NEC new plasma thread!!! - 42xr4, 50xr5, 61xr4 - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4648 Old 01-07-2006, 08:29 PM
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Yah the 3 yr over the 1 yr is nice but I am praying that if it doesnt break in the first year it probably wont ever.

23 yrs old and a slave to the technology revolution.
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post #272 of 4648 Old 01-07-2006, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewsky View Post

No I have this is where I am seeing the price difference. I cant say the exact price but is is about a seven hundred jr bacon cheeseburger price difference.

That's what I found to be the difference also. If you throw in the price difference of the stand you can add another $100, or so. Even with the added cost of an HDMI blade the Panny is a better deal. The 50XR5 looks pretty nice, but all else being relatively equal ...
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post #273 of 4648 Old 01-07-2006, 08:39 PM
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I looked at the photos of this model on the NEC website and I could not see where the HDMI inputs are. The specs say it has two HDMI inputs but I can't physically see them among all the other in/outputs. Thanks.
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post #274 of 4648 Old 01-07-2006, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewsky View Post

Yah the 3 yr over the 1 yr is nice but I am praying that if it doesnt break in the first year it probably wont ever.

I hope your prayers come true .
I have had bad expericence with my apple laptop in 2nd year . That wasn't pleasant .
Would recommend a plan which would add another 300-400 bucks .
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post #275 of 4648 Old 01-07-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essogas View Post

I looked at the photos of this model on the NEC website and I could not see where the HDMI inputs are. The specs say it has two HDMI inputs but I can't physically see them among all the other in/outputs. Thanks.


On the 50 inch model they are lowermost input on the input panel. Please check page 7 of this thread for picture.
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post #276 of 4648 Old 01-07-2006, 08:52 PM
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post #277 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewsky View Post

No I have this is where I am seeing the price difference. I cant say the exact price but is is about a seven hundred jr bacon cheeseburger price difference.

With everything being equal (adding two HDMI/DVI blades to the Panny), and assuming a pedestal stand for each (the nice all-aluminum NEC one), the difference is actually around 300 of those jr cheeseburgers. Considering that you'd have to pay for an extended warranty on the panny to get it out to 3 years like the NEC, the NEC then actually becomes a better value. You would still have to deal with carry-in warranty for the first year on the panny as well.

Go ahead and get the panny if you want, but I wouldn't agree with your value assessment.
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post #278 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 07:00 AM
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Yes with the 3 yr warranty the price would be similar but Say i felt warranties are a waste of money and a way for companies to make 100% profit especially the ones they sell at circuit city and best buy then I would rather save the 300 burgers and treat myself to an hd dvd player when they come out.

23 yrs old and a slave to the technology revolution.
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post #279 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 07:04 AM
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I am quite certain that the majority of those third party guaranty plans are a great rip-off. I am also quite convinced that purchasing based upon warranty is a bad starategy to begin with.
Just my opinion.
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post #280 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 07:34 AM
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I don't have stake in the game (yet), but if the warranty length isn't a value proposition then there's another way to bridge that burger gap: the NEC XM5. These commerical models are closer in price to the Pannys. The XM5 input packages are somewhat inferior to the consumer XR5s, but if you can live with just one digital input (DVI-HDCP) for a while maybe 300 burgers will buy a good digital-switching A/V receiver in a year's time.
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post #281 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 07:58 AM
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All I really wanted to say was if I had the money yes I would probably get the nec it looks awesome but for me who cannot afford the little bit extra the panny works great and compares great in the image quality category. Didnt want to ruffle anyones feathers

23 yrs old and a slave to the technology revolution.
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post #282 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 08:18 AM
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No worries - Panasonic or NEC. These are both top-notch brands.

Anybody know if the XM5 commerical models have any input replacement/expandability? The Panny commercial units have their blades which provide some degree of future-proofing. I understand w/ the Pioneer commercial models you can replace the input panel (though at significant expense). Any similar upgradability for the XM5s?
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post #283 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 08:59 AM
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As I am in the market for a 50 inch plasma perhaps Chris or someone who knows could comment on the "crystal clear panel drive" and "bonded color filter" mentioned in the NEC 42 inch spec release. Why is the 42 the only panel with these features? Why does the 50 have an R5 designation?

Could any owners comment on the image retention issue. I am very concerned with posts like these as I could never be happy worrying about retention after watching a few minutes of something on a brand new plasma.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

But what's freaking me out is i have only been considering plasmas because i hate the projected look of a RPTV or DLP. I have been chastising newbies for refusing to buy plasmas because of the burn-in issue even though they preferred the PQ of the plasma. I've been telling them that Panasonic says that it is equal to CRT levels as far as the possibility of burn in. I've been telling myself, after much research, that unless someone did something really stupid like leave a menu on all night there was no need to worry as long as the contrast was turned down etc. Just simple common sense. Now i hear that a brand new NEC plasma, a reference panel from one of the oldest and most respected companies in the world( of plasma TV's) did show a little image retention after just a few minutes of normal TV watching. I can't live with that, i watch primarilly premium cable, cable news, some DVD's, and some PC usage with an occasional PC game, obviously upgrading to Comcast HD. Once again, what is freaking me out is not that a plasma did show some retention, what is freaking me out is it happened after a few minutes which is way below the threshold of normal viewing. When i would read the various owners manuals they all would say something like " try not to leave still images, logos, etc on screen for certain length of time".....but a few minutes? How can someone enjoy watching one half hour show in its entirety without this baggage hanging over your head? Perhaps that 48 hour torture test was a misprint and meant 48 minutes? I do understand that image retention can be reversed, but that's not the point, the point being that it affects your viewing habits which i didn't want. If there's breaking news on CNN, i don't want to have to hesitate on the remote.

