NEC 50XR5, 42XR4, 61XR4 Settings, Tweaks and Issues Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 148 Old 12-25-2006, 07:54 AM
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I'll bite on the "Low Tone" setting.

It controls the dithering algorithm used for low lowel, i.e. low brightness signals. On my 61XR4 there are 3 settings.

The best results are with "3" which uses an error diffusion algorithm.
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post #122 of 148 Old 12-25-2006, 07:56 AM
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Hello NEC people,

Posted this a while ago as a separate thread but got no response. Hope some of you can help here. I know it is long but thought others might find a disscussion of these questions useful as well.

Background: I began looking for a display earlier this year. Middle of this year I read through most of the long NEC thread and as a result became very interested in that display. I had previously assumed I would need a VP to get an outstanding picture but CPCAT's experiences with Lumagen, a fine VP, combined with a NEC display convinced me of NEC's quality and I was thrilled to find I would not need to buy a VP.

I did, however, want to wait for the first surface filter technology from Pioneer to trickle over to the NEC (50) as I believe that is a substantive improvement. So the new models are upon us and after reading the brochures for the soon to be released 2007 displays I have some questions that I hope you more knowledgeable NEC people can answer. Hopefully the discussion of these questions will prove interesting to others.

(Question #1 - Number of Colors - 50XR/XM 5 differs from the XR/XM6 series) My primary reason for choosing a NEC is its video processing and my first question has to do with apparent changes in this area. The 50XR5/XM5 and other 2006 displays promoted a feature called Gamma 12 providing 68.7 billion colors, 4096 steps for each of the RGB primaries. I assume the 12 in the name refers to 12 bit processing for each of the RGB values, which yields 4096 steps; at least throughout some part of the video path which would include the color decoder and video DAC. I am too ignorant about the rest of the path to know if the 12 bits carries through the entire path.

The new 2007 displays have dropped the Gamma 12 feature but have added what they call Dynamic Gamma Correction. The number of colors has regressed to 1.07 billion (1/64th) the number indicating new 10 bit processing instead.

Clearly, and regardless of what the marketing department names the features, this appears to be a substantial change in the video processor. I am not clear what if any visible difference fewer colors make but I am more concerned whether NEC has fundamentally changed their fine processor. Have they, for instance, adopted some or all of Pioneer's processor along with the glass or have they perhaps cheapened their own for price competitive reasons? These are the questions that go through my head, call me cynical, as I read their brochure. I make the Pioneer comment because I see similar though differently named features on some Pioneer displays that make me wonder.

Finally on this subject of number of colors let me display my ignorance; but be kind as I am trying to learn. Does this color related spec make a difference only if processing a non-RGB signal? I assume that an RGB signal will already have gone through this type of processing before entering the display. If so, then what of HDMI signals such as from a DVD or STB? Are these RGB?

(Question #2 - underscan mode) Advertised last year dropped this year from the brochure. Is it just dropped from the brochure or is it dropped from the display? I thought this important for attaining 1:1 pixel mapping and proper native rate processing. But again I am ignorant so help me out.

(Question #3 - XR vs XM series) The vertical frequency range spec is quite different. The XR consumer goes to 85Hz while the commercial XM extends to 120Hz. I assume this is a function of the bandwidth of the electronics. If so, then does the considerably wider bandwidth of the commercial display have significance for the comparative PQ of these displays? Is this a sign of better electronics in the commercial displays?

(Question #4 - ISF and service menu controls) If I don't get my display ISF calibrated, I am going to do it myself with a quality meter and associated software. I am looking at several. It will be more expensive if I do it myself but I will have the satisfaction and learn a lot. It is a hobby after all!

Does anyone know how an owner goes about getting access to the ISF controls? Are they simply in the service menu or are they further protected in some covert fashion? If I purchase the display, then I certainly expect to be allowed access to all controls. Yes I understand the risks and am preparing myself before the time comes with all the reading I can do regarding color science and calibration.

(Question #5 - Gamma adjustments) Does anyone know if the NEC has, in addition to its global user-level gamma adjustment, lower-level gamma adjustments that treat each primary separately? This is important for best grey scale tracking. If available, I assume these would be in the service menu. Probably the ISFccc controls. In fact, does NEC produce a service manual documenting the service menu controls? I would need one.

