NEC new plasma thread!!! - 42xr4, 50xr5, 61xr4 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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For anyone that might be interested, this is an email I recieved today from an NEC PR specialist regarding their plasma business and relationship to Pioneer...

____________________________________________________________ ____
To set the record straight: NEC has no plans to stop making plasmas and our warranties are rock solid.

Here is some background on our relationship with Pioneer:

Pioneer Corporation took over NEC's plasma manufacturing facility and research and development resources in Kagoshima, Japan in March 2004 to become one of the largest plasma display suppliers in the world. This acquisition didn't affect NEC's global branded plasma business. NEC has retained dedicated resources in Japan to continue the growth and future development of NEC-branded displays.

NEC customers and partners in the Americas continue to have access to the same superior plasma display technology, reliable service and responsive support for which NEC is renowned. NEC continues to focus on offering industry-leading plasma displays for both professional and home applications.


That is a good suggestion to have an NEC rep. visit the forum regularly. I'll talk to my bosses here and see what we can figure out.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Amanda

Amanda M. Dvorchak
Public Relations Specialist
NEC Solutions (America), Inc.
Visual Systems Division

Office: 630-467-4149
Cell: 312-485-4513
Fax: 630-467-4750

amanda.dvorchak@necsam.com
www.necvisualsystems.com
____________________________________________________________ ____
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post #92 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

1000:1 is an excellent contrast ratio if it's accurately measured. Most here would agree than even the highly-respected 8th gen Pannys do not come close to the advertised 3000:1 contrast ratio. My guess (and hope) is that NEC is conservative in its numbers similar to how H/K is with their wattage figures on receivers.

I totally agree with Trackman. In two recent Home Theater Magazines they reviewed the Panasonic 42PX500 and Pioneer 5060 plasmas and they measured an ANSI contrast, which is more indicative of what you'll actual see on the screen, for the Panasonic of 364:1 and the Pioneer of 1135:1. This is a far cry from the published specs of either plasma. Now that doesn't mean the Pioneer has a better black level, as the Panasonic measure 0.027 ft-L vs. the Pioneer measured 0.033 ft-L, but it does mean mean it will have a wider dynamic range image.
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post #93 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerGuy View Post

For anyone that might be interested, this is an email I recieved today from an NEC PR specialist regarding their plasma business and relationship to Pioneer...

I have only one worry here, as noted Pioneer took over NEC. Therefor they have control over NEC plasma division and at any given time companies make changes. That is great news now, but what does the future for hold ????

My biggest consern is what if one day all NEC's are rebaged Pioneers as the 50" and 42" are "NOT" as of yet ???? Hopefully it will be like the Hitachi/Fujitsu deal were they are in a joint venture but there is a HUGE difference in units.

What do you think GamerGuy? Companies make changes everyday especially when they are losing money.
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post #94 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

My biggest consern is what if one day all NEC's are rebaged Pioneers as the 50" and 42" are "NOT" as of yet ????

I've not seen the PQ of the 5060, but I know it does *not* do native and 1:1 over HDMI. That to me would mean at least the electronics are dissimilar.
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post #95 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 07:32 PM
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post #96 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 08:20 PM
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This shouldn't matter with respect to the current NEC models, right? Based upon the specs, can anyone comment whether there should be a real difference between the picture quality of 42 and the 50? I know that there are a few differences but I don't know if these differences actually matter to the PQ.
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post #97 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 08:37 PM
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That was an awesome review of the 50XR5, just about ready to jump on it, however, this really freaks me out:

"Image Retention - I've not noticed anything significant in this area to be worried about. If something is on the screen for a few minutes and you change to a black screen you see a faint outline of it....but as soon as you change the channel and come back it is gone. I remember my VR5 was like this for the first couple of weeks and now I never get any retention. I think this is been exaggerated as well....I don't think it is really an issue if it goes away with the next screen. Now, if previous models had problems where you could see it over top of new images, then that would be a problem, and I can confirm this has never happened to me."

