NEC new plasma thread!!! - 42xr4, 50xr5, 61xr4 - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 07:37 AM
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Chris,

Have you had a chance to compare the XR4 and the XR5 yet? Those two extra features... and the possible Pioneer glass 42" should make a difference in the black level. How do you see them, and how do they compare to the Panasonic counterparts?
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post #452 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 07:40 AM
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Can anyone compare any of the nec models to the panny commercial models. from what I hear noone has info on the comparision of the models. I would love to hear how the commercial pannys match up seeing how they are different from the consumer models based on the great reviews for the commercial pannies and the average reviews for the consumer versions. Comparisons plz?

23 yrs old and a slave to the technology revolution.
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post #453 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomboyter View Post


... and the possible Pioneer glass 42" should make a difference in the black level.

The new Pioneer glass supposedly improves on black levels for Pioneer, but it would only be an improvement for NEC assuming the current NEC glass gives only comparable black level performance to old Pioneer glass.

Based on what I'm seeing, this probably isn't the case, since the 50XR5 (undoubtedly NEC glass) seems to perform comparably with regards to black levels with 8th Gen Panny glass. The 8th Gen panny *might* go a little blacker if you float the blacks, but the NEC is definitely equal or even a little better than my Panny in "Cinema" mode which un-floats the blacks.
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post #454 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 10:07 AM
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But still this is fromt the point of view of a panny consumer owner is there any body that could give his/her input with regards to the commercial panny which like I said before is supposed to be much better.

23 yrs old and a slave to the technology revolution.
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post #455 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewsky View Post

But still this is fromt the point of view of a panny consumer owner is there any body that could give his/her input with regards to the commercial panny which like I said before is supposed to be much better.

I don't know where you are hearing the commercial model is much better than the consumer model. They are essentially the same in terms of performance. They use the same glass, scaler, and internal electronics. The only difference is the looks and the software where the commercial gives you more adjustment room for calibrating than the consumer model does. That is why some people say the prefer the commercial in terms of performance (simply because you can calibrate to your tastes better). As far as blacks, number of colors, the gray scale levels, etc. you are getting the same thing.
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post #456 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 10:26 AM
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OK, a few questions for the experts...
I've seen the NEC 42" advertised under a number of variations on the same model #...are they all the same? For instance PX-42XR4A and 42XR4?

Does NEC make a non-swivel stand for this TV? I don't really need the swivel because we already have a pull-out swivel tray in our tv cabinet.

Lastly, does anyone have any experience with the store brightandsleek? Just stumbled on their website and they seem to have good prices with no shipping and the few reviews I can find are positive.

Thanks
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post #457 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 10:35 AM
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LisaM,

Have you seen any image retention with the 42XR4? It seems that the 50XR5 has more propensity for image retention than the Panasonics.
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post #458 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 11:00 AM
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I've only had the 42 since Friday night but have been playing with it constantly. I have not seen any image retention at all thus far. I have had the NEC menu up several times as well as the menu from my 8300HD dvr. I also watched 2 hours of SD on USA, where the non-transparent logo was on screen most of the time. So far, so good.
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post #459 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

That's a pretty long way. I think you can get a converter that will convert the signal and send it over fiber-optic for long runs. You then convert it back at the end of the run. I have no idea how much they cost. There are also DVI boosters for extending the range of the regular DVI cable.

This seems like some pretty good info for you: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...opperFiber.php
Also see http://www.dtrovision.com/dlrp001.htm


OK, so wanna hear something strange? I took my HTPC back downstairs (still setup for 1365x768) and plugged it back into the original hdmi cable that didn't work, and you guessed it... it works perfectly. I'm scratching my head now. All i can think is that the cable wasn't plugged in properly or something...
Ahhh... finally, everything is working!

You mentioned something about a PC limit or something in the service menu... is this only for the RGB/PC connection or for HDMI as well?

