NEC new plasma thread!!! - 42xr4, 50xr5, 61xr4 - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RoseRx View Post

Is the NEC 50XR5A glass 50% thicker, 5" vs 3.3" on the Panasonic 50PHD8UK or is someone stretching the truth?

The 61XR4 is 5 inches total thickness. Maybe this is what was being referred to . I think the 50XR5 is around 3.8. The dimensions for the various models/stands, typical mounting, etc. are available on the NEC website in the "installation guide" for each.
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post #542 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rpf717 View Post

Quick question for those of you who own this line.

Break-in period aside, how many of you would be hesitant to play a video game (or some other HTPC equivalent) for say around 4 hours for fear of burn-in?

Just turn the screen-wiper for this during the first few months if you have a concern. Also, the NEC rep told oysterhead to not hesitate about using the white screen to accelerate break-in. See his report in previous post.

I wouldn't worry about accelerating the aging of the panel, either. Like I've said previously, 55,000 hours without burn-in is better than 60,000 with it. Peace of mind is worth it too.
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post #543 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Hey folks.

I've been badgering Panasonic Canada to get me some info about the new Panasonic 1080p 65" plasmas. They talked to Japan and here's what they told me:

1. There will be an "Industrial" version of the 65" 1080p model. It will be produced in the fall.

2. The industrial model will accept 1080p/60 via it's component inputs. Panasonic is still "working on" the digital input. The Panasonic Canada rep does not expect, at this time, that model will accept 1080p via it's HDMI input. ( )

"Maybe next year" it will have 1080p input capability for HDMI.

3. It will apparently be outfitted with an optional HD/SDI input board.

That's all I have at the moment.

So is this the same thing that the new NEC's do? Accept 1080P over component? Does that mean there's no advantage to waiting for the full 1080P Panasonic over the NEC?
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post #544 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

So is this the same thing that the new NEC's do? Accept 1080P over component? Does that mean there's no advantage to waiting for the full 1080P Panasonic over the NEC?

Well, no, unless you consider that whole native 1920 x 1080 panel thing an advantage.
Blue Ray as well as native 1080i should be awesome for 1080p panels in theory. I think Blue Ray will be awesome for everyone for that matter as it will be the first pure non-compressed 1080 source many of us have ever seen (me included).

You'll pay through the nose for the first gen 1080p Panny's though. Additionally, I personally would be leary of the first generation 1080p panels as I'm sure there will be some issues.

I am cautiously optimistic that the NEC panels will accept 1080 (24p) over HDMI/DVI which should be potentially the best way to do Blue Ray if you believe the NEC scales/deinterlaces well.
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post #545 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 12:00 PM
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Thanks. I suppose it was a hypothetical question since the NEC and Pioneer panels I'm deciding between both stretch my budget. The 65" panasonic is but a distant dream.

So what does it mean to accept 1080p on analong connections only (that's what the nec does, right?) And what is its effect on my viewing experience?
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post #546 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 12:02 PM
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I'll be getting my 50xr5 today (yessss), and I will use the plasma for 25% TV, 25% Movies, 50% Games. I don't think anybody on this thread has reported their experience using their NEC with a game console, so I guess I'll share my input if anybody is interested. Though, I might wait until after 100 hrs.

Not sure if it's possible, maybe I can setup a macro on my harmony remote to do a quick white screen or screen wipe and I can just press that every now and then while playing games?
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post #547 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

So what does it mean to accept 1080p on analong connections only (that's what the nec does, right?) And what is its effect on my viewing experience?

The NEC will accept 1080 (60p) over component but not over HDMI. It may indeed accept 1080 (24p) over HDMI as well. 1080 (24p) will be the native resolution of Blue Ray so this may well be the best way to do it regardless.
The conversion to 1080 (60p) will either have to be done inside the player or inside the display. It's the same question all over again of where you believe the best processing is being performed. This same question will also apply even if the display is native 1080p.

To answer your question, though, I'm not certain there will be an advantage. 1080p input would obviate the need for deinterlacing in the display, but it may still be best to stay all digital and avoid the D/A and A/D conversion. This is why I'm hopeful 1080 (24p) will be supported via HDMI.
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post #548 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 12:43 PM
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Stupid question time - I keep hearing about floating blacks, but I am unsure what that means, especially how it relates to being able to turn them on/off with a setting on the TV. I thought I had a handle on it, but now I am not sure. This does not have anything to do with flicker, does it.
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post #549 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 12:47 PM
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Well, good news and bad news.

I called and spoke to Lumagen and found out how to set my scaler to ouput 1080 (24fps). The bad news is that the 50XR5 won't accept it over HDMI. According to Lumagen, hardly anything will right now other than Sony Qualia FP's. The good news is that you can still output 1080i from Blue Ray through HDMI and it will obviously work fine and most likely will look stellar.