You are saying that after something is on the screen for a few minutes you do get some retention? Well, this is unfrigginbelievable. Every god damn 'something" is on for a few minutes! A football game has a score on top of the screen for more than a few minutes, are we supposed to change the channel during a crucial play so that we don't get image retention? I was going to hook up a PC to this thing, this would seem like suicide. Maybe i'm overreacting, but "things" are going to be on the screen for a few minutes or more, and i don't care that it apparently dissapears, this to me is no way to enjoy a $4000 investment.
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post #98 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 09:28 PM
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I see absolutely no image retention at all.
Checked and re chechecked again.
The contrast nd brightness were turned down 25% and then I checked again with the normal 50% absolutely none.
The image on SD sounds fabu;ous if one sits 10 feet away.
regards
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post #99 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

That was an awesome review of the 50XR5, just about ready to jump on it, however, this really freaks me out:


You are saying that after something is on the screen for a few minutes you do get some retention? Well, this is unfrigginbelievable. .

What he's referring to is better termed afterimaging or ghosting IMO.

You only see it with an intervening blank screen like when changing inputs. It's there for a few seconds at most and consists of a faint outline of a previous image. This occurred with my Panny TH-50PX50U as well and it seemed to get much less noticeable after the first 100 hours or so on the panel.

This may be somewhat related to image retention/burn-in but the true susceptibility (or lack thereof) in this new NEC panel will take time to evaluate.

I'm planning to run a PC with mine as well.
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post #100 of 4648 Old 12-31-2005, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

What he's referring to is better termed afterimaging or ghosting IMO.

You only see it with an intervening blank screen like when changing inputs. It's there for a few seconds at most and consists of a faint outline of a previous image. This occurred with my Panny TH-50PX50U as well and it seemed to get much less noticeable after the first 100 hours or so on the panel.

This may be somewhat related to image retention/burn-in but the true susceptibility (or lack thereof) in this new NEC panel will take time to evaluate.

I'm planning to run a PC with mine as well.

But what's freaking me out is i have only been considering plasmas because i hate the projected look of a RPTV or DLP. I have been chastising newbies for refusing to buy plasmas because of the burn-in issue even though they preferred the PQ of the plasma. I've been telling them that Panasonic says that it is equal to CRT levels as far as the possibility of burn in. I've been telling myself, after much research, that unless someone did something really stupid like leave a menu on all night there was no need to worry as long as the contrast was turned down etc. Just simple common sense. Now i hear that a brand new NEC plasma, a reference panel from one of the oldest and most respected companies in the world( of plasma TV's) did show a little image retention after just a few minutes of normal TV watching. I can't live with that, i watch primarilly premium cable, cable news, some DVD's, and some PC usage with an occasional PC game, obviously upgrading to Comcast HD. Once again, what is freaking me out is not that a plasma did show some retention, what is freaking me out is it happened after a few minutes which is way below the threshold of normal viewing. When i would read the various owners manuals they all would say something like " try not to leave still images, logos, etc on screen for certain length of time".....but a few minutes? How can someone enjoy watching one half hour show in its entirety without this baggage hanging over your head? Perhaps that 48 hour torture test was a misprint and meant 48 minutes? I do understand that image retention can be reversed, but that's not the point, the point being that it affects your viewing habits which i didn't want. If there's breaking news on CNN, i don't want to have to hesitate on the remote.
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post #101 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

I've been telling myself, after much research, that unless someone did something really stupid like leave a menu on all night there was no need to worry as long as the contrast was turned down etc. Just simple common sense. Now i hear that a brand new NEC plasma, a reference panel from one of the oldest and most respected companies in the world( of plasma TV's) did show a little image retention after just a few minutes of normal TV watching. .

I believe you are correct. Common sense and a little caution in the first 100 hours or so is all that's necessary.