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post #284 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

I am quite certain that the majority of those third party guaranty plans are a great rip-off. I am also quite convinced that purchasing based upon warranty is a bad starategy to begin with.
Just my opinion.

I see your point with the first statement. Extended warranties are cash cows for the seller. Some like to have the peace of mind, though.

The second part I don't agree with. A manufacturer who offers an extended warranty as standard with their product demonstrates confidence that the product is reliable. Fujitsu and NEC have the only 3 year manufacturer warranties on pdp's that I'm aware of. Both of these companies have excellent reputations for reliability as well.
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post #285 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post

with Menu on for approximately 5-7 minutes , i have not seen image retention.
Have watched 5 or so movies so far . A better test would be watching a widescreen movie followed by full length . I did that yesterday .
The horizontal bar or line should retain as it is image is stationary for 3 hours . I have not noticed that so far , that 's all i can say in my brief interaction with this new toy .

Thanks Big Mac,

Can others confirm that there is no image retention? cpcat, could you confirm?
Also, are you all happy with your black levels?

Thanks!
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post #286 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fax View Post

No worries - Panasonic or NEC. These are both top-notch brands.

Anybody know if the XM5 commerical models have any input replacement/expandability? The Panny commercial units have their blades which provide some degree of future-proofing. I understand w/ the Pioneer commercial models you can replace the input panel (though at significant expense). Any similar upgradability for the XM5s?

NEC PX-50XM5 INFO HERE

As far as expendability, None. Comes with Composite, S-video, Component, Component RGB , VGA, and 1 DVI input with HDPC.
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post #287 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarc View Post

Thanks Big Mac,

Can others confirm that there is no image retention? cpcat, could you confirm?
Also, are you all happy with your black levels?

Thanks!

Black levels are on par or even superior to my TH-50PX50U. Shadow detail is about equivalent.

No problems with image retention. Ghosting or after-imaging is occasionally visible but promptly dissappears with normal viewing. I also saw this with the TH-50PX50U and it became a non-issue after around 50 hours or so on the panel. Can't say whether that will happen with the 50XR5 yet, but I suspect it will.

No matter what plasma you go with, you'll need to practice some burn-in precautions especially in the first 100 hours or so.

See http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...0-%20FINAL.pdf

and
http://www.fcw.com/vendorsolutions/panasonicplasma.pdf
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post #288 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 12:40 PM
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Talking of blacks .
I watched Madagascar last nite. The black on the penguins back was probably the darkest black , i have ever seen.Like black black . As black as the panel at the bottom of this forum, where cleveland plasma is hosted.
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post #289 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 12:45 PM
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Do you keep your plasma's on or standby mode , when you are away from TV ?.
I assume DVD player is shut off of course cause of burn in.
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post #290 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 12:45 PM
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I have exactly 48" in width to place a 50" plasma. The NEC is 48.3" in width. With only 0.3" overhang, I am contemplating having the front edge of the panel sit outside my entertainment center. I'm not sure how I would go about mounting it, given that the stand has to protrude in front of the panel. How does the stand mount to the panel? Is what I'm thinking about feasible?
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post #291 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 12:46 PM
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No stand here .
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post #292 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnatest View Post

I have exactly 48" in width to place a 50" plasma. The NEC is 48.3" in width. With only 0.3" overhang, I am contemplating having the front edge of the panel sit outside my entertainment center. I'm not sure how I would go about mounting it, given that the stand has to protrude in front of the panel. How does the stand mount to the panel? Is what I'm thinking about feasible?

How handy are you? A cheaper route would be install a piece of plywood the proper distance back in the entertainment system and use a wall mount. A wall mount is $125 less than the stand.
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post #293 of 4648 Old 01-08-2006, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

This holds for the 50 and 61 inch models. The 42 inch model has the video inputs on the bottom. I like the inputs on the side, actually. They are easier to access but yet still inset from the edge enough to hide the connections.

On a side note, I've made a big change with my 50XR5. I took the external scaler out of the loop entirely. Guess what? The picture is better overall!!
Better blacks, color, contrast. Overall, a richer, more natural image but with no loss in perceived resolution and I think even *less* noise/artifacting. This is one nice set. Thanks to mnfnet for spurring me on to look at the AVIA grey ramps. Once I started playing around with the grey scale adjustments, I found I could actually get a nice smooth ramp with the scaler in bypass mode while I still had a few bands with the scaler in the loop.