This may be interesting: 1080i Blue Ray over HDMI vs. 1080p Blue Ray over component. At least we'll have the option of testing it.
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post #550 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tterral View Post

Stupid question time - I keep hearing about floating blacks, but I am unsure what that means, especially how it relates to being able to turn them on/off with a setting on the TV. I thought I had a handle on it, but now I am not sure. This does not have anything to do with flicker, does it.

No, it has nothing to do with flicker. As far as I know the only manufacturer that has this problem/feature is Panasonic. What is does is adjust the absolute black level depending on the brightness of the scene being displayed. This lets the display have darker blacks on a dark scene and lighter whites on a light scene by adjusting the black level. The problem with this is that many people notice the black levels jumping up and down depending on the scene and it can be annoying to some. Some people don't notice it though.
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post #551 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Well, good news and bad news.

I called and spoke to Lumagen and found out how to set my scaler to ouput 1080 (24fps). The bad news is that the 50XR5 won't accept it over HDMI. According to Lumagen, hardly anything will right now other than Sony Qualia FP's. The good news is that you can still output 1080i from Blue Ray through HDMI and it will obviously work fine and most likely will look stellar.

This may be interesting: 1080i Blue Ray over HDMI vs. 1080p Blue Ray over component. At least we'll have the option of testing it.

Will Blue Ray let you output component? I have heard that HD-DVD will not output anything other than HDMI due to over-diligent copyright protection. Wondering if Blue Ray will go the same route.
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post #552 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 12:57 PM
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I've heard ramblings of the same thing but according to reports from CES at least Pioneer will. Point well taken, though. It won't be long before component input will be useless I'm afraid if the copy protection demons have their way, and component 1080p output is probably only vaporware until proven otherwise.
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post #553 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 02:08 PM
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rnotley,

I'll be anxious to hear your results from your gaming. Let us know.
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post #554 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Well, good news and bad news.

I called and spoke to Lumagen and found out how to set my scaler to ouput 1080 (24fps). The bad news is that the 50XR5 won't accept it over HDMI. According to Lumagen, hardly anything will right now other than Sony Qualia FP's. The good news is that you can still output 1080i from Blue Ray through HDMI and it will obviously work fine and most likely will look stellar.

This may be interesting: 1080i Blue Ray over HDMI vs. 1080p Blue Ray over component. At least we'll have the option of testing it.

Cpcat -

Thanks for your diligence on this. I've been waiting somewhat anxiously to get the 1080p/24 HDMI answer. Bummer - sort of - I think.

While it would be great to have the panel accept a pure 1080p signal either at 24 fps or even 60 fps, there is still going to be processing inside of the 50XR5 because it's native resolution is 1365x768 and my guess (pure speculation frankly) is that the display's native refresh rate is fixed at 60hz so it would need to covert (speed up) the 24fps to 30fps to match the panels refresh rate. I may not have all of this exactly right but I'm sure you get the point.

That said, I'm wondering whether accepting 1080p via HDMI is really an issue on a panel with a native resolution of 1365x768. Since the panel actually accepts native resolution via HDMI (a huge benefit and one that only a few actually do - I understand the commercial pannys do this but I have also heard it may not really be PnP), doesn't it make more sense to get a next gen scaler that can really do full inverse telecine on a 1080i signal (and accept 1080p) and have the scaler do its magic and output the signal at 1365x768 via HDMI?

I'm currently debating the "65 Panny 8UK and the "61 NEC 61xr4. I've pretty much decided waiting for the next gen of 1080p panels is going to be a long wait, so I'd rather have fun now. This thread has renewed/peaked my interest in NEC.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Rob aka Technut
rskinner@towbes.com
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post #555 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oysterhead View Post

i thought PQ on both was top-notch.

I chose the 42" due to $$$, sitting distance, and the fact that we went from a small CRT. A 42" seems big!


What size television did you move up from and what is your viewing distance? I'm currently using a standard 27" Panasonic CRT and my viewing distance is about 14'. I used masking tape to frame in the size of the 42XR4 in our entertainment center. The size doesn't look too bad.
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post #556 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technut View Post

Cpcat -

Thanks for your diligence on this. I've been waiting somewhat anxiously to get the 1080p/24 HDMI answer. Bummer - sort of - I think.

While it would be great to have the panel accept a pure 1080p signal either at 24 fps or even 60 fps, there is still going to be processing inside of the 50XR5 because it's native resolution is 1365x768 and my guess (pure speculation frankly) is that the display's native refresh rate is fixed at 60hz so it would need to covert (speed up) the 24fps to 30fps to match the panels refresh rate. I may not have all of this exactly right but I'm sure you get the point.