(Question #6 - DVI-D w/HDCP vs. HDMI) Is there any functional difference besides the physical connector between these connections? While I like the approach of separating video and audio paths and connecting video sources directly to the display, I am reconsidering switching video sources through a receiver. If I do this, then a single connector may be all I need at the display. In this case, if the DVI-D can effectively be feed from the HDMI out of the receiver without compromise, then the commercial display becomes feasible. I think it does not have the silver accent which is minor but a plus in the looks department.

(Question #7 - connections consumer vs. commercial) Exactly which connections for 2007 will accept 1080p for each display and should I care? I will primarily have a DVD (oppo) and an HD STB (D* or Dish). Eventually I will hook up a PC too and a HD/BR in time.

Sorry for the length. Please contribute if you know. Thanks in advance. I am leaning toward a NEC and want to make a reasoned decision.

Cheers,

Gary
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post #123 of 148 Old 12-25-2006, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

I'll bite on the "Low Tone" setting.

It controls the dithering algorithm used for low lowel, i.e. low brightness signals. On my 61XR4 there are 3 settings.

The best results are with "3" which uses an error diffusion algorithm.

Thanks,

I notice the xr6 has dropped the #3 setting. Wonder what the difference was and just what the algorithims are trying to do.

Any insight to the other questions?

Cheers,

Gary
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post #124 of 148 Old 01-08-2007, 05:07 AM
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gary i have the nec and a;; i can say its the best out there,,,very underated
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post #125 of 148 Old 01-08-2007, 07:50 AM
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Gary,

NEC support is very responsive; have you tried sending a copy of your questions to them? You might end up on the phone with an engineer!
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post #126 of 148 Old 03-06-2007, 08:54 AM
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I thought this post would be better here....

I would like to make sure I have this correct.
What setting should we have our DVD players set to? [480i-p, 720p, and 1080i > (1080p?)] Is determined by how good our displays scalar is and how good the DVD player's scalar is, correct?
One of those DVD settings will work best with one of the various displays. Now, with the NECxr5 we have six memories setting, so we have the ability to have 6 different calibration setting.
So we can test the different PQ setting with [480i-p, 720p, 1080i]. So is there any factor that we should look at before we go all this into this? < Low temp and gamma1.1. May be quite different than: mid. Color temp w/ gamma1, NR1, and different contrast levels<<br /> · I thought I read that one should set their DVD player {mine Oppo 970) to 720p when calibrating with AVIA. I have had my xr5>15 months now and think that I will need to recalibrate a couple of my memory setting. The PQ seems to have changed. The PQ is still great. Your thoughts?
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post #127 of 148 Old 03-06-2007, 09:32 AM
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I use an HTPC as my DVD player for 1:1 pixel mapping, but here's my general comments.

Which resolution you choose for your DVD player is determined by which unit has the best de-interlacer and the best scaler. Ultimately, the only way to figure this out is to check every setting.

Where it gets complicated is that depending on the player, when they upconvert to HD resolutions (720p and 1080i) they MAY also be changing the colourspace of the signal to conform to HD standards (Rec 709 vs Rec 601 which is what the DVD is authored in). One other things that could happen are shifting of the black level reference.

Assuming you properly calibrate brightness/contrast for each input resolution you should be able to make a fair comparison.
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post #128 of 148 Old 03-06-2007, 09:59 AM
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I see DCypher's 1:1 pixel mapping settings for 50XR5.
Has anyone determined 1:1 pixel mapping settings when using an Nvidia card and a 42XR4?

Jeremy

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post #129 of 148 Old 03-06-2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAB View Post

I thought this post would be better here....

I would like to make sure I have this correct.
What setting should we have our DVD players set to? [480i-p, 720p, and 1080i > (1080p?)] Is determined by how good our displays scalar is and how good the DVD player's scalar is, correct?
One of those DVD settings will work best with one of the various displays. Now, with the NECxr5 we have six memories setting, so we have the ability to have 6 different calibration setting.
So we can test the different PQ setting with [480i-p, 720p, 1080i]. So is there any factor that we should look at before we go all this into this? < Low temp and gamma1.1. May be quite different than: mid. Color temp w/ gamma1, NR1, and different contrast levels<<br /> · I thought I read that one should set their DVD player {mine Oppo 970) to 720p when calibrating with AVIA. I have had my xr5>15 months now and think that I will need to recalibrate a couple of my memory setting. The PQ seems to have changed. The PQ is still great. Your thoughts?