Thanks,
Jeff
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post #460 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 11:32 AM
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LisaM,

Thanks. I hope this continues to hold true. I'm really struggling with the decision between the 50PHD8UK and the 42XR4. Size vs. perceived better resolution and more connectivity. I've already got a stand that will work for the 50PHD8UK. So, the cost difference is only about $200. Would the 42" be big enough at a distance of 14'?
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post #461 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaM View Post

I've only had the 42 since Friday night but have been playing with it constantly. I have not seen any image retention at all thus far. I have had the NEC menu up several times as well as the menu from my 8300HD dvr. I also watched 2 hours of SD on USA, where the non-transparent logo was on screen most of the time. So far, so good.

Lisa, could you comment on the picture quality of the SD? Thanks
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post #462 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCypher View Post

You mentioned something about a PC limit or something in the service menu... is this only for the RGB/PC connection or for HDMI as well?

Thanks,
Jeff

It seems to be for any non-ATSC resolution.
Check your PM.
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post #463 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 11:49 AM
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doopstr2, I purposely watched two hours of SD (recorded on the 8300HD dvr) over the weekend at the request of a forum member. I turned off the stretch mode from the dvr and used Stadium on the NEC to stretch the picture. I found the PQ quite acceptable and could detect no distortion when using the Stadium mode.

Magnatest: At 14 feet, I would go for the 50. I sit 8-9 feet from the 42 NEC and think it is fine but I am used to sitting 9 feet from my 55 inch Mitsubishi Diamond CRT. I even toyed with buying the 50 inch NEC for the bedroom but I don't have a wide enough space to accommodate it. If my viewing distance was 10 feet, I would have figured out how to make the 50 work.
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post #464 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8G View Post

I don't know where you are hearing the commercial model is much better than the consumer model. They are essentially the same in terms of performance. They use the same glass, scaler, and internal electronics. The only difference is the looks and the software where the commercial gives you more adjustment room for calibrating than the consumer model does. That is why some people say the prefer the commercial in terms of performance (simply because you can calibrate to your tastes better). As far as blacks, number of colors, the gray scale levels, etc. you are getting the same thing.

From all the evidence I have seen, you are likely correct.

It's hard to imagine though how the commercial model Panny's have been so revered on this forum with the sup-par scaler that's in it, especially for 720p signals. Maybe this is unique to the 8th gen. panels and was a cost-savings measure.
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post #465 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 12:20 PM
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Thats why for me it is so hard to believe that the scaler is so bad in the panny commercial plamsa because there has been so many great reviews from people who own multiple plasmas and love the pq and image on the commercial panny. Its just like one person telling you the image sucks when 100s tell you it rocks what gives.

23 yrs old and a slave to the technology revolution.
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post #466 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 12:30 PM
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N8G,

Do you know for sure that the Panasonic consumer models can do 4096 grayscale steps when fed via a digital input? I have heard conflicting views, but their own advertising seems to say that there are 2048 grayscale steps in the PX50/500. They now are advertising 3072 steps in the PX60/600 models. If the commercial panel is exactly the same as the current consumer model, then how can the PHD8UK's do the 14-bit processing on digital inputs? I have always understood that the commercial panels are where Panasonic puts their best electronics, and since the commercial models came out prior to the consumer models there was some lead time before the consumer sets would catch up.
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post #467 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 01:02 PM
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I apologize if I made it sound I was positive that I knew there is no difference between the commercial and the consumer. I should have said, I can see no evidence there is any difference between the two.

In response to the 720p scaling issue, this information has just recently come to light and I hadn't heard many complaints from either consumer or commercial users before the HT mag review said there was a problem with it. It could be that this only happens over component and most people use HDMI/DVI so they don't see it, or more likely, that most people didn't notice this so there were no complaints. So I don't think this has been even remotely settled yet as to whether this issue does or does not exist with the comsumer models. All I know is that this board is filled with people that love the consumer panny as much as the commercial panny.

