Panasonic TH-50PX60U unacceptable picture quality / Options? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Two days ago I returned a 3 week old Panasonic TH-50PX50U
and purchased a brand new TH-50PX60U. I decided to do this after reading
the impressive specifications for the new model, plus the additional HDMI
input it offers, huge contrast ratio improvement, etc.

Now I wish I had a time machine to go back, listen
to my wife’s advice, and leave the “old†TH-50PX50U hanging on my
entertainment room wall : (

The TH-50PX60U turns to be a nightmare, as I can’t watch
the distorted and unreal “clay faces†anymore. Faces
look cartoon-like most of the time, reminding me of some Photoshop paint
effects.

I tried all possible picture adjustments to fix this, even trying different
video sources, but I can’t. ( I watch mostly HDTV programming via Direct-TV).

From what I have read on postings, this problem must be related to some newer
digital process like the “Samsung DNIe Visionâ€. I don’t like it, and I cannot
believe Panasonic does not include a control to deactivate this setting.

Questions:

1= Can the service menu be accessed to disconnect or adjust the digital
(whatever digital) process this model has?

2= If I can’t fix this and have to return the TH-50PX60U, what other 50’ plasma
brand / models should I consider ? (with not fixed digital “correctorsâ€, of
course)

Before purchasing the Panasonic, some people recommend me the Fujitsu
saying that the circuitry design and picture quality are the top (also their
price). Any experiences?

I’ll appreciate any help regarding how to solve this problem.

Thanks in advance,
Paul
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post #2 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 03:52 PM
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first off, dont watch it on vivid. the difference is like night and day.
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post #3 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 03:54 PM
 
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Nope, you're doing something wrong. Either you left it in vivid, have the settings way too high, or are using bad sources.
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post #4 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 03:57 PM
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Maybe a defective unit? If you were happy with the PX50 PQ then you should be happy with the PX60. Just return it for the PX50 then.
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post #5 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 04:34 PM
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Sounds like someone is watching VIVID mode. This is a leading cause of quantization (or clay face as you call it).
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post #6 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 04:42 PM
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I use Vivid on my 42PX50U and i never get Clayface.

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post #7 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiPaul
Two days ago I returned a 3 week old Panasonic TH-50PX50U
and purchased a brand new TH-50PX60U. I decided to do this after reading
the impressive specifications for the new model, plus the additional HDMI
input it offers, huge contrast ratio improvement, etc.

Now I wish I had a time machine to go back, listen
to my wife’s advice, and leave the “old†TH-50PX50U hanging on my
entertainment room wall : (

The TH-50PX60U turns to be a nightmare, as I can’t watch
the distorted and unreal “clay faces†anymore. Faces
look cartoon-like most of the time, reminding me of some Photoshop paint
effects.

I tried all possible picture adjustments to fix this, even trying different
video sources, but I can’t. ( I watch mostly HDTV programming via Direct-TV).

From what I have read on postings, this problem must be related to some newer
digital process like the “Samsung DNIe Visionâ€. I don’t like it, and I cannot
believe Panasonic does not include a control to deactivate this setting.

Questions:

1= Can the service menu be accessed to disconnect or adjust the digital
(whatever digital) process this model has?

2= If I can’t fix this and have to return the TH-50PX60U, what other 50’ plasma
brand / models should I consider ? (with not fixed digital “correctorsâ€, of
course)

Before purchasing the Panasonic, some people recommend me the Fujitsu
saying that the circuitry design and picture quality are the top (also their
price). Any experiences?

I’ll appreciate any help regarding how to solve this problem.

Thanks in advance,
Paul
-----------

Are you still seeing clay face? did you get it on the 50U as well?
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post #8 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all you, but I am not watching on Vivid mode, and it is not
my particular unit since I went to Best Buys and the display unit does
the same.

I am very used to watching video signals in my job, but I still do not
know how to fix this (or if it can be done). I am sure it is a digital
process causing this that I see and the only solution is to disengage
it (if the unit allows it). Let me also make clear that for the first
3 days we did not notice a problem, we watched a movie and a documentary.
Then we tuned to Jay Leno and his face looked like a plastic mask. Started
changing channels and saw the same effect on similar programs or news
reports.

Anybody in the service business knows how Panasonic calls this process in
order to identify it in the menu?

