Official Vizio P50HD Thread ( part 2): NO PRICING: Technical Issues ONLY! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4456 Old 03-12-2006, 08:59 PM
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reading over on teamxbox forums it seems to be a widespread problem on some HDTVs with the overscan. Like I said I really didn't notice it until it was pointed out so its not really that big of a deal where it takes away from the game. Maybe we'll get a patch sometime.

Pioneer 5071HD
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post #272 of 4456 Old 03-12-2006, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by neomits View Post

reading over on teamxbox forums it seems to be a widespread problem on some HDTVs with the overscan. Like I said I really didn't notice it until it was pointed out so its not really that big of a deal where it takes away from the game. Maybe we'll get a patch sometime.

Yeah no big deal. Just weird I guess. Does it cut of anything on TV? Like the ABC logo or, i was flippin the chans and the Disney Channel logo is very close to the edge of tv, i wonder if that gets cut off?
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post #273 of 4456 Old 03-12-2006, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Noyd View Post

Vizio P50 HDM
Reviewed by Robert Heron

PC Magazine

REVIEW DATE: 03.09.06 online and the 04.25.06 issue #7 of PC Magazine

The Vizio P50 HDM is the least expensive 50-inch plasma display I've seen to date, and I came away impressed by its good overall picture quality and selection of A/V inputs.

Excellent value. Good image quality with standard and high-definition video. Clean, easy-to-navigate menu system.

Click this Link to view the article: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1936232,00.asp

What makes the image stretch vertically at 1080i? I still don't see how the overscan does that (it crops - doesn't stretch)...is that a function in a service menu? This service menu stuff is going to drive me crazy...is the C-store ever going to carry Sony SXRDs?
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post #274 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit360 View Post

THANK YOU!! I've been dying to see how 360 looks on it. FANTASTIC!!

I only have one problem I can see. You are not getting the whole picture of the game. Are you able to adjust this set with height and width or anything? I noticed in your pictures the blue HUD box was cut off, and there's a little more after it that isnt showing. This is a screen shot from IGN See how it shows more of the blue? I'd be worried some stuff will be cut off....but WOW it looks good on that set. Hrrrm.

EDIT:
Are you running your 360 at 1080i or 720p? Does the picture change at all if you change it from one to the other? I wonder if it's set at 1080i, if you make it 720 if it will format the picture better?


I have a Tohshiba 30 inch HDTV WS....and it does the same thing with the HUD being cut off a bit....so it's not just the Vizio.
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post #275 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 08:11 AM
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I don't believe this has been posted yet. It's a review done by an ISF calibrator.

http://www.holtmods.com/Vizio%20P50HDM%20Plasma%20b.htm

Maybe someone can send him a nice and/or sneaky email and get the service codes from him.

Jon
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post #276 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 11:18 AM
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I have a couple last questions before I finally give in and go buy this thing this week.

Given that this uses LG, glass...is this likely a pretty identical set to the Zenith 50 inch, minus the tuner and different case? I saw the Zenith has pixel orbiting and I have seen no mention of this in the vizio brochure...can anyone confirm this does not have that feature?

Second, has anyone purchased in the last month or so and care to comment on the fan noise? I am curious if they have made any adjustments given all the reports of warranty service on the older model fans.

Thanks so much!
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post #277 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.night View Post

I have a Tohshiba 30 inch HDTV WS....and it does the same thing with the HUD being cut off a bit....so it's not just the Vizio.

Thanks for info.

How far is everyone sitting from this set? Is 9.5-10 feet far enough?
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post #278 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krispykeith View Post

Second, has anyone purchased in the last month or so and care to comment on the fan noise? I am curious if they have made any adjustments given all the reports of warranty service on the older model fans.

I bought mine about three weeks ago. Fan noise is not an issue, but circuit buzzing during bright scenes still seems to be a problem. It's not bad enough on mine to warrant any fuss, since I rarely watch TV with the volume off.

I'm about 99.9% positive the set does not feature pixel orbiting. Unless they're just hiding that feature really well.
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post #279 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krispykeith View Post

I have a couple last questions before I finally give in and go buy this thing this week.

Given that this uses LG, glass...is this likely a pretty identical set to the Zenith 50 inch, minus the tuner and different case? I saw the Zenith has pixel orbiting and I have seen no mention of this in the vizio brochure...can anyone confirm this does not have that feature?

Second, has anyone purchased in the last month or so and care to comment on the fan noise? I am curious if they have made any adjustments given all the reports of warranty service on the older model fans.

Thanks so much!