Here are the results of my adjustments so far. I'm using HDMI/DVI inputs:

Contrast 52
Brt 36
Color 32
Tint 32
Color temp Mid-low with below adjustments
* GR 34
* GG 27
* GB 30
* BR 40
* BG 40
* BB 40
Gamma 2.2
Pedestal 0
Picture mode Theater 1

.


cpcat

Do you believe the fact that contrast should be less than 50 % in the initial 100 hrs ?
Your contrast is set at 52 . Max contrast is around 75 so you are around 65 -70 % with 52.
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post #294 of 4648 Old 01-09-2006, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post

cpcat

Do you believe the fact that contrast should be less than 50 % in the initial 100 hrs ?
Your contrast is set at 52 . Max contrast is around 75 so you are around 65 -70 % with 52.

I believe it, but the contrast that low just isn't enjoyable for me. I watch almost exclusively HD anyway so 4:3 material is limited to commercials. Also, the NEC allows you to stretch 4:3 HD material (the panny doesn't allow this, worth mentioning) so there's really no need for leaving pillar bars on the screen for any length of time in the break-in period. I plan to watch only widescreen DVD's with 1.85:1 or 1.78:1 AR during the first 100 hours as well. You could also zoom to get rid of black bars but I hate doing that. Finally, for particularly aggravating logos (like Noggin for ex.), I run the screen wiper. The kids don't seem to mind a bit.

I have moved my contrast down to 48, though. I've found it looks a little clearer with sports and I prefer it.

Also, "low tone" set to 1 seems to improve the black levels even further if you want to give that a try.

BTW, those settings you refer to are my initial settings. I had a more recent post with revised settings which I prefer. The only thing I've changed significantly since the more recent post is backing contrast down to 48 and "low tone " to 1.
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post #295 of 4648 Old 01-09-2006, 07:05 AM
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Can someone explain about the screen wiper - what it does and when (how often) it should be run?
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post #296 of 4648 Old 01-09-2006, 07:27 AM
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Lisa,

The screen wiper is a bright white vertical bar about 1-2" thick that scrolls from the left to right of the screen every couple of minutes. It can be turned on or off from the pdp saver menu. It is not necessary to run, but some feel it is a nice precaution to run once in a while during the breakin period.
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post #297 of 4648 Old 01-09-2006, 08:17 AM
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I am getting horizonial running from the bottem of my screen to the top. They are about a foot apart. VERY VERY faint. i see them only when in darken room and dark screen scenes. Color pinkish. I have a comcast HD DR box, so i suspect it is the feed. have not seen these lines when watching DVDs. what is the cause? & correction ?
db
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post #298 of 4648 Old 01-09-2006, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

I believe it, but the contrast that low just isn't enjoyable for me.
I have moved my contrast down to 48, though. I've found it looks a little clearer with sports and I prefer it.

BTW, those settings you refer to are my initial settings. I had a more recent post with revised settings which I prefer. The only thing I've changed significantly since the more recent post is backing contrast down to 48 and "low tone " to 1.

In response to cpcat's warning, where he is stipulating that the "75" setting is equal to 100% contrast and therefore suggests that the setting "52" is way over the recommended 50% limit (close to 67%), I will posit that the tv is already calibrated in percentage of contrast, so the setting "75" means 75% contrast. Therefore, the setting "52" is only a little over the 50% line. After all, the tv could never do 100% contrast and 0% contrast would correspond to a white-out (or black-out). Of course, I say this without having consulted the owner's manual; cpcat may be correct.
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post #299 of 4648 Old 01-09-2006, 11:21 AM
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If max contrast is 75, I'd assume that 50 percent or less would be 37 or less assuming you are set to 100% screen brightness in the pdp saver menu. If you go by the Panasonic whitepaper, 50 percent of max is the recc. for the first 100 hours. However, no rule is absolute and I want to enjoy my TV now. My preferred setting for contrast is around 48 which gives me the best PQ to my eye so that's where I set it. I simply fill the screen almost all the time and am being careful about high contrast logos.

I use the screen wiper just for added insurance for times (like now) where my kids are downstairs with their mother watching Noggin. It's in "stadium" mode but Noggin has an aggravating bright logo in the bottom right corner so I also have the screen wiper on. The kids don't seem to mind a bit.
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post #300 of 4648 Old 01-09-2006, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAB View Post

I am getting horizonial running from the bottem of my screen to the top. They are about a foot apart. VERY VERY faint. i see them only when in darken room and dark screen scenes. Color pinkish. I have a comcast HD DR box, so i suspect it is the feed. have not seen these lines when watching DVDs. what is the cause? & correction ?
db


Could be a ground loop. Try floating the ground with a cheater plug on the TV's power cord and see if that fixes it.

If that's the problem, you'll then have to decide if you want to continue to float the ground or try to fix the ground loop.

I'll hesitate about telling you which way to go, but I can tell you that manufacturers have been floating the ground on CRT TV's for years.
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