Official Toshiba 42HP95, 42HPX95, 50HP95 & 50HPX95 Thread - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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post #421 of 512 Old 02-18-2009, 09:18 PM
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RE: can't stand TV Guide On Screen

The point is that our Toshiba TVs use TV Guide data received from ANALOG TV stations even though the TVs have digital ATSC tuners. The TV guide will disappear when the Analog stations shut down. Some people actually edit their channels to match what they have in their local subset, and use use the guide to control recorders -- like the Toshiba Symbio AVHD.

The DTVPal+ converter box is advertised to convert the digital TVGOS data to analog format that can be read by our TVs -- I am trying to get one to work now. So far it has downloaded the data to the Toshiba 50HPX95, but channels all assigned the "Cable Box" at this point with no "Air" channels.

More later.
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post #422 of 512 Old 02-21-2009, 09:17 AM
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I set up the DTVPal+ converter box I bought at Sears as a separate RF channel 3 input (instead of cable box) last night, and the DTVPal+ successfully downloaded both OTA and "cable ready" (not cable box) channel lineups and listings into the TV's TVGOS. This was using the DTVPal+ channel 3 analog TVGOS data converted by the DTVPal+ from the digital OTA TVGOS host channel that will be only TVGOS data source available after the digital transition. Our TVs must use an analog channel source as the TVGOS host channel according to Toshiba. So the DTVPal+ converter box will keep our TVGOS system working for us after the digital transition.

It turns out there are two different setups for the DTVPal/+ -- Here is what I have found out so far:

1) If you have a device (TV, VCR, DVD Recorder, DVR) with an analog NTSC ONLY tuner that depends on an analog NTSC signal for TVGOS data, then set up the DTVPal+ on the device according to the instructions in the manual -- with the DTVPal+ set to TVGOS mode as a Scientific Atlanta cable box using the DTVPal+ manual zip code. The analog ONLY tuner in your device will be useless after the digital transition, and your device must use the tuner in the DTVPal+ as a cable box. This setup will use the Scientific Atlanta channel numbers. I think the magic zip code in the DTVPal manual puts ALL channels into the "Cable Box" listing so that analog only devices can receive OTA channels using the DTVPal+ after the digital transition -- and this setup limits all channels to 480i.

Unfortunately, what the DTVPal+ manual does NOT tell you -- and what is needed for our Toshibas -- is this:

2) If you have a device, like our Toshibas TVs, with an ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner that depends on an analog NTSC signal for the TVGOS data, do NOT set up the DTVPal+ as a cable box. Connect the channel 3 or 4 RF output to your device as a separate input RF input, and use your normal zip code on your device (not the zip code from the DTVPal+ manual). Using the DTVPAL+ remote, set the DTVPal+ to the digital TVGOS host channel for your area -- see

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

and be sure to select the TVGOS mode from the DTVPal+ menu. Thus, the DTVPAL+ just appears as an analog channel to your TV. This should allow the OTA ATSC and cable tuners in your TV to function normally with the TVGOS using normal channel numbers -- Hopefully, allowing the TVGOS to control AVHD DVRs like the Toshiba Symbio.

Before the digital transition, It would be a good idea to shut off your analog TVGOS host channel in the TVGOS channel editor to make it harder for the TVGOS to find compared to the DTVPal+ channel. Also, leave the TV set to the DTVPAL+ analog channel when you shut it off -- especially overnight.
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post #423 of 512 Old 02-22-2009, 12:18 PM
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Just to verify things, if you go into your TVs TVGOS what channel does it show it gets it's TVGOS info from? Note if it's a digital channel it might be the real channel number and not the virtual number you're familiar with.
I'm just trying to verify the Pal is doing what it's supposed to, that is convert the digital TVGOS to analog, and that you're not actually still getting the analog TVGOS directly. Yours is the first post I've seen of the Pal actually doing what it's supposed to and if indeed it works as you said I may just get one. I have a analog DVDR which uses TVGOS v9 and I'm currently getting analog TVGOS OTA from CBS. That will go away in June so I'd like to find a solution to keep my TVGOS going. Note the Pal seems to come in several different models, do you know if they would all work like yours?
Thanks
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post #424 of 512 Old 02-22-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Just to verify things, if you go into your TVs TVGOS what channel does it show it gets it's TVGOS info from? Note if it's a digital channel it might be the real channel number and not the virtual number you're familiar with.
I'm just trying to verify the Pal is doing what it's supposed to, that is convert the digital TVGOS to analog, and that you're not actually still getting the analog TVGOS directly. Yours is the first post I've seen of the Pal actually doing what it's supposed to and if indeed it works as you said I may just get one. I have a analog DVDR which uses TVGOS v9 and I'm currently getting analog TVGOS OTA from CBS. That will go away in June so I'd like to find a solution to keep my TVGOS going. Note the Pal seems to come in several different models, do you know if they would all work like yours?
Thanks

