It's official. I see a rainbow-like effect on every plasma. - Page 29 - AVS Forum
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post #841 of 883 Old 08-19-2013, 04:48 PM
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I've found myself noticing the effect a little less, but at times it's a little jarring (say, a shot of someone talking with a bright sky in the background). It's almost kind just a harsh brightness that doesn't jive well with surrounding darker images (or noticeable in something like Dark Knight in a mostly dark scene with some light objects that scroll quickly). I'll give everyone the benefit of the doubt that this will be a non issue in the coming months. The image otherwise is BEAUFTIFUL. I have to put in pretty specific content to notice any issues (somehow like The Unfinished Swan, a mostly black and white game on PS3).

Edit: Another user used this term and I think it kind of fits what I'm seeing. It like the set is too "phosphorous" right now, like the whites are too hot or something and can look kind of pulsing if you stare into them. He also said that's what his panel looked like out of the box but has since aged like a fine wine. Hopefully I'm looking at the same thing with my TV.

I also played some Rayman Origins on my PC monitor yesterday. Any blur or dithering I see on the plasma is nothing compared to the monitor (5ms response time I think). And I think it might only get a little better as any phosphor trailing becomes less of an issue.
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post #842 of 883 Old 09-01-2013, 09:51 PM
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I've seen two issues with my Panasonic ST60. First, I occasionally see rainbows. It's funny, because I'm very sensitive to refresh rates, and that's part of the reason why I chose plasma. Now that I know more about how plasma refresh rates actually wok, I'm not surprised that I'm seeing "rainbows." It's actually the subpixel array I'm seeing, and when I tend to see it is during the flash of the screen just as I glance away from it.

The other effect I've seen I'm not entirely sure about. It's either color bleed or line smudging or something. I tend to see this during scenes with windows with horizontal blinds and someone standing next to them. I can see the blinds across their face. I haven't figured out what's causing this, but it's the same effect that I thing causes some other discoloration I've seen on faces at times, it's bleeding over from other parts of the scene. I've also seen it on my Apple TV when I'm scrolling through content ... the outline of the selector on the right will be a shadow that moves across the cover on the left.

Not sure if these are things I should just learn to deal with, but so far, I really only notice either when I go looking for them.
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post #843 of 883 Old 09-20-2013, 12:32 AM
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I have to admit that at almost 300 hours of use, the flashin/rainbowing is still a little offensive in high contrast scenes.

Can anyone who said this goes away over time verify how many hours it took? If I get to 500 hours and I'm still seeing it a lot, I'm thinking of getting I'm touch with Panasonic to see if maybe something is happening with my plasma that makes phosphor trailing more apparent (maybe slow phosphors or something). I'll keep pumping out slides on the thing when I'm not using it to help speed things up.

Is there any danger in running slides on panel brightness "High"? Will that cause a problem or could it just age the phosphors more quickly? If I do this, would I want to keep slides on short or normal intervals maybe?

Edit: and is there any explanation as to why I can't see this effect on my parents' plasma at all? I can see normal phosphor trailing, sure, but white objects don't seem to induce any sort of flashing or anything. I tried inducing the effect on the TV downstairs at night and couldn't get it to kick in at all. Is it merely age? Some people seem to think it dies down a bit over time, while some people say that it's just in people's heads.
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post #844 of 883 Old 10-06-2013, 02:32 PM
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Include me in for this, zt60 guessing about 200 hours of use, maybe more, by now. Switched to higher contrast settings 2 or 3 weeks back (from Cinema THX) and have had a hard time when watching black and white films in particular, especially ones with subtitles. But noticed it as well in color films, when bright white areas are being displayed. Anyway just went back to Cinema THX for the time being. And will be reading this thread shortly (skimming last few posts, hope it is something that will go away with aging...)
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post #845 of 883 Old 10-16-2013, 12:52 AM
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It's a curse!!!
I just bought my first plasma.. panasonic vt60!!! Suppose to be one of the best pictures available and boom!
I see the rainbow effect...

Sin City on blu ray it's unwatchable for me... as all other black and white movies...

It's horrible I just spent all this money and when I was doing research on the pros and cons of plasma not one single article mentioned this!!!

Apparently only abut 10% of people will experience this, but still they should mention that a lot f people are sensitive to the "phosphor lag"

Every single person in my house notice this.