I still think you are confusing image retention with afterimaging. Image retention is relatively permanent but can be somewhat reversible over time with running a dvd loop or inverse/white screen image. No new NEC owner at this forum has described any image retention yet. Afterimaging also occurs in the human eye. Does that worry you? Almost any display device will afterimage to some extent, but I guess it could be hard to tell sometimes whether it's the display or your eye.

You know the old saying, "nothing ventured, nothing gained".
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post #102 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 02:30 PM
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Here are a few. Thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for hosting.



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post #103 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 02:35 PM
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Nice!
Thanks for posting.
Any more evaluations, any issues?
Still 'wow'?

Thanks

shane

"Yes Eve... I like to watch." - Chauncey Gardener.

My HT Setup:
http://www.fototime.com/A0E2793180FB3D0/orig.jpg
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post #104 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 03:57 PM
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I just received a new NEC 61 and I am looking for any suggestions regarding the installation of the plasma. I will be wall mounting it.

I am looking for suggestions and/or recommendations in the areas of:

wiring
speakers
HD connections (Comcast provided)
additional equipment

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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post #105 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

Nice!
Thanks for posting.
Any more evaluations, any issues?
Still 'wow'?

Thanks

shane

Still playing around with everything. Right now I'm looking at the black/contrast performance with my setup (Sat/STB/DVD->scaler->panel) at both video black level settings vs. PC settings. I'll post back when I decide which is better. This may or may not apply unless you use a scaler or HTPC though.


I just finished being blown away (pun here) by part of the Doobie Bros. concert on HDNET. I'm getting a 3D, shimmering, almost liquid look to the picture which I don't remember getting with my Panny.
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post #106 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 05:37 PM
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Awesome , cpcat .
Thanks for posting the pics and review.
2 More days and i will be messing with this badboy...
I am so proud of my decision.
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post #107 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard101 View Post

I just received a new NEC 61 and I am looking for any suggestions regarding the installation of the plasma. I will be wall mounting it.

I am looking for suggestions and/or recommendations in the areas of:

wiring
speakers
HD connections (Comcast provided)
additional equipment

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

I don't have Comcast, but HDMI/DVI would be the preferred way to go in most cases. If you are planning to use the internal amplifier in the TV you'll need to bring analog audio out into one of the analog audio inputs on the TV then set the audio accordingly in the audio menu.

Any speakers will do, it just depends on what you want from them. I'm planning to hook up some small bookshelf Bose that I've had for years just for those times then I don't want to have to turn the HT system on. I'll probably hide them behind the panel and sort of fire around the sides. If these will be your only speakers, you might spend more for those provided by NEC or other similar "plasma speakers" available aftermarket.

The speaker-level output jacks are on the back/bottom of the panel and are the clip variety I think designed for bare wire connection.
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post #108 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Still playing around with everything. Right now I'm looking at the black/contrast performance with my setup (Sat/STB/DVD->scaler->panel) at both video black level settings vs. PC settings. I'll post back when I decide which is better. This may or may not apply unless you use a scaler or HTPC though.


I just finished being blown away (pun here) by part of the Doobie Bros. concert on HDNET. I'm getting a 3D, shimmering, almost liquid look to the picture which I don't remember getting with my Panny.

So at this point, is it safe to say that if you could only choose one to keep between the NEC and Panasonic, it would be the NEC? For full disclosure I am probably going to be making a similar decision soon, except in a 42" version.

Thanks for all the reviews and impressions posted.
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post #109 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 06:29 PM
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Cpcat: I see that you have your NEC on the tabletop stand. Was it at all difficult to attach the plasma to the stand? I plan to have the 42 inch sitting on the stand.

Thanks for posting the pictures.
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post #110 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 06:53 PM
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post #111 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 07:42 PM
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I found a picture of this display with the "clown feet" stand typical of other NEC's (see below). What is the model # for the nicer looking one in cpcat's photos? Thanks.