Here is a link to my comparison of the 970 and 971 on the XR5:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7962776

I also agree with jvincent's comments. Once you find the best output setting, you need to further calibrate to optimize your viewing experience.
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post #130 of 148 Old 03-08-2007, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAB View Post

I thought this post would be better here....

I would like to make sure I have this correct.
What setting should we have our DVD players set to? [480i-p, 720p, and 1080i > (1080p?)] Is determined by how good our displays scalar is and how good the DVD player's scalar is, correct?
One of those DVD settings will work best with one of the various displays. Now, with the NECxr5 we have six memories setting, so we have the ability to have 6 different calibration setting.
So we can test the different PQ setting with [480i-p, 720p, 1080i]. So is there any factor that we should look at before we go all this into this? < Low temp and gamma1.1. May be quite different than: mid. Color temp w/ gamma1, NR1, and different contrast levels<<br /> · I thought I read that one should set their DVD player {mine Oppo 970) to 720p when calibrating with AVIA. I have had my xr5>15 months now and think that I will need to recalibrate a couple of my memory setting. The PQ seems to have changed. The PQ is still great. Your thoughts?

I discussed this at length last year with NEC and I guess this thread has grown since I posted the discussions. What they told me was that the XR5 works best with 720p if you're not able to feed it native 768p. From my own eyes, looking at the Oppo logo when you first turn it on somewhat bears this out. As I looked at the letters on the initial startup screen in 480i, 540i,720p, and 1080i, 720 looked the best to me. But those are my eyes looking at it. You might see otherwise, but according to NEC, go with 720p.
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post #131 of 148 Old 03-09-2007, 09:34 AM
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AN AVS member said he thought 480i was the way to go-because of the better scalar in xr5, But i too thought(oppo 970) the PQ was a little better defined in720p. However, when i avia cal> my settings. I might have not had the DVD@720p. I will recalibrate this weekend and see whats up-- *note everyone who has seen a movie comment on how 3D and depth and colors look fantastic...
db
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post #132 of 148 Old 10-04-2007, 05:08 AM
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Hi,
I have an XM3, have done almost no tweaking of the settings as I found "theatre 2" great almost out of the box. However, over time (2 years) i have got frustrated with the black levels. Recently, I noticed that setting "Bright" instead of "Theatre 1/2" gives me better blacks but the picture is more grainy. I would appreciate any thoughts NEC owners may have to help me better calibrate my set.

NB: Most posts here relate to the XR4 and later, not sure if this relates to a difference in model nrs between the UK and US?

Ex
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post #133 of 148 Old 10-04-2007, 05:44 AM
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I have an XM4, which came out a year after your model. I believe the black levels of the older NECs are just OK, good shawdow detail, but not the inky blacks of a Panny.

The XM models are the "Professional" models, whereas the XR models are the "Consumer" models. I chose the XM model due to the charcoal bezel color as opposed the silver color of the consumer. At that time, there were not significant differeneces between the Consumer and Professional models. The following year they did away with the silver bezel on the consumer model and added the HDMI inputs so few people on this forum seemed to buy the XM series anymore.
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post #134 of 148 Old 10-05-2007, 01:01 AM
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Hi CorrysD, ok so the models are the same as the UK, from memory the changes on the XM4 from the XM3 were not that significant in the UK. Could I ask what settings you use to get your preferred picture please? Andy
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post #135 of 148 Old 10-05-2007, 05:12 AM
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I hope these settings help. I have a DirecTV HD DVR connected via a HDMI/DVI cable.

Picture
Contrast 39
Brightness 40
Sharpness 10
Color 27
Tint 31

Picture Mode Normal
NR2

Colors
Red 30
Green 30
Blue 32
Yellow 31
Magenta 30
Cyan 32

COLOR TEMP
GainRed 46
GainGreen 37
The rest are at the default settings.
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post #136 of 148 Old 10-09-2007, 03:14 AM
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Are you using a specific picture setting before you adjust the settings, i.e. I can choose from Default, Bright, Normal, Theatre 1, Theatre 2. By default each setting is set in the middle but they all display completely different pictures. e.g. Bright is more black but also more grainy.
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post #137 of 148 Old 10-09-2007, 04:48 AM
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Picture Mode Normal
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post #138 of 148 Old 10-17-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:

I'm trying these timings on my 50XR5 with a 7600GT over HDMI, the display info show memory18, but my image isn't full screen? I have a 4 pixel border going around the image. What am I missing? Is my image underscanned or the timing isn't right? I don't think this is 1:1 mapping yet it says 1365x768 MEMORY 18?