I'm definitely not buying a new set for at least another 3 years so I'm stuck watching psychedelic visuals!!!

For those of you that can't see this effect... you are lucky people.
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post #846 of 883 Old 10-16-2013, 06:16 AM
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How many hours on it? Have you let the phosphorus to settle?
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post #847 of 883 Old 10-16-2013, 07:21 AM
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OH, could be color-blindness.
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post #848 of 883 Old 10-16-2013, 01:27 PM
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Not color blindness, more like color sensitivity!!!

My set has only been on for a few hours... Maybe 60
But I heard it doesn't really go away for those people sensitive to it... If it reduces after the phosphors have settled I will be stoked
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post #849 of 883 Old 10-16-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Angel View Post

Not color blindness, more like color sensitivity!!!

My set has only been on for a few hours... Maybe 60
But I heard it doesn't really go away for those people sensitive to it... If it reduces after the phosphors have settled I will be stoked

I saw the rainbow effect when I initially got my Pioneer kuro but it went away, not sure i got used to it or the it actually went away. I currently have a Panasonic 65VT60 and do not see it. I am planning on watching Sincity on bluray, sitting atop of my media center right now.

Edit: I did a 100 hour break in with slides on my Panasonic.
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post #850 of 883 Old 10-16-2013, 05:32 PM
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I have a ST50 for well over a year now. The rainbow flashes dont go away my wife and I both see them. Most content you dont notice except of scenes with extreme contast. Such as a dark cave with torches. Sin city is the absolute worst. I gave up trying to watch that movie. I still dont regret getting it because of the inky blacks. Using D-nice settings with the contrast at 76 brightness 56 seems to be the sweet spot.
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post #851 of 883 Old 10-16-2013, 07:54 PM
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I had an "effect" on my vt65 that exhibited a pink and green aura to certain circumstances, particularly shadow facets on the face. Maybe ask Chad about this, because he calibrated it out of my set. Yay!
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post #852 of 883 Old 10-17-2013, 05:25 AM
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Just when I decide to go to Plasma over LCD/LED because of better overall picture quality I see this thread.. confused.gif

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post #853 of 883 Old 10-17-2013, 05:43 AM
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Have owned many plasmas and have never seen it, I know some folks are sensitive to it but I think most people are not.

65VT60(Calibrated by Chad B)
55ST60(Calibrated by Chunon)
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Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast/I1Pro/I1D3
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post #854 of 883 Old 10-17-2013, 05:46 AM
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I need to go to BB and take a gander and see if I see it I guess. I don't see it mentioned at all in reviews.

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post #855 of 883 Old 10-17-2013, 08:09 AM
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I see this too, but only under certain situations.

If there's a high contrast scene... Let's say lights in a dark environment. If I move my eyes left or right, I see the rainbow.

It's only on the high contrast scenes with very bright objects next to very dark ones, and only when I shift my eyes. I see flashes in the shape of the bright object that are different colors.

I don't understand the physics either, but I can say the OP isn't imagining things. I still see it worse on some DLPs, though.

I also notice a flickering on bright scenes, which may be a bit more common. I assume it's just the dithering on the gradients? For instance, a very bright sky, only portions of it are flickery.

It's not a big enough deal for me to get a different TV. A vast majority of content doesn't bother me. But when I see it, it is distracting. Getting an LCD to avoid it isn't worth losing the amazing black.
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post #856 of 883 Old 11-22-2013, 01:25 PM
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I am also sensitive to the plainbow effect. I would add that at least on the Plasmas I've seen, the issue is most problematic in dark scenes with LOW or HOMOGENEOUS COLOR SATURATION, especially with a lot of camera movement. My theory on Sin City is that the effect is so noticeable not because of the contrast so much, but because it's mostly black and white, and there's a lot of camera movement. I notice it worst in The Fellowship of the Ring at the beginning of the battle in the Mines Moria, where they fight the cave troll. The scene is dim, punchy, mostly blue, and the camera moves all over like crazy. Blue and yellow ghosts trail everything in that scene.

Black and white movies are great tests. Obviously, there should be no blue or yellow in a colorless movie; I can't watch a b&w movie on a plasma; it's too distracting. BTW, I've owned a Visio plasma and a Samsung Plasma, but I've seen the effect elsewhere, too.
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post #857 of 883 Old 11-22-2013, 04:32 PM
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I bought the Panasonic ST60 about a month ago and from the second I turned it on I noticed rainbows. I see them when I look away from the display quickly. It does not really bother me, it's just strange.