I have tested the DTVPal+ on a composite video input with the TV set up to use it as a Scientific Atlanta cable box. In that case the host channel shown in the TVGOS Diagnostic Screens showed the host channel as the composite input and correct channel for the DTVPal+ -- which does not receive analog signals at all. In this case all channels are received and converted to 480i -- which is what an analog DVD recorder would use.

I have also tested the DTVPal+ as a straight RF analog channel 3 input to the TV's TVGOS with the DTVPal+ being the only input on that RF input to the TV. The TVGOS diagnostic screens again showed the host channel as the correct input and channel number for the DTVPal+. In this case I can also use HDTV channels from another antenna input in the TVGOS with my HDDVR.

And, I have also tested the DTVPal+ as a straight analog input (not as a Cable Box) to a composite video input on my TVGOS TV. In this case, it did not receive the TVGOS data and the Diagnostic Screen host channel number did not change from the previous setting above. The PBS analog TVGOS host station in this area shuts down their analog transmitter between 2 am and 6 am, otherwise the TV probably would have found the old analog host in this instance.
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post #425 of 512 Old 02-22-2009, 04:22 PM
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Sounds like you've verified the Pal is doing what it's advertised as being able to do
Others had reported the Pal didn't work but I've always wondered if the users were in a area that had digital TVGOS in the first place. Of course without a Digital TVGOS host channel the Pal wouldn't work as advertised. You've got me hopeful my analog EH-55 will continue to work after the shutdown
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post #426 of 512 Old 02-23-2009, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Sounds like you've verified the Pal is doing what it's advertised as being able to do
Others had reported the Pal didn't work but I've always wondered if the users were in a area that had digital TVGOS in the first place. Of course without a Digital TVGOS host channel the Pal wouldn't work as advertised. You've got me hopeful my analog EH-55 will continue to work after the shutdown

BTW, if your EH-55 is really has a base TVGOS version of 9 -- it should work without the DTVPal+

-- I understand any base (original) version above 8.1.65 will receive ATSC data.
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post #427 of 512 Old 02-23-2009, 02:16 PM
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For the purpose of enabling our analog TVGOS devices to once again
get TVGOS listings, is the DTVPAL adequate or is the DTVPAL+ required?

TIA
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post #428 of 512 Old 02-23-2009, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmucklow View Post

BTW, if your EH-55 is really has a base TVGOS version of 9 -- it should work without the DTVPal+

-- I understand any base (original) version above 8.1.65 will receive ATSC data.

The problem is that the EH-55 does not have a ASTC (or QAM) digital tuner. Since it has no way of tuning the digital band it cannot receive the digital TVOGS.
I've tried both a Zenith 901 and CM-7000 CECB to my EH-55 and I'm still not able to get the digital TVGOS. Others have said the DTV Pal CECB is the only one advertised to to the conversion.
Sungear, I've wondered the same thing too.
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post #429 of 512 Old 02-23-2009, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sungear View Post

For the purpose of enabling our analog TVGOS devices to once again
get TVGOS listings, is the DTVPAL adequate or is the DTVPAL+ required?

TIA

From looking at other forums, it appears that the original DTVPal with version 105 or 106 SW will work. Older units have to be returned to be upgraded.
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post #430 of 512 Old 02-24-2009, 02:24 PM
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I know this will vary from town to town, but which of the brick & mortar retailers are known or have been known to carry the dtvpal plus?