As far as I know, you are correct. The panel's native resolution and requirement for 1:1 is 1365 x 768 (60p) so everything has to be converted to this for display (other than native that is ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technut View Post

That said, I'm wondering whether accepting 1080p via HDMI is really an issue on a panel with a native resolution of 1365x768. Since the panel actually accepts native resolution via HDMI (a huge benefit and one that only a few actually do - I understand the commercial pannys do this but I have also heard it may not really be PnP), doesn't it make more sense to get a next gen scaler that can really do full inverse telecine on a 1080i signal (and accept 1080p) and have the scaler do its magic and output the signal at 1365x768 via HDMI?

Certainly, this is the big advantage of native rate support, especially with true 1:1. I'm not trying to sell Lumagen (well maybe ) , but 1080 (24fps) input support has been in the works for awhile and will be downloadable free when it's ready. Since this will be the native form of Blue Ray, I'd think it would be preferrable to output native from the disc and to do the rest inside the external scaler. I'll have to confirm, but if I'm not mistaken, you can then perform 3:2 pulldown to convert to 1080 (30fps) followed by deinterlacing to 1080 (60p) and subsequent scaling to native without dropping any frames. All of this is in place now with the current gen. Lumagen except 1080 (24pfs) input support. Most likely, it is similar with the DVDO VP30 as they share the same chip but I'm speculating a bit there.

You *could* take 1080 (60p) from the player and input to the external scaler but then you'd be depending on the player to have the best processing as all the scaler would have left to do is scale 1080 (60p) to 768 (60p).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technut View Post

I'm currently debating the "65 Panny 8UK and the "61 NEC 61xr4. I've pretty much decided waiting for the next gen of 1080p panels is going to be a long wait, so I'd rather have fun now. This thread has renewed/peaked my interest in NEC.

Choices, Choices. Forgive me if I don't feel sorry for your plight.
My only concern if your plan is use of an external scaler now or in the future would be true 1:1 mapping with the Panny. I've done alot of research on this, and if you read between the lines, it seems that no one has gotten true 1:1 over DVI/HDMI on the Panny's. You should be able to look at alternating black/white H-line and V-line patterns and see true one-pixel wide rows. What I've seen reported were good looking H-line patterns but with moire patterned V-line patterns for whatever reason. I can confirm it's easy with the NEC.
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post #557 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 04:57 PM
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Well I've finally joined the fray tonight. Put a 42XR4 on order with Chris at Cleveland Plasma so with luck I will be watching Lost in HD next week.

Wanted to thank all the early adopters like cpcat, big mac, lisam, tony17, and johnson5 for all their input, impressions, and tirelessly answering all the questions us poor souls without one kept asking. Thanks also to Oysterhead for crashing the NEC event and posting the information he gathered. You all made my decision much easier. (I know missed some of you, so I apologize if you aren't on the list, you're views were still appreciated!)

I was trying to decide between the Panasonic 42px50u and this and kept going back and forth between them. What pushed it over the edge for me was the alleged goodness of the SD scaler in the NEC, the lack of floating blacks, an additional HDMI, and the swivel stand which I will use often due to my funky room layout. They just all added up to the NEC being the clear winner even though I haven't seen one yet. Hope to validate my choice soon!
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post #558 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 05:30 PM
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Congratulations, N8G! If my experience over the last 2 weeks is any indication, you will not be disappointed in either Chris or the NEC. And Lost looks fantastic - watching last week's episode right now.

Dave
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post #559 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 05:35 PM
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cpcat, or anyone else who's gotten into the service menu. can anyone make out if it is possible to activate the night/day settings feature. I would really like to enable this if possible, but don't want to get an ISF calibration just for that. Thanks!
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post #560 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Well, good news and bad news.

I called and spoke to Lumagen and found out how to set my scaler to ouput 1080 (24fps). The bad news is that the 50XR5 won't accept it over HDMI. According to Lumagen, hardly anything will right now other than Sony Qualia FP's. The good news is that you can still output 1080i from Blue Ray through HDMI and it will obviously work fine and most likely will look stellar.

This may be interesting: 1080i Blue Ray over HDMI vs. 1080p Blue Ray over component. At least we'll have the option of testing it.


Ahhh, this is exactly what I was going to ask and you answered it. Thanks! As long as I can use my HDMI to carry 1080i, I'm fine with that. I just didn't want to switch to component!!
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post #561 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8G View Post

Well I've finally joined the fray tonight. Put a 42XR4 on order with Chris at Cleveland Plasma so with luck I will be watching Lost in HD next week.