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post #112 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 08:44 PM
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It took for me 5 minutes to attach the stands.Four screws to tighten the stand and four scres to attach it to the monitor.Hex thread wrench provided.(2 on each stand)
I am a senior citizen and have no skills.But to place the monitor it needs 2 people to slide it to the vertical bars on the stand.
It is firm, heavy and no wobbling.
regards
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post #113 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 08:56 PM
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Thanks, Johnson...much appreciated.
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post #114 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8G View Post

So at this point, is it safe to say that if you could only choose one to keep between the NEC and Panasonic, it would be the NEC? Thanks for all the reviews and impressions posted.

Yes. So far, the NEC seems to have significantly better resolution, less dithering noise and artifacting, more natural rendition of colors, and comparable black level (without floating blacks). The black levels have continued to improve with run-in of the panel and with further tweaking that I've done. Shadow detail is at least equal, I think, but I've only watched a few clips of movies with dark scenes (HDNet movies and UHD) so that's still up in the air a bit. What have I been watching? Football, what else!

One caveat, though. I'm using a scaler with native rate and 1:1 mapping out to the panel. This bypasses the PDP's internal scaler so don't rely solely on my observations . We need a few more owners here to chime in. Black levels/shadow detail and color performance should still be to the credit of the NEC though. I also used the scaler with the Panny but the consumer models don't accept their native rate over HDMI. The best I could ever do was 1366 x 742.

I'll try to set up a pass-thru mode on my scaler so I can see if my observations still hold when I get a chance.
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post #115 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon Smith View Post

I found a picture of this display with the "clown feet" stand typical of other NEC's (see below). What is the model # for the nicer looking one in cpcat's photos? Thanks.

PX-ST2U

It works for both 50 and 42 inch models. It's all aluminum construction and swivels 10 degrees each way. Follow Chris' link above and I think you'll see dimensions for it.
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post #116 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 09:34 PM
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I have had my 50XR5 up and running only since yesterday afternoon. I am using KEF ACE9000 speakers and a Yamaha AVR for audio. Right now my only signal is SD from my old DirecTV STB. (I am switching to DISH network with all HD bells and whistles, but that won't be installed for about 10 more days.) This is my first plasma, but I looked at enough HDTVs of all kinds during the shopping process to feel that I know something about one should expect. All that is fair to say at this point is that I am very impressed with the manner in which the NEC is handling an SD signal delivered via an S-Video connection using a $13-Radio Shack S-video cable. This afternoon, I watched Redskins v Eagles, and in many ways the PQ was believable for HD. Watched "The Aviator" tonight and was similarly impressed. The color balance in that film varies from scene to scene, so it is a good test of the plasma itself. I have done virtually no adjusting of color balance, etc, except to cut back on the brightness a bit, because even though the default setting is 50% of max, the pic was a bit too bright. Sometimes there is a "green push", sometimes not, so I infer that this phenomenon could be related to the broadcast. I've still got to buy an upscaling DVD player and cannot decide which one to buy, between a Pio 59avi or Oppo 971H. The swivel stand is a work of industrial art in its own rite. Anyway, I am pleased with the 50XR5 and pleased also to be done with the decison making process. Thanks go to Chris at Cleveland Plasma.
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post #117 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 09:42 PM
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If you are planing on getting Dishnetwork HDTV receiver
you can buy the new MPEG 4 receiver now (no PVR)or if you wait for a month new MPEG 4 receiver with a 350 MB hard drive PVR.
You will find all the information in satellite guys form.
regards
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post #118 of 4648 Old 01-01-2006, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Yes. So far, the NEC seems to have significantly better resolution, less dithering noise and artifacting, more natural rendition of colors, and comparable black level (without floating blacks). The black levels have continued to improve with run-in of the panel and with further tweaking that I've done. Shadow detail is at least equal, I think, but I've only watched a few clips of movies with dark scenes (HDNet movies and UHD) so that's still up in the air a bit. What have I been watching? Football, what else!