TIA
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post #431 of 512 Old 02-24-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sungear View Post

I know this will vary from town to town, but which of the brick & mortar retailers are known or have been known to carry the dtvpal plus?

TIA

Sears
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post #432 of 512 Old 02-24-2009, 02:41 PM
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Thanks for your fast reply. I will swing by Sears after work and see if I can get one.
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post #433 of 512 Old 02-24-2009, 03:57 PM
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Am I missing something? Shouldn't Toshiba be sending us a firmware update that gives us a version of the TVGOS above 08.01.65? Shouldn't this enable our TV's to recieve the digital TVGOS? My understanding is the update cannot come from the VBI stream that normally updates the programming info but has to be on a SD card as previous firmware version updates done for non TVGOS reasons.
My TV has lost it's guide once again.(Comcast, Pa,19403) The previous Ver. was 08.01.53/08.06.44 now since losing the guide it is 08.01.53/00.00.00
I've tried changing Zip's to no avail.
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post #434 of 512 Old 02-24-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhibit#4 View Post

Am I missing something? Shouldn't Toshiba be sending us a firmware update that gives us a version of the TVGOS above 08.01.65?

Considering that Toshiba isn't even bothering to keep major replacement parts in stock (see earlier posts in this thread), do you expect that they will bother creating firmware upgrades for this set?

AT&T U-Verse Northeast Ohio

Denon x4000, Samsung LED TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, etc.
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post #435 of 512 Old 02-24-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhibit#4 View Post

Am I missing something? Shouldn't Toshiba be sending us a firmware update that gives us a version of the TVGOS above 08.01.65? Shouldn't this enable our TV's to recieve the digital TVGOS? My understanding is the update cannot come from the VBI stream that normally updates the programming info but has to be on a SD card as previous firmware version updates done for non TVGOS reasons.
My TV has lost it's guide once again.(Comcast, Pa,19403) The previous Ver. was 08.01.53/08.06.44 now since losing the guide it is 08.01.53/00.00.00
I've tried changing Zip's to no avail.

My understanding from Toshiba is that the original version is in a hardware chip and cannot be upgraded, and that is the 08.01.53 version number you mentioned. The 08.06.44 is the patch sent out by TVGOS with the TVGOS data. Subsequent downloads should reload that part from 00.00.00 back to 08.06.44 or whatever. it is the base version of 08.01.53 that needs to be 08.01.65 to work with ATSC data -- so we are probably stuck with another solution like the DTVPal +.
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post #436 of 512 Old 03-24-2009, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhibit#4 View Post

Am I missing something? Shouldn't Toshiba be sending us a firmware update that gives us a version of the TVGOS above 08.01.65? Shouldn't this enable our TV's to recieve the digital TVGOS? My understanding is the update cannot come from the VBI stream that normally updates the programming info but has to be on a SD card as previous firmware version updates done for non TVGOS reasons.
My TV has lost it's guide once again.(Comcast, Pa,19403) The previous Ver. was 08.01.53/08.06.44 now since losing the guide it is 08.01.53/00.00.00
I've tried changing Zip's to no avail.

Where are you viewing the TVGOS*version in the Toshiba TV?
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post #437 of 512 Old 03-27-2009, 01:44 PM
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1. press TVGuide button
2. Scroll L or R to "setup"
3. Scroll down to highlight "Change system settings" (only highlight, do not press enter")
4. punch in 753159852
5. main diagnostic screen comes up.
6 Version # is on that screen
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post #438 of 512 Old 03-27-2009, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhibit#4 View Post

1. press TVGuide button
2. Scroll L or R to "setup"
3. Scroll down to highlight "Change system settings" (only highlight, do not press enter")
4. punch in 753159852
5. main diagnostic screen comes up.
6 Version # is on that screen

Thanks xhibit,
and also gmucklow.

I have the same guide version as you.
Still no guide with the DTVPal/42HP95 set up as gmucklow posted.
I waited 2 days with no luck, reset the Toshiba and the Pal and now I'm waiting again. My DTVPal is at version 106, so it should work.
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post #439 of 512 Old 03-28-2009, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DidHeFocus View Post

Thanks xhibit,
and also gmucklow.