BTW: here is a link to a video process by Samsung that seems to be similar
to what I see:

Thanks again,
Paul
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post #9 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry...here is the link to a video process by Samsung:

http://www.samsung.com/in/products/t...info/index.htm
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post #10 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 05:28 PM
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Some of the Sharps had clayface last year and I believe it was fixed via firmware and I bought the version after the clayface issue but that has been history since Sharp resolved it last Fall. Perhaps it's something similar but I don't think you are the only one that has reported the event but I do not recall it being reported on the 50/500 series. Hopefully you can do an exchange or a firmware fix is similar to Sharp's fix. Can you reset the panel? Perhaps a bad setting has been defaulted in the menu that you aren't seeing. Seems as if a reset should be avaible to default to it's original settings. Good Luck! :)

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post #11 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 05:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiPaul
Thanks to all you, but I am not watching on Vivid mode, and it is not
my particular unit since I went to Best Buys and the display unit does
the same.

I am very used to watching video signals in my job, but I still do not
know how to fix this (or if it can be done). I am sure it is a digital
process causing this that I see and the only solution is to disengage
it (if the unit allows it). Let me also make clear that for the first
3 days we did not notice a problem, we watched a movie and a documentary.
Then we tuned to Jay Leno and his face looked like a plastic mask. Started
changing channels and saw the same effect on similar programs or news
reports.

Anybody in the service business knows how Panasonic calls this process in
order to identify it in the menu?

BTW: here is a link to a video process by Samsung that seems to be similar
to what I see:

Thanks again,
Paul
------------------

Panny does not have anything like Samsung's DNie processing which cannot be turned off. Usually, in the picture setting itself you should be able to see all enhanced digital processing options that you can turn off.

Perhaps it may be helpful if you posted your settings and compare it to others. I am 100% sure there are folks on this forum who own an Panny 60U series and have set it up so as not to see clay face.

I have a friend who has one and on one of the threads I mentioned that despite my initial reservations about the 60U, once I saw it in action in a home setting I was extremely impressed. I have spent a fair deal of time looking and evaluating various plasmas and the fact that I now find myself liking the Panny picture is because they don't show the artifacting or un-natural colors that I see in plasmas from other vendors. Now what is un-natural to me, could easily by natural and preferred by someone else.

In your case it looks like you will probably need to return your Panny and get another set with an image quality more in tune with what you prefer. My advice that after removing the 60U from Vivid to standard and cinema mode, if it did not improve the clay-face that you see I would be fairly certain that there is no setting that will impress you!

I would have said it may be your source, but you say that everytime you have seen the 60U you have noticed it. I have read others who have also said the same about the 60U. Appears to be a love-hate relationship between the 60U and the owners (with more love I assume :))

Sorry to hear that the 60U did not work out for best. Best of luck with whatever else you do end up with :D
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post #12 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 06:21 PM
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DigiPaul would you be willing to trade your 50PX60U for my 50" 8UK? It's practically brand new plus we live very close to each other.
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post #13 of 61 Old 04-28-2006, 07:40 PM
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I'm starting to get suspicious about Panasonic's new 60U series. About two weeks ago I was at the local Compusmart viewing their 42PX60U, and despite turning the sharpness all the way down, vivid mode off, etc. I couldn't decrease the clayface by more than about 25% from torch mode - it was still there in a very obvious way.

It seems the new 60U series has non-defeatable hardware sharpening. So if I was in the market for Panasonic plasma, I'd stick with the 50U or 8UK series. Looks like the 60U has jumped the shark.
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post #14 of 61 Old 04-29-2006, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiPaul
Thanks to all you, but I am not watching on Vivid mode, and it is not
my particular unit since I went to Best Buys and the display unit does
the same.

I am very used to watching video signals in my job, but I still do not
know how to fix this (or if it can be done). I am sure it is a digital
process causing this that I see and the only solution is to disengage
it (if the unit allows it). Let me also make clear that for the first
3 days we did not notice a problem, we watched a movie and a documentary.
Then we tuned to Jay Leno and his face looked like a plastic mask. Started
changing channels and saw the same effect on similar programs or news
reports.

Anybody in the service business knows how Panasonic calls this process in
order to identify it in the menu?