I bought both the Zenith and the Vizio. In my opinion, there is no comparison. The Zenith is vibrant and has a "depth" to the picture. The Vizio was dull in comparison no matter what adjustments I made to the settings. I ended up selling the Vizio locally at a $400 loss just to get rid of it. In doing so I avoided a $400+ shipping charge plus 10% restocking fee back to Vizio. The bottom line is that despite my hope that the Vizio would compare (I would have taken the $500 more expensive Zenith back), it just didn't. Vizio's customer service was not too good, either. I called them on a Thursday and told them I wasn't satisfied and wanted to return the TV. The guy told me he would "make arrangements" for the return and would call me back within 24 hours. The following Tuesday I had to call twice just to get him on the phone and get him to give me a return number. As you can see, I wasn't at all impressed with their produce or service.
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post #280 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 12:39 PM
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I was watching MR 3000 on my xbox DVD player and noticed a lot of false contouring.

On the opening of Ray I saw macroblocking

I know its nots a great DVD player, but I wasnt even looking for this stuff and it was really obvious to me.

Would a component hookup or upscaling dvd player get rid of some of these problems?
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post #281 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralKY05 View Post

I bought both the Zenith and the Vizio. In my opinion, there is no comparison. The Zenith is vibrant and has a "depth" to the picture. The Vizio was dull in comparison no matter what adjustments I made to the settings. I ended up selling the Vizio locally at a $400 loss just to get rid of it. In doing so I avoided a $400+ shipping charge plus 10% restocking fee back to Vizio. The bottom line is that despite my hope that the Vizio would compare (I would have taken the $500 more expensive Zenith back), it just didn't. Vizio's customer service was not too good, either. I called them on a Thursday and told them I wasn't satisfied and wanted to return the TV. The guy told me he would "make arrangements" for the return and would call me back within 24 hours. The following Tuesday I had to call twice just to get him on the phone and get him to give me a return number. As you can see, I wasn't at all impressed with their produce or service.

I totally believe what you are saying but then why does the Vizio keep getting great reviews/awards? I never hear about the Zenith...
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post #282 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egmutza View Post

I'm about 99.9% positive the set does not feature pixel orbiting. Unless they're just hiding that feature really well.

I'm 100% sure the Vizio doesn't have orbiting. I asked vizio a month ago and they said it didn't.

As to the buzzing, if I am on a really bright all white screen with the volume off, I can hear it, but during regular watching with moderate volume I can't. Not enough for me to worry about.
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post #283 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by krispykeith View Post

I was just about to pull the trigger on this tv but I could not get the standard channels to stretch in the store. I tried wide, zoom and regular but no matter what standard def was letterboxed. The store associate was unable to get it to stretch either. Switching to a hi-def channel of course filled the whole screen.

Please tell me there is a way to stretch the 4:3 images...this display set already had black bars severely burned in.

If you are watching SD broadcast through your STB, you can stretch the 4:3 to 16:9. I learned this from the replies in the previous thread. Turn off the power of the STB and press 'MENU' button and adjust the display to 4:3 stretch. and also the TV type to 16:9. You can also set the resolution to 480P, 720p or 1080i.
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post #284 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 02:57 PM
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I am curious as well about the Zenith/Vizio comparison. I have read numerous rave reviews on the vizio and I do prefer the case, but that Zenith has often been seen within a few hundred dollars of the vizio. Pixel orbiting and an included tuner would warrant the extra few hundred but the lack of any positive reviews tells me there is something better about the vizio picture quality.

I appreciate the feedback that you actually preferred the zenith. If further clouds my decision a bit. Thanks for the feedback on stretching as well.
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post #285 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pdawg17 View Post

I totally believe what you are saying but then why does the Vizio keep getting great reviews/awards? I never hear about the Zenith...

In my opinion, I think people are just seeing a great improvement over RPTV's and regular TV's. If they actually have something else in the home to compare it to (like I did), I think they would definitely see a difference. I even posted my impressions on both the CC website feedback for the Zenith and the CNET section for the Vizio.
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post #286 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 03:56 PM
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I see a lot of people mentioning "Builds", such as F37, G01, etc. If buying this TV, is there a specific "Build" I should be looking for? Can you tell what build one is by looking on the outside of the box?

Thanks..
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post #287 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri View Post

I see a lot of people mentioning "Builds", such as F37, G01, etc. If buying this TV, is there a specific "Build" I should be looking for? Can you tell what build one is by looking on the outside of the box?

Thanks..


I would like to know this as well. I understand it relates to week of manufacturing, but I am curious if people from different build's have noticed differences in the buzzing/fan noise.
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post #288 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralKY05 View Post

In my opinion, I think people are just seeing a great improvement over RPTV's and regular TV's. If they actually have something else in the home to compare it to (like I did), I think they would definitely see a difference. I even posted my impressions on both the CC website feedback for the Zenith and the CNET section for the Vizio.