I have the same guide version as you.
Still no guide with the DTVPal/42HP95 set up as gmucklow posted.
I waited 2 days with no luck, reset the Toshiba and the Pal and now I'm waiting again. My DTVPal is at version 106, so it should work.

Yes, mine quit getting guide data correctly some time ago also. From looking at other threads, people all over the country with all kinds of hardware are having problems with TVGOS downloads -- especially after the early switch to DST. I guess we will have to wait for Macrovision and the networks to get their act together -- maybe after the normal DST switch in April, or maybe they think they have until the delayed June 12th DTV transition date to get it to work now. As mine was working at one point, I still have hope -- but the TVGOS problems right now are not unique to the DTVPal Plus.
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post #440 of 512 Old 03-29-2009, 12:34 PM
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gmucklow,
I must have misread, but I thought your TVGOS was still working. Thanks for clarifying. I will save some frustration knowing that it isn't just me having problems getting this to work.
My analog TVGOS stopped working after the daylight savings change. I assumed the digital side was ready since they pulled the plug on analog.
Macrovision needs to get their act together soon.
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post #441 of 512 Old 04-15-2009, 03:30 PM
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TVGOS has been out for 3 months after being out for another 2 in November with numerous calls to Toshiba Tech support, including incident report to Macrovision. In general Toshiba's support is good and they try to be helpful but no one thought to ask what station was listed for the only Analog ( read: TVGOS host) channel. Originally like many it was the local PBS station but now is CBS. I stumbled on this by pure frustration and when I called Toshiba late afternoon, 4/13 and also e-mailed Macrovision with the incident # and my Zipcode lo and behold I started to receive some data by the next afternoon,and the full grid by this morning Why Macrovision would have to be told about this when Comcast is probably their largest provider of TVGOS info for them is really incompetent. How could they not have been in contact with Comcast in the Philly area to coordinate changing the host channel for PBS to CBS? Even though anyone with TVGOS should be the same priority you would think a market as large as Philadelphia and it's suburbs would not fall through the tracks. Done my rant, glad I have my guide back.
ps. I still think we should be able to get a firmware update to give us the digital guide.
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post #442 of 512 Old 04-18-2009, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhibit#4 View Post

TVGOS has been out for 3 months after being out for another 2 in November with numerous calls to Toshiba Tech support, including incident report to Macrovision. In general Toshiba's support is good and they try to be helpful but no one thought to ask what station was listed for the only Analog ( read: TVGOS host) channel. Originally like many it was the local PBS station but now is CBS. I stumbled on this by pure frustration and when I called Toshiba late afternoon, 4/13 and also e-mailed Macrovision with the incident # and my Zipcode lo and behold I started to receive some data by the next afternoon,and the full grid by this morning Why Macrovision would have to be told about this when Comcast is probably their largest provider of TVGOS info for them is really incompetent. How could they not have been in contact with Comcast in the Philly area to coordinate changing the host channel for PBS to CBS? Even though anyone with TVGOS should be the same priority you would think a market as large as Philadelphia and it's suburbs would not fall through the tracks. Done my rant, glad I have my guide back.
ps. I still think we should be able to get a firmware update to give us the digital guide.

Thanks for the post.
How exactly did you get the guide to work again?
Did Comcast fixed it on thier end?
I guess OTA TVGOS is still SOL here in the Sacramento area.
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post #443 of 512 Old 04-19-2009, 08:49 AM
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My TVGOS is working using the analog CBS channel from Baltimore, which is on my condo master antenna until June 12th, and the zip code for my local CBS channel in Washington, DC.

Trying the DTVPal Plus in TVGOS mode just as an analog input (not cable box) to the TV with my local digital CBS station, which did work earlier, now just locks up the TV and I have to do a power off reset to get it back. However, I have seen the ATSC slicer data coming in during some tests. So, there is still hope Macrovision may have something working from 127 inserted data by June 12th.