!
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post #858 of 883 Old 11-22-2013, 10:42 PM
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I am seeing the same effect on my ST60 as well. Is there any way to cut down on this red hue?
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post #859 of 883 Old 12-19-2013, 03:01 PM
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Just wanted to get my experience on the record. I bought a Panasonic 65st60 just over a week ago. I noticed the rainbow effect right away. I've got 35 hours on the set at this point. For me it's very much a rainbow (as opposed to green/yellow). I see all three colors clear as day when my eyes move over the screen, and a bit less frequently from on-screen motion. Although I see it worse on areas of high contrast, I see it everywhere, including paused images. It's bugging me a lot, but I can sense it's very much psychological. What I mean is, as soon as I start thinking about it, I notice it. If I'm not thinking about it, I notice it less. This gives me hope that it will "go away" as others have reported. However, I may visit some stores to take a look at their floor models to see if the effect shows itself. If it's considerably less on other plasma models, I may consider exchanging. But it'll make me tremendously sad, as I absolutely adore the picture on this set in all other regards.
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post #860 of 883 Old 12-19-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caiman View Post

Just wanted to get my experience on the record. I bought a Panasonic 65st60 just over a week ago. I noticed the rainbow effect right away. I've got 35 hours on the set at this point. For me it's very much a rainbow (as opposed to green/yellow). I see all three colors clear as day when my eyes move over the screen, and a bit less frequently from on-screen motion. Although I see it worse on areas of high contrast, I see it everywhere, including paused images. It's bugging me a lot, but I can sense it's very much psychological. What I mean is, as soon as I start thinking about it, I notice it. If I'm not thinking about it, I notice it less. This gives me hope that it will "go away" as others have reported. However, I may visit some stores to take a look at their floor models to see if the effect shows itself. If it's considerably less on other plasma models, I may consider exchanging. But it'll make me tremendously sad, as I absolutely adore the picture on this set in all other regards.

Make sure ECO mode is set to standard, and not to power save. When I set ECO standard at least for me everything I seen went away. The set became much brighter and white back grounds became more uniform.
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post #861 of 883 Old 12-19-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jp0213x View Post

Make sure ECO mode is set to standard, and not to power save. When I set ECO standard at least for me everything I seen went away. The set became much brighter and white back grounds became more uniform.

ECO is off.
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post #862 of 883 Old 12-19-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by caiman View Post

ECO is off.

Under setup, Eco navigation, power save. Make sure its set to standard.
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post #863 of 883 Old 12-19-2013, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caiman View Post

I may visit some stores to take a look at their floor models to see if the effect shows itself. If it's considerably less on other plasma models, I may consider exchanging. But it'll make me tremendously sad, as I absolutely adore the picture on this set in all other regards.

FWIW, as I wrote a few days ago, "I've never been able to see rainbows in a showroom. It's a combination of lighting, settings, and source material. You could try bringing in some problem material on a thumb drive, ask for a remote control, and at the least, choose a standard mode with the Color Temperature at Warm 2, but who wants to explain all that to a salesman who just looked at you like you're nuts when you asked about plasmas buzzing?" And I know someone who experienced the issue on an ST60 or S60 tried a Samsung 5500, and he found it was no better. Don't know about the 8500.
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post #864 of 883 Old 12-20-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jp0213x View Post

Under setup, Eco navigation, power save. Make sure its set to standard.

Yes, it's set to Standard. Doesn't help the problem.
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post #865 of 883 Old 12-20-2013, 08:55 PM
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I had it for a few days when I got my first plasma in 2012. Only lasted a few day. I was about to return it when my eye got used to it.no more rainbow effect
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post #866 of 883 Old 12-23-2013, 08:15 AM
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I've come to a realization. The phenomenon, at least what I'm seeing, is definitely NOT phosphor lag, but rather an optical effect of my eyes (persistence of vision, I believe). I'm sure of this because if there's a bright object at the very edge of the screen, the rainbow flash will actually appear on the bezel of the TV, not on the screen itself.
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post #867 of 883 Old 12-23-2013, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caiman View Post

I've come to a realization. The phenomenon, at least what I'm seeing, is definitely NOT phosphor lag, but rather an optical effect of my eyes (persistence of vision, I believe). I'm sure of this because if there's a bright object at the very edge of the screen, the rainbow flash will actually appear on the bezel of the TV, not on the screen itself.

