning it or not, but a similar set in LED isnt even in the same ballpark for price. So, it is looking like I will keep it. That being said, I would also like to know if there are any settings anyone has found to be helpful in minimizing the phenomenon? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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post #837 of 883 Old 01-24-2013, 12:13 AM
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For a tiny tiny improvement you could try Changing to coolest color temperature and reducing white balance settings as much as possible, but that requires recalibrating all the colors again. I reduced mine and it made a tiny improvement.I stll get rainbows on some shows( mostly sd sports) when the camera and things are moving around on the screen.Maybe the samsung 550 plasma is improved in rainbow reduction.
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post #838 of 883 Old 01-26-2013, 08:47 AM
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If you think that is bad, put in Sin City - black and white movies are the WORST if you are sensitive to the "rainbow effect" like me.

I went through 2 Pioneer Plasmas before I had to purchase an LED TV to not see rainbows all the time.
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post #839 of 883 Old 08-08-2013, 09:03 PM
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Sorry to bump this, but from what I've read, some users have commented that this effect diminishes over time. Is this due to the panel aging, or is it just that people have gotten used to it?
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post #840 of 883 Old 08-11-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Sorry to bump this, but from what I've read, some users have commented that this effect diminishes over time. Is this due to the panel aging, or is it just that people have gotten used to it?

A combination of both. You get used to it over time and it diminishes as the panel ages. Newer sets have much less of this effect due to improved tech, the push for 3D was a big help.

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