I am also concerned about getting a clock after the digital transition, and Toshiba fixing the manual record capability with a manual clock set. It looks like the TVGOS thinks the clock is set a day later than it is with a manual clock set. It says the time for the recording is already passed if I try to set a recording for the same day. If I set a recording for the next day, it still does not record, as when the date switches to the next day it thinks the recording date has passed again or something.
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post #444 of 512 Old 04-19-2009, 09:09 AM
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My guess is either the e-mail sent by me to customer support at TV Guide or the report Toshiba filed with TV Guide caused TV guide/Macrovision to call Comcast in my area and switch the host channel from PBS analog to CBS analog.
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post #445 of 512 Old 04-20-2009, 06:49 PM
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I factory reset my 42HP95 and removed the DTVPal and overnight I got the correct time in the morning. This evening I have TVGOS again!
How can I tell what channel it's getting it from?
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post #446 of 512 Old 04-24-2009, 09:16 AM
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Now that the clock problems have stabilized somewhat after the prolonged DST transition, I decided to revisit using the DTVPal Plus in TVGOS mode to convert TVGOS data received from my local digital CBS station into analog form for my Toshiba 50HPX95 ASTC/NTSC TV that uses only analog signals for the TVGOS -- and it seems to be working. And it should work after June 12th. The clock channel is also the digital CBS station.

I set up the DTVPal Plus emulating a Scientific Atlanta cable box according to the manual on input one, and my OTA antennas on input two. I used the zip code from the DTVPAL Plus manual for the TVGOS setup on the TV, and the zip code for the local CBS station on the DTVPal Plus. I left the TV set on input one overnight, and the TVGOS system did get downloads overnight from the digital CBS station via the DTVPal Plus. The TV also locked on the input one so that I could not receive anything on input two, probably due the state the TV was left in after the many experiments I had done during the clock problems. I reset the TV by unplugging it and plugging it back in, and input two started working. The next morning the TVGOS had reset itself and asked for the cable provider again. I selected Comcast, as I had better luck with that than "No Match" in earlier experiments. The listings instantly appeared, although the channel lineup was reduced from a thousand to around 700 with the cable channels -- And, I have received TVGOS downloads for the last two nights successfully, with the TV working normally.

I had to do a lot of editing in the channel editor to turn off the cable channels, but I am able to receive HD broadcasts normally from input two using the ATSC tuner.

One key point is that the the TVGOS host channel found by the TV in the Scientific Atlanta scheme is channel 190. The digital ATSC CBS channel would be 191, as the virtual channel number of the CBS station in Washington, DC is 9.1 -- Scientific Atlanta drops the decimal and adds 100 to the virtual channel numbers, so channel 09.1 becomes 191 on the DTVPal Plus. This may be key to getting it to work. Channel 190 may be the basic data stream including the HD subchannel and the SD subchannels as well as the SCTE 127 data carrying the TVGOS information to be converted and inserted into the analog VBI data output by the DTVPAL Plus. Channel 191 may only have the HD subchannel data -- Or, it just found the TVGOS data on channel 190 before it checked channel 191.
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post #447 of 512 Old 05-03-2009, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmucklow View Post

From looking at other forums, it appears that the original DTVPal with version 105 or 106 SW will work. Older units have to be returned to be upgraded.

My DTVPal units have ver 101 software and were used to restore TVGOS on my Toshiba 46HM95 TV and an analog DVD recorder. They do have other issues concerning the timers but for use in the TVGOS mode, it is not a problem.

Since I couldn't get them to work in the TVGOS mode back in June, 2008 I thought they were bad units. Now I realize, with the help of postings by gmucklow, that my local CBS station needed to start sending out the required signal for them to work. They do work correctly now.

Thanks for your testing and postings about these DTVPal units gmucklow!!

Keith
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post #448 of 512 Old 05-12-2009, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by gmucklow View Post

Now that the clock problems have stabilized somewhat after the prolonged DST transition, I decided to revisit using the DTVPal Plus in TVGOS mode to convert TVGOS data received from my local digital CBS station into analog form for my Toshiba 50HPX95 ASTC/NTSC TV that uses only analog signals for the TVGOS -- and it seems to be working. And it should work after June 12th. The clock channel is also the digital CBS station.