That seems like a very unreasonable assumption. Perhaps the Zenith does have better PQ, but that does not mean that the Vizio is only getting some good reviews and word of mouth because those who think so are used to watching older technology. Come on...
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post #289 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by waddo View Post

That seems like a very unreasonable assumption. Perhaps the Zenith does have better PQ, but that does not mean that the Vizio is only getting some good reviews and word of mouth because those who think so are used to watching older technology. Come on...

Yeah...I don't think most reviews on websites (Sound & Vision, etc) are done by novices (at least I hope not )
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post #290 of 4456 Old 03-13-2006, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krispykeith View Post

I would like to know this as well. I understand it relates to week of manufacturing, but I am curious if people from different build's have noticed differences in the buzzing/fan noise.

After looking through a few threads I read that it is within the serial number, and it relates to the week of manufacturing like you said. G=2006 and 02 is the second week. I saw a few boxes at the store and there were G01's and G02's, so I guess the later the better?
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post #291 of 4456 Old 03-14-2006, 07:19 AM
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I always like to get the freshest build...the latest I've seen is G04, I own a G01 - no fan noise, but the power board is noticeable although not with the volume on. The firmware v2.0.1 and the fan fix have been out for a while, and all the 2006 boxes to date are using this.
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post #292 of 4456 Old 03-14-2006, 08:46 AM
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I just purchased one (I will not mention the warehouse chain I bought it from). It is an F43. I haven't opened it yet, but am wondering what is the likelihood of it having the problems commonly mentioned (light buzz, fan noise, HDMI sync, image posterization).

I'm wondering if we have collected enough data in this forum to get a timeline as to when some fixes were introduced.
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post #293 of 4456 Old 03-14-2006, 10:29 AM
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Is 9.5 feet far enough away to sit from this set?
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post #294 of 4456 Old 03-14-2006, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit360 View Post

Is 9.5 feet far enough away to sit from this set?

Some would say 8-9 feet is perfect actually...with my room I have to sit 12-13' away and I wish I could get a little closer...
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post #295 of 4456 Old 03-14-2006, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by pdawg17 View Post

Some would say 8-9 feet is perfect actually...with my room I have to sit 12-13' away and I wish I could get a little closer...

Thanks
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post #296 of 4456 Old 03-14-2006, 01:02 PM
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I haven't seen this review before
Vizio P50HDM Plasma Monitor

PETER PUTMAN, CTS

You won't find this 50-inch plasma monitor in big box stores or at the mall; only at wholesale price clubs and on the V Inc. Web site. Does it deliver the goods?

One of the risks of buying a no name brand of anything is the uncertain quality of the product. There are numerous companies peddling plasma monitors and TVs under names you've never heard, and they basically make deals with manufacturers to clear out stock from warehouses. Whoever has the best price gets the business.

Vizio is a relatively young company with its roots in Princeton Graphics that has been selling plasma monitors, rear-projection TVs, and set-top boxes for a few years. While not a manufacturer per se, they do have considerable input into the design, build, and operation of their products, unlike other re-branders and OEM partners. Their channel strategy has been to sell direct through the Internet, or through wholesale clubs like Costco.

With that in mind, I decided to take a closer look at one of their plasma TVs and selected the P50HDM because of its low $2,499 MSRP ($$$ online). That's a real good deal, even if it's only a monitor (no built-in TV tuners).

Figure 1. Vizio's P50HDM plasma monitor

OUT OF THE BOX

The P50HDM is ready to plug-and-play, attached to its stand. The speakers are built-in, not accessories you need to screw onto the sides and wire up. An attractive black bezel surrounds the screen, with the speakers finished in a silver color.

Because this product is strictly a video monitor, Vizio goes to great lengths to make sure the buyer understands that the monitor cannot pick up TV programs on its own. An enormous fold-up poster is attached to the protective plastic cover and shows you exactly how to hook up the monitor, then goes on to suggest accessory cables, wall and tilt mounts, and even an accessory terrestrial DTV tuner made by Humax (HFA-100).

Vizio also offers four VIP installation plans, ranging from a basic plan (hook the TV up to your existing home theater and program your remote) to advanced (install wall mounts and even put up an antenna, run coax, and set you up to watch off-air DTV). There are also a few extended warranty options.

That's a lot of customer care, but it's not all that surprising when you consider the liberal product return policies of wholesale clubs (generally, up to 6 months for any reason with a full refund). So it's in Vizio's best interest to make sure these monitors stay sold!