If you're seeing it on static images when you move your eyes, and you're not seeing trails when objects move, clearly it isn't what people ususally mean by "phosphor lag" or "phosphor trails". I've noted that timing your blinking just right as you move your eyes can reduce the effect, so yeah, it's definitely something about the plasma interacting with persistence of vision, because blinking reduces the latter. Whatever the cause, it is something unique to plasmas (well, the two I have experience with anyway, the 50ST60 and 50S60), because I never saw this with CRTs or LCDs. For me, it is colors with red in them that most cause the problem (whites, yellows, skin tones, etc), and I can minimize the effect by using a cool color temp and reducing contrast, which sadly ruins the PQ.
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post #868 of 883 Old 12-23-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

If you're seeing it on static images when you move your eyes, and you're not seeing trails when objects move, clearly it isn't what people ususally mean by "phosphor lag" or "phosphor trails". I've noted that timing your blinking just right as you move your eyes can reduce the effect, so yeah, it's definitely something about the plasma interacting with persistence of vision, because blinking reduces the latter. Whatever the cause, it is something unique to plasmas (well, the two I have experience with anyway, the 50ST60 and 50S60), because I never saw this with CRTs or LCDs. For me, it is colors with red in them that most cause the problem (whites, yellows, skin tones, etc), and I can minimize the effect by using a cool color temp and reducing contrast, which sadly ruins the PQ.

Sawfish, you may have already answered this in here or another thread, so I apologize if I'm making you repeat yourself, but: have you noticed the problem to diminish over time?
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post #869 of 883 Old 12-23-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caiman View Post

Sawfish, you may have already answered this in here or another thread, so I apologize if I'm making you repeat yourself, but: have you noticed the problem to diminish over time?

Hard to say. Just when I think I'm noticing it less, I watch an episode of Boardwalk Empire or something, and I'm seeing it pretty frequently. One of my black level test clips has it terribly, and I always see it there. It's from American Horror Story S02E11, and three women in dark coats are talking to one another inside a white mausoleum. It's useful for making out the buttons and other details in their coats, but the white floor and walls making up the background and appearing between the ladies, along with skin tones against the black coats, make up a worst case scenario, especially since I'm deliberately looking back and forth at the blacks.

The good news is, it's still a pretty rare problem averaged over all my viewing, so it isn't quite a dealbreaker for me.
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post #870 of 883 Old 12-29-2013, 12:32 AM
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I have a TC-P50S2 since 2010. My first plasma. Ever since powering it up I've seen the phosphor trails.

If some people see it, it's there. Don't dismiss the phosphor lag. Just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. For the fact that it DOES exist reduces the quality of ALL display technology that has this problem, IMO. Me, I love the plasma technology theory. But the FACT that it's not displaying images in a PURE fashion really discourages me from recommending plasma technology to anyone. I don't even recommend this to family.

So if you can't see the problem, now YOUR vision needs to be examined. What exactly are YOU seeing? How can YOU see a clear and precise image flowing across the screen when in FACT it's not really cleanly moving across the screen. YOUR eyes are really the problem. You shouldn't condemn us who see it how it is! FLAWED!

This really sticks out with lower quality content. Especially when I watched Sanctuary. It seems more prevalent in 720p or lower quality. 1080i/p content seems hard to find the issue. So it seems, of course, it's something with the timing of the phosphors. Higher content needs faster phosphors. Lower content reduces the display/flicker/Hz/phosphors.

If you want a test DVD to take to stores to see their displays, find a video with a white box that moves left to right. That's it, that's all you need. A white box that moves left to right. Follow your eyes on the box, and you'll see the phosphor lag. My wife says she doesn't see this issue. But when I played a video and told her to watch the box as it moves side to side, she saw it. Maybe that's the wife-factor on HD TV displays? :/

I go to my brother's house who has an LCD display, and his screen just displays better. Movement is more clear, more fluid/sharp. Of course there's no phosphor lag which makes his display better. As long as he doesn't enable that "feature" 240Hz crap that makes it look like a soap opera.

So remember, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there!

phosphor.gif
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