I set up the DTVPal Plus emulating a Scientific Atlanta cable box according to the manual on input one, and my OTA antennas on input two. I used the zip code from the DTVPAL Plus manual for the TVGOS setup on the TV, and the zip code for the local CBS station on the DTVPal Plus. I left the TV set on input one overnight, and the TVGOS system did get downloads overnight from the digital CBS station via the DTVPal Plus. The TV also locked on the input one so that I could not receive anything on input two, probably due the state the TV was left in after the many experiments I had done during the clock problems. I reset the TV by unplugging it and plugging it back in, and input two started working. The next morning the TVGOS had reset itself and asked for the cable provider again. I selected Comcast, as I had better luck with that than "No Match" in earlier experiments. The listings instantly appeared, although the channel lineup was reduced from a thousand to around 700 with the cable channels -- And, I have received TVGOS downloads for the last two nights successfully, with the TV working normally.

I had to do a lot of editing in the channel editor to turn off the cable channels, but I am able to receive HD broadcasts normally from input two using the ATSC tuner.

One key point is that the the TVGOS host channel found by the TV in the Scientific Atlanta scheme is channel 190. The digital ATSC CBS channel would be 191, as the virtual channel number of the CBS station in Washington, DC is 9.1 -- Scientific Atlanta drops the decimal and adds 100 to the virtual channel numbers, so channel 09.1 becomes 191 on the DTVPal Plus. This may be key to getting it to work. Channel 190 may be the basic data stream including the HD subchannel and the SD subchannels as well as the SCTE 127 data carrying the TVGOS information to be converted and inserted into the analog VBI data output by the DTVPAL Plus. Channel 191 may only have the HD subchannel data -- Or, it just found the TVGOS data on channel 190 before it checked channel 191.


The phone tech this morning told me that the DTVPal Plus was only designed to work with antennas, not cable. This the manual agrees. Are you saying that this converter box enabled your analog device to access TVGOS cable channels?

It may be that my Panasonic EH50 can not work like your equipment, but I would like to clarify this.

Dan
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post #449 of 512 Old 05-12-2009, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeaty View Post

The phone tech this morning told me that the DTVPal Plus was only designed to work with antennas, not cable. This the manual agrees. Are you saying that this converter box enabled your analog device to access TVGOS cable channels?

It may be that my Panasonic EH50 can not work like your equipment, but I would like to clarify this.

Dan

My earlier post that you quoted was for using the DTVPal Plus with a Toshiba TV -- the subject of this thread. The DTVPal Plus input is an antenna input to receive digital ATSC signals. It converts them to analog NTSC signals with the TVGOS data inserted for those devices that use analog TVGOS signals, wether or not the device also has an ATSC tuner. It emulates a Scientific Atlanta cable box in the TVGOS mode to do this. I have continued to experiment, and now have it working on the video 1 input to my Toshiba TV with my ATSC antenna input on the Antenna 2 input. I had a problem receiving the wrong channel for the TVGOS data from a nearby city. So, I set the DTVPal Plus to the correct local channel and removed the IR Blaster, so that if the Toshiba TV tries to search channels on the DTVPal plus, it will only get the correct channel. This has been working for over a week with full listings and no lockups in the Washington, DC area.

The DTVPal Plus will also work with your EH50. You would set it up on a fixed input to the EH50 -- such as the video input -- and use the timers in both the DTVPal Plus and the EH50 to record analog programs from the DTVPal Plus that have been converted from digital ATSC signals on the antenna input on the DTVPal Plus. You would use the DTVPal Plus internal program guide in this setup, not the TVGOS. Set the clock in the EH50 manually. This will work now.

If you can set up a cable box on the EH50, it should work in TVGOS mode as well, emulating a Scientific Atlanta cable box as far as the EH50 is concerned. Then you could use the TVGOS system in the EH50. If, and only if, the analog TVGOS data is being inserted into an ATSC digital channel in your area. You may need to wait until June 12th for this, depending on your location.
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post #450 of 512 Old 05-12-2009, 03:05 PM
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Some people have suggested that Blu-Ray doesn't make a noticeable improvement on 720p sets like these Toshiba plasma models, as compared to watching a regular DVD. What have other people found?

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