One caveat, though. I'm using a scaler with native rate and 1:1 mapping out to the panel. This bypasses the PDP's internal scaler so don't rely solely on my observations . We need a few more owners here to chime in. Black levels/shadow detail and color performance should still be to the credit of the NEC though. I also used the scaler with the Panny but the consumer models don't accept their native rate over HDMI. The best I could ever do was 1366 x 742.

I'll try to set up a pass-thru mode on my scaler so I can see if my observations still hold when I get a chance.

cpcat, how is the light output compared to your Panasonic? Does the NEC have a dynamic contrast setting that floats the blacks like the Panasonic? Have you compared the blacks with your Panasonic in a dark room? The reason I ask this is because it is best way I have found to test the absolute black level by eye is by viewing a dark scene in a dark room. Thanks for your review and any feedback you can provide.
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post #119 of 4648 Old 01-02-2006, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmarkoff View Post

I have had my 50XR5 up and running only since yesterday afternoon. I am using KEF ACE9000 speakers and a Yamaha AVR for audio. Right now my only signal is SD from my old DirecTV STB. (I am switching to DISH network with all HD bells and whistles, but that won't be installed for about 10 more days.) This is my first plasma, but I looked at enough HDTVs of all kinds during the shopping process to feel that I know something about one should expect. All that is fair to say at this point is that I am very impressed with the manner in which the NEC is handling an SD signal delivered via an S-Video connection using a $13-Radio Shack S-video cable. This afternoon, I watched Redskins v Eagles, and in many ways the PQ was believable for HD. Watched "The Aviator" tonight and was similarly impressed. The color balance in that film varies from scene to scene, so it is a good test of the plasma itself. I have done virtually no adjusting of color balance, etc, except to cut back on the brightness a bit, because even though the default setting is 50% of max, the pic was a bit too bright. Sometimes there is a "green push", sometimes not, so I infer that this phenomenon could be related to the broadcast. I've still got to buy an upscaling DVD player and cannot decide which one to buy, between a Pio 59avi or Oppo 971H. The swivel stand is a work of industrial art in its own rite. Anyway, I am pleased with the 50XR5 and pleased also to be done with the decison making process. Thanks go to Chris at Cleveland Plasma.

Imarkoff, thanks for your initial thoughts. Looking to buy my first HDTV as well and the 50XR5 has captured my imagination. I notice your setup is going straight to your AVR with the sound. Have you experienced any lip sync issues from either your STB or your DVD?
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post #120 of 4648 Old 01-02-2006, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhfnet View Post

cpcat, how is the light output compared to your Panasonic? Does the NEC have a dynamic contrast setting that floats the blacks like the Panasonic? Have you compared the blacks with your Panasonic in a dark room? The reason I ask this is because it is best way I have found to test the absolute black level by eye is by viewing a dark scene in a dark room. Thanks for your review and any feedback you can provide.

The NEC seems to have significantly more light output. It would probably do better in poorly controlled lighting conditions (room with alot of windows for ex.)
than the Panasonic would.

The NEC doesn't have a setting which floats blacks or I haven't found it at least. Not that I'd use it necessarily. The only pic modes available to me while feeding native rate are "default" and "normal". I don't know if the other modes float the black. I'll play with setting a pass-thru mode on my scaler so I can further investigate.

I hardly ever watch in a completely darkened room and my visual memory of this for the Panny would be absent, so there's no use in trying it. I can tell you that the blacks in the picture on the NEC look *ink black* and seem to have gotten better each day with run-in on the panel so far. The sidebars for ESPNHD are very dark grey in the in-between areas behind the logo. I can, of course, adjust the set so that these areas are nearer-black but then I lose too much shadow detail. This is comparable to the way the Panasonic behaved as well. If you take into account the floating black level on the Panny, I'd say they're about equivalent. The sidebars (Panny) were on average very dark grey with low brightness scenes versus looking more ink black when a light scene was on the screen.
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