As for the 2048 versus the 4096 grey step processing, you can only get the 4096 with the "upgraded" HDMI/DVI board right? So if this this is the case it is possible they didn't use the upgraded board electronics in the consumer model.

Anyway, as I said earlier, my statements should have been prefaced with that this is my opinion based on all the research I have done on both of the Panny's and all the reviews I have read in this forum other places.
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post #468 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8G View Post

I apologize if I made it sound I was positive that I knew there is no difference between the commercial and the consumer. I should have said, I can see no evidence there is any difference between the two.

In response to the 720p scaling issue, this information has just recently come to light and I hadn't heard many complaints from either consumer or commercial users before the HT mag review said there was a problem with it. It could be that this only happens over component and most people use HDMI/DVI so they don't see it, or more likely, that most people didn't notice this so there were no complaints. So I don't think this has been even remotely settled yet as to whether this issue does or does not exist with the comsumer models. All I know is that this board is filled with people that love the consumer panny as much as the commercial panny.

As for the 2048 versus the 4096 grey step processing, you can only get the 4096 with the "upgraded" HDMI/DVI board right? So if this this is the case it is possible they didn't use the upgraded board electronics in the consumer model.

Anyway, as I said earlier, my statements should have been prefaced with that this is my opinion based on all the research I have done on both of the Panny's and all the reviews I have read in this forum other places.

The Commercial models (8UK series) all have the capability of showing 4096 shades of gray on HDMI and DVI. Either blade costs about $150 +/-. Having said this, the image rendered by the component input looks excellent. You should note that the Onyx series (which is a 7th. generation panel) AND the 50PX500U and similarly labeled products (which are 8th. generation panels) are only capable of showing 2048 shades of gray according to the information available on Pansonic's web site. Also according to the literature and specs available on Panasonic's web site, the 8UK panels are capable of displaying many more other signal types than the consumer models. Clearly, the scaler in the 8UK series is different from those used in Panasonic's consumer models. In fact, the scaler is "hyped" in Panasonic's 8UK promotional literature, something that is not done - to my knowledge - in their consumer literature.

I'm sure that the NEC is an outstanding panel, but so are the Panasonic 8UK's. That's why the Panasoinic 8UK's have been reviewed so favorably and are so hard to find - especially in the 42" and 50" varieties. (As someone once said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
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post #469 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DCypher View Post

OK, so wanna hear something strange? I took my HTPC back downstairs (still setup for 1365x768) and plugged it back into the original hdmi cable that didn't work, and you guessed it... it works perfectly. I'm scratching my head now.

Jeff;

Are you using an ATI card? The Cat drivers since about 5.4 have a nasty habit of dropping the DVI signal. Also, are you using Powerstrip? If so, would you be willing to share your working configs? Either way, glad to hear you're back up and running!

Dave
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post #470 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jsf2001 View Post

Also according to the literature and specs available on Panasonic's web site, the 8UK panels are capable of displaying many more other signal types than the consumer models. Clearly, the scaler in the 8UK series is different from those used in Panasonic's consumer models. In fact, the scaler is "hyped" in Panasonic's 8UK promotional literature, something that is not done - to my knowledge - in their consumer literature.

Which makes sense they can receive many different signals because they are commercial model much more likely to be driven by a PC. I don't see how this fact makes them clearly different scalers.

They are most likely the same IMO. And the only "negative" review of the consumer panel is the recent HT mag review where he says the 720p looked softer than the 1080i on component. Not exactly a condemnation.

Anyway, we should move anymore discusion of the consumer versus commercial panny's to a new thread if we want to continue this dicussion since this thread is for the NEC's. Agreed?
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post #471 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 01:47 PM
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well.. I'd like to possibly get a NEC 61XR4, but it can't be seen anywhere, at least around me. does ANYONE have this set or have seen one and can comment? I was looking at the current Pioneer Elite 61", which is over a year old, but this is supposed to be that much better. any comments, please?
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post #472 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 02:19 PM
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so close to buying the 42xr4.

i'd love to be able to go see the damn thing! but not really feasible, even in san francisco.

if other 42" owners (besides Lisa?) could chime in, i'd be grateful.