Wanted to thank all the early adopters like cpcat, big mac, lisam, tony17, and johnson5 for all their input, impressions, and tirelessly answering all the questions us poor souls without one kept asking. Thanks also to Oysterhead for crashing the NEC event and posting the information he gathered. You all made my decision much easier. (I know missed some of you, so I apologize if you aren't on the list, you're views were still appreciated!)

I was trying to decide between the Panasonic 42px50u and this and kept going back and forth between them. What pushed it over the edge for me was the alleged goodness of the SD scaler in the NEC, the lack of floating blacks, an additional HDMI, and the swivel stand which I will use often due to my funky room layout. They just all added up to the NEC being the clear winner even though I haven't seen one yet. Hope to validate my choice soon!

Good decision .
You will love this panel.
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post #562 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnatest View Post

What size television did you move up from and what is your viewing distance? I'm currently using a standard 27" Panasonic CRT and my viewing distance is about 14'. I used masking tape to frame in the size of the 42XR4 in our entertainment center. The size doesn't look too bad.

We went from a 32" CRT....a viewing distance of 14' is getting to the 50" range. my thought: if the extra $1k is not a big deal, I'd go with the 50". if you're already stretching it to get the 42", the go with the 42 and I'm sure you'll be siked. coming from a 27 it's gonna look huge! (dammit another option: go with a cheaper 50" like the Hitachi from Costco)


Quote:
Originally Posted by N8G View Post

Thanks also to Oysterhead for crashing the NEC event and posting the information he gathered.

no problem it's always great to encourage people to spend their hard-earned money.

$2k more for 1080p??? I think not! I bought nice seating instead!
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post #563 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 07:51 PM
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My 50xr5 has shipped! I was hoping to have it this week, but the federal holiday bumped everything, so I'll have it Monday. At least it gives me the weekend to put the mount up and make other preparations. As long as I have it in time for 24, I'm happy!
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post #564 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 08:45 PM
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I can get the Pioneer Elite 50" for the same price as the NEC with speakers. Any reason why I should not choose the PRO-1130 over the 50XR5?
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post #565 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 09:00 PM
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Aside from the obvious difference in size/resolution, are there any other benefits of going with the 50xr5 versus the 42xr4? (still not sure why the 42" is an "r4" vs an "r5" - is this significant?). ie, does it have any technological advantages/advances over the 42 inch version?

thanks
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post #566 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 09:57 PM
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Tough decision...

I believe it comes down to looks and connection options. Pioneer seems to have more stuff in the media box. If you got lots of equipment, Pioneer seems to be the best bet. That price for an Elite isn't possible for even dealers to get, however, so whoever sells it to you must owe you money...
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post #567 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpf717 View Post

Aside from the obvious difference in size/resolution, are there any other benefits of going with the 50xr5 versus the 42xr4? (still not sure why the 42" is an "r4" vs an "r5" - is this significant?). ie, does it have any technological advantages/advances over the 42 inch version?

thanks


no. in fact, the 42 has some advantages over the 50, including:

1. the screen is bonded, reducing reflection while increasing contrast and brightness

2. it has the "crystal clear panel" which increases contrast/brightnes...not really sure what this means

see this: NEC Brochure

$2k more for 1080p??? I think not! I bought nice seating instead!
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post #568 of 4648 Old 01-18-2006, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by aranganath View Post

My 50xr5 has shipped! I was hoping to have it this week, but the federal holiday bumped everything, so I'll have it Monday. At least it gives me the weekend to put the mount up and make other preparations. As long as I have it in time for 24, I'm happy!

I'm in the same boat as you, monday also. I'm going with the stand and it arrived today. It's actually very hefty and solid.
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post #569 of 4648 Old 01-19-2006, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tony17 View Post

cpcat, or anyone else who's gotten into the service menu. can anyone make out if it is possible to activate the night/day settings feature. I would really like to enable this if possible, but don't want to get an ISF calibration just for that. Thanks!

I didn't see anything in there that looked like that. In addition, many options you select can't be changed for whatever reason. There's probably some other "super secret" code. PM me if you need the access code to the SM. It should also be up on Bruzzi's site soon as I forwarded the info to him as well.

I guess you need more than 6 picture memory settings?
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post #570 of 4648 Old 01-19-2006, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by oysterhead View Post

no. in fact, the 42 has some advantages over the 50, including:

1. the screen is bonded, reducing reflection while increasing contrast and brightness

2. it has the "crystal clear panel" which increases contrast/brightnes...not really sure what this means

see this: NEC Brochure

What about the pixel shapes. I've read in this forum that the 42" has rectangular pixels. Does this have any meaningful effect, or is it essentially insignificant?

thanks
rpf717 is offline  
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Harman Kardon Avr 235 7 1 Channel Audio Video Surround Receiver

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