For a monitor, the P50HDM has a ton of input connections. There are two AV inputs, each sporting composite and S-video jacks, and two component YPbPr inputs using RCA jacks. For PC users, there's a 15-pin VGA input jack, and the digital crowd will be happy with two HDMI ports. Each input also has stereo audio connections, either RCA or Mini.

At first glance, a stereo audio connection for an HDMI input is redundant - HDMI is a true multimedia interface and carries wideband digital audio. I can only assume this connection was intended for that accessory Humax tuner, I product I tested some time ago that did not implement the audio interface in HDMI, only video. (Don't worry; the HDMI interface on the P50HDM does play back audio from compatible signal sources.)

Figure 2. The remote control

The supplied remote control is a bit busy for my taste. It has nearly 50 buttons on it and you can easily hit the wrong one by mistake. Fortunately, the power button is very small and safely away from the numeric keypad. The channel and volume switches are rocker types, while the menu navigation uses four-way directional arrows.

You'll have somewhat direct access to channels. Three buttons below the directional keypad will get you into different groups of inputs (AV, Analog HD, Digital HD), while a fourth button marked NTSC TV doesn't have any function at all, as there is no on-board analog tuner. The remote can also control other AV devices, including VCRs, DVD players, and set-top boxes.

MENUS AND OPTIONS

There's a lot going on behind the fa├žade of this TV. In addition to conventional aspect ratio settings (Normal, Wide, Zoom), there are also several picture-in-picture functions. You can set up a small PIP window, a larger window, position it at different corners, or view two video windows at once (PoP). The P50HDM is unusual in that both of the HDMI inputs can be configured into PiP or PoP configurations even with each other.

The on-screen displays are quite easy to use, but only provide rudimentary control. In addition to basic image parameters, you'll also have a three-step contrast enhancement (which does make a difference) and three levels of flesh tone enhancement. I wouldn't use the latter control if you can calibrate the set's white balance correctly, and I'll get to that shortly. Vizio also provides multi-step analog and digital noise filters, which I found to be somewhat effective in analog mode only.

There are five preset picture modes Vivid, Movie, Sport, Game, and User. These provide preset combinations of brightness, contrast gamma, and color temperature. While you can adjust some of those in User mode, you cannot access the controls needed to set white balance.

You'll need to get the service code from Vizio, and also have a color analyzer on hand to make sure you do things correctly. Vizio only provides red, green, and blue drive adjustments in the service menu along with picture gamma, so a careful brightness and contrast calibration is needed beforehand to get a clean grayscale.

On the audio side, you'll have full command over tone adjustments, simulated surround sound on/off, and closed caption settings. (The latter function is an interesting inclusion considering there is no built-in TV tuner.) The menu is toped off with a clever screen cleaner function that wipes away any residual static images. That could be handy if you went out and left the P50HDM and your set-top box parked on MSNBC or CNN all day long!

ON THE TEST BENCH

I used a variety of SD and HD signal sources to ring out' the P50HDM, including cable and terrestrial set-top boxes from LG, Motorola, and Accurian, along with 480i/p signals from a Panasonic RP56 DVD player. RGB signals came from my desktop PC, and further analog and digital 720p and 1080i test patters were fed from AccuPel HDG2000 and Sencore VP403 test pattern generators.

After calibration for best grayscale image, I measured small area brightness at 287.6 nits (84 ft-L) and full white brightness at 92.58 nits (27 ft-L). Average contrast with a 16-block checkerboard pattern was clocked at 497:1 and peak contrast at 598:1 in Standard picture mode. Oddly enough, contrast numbers improved in Movie mode to 572:1 average and 668:1 peak. Black levels were very low in Movie mode; on average, I measured .24 nits.

Figure 3. Grayscale tracking results, before and after calibration.

Figure 4. The P50HDM's color gamut compared to the REC709 HDTV color gamut.

White balance out of the box is not close to the D6500 standard, and the factory grayscale wanders quite a bit in temperature. However, after re-calibrating brightness, contrast, and RGB drive, I was able to get a more satisfactory result, as seen in Figure 3. Although the color temperature value at 20 IRE was quite warm, the P50HDM gets back into the ballpark rather quickly from 30 IRE on up. Figure 4 shows the actual color gamut compared to the REC709 HDTV color space.

In terms of bandwidth, this monitor can pass 720p and 1080i content to at least 18.5 MHz not great, but on a pair with most consumer HDTV sets. The RGB input does a little better, getting to well over 20 MHz with a luminance multiburst test pattern. This input will accept a wide range of PC signals (sorry, no HDTV formats) including 1360x768 and 1280x768 widescreen modes.