$2k more for 1080p??? I think not! I bought nice seating instead!
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post #473 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wassy View Post

well.. I'd like to possibly get a NEC 61XR4, but it can't be seen anywhere, at least around me. does ANYONE have this set or have seen one and can comment? I was looking at the current Pioneer Elite 61", which is over a year old, but this is supposed to be that much better. any comments, please?


While the Pioneer Elite is a good panel, I don't think that anyone would suggest that it is as "current" as the new NEC 61". As the Pioneer uses NEC glass, I would think that you would be better off with the new NEC as it uses the newer generation glass, at least when compared to the present Pioneer Elite unit. Also, there has been some discussion about Pioneer purchasing NEC's plasma unit. My understanding is that Pioneer simply purchased one NEC plasma factory, but not NEC's plasma unit. So, there may not be any assurance that the new Pioneer units will continue to have the same glass as the newer NEC units.

If this was my decision to make, I'd have no hesitation in purchasing the NEC over the Pioneer.

Good luck with your purchase.
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post #474 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 02:45 PM
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It looks like there is an event in San Francisco tomorrow where you can see these new models. look at the NEC Visual Systems website.
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post #475 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by N8G View Post

They are most likely the same IMO. And the only "negative" review of the consumer panel is the recent HT mag review where he says the 720p looked softer than the 1080i on component. Not exactly a condemnation.

I noticed the 720p softness right off. It's really not subtle if you have seen it done well from another source. The problem is that so many folks out there just think "ah, it's just that 'inferior' 720p signal, look how good it is with 1080i", when in reality they can both look stunning when done properly.

Alright, I'll move on now.
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post #476 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 03:01 PM
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It looks like there is an event in San Francisco tomorrow where you can see these new models. look at the NEC Visual Systems website.

Went to the site. No details given that I could find (or did I miss something)? Can you post a link that gives details... like where it takes place?

TIA

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post #477 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 03:02 PM
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http://www.necvisualsystems.com/News...e-97f50fe7be65

No listing of location. You might have to call.
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post #478 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

I noticed the 720p softness right off. It's really not subtle if you have seen it done well from another source. The problem is that so many folks out there just think "ah, it's just that 'inferior' 720p signal, look how good it is with 1080i", when in reality they can both look stunning when done properly.

Alright, I'll move on now.

I was going to move on until I saw your post, but I have to comment that I've studied lots of competing panels and all kinds of sources (including another HDTV panel from another manufacturer in my house - a Sharp LCD which excels at 720p) and I have not noticed ANY softness at 720p on the 65ph8UK.

Now, I'll move on as well.
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post #479 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 03:49 PM
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I don't think it's open to the public, but I did find the address on the Crestron website:
Jan 17 - Jan 17, 2006
NEC Partner Showcase
Old Federal Reserve Building
San Francisco, CA

It's real tempting since I'm leaning towards getting this panel myself.
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post #480 of 4648 Old 01-16-2006, 04:38 PM
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Thanks for the info!
So, what's the maximum length of an HDMI cable? I think the installed one is about 40 ft. long....

Does HDMI accommodate long cable lengths?
Yes. HDMI technology has been designed to use standard copper cable construction at long lengths. In order to allow cable manufacturers to improve their products through the use of new technologies, HDMI specifies the required performance of a cable but does not specify a maximum cable length. Cable manufacturers are expected to sell reasonably priced copper cables at lengths of up to 15 meters. As semiconductor technology improves, even longer stretches can be reached with fiber optic cables, and with active cable technologies such as amplifiers or repeaters.


So that's around 49 feet.

More info at: http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp

.

-[ EFF ]-
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