I've also tried the lumagen settings too:
VTOT 788 HTOT 1526
VACT 768 HACT 1365
VSYN 4 HSYN 50
VFRN 4 HFRN 51

V freq. 60.00 Hz
H freq. 47.20 Hz

Same result with unused picture border, except I don't have to shift the picture horizonally.

I've fiddled with all the video card settings with the latest NVIDIA drivers, i.e. scale at the display, etc
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post #139 of 148 Old 11-22-2007, 05:19 PM
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I need the service menu codes, can some PM me these please?

thanks
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post #140 of 148 Old 01-01-2008, 09:09 PM
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Some months ago I lost my modified settings (it all reset to factory defaults) for my 50XM5 so I came back here to get away from those factory settings. The TDAVIS settings on page four are a great improvement. Blacks and whites especially are a major improvement. I am only sorry it too me so long to adjust.
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post #141 of 148 Old 02-07-2008, 10:28 AM
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So the 50XR5 has two HDMI inputs, and since I'm using one port with my HTPC via DVI, this leaves the other port free for a PS3 etc.

So I set the HDMI level to "LOW" since I am feeding it a "PC signal", but I notice that I can't set the HDMI level per HDMI port? Is that right???

How do you get around with using both an HTPC and BLURAY/PS3 when plugged into the NEC with different HDMI levels??
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post #142 of 148 Old 02-07-2008, 10:33 AM
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From my experience with my HTPC and Xbox 360 you should be using LOW for the HDMI level on both.

If you need to adjust one of them differently the "Setup Level" that is configurable per input has the same effect as changing HDMI level.
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post #143 of 148 Old 04-01-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

From my experience with my HTPC and Xbox 360 you should be using LOW for the HDMI level on both.

If you need to adjust one of them differently the "Setup Level" that is configurable per input has the same effect as changing HDMI level.

Oh..so setting "setup level" to 7.5 when HDMI is set to LOW, is the same as HDMI set to HIGH?
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post #144 of 148 Old 04-01-2008, 02:09 PM
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Yep, I believe that is the case.
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post #145 of 148 Old 05-15-2008, 05:53 AM
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Anyone have a set of SPEAKER MOUNTING BRACKETS for the PX-SP2U/B speakers for the 50XR5? If you have purchased the 42XR4 or 61XR4 display and purchased the matching PX-SP2U/B speakers you should have a set of 50" mounting brackets in the hardware package unused. I am in need of the 50" brackets. NEC wants over $120 for the brackets which are 4 pieces of sheet metal about 2" x 3"!
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post #146 of 148 Old 06-03-2008, 10:30 AM
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Hi,

I used to followed DCypher's 1:1 mapping settings with an old XP nVidia 7600 control panel. It had been working quite well for me since 2006.

I just upgraded my PC with Vista Premium and so I had to download the lastest driver from nVidia. I tried to tranfer the settings over to the new control panel but I couldn't get it to work. The new control panel is different from the DCypher's picture for 50xr5timings.

Has anyone able to get 1:1 mapping on the NEC 50XR5 using the new nVidia Control Panel in Vista?

I would appreciate your help very much.

Thanks,

Duc
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post #147 of 148 Old 10-13-2008, 07:13 PM
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I own a 50XM5 and I have been feeding it a signal from my Anthem D2 and I am watching The Phillies and Dodgers game which is coming in OTA at 1080i and it looks really fantastic.

Also, I do feed it 1080P from my Sharp Aquos DVD player via HDMI and the picture is truly fantastic. The NES does what it does with the signal, and I am very happy.

Yes, this thread is a bit dated, but not my monitor!
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post #148 of 148 Old 10-13-2008, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclejeff View Post

I own a 50XM5 and I have been feeding it a signal from my Anthem D2 and I am watching The Phillies and Dodgers game which is coming in OTA at 1080i and it looks really fantastic.

Also, I do feed it 1080P from my Sharp Aquos DVD player via HDMI and the picture is truly fantastic. The NES does what it does with the signal, and I am very happy.

Yes, this thread is a bit dated, but not my monitor!

Whatever my Mitsubishi NEC is, I'm still awed by it


bob
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