IMAGE QUALITY

The P50HDM is bucking to show super-bright images, so you'll need to tame it to get good grayscales. Getting the high end of the grayscale to stop blooming meant cranking the brightness and contrast settings way back to 40 or less, but don't worry you'll still have plenty of light from the screen.

After performing my calibrations, the gamma curve I plotted was nowhere near what the factory setting claimed. However, the monitor came out of black nicely, preserving shadow detail as much as a plasma display can, with little false contouring evident save for some really low-luminance noise.

The P50HDM incorporates Genesis' DCDi processor, so it does an excellent job decoding composite video, cleaning up scan line artifacts, and picking up 3:2 sequences as verified with the Video Essentials and Realta HQV test DVDs. 480i scaling to 768p is about average, but is clean because the 480-line interlaced processing is so good.

I viewed 720p/60 clips from Super Bowl XL and 1080i content from Discovery HD and INHD, finding colors to be well saturated with lots of image detail. The 1080i deinterlacing could be better; there were some scan line and motion artifacts seen. 720p content had the edge for overall live image quality. If you are going to watch mostly progressive-scan DVDs and HD programming, turn the monitor's sharpness control down to 2 or less. You just don't need it.

Outboard video scalers will also help through the P50HDM's RGB or HDMI inputs just remember to set the brightness, contrast, and sharpness back on your scaler so the resulting grayscales have headroom and pictures don't exhibit excessive ringing. Also, make sure you correctly match the acceptable input resolutions. Otherwise, you'll get a blank screen and the P50HDM will quickly go into hibernation.

The P50HDM doesn't scrimp on audio power, either. The internal speakers are plenty loud enough for use in large rooms. You'll be setting volume levels within the first 30% of the setting for normal listening much higher than that, and you'll be shouting to hear each other over the din.

CONCLUSION

If you already have a set-top box capable of showing HD signals and/or a progressive-scan DVD player, the P50HDM is attractively priced and well worth a look. For $2500, it does deliver the goods, as long as you can get into the service menu to set up image parameters correctly and calibrate white balance. It looks best with progressive-scan video, but can handle analog NTSC and baseband video if need be, thanks to its DCDi circuit.

For those of you concerned about energy consumption, I have begun logging power consumption data for all displays I test, using the Watts Up? Pro meter.

I turned the P50HDM on to the INHD cable network in Movie mode, and let it run for 6 hours. During that time, average power consumption was 411 watts and I logged a total of 2088.6 kWh of energy usage. Figuring electric rates at $0.08/hour, your cost to run this TV for 180 hours (6 hours per day X 30 days) would be $5.01.

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post #297 of 4456 Old 03-14-2006, 01:30 PM
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For $2500, it does deliver the goods, as long as you can get into the service menu to set up image parameters correctly and calibrate white balance.

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post #298 of 4456 Old 03-14-2006, 08:04 PM
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I would like to know this as well. I understand it relates to week of manufacturing, but I am curious if people from different build's have noticed differences in the buzzing/fan noise.

Ok so I have my G02 up and running, and it's suffering from the loud power supply issue - straight out of the box. I don't think it will be much of a problem, considering I will have surround sound setup to drown it out, but I did call Vizio and talked to Ken. He said THIS IS ACCORDING TO DESIGN because of the LG glass and the extra power required to display the bright colors. He recommended placing the unit as close to the wall as possible, and putting something behind it to dampen the sound (in a large room). He also offered to replace the power supply, but said it would be 50/50 it may or may not help, since it's as design.

Since I bought it from the membership wholesaler, I will wait to see what the response is when members here get the newer model, and take this one back for a newer revision.

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post #299 of 4456 Old 03-15-2006, 12:43 AM
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I haven't seen this review before
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Vizio P50HDM Plasma Monitor

PETER PUTMAN, CTS

(snip)

At first glance, a stereo audio connection for an HDMI input is redundant - HDMI is a true multimedia interface and carries wideband digital audio. I can only assume this connection was intended for that accessory Humax tuner, I product I tested some time ago that did not implement the audio interface in HDMI, only video. (Don't worry; the HDMI interface on the P50HDM does play back audio from compatible signal sources.)

Well I'm surprised this "Peter Putman" character who apparently knows so much about TV's doesn't know what the extra audio connection on the HDMI part is for....how about all those people who have DVI outputs? DVI doesn't carry audio, and can easily be used on the HDMI input.
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post #300 of 4456 Old 03-15-2006, 05:56 AM
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I looked at the actual article and from what it sounds like, he just called Vizio and asked for the service code. I guess one of the people here who owns a set could call ? Or maybe you have to pose as a reviewer?
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