BTW: here is a link to a video process by Samsung that seems to be similar
to what I see:

Thanks again,
Paul
Paul,
Turn the sharpness to -15 on Standard mode (lower if need be). I set my friends there and he has no clayface on a 50PX60U. BYW: When I was first shopping for a plasma (I have a 500U) I saw clayface on every 50U/500U Panasonic I saw. I couldn't believe everyone (on this forum) was so thrilled with this set. I even posted something about it (one of my first posts) but no one replied. Finally I got hold of a remote at CC and saw how good they could look. Give this a try...
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post #15 of 61 Old 04-29-2006, 08:24 AM
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turning the sharpness to -15 should solve a ton of clayface issues. I once ask the BB guys why are the tvs on the floor not tweaked to show them in the best light, he replied they try to leave all at factory default.

pany factory defaults are horibble.

try these settings.

Picture +12
Brightness +5
Color -2
Tint -5
Sharpness -3
Color Temp: Normal
Color mng.: On

Video NR: Off
3D Y/C filter: greyed out
Color matrix: greyed out
MPEG NR: Off
Black Level: Light

these were posted by a another user from this forum and I used them on my sister in law new pany x60U. she loves it
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post #16 of 61 Old 05-01-2006, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks to RicheyPoor, Shinraven, and to all you.

You are right RicheyPoor, turning down the sharpness to -15 and lowering the contrast
help a lot. And after visiting Costco and Best-Buy this past weekend and seeing that
ALL HDTVs display some sort of clay face effect at some moment, I have changed
my mind about returning my 50PX60

I may still need to get used to Direct-TV sometimes changing the compression ratio and
overall video equalization (for better and for worse). Last weekend I grabbed
my photo camera to shoot some pictures to upload here (to better show what I called
my clay face problem) but I couldnt find any program on Direct-TV
showing a picture as bad as a few days ago when I first
watched my 50PX60. My wife and I could not believe how much
better this Fridays Jay Leno looked when compared to the same show the day before!

I believe this new 50PX60 contrast ratio,
color and sharpness surpass all other plasma
displays on the market today. The video response and the fact that it displays
more colors and far better gray tones linearity must create some sort of new
challenge to the not always perfect HDTV programming available today, and
because of this (like several people advised me here), picture values must be lowered
to extremes we are not used to.

Im uploading 2 pictures I took during the last Friday Jay Leno show, as I believe
they show the big difference when lowering just the sharpness and contrasts parameters.

When tweaked, this 50PX60 displays an impressive quality picture. I watched a Discovery HD
documentary and an ESPN soccer game and it was better than being there.

My indicial disappointment was product of the high default video settings
(I still cant believe the *Vivid* one!) and the uneven quality of DirecTV lately.

I have a couple of weeks to return my 50PX60 if I decide to, but Im happy with it now.
There is still something about the black level adjustment that I cant figure out, the
light seems sometimes too light, and dark goes to the other extreme to my taste.

Ill also order the service manual, just in case there is any tweaking available
and buried under names or codes impossible to identify by now.

Thanks again to all you, and Ill let you know if I learn something new to share.

Regards,
Paul
LL
LL
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post #17 of 61 Old 05-01-2006, 08:03 PM
 
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That picture you posted looks like the Panny 60 series are displaying like Pioneer! I certainly don't mind "vividness". Black levels are ultimately important, but I like vivid colors more than natural color. It's very refreshing. Are you still working on the blacks? How are blacks on default? It should be good, no? Or maybe you can't tell because vividness is bothering your eyes. Turn down the vividness and check out the blacks. Once you confirmed the blacks are good, jack up that color!!! Stong colors and brightness gives more "life".

Think twice before you return the TV... This TV "could" turn out to be better. There's old saying "Good things happen to those who wait", which is similar to "Good things happen to those who have pain now".
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post #18 of 61 Old 05-01-2006, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiPaul
Many thanks to RicheyPoor, Shinraven, and to all you.

You are right RicheyPoor, turning down the sharpness to -15 and lowering the contrast help a lot...
...When tweaked, this 50PX60 displays an impressive quality picture. I watched a Discovery HD documentary and an ESPN soccer game and it was better than being there.

There is still something about the black level adjustment that I can’t figure out, the
“light†seems sometimes too light, and “dark†goes to the other extreme to my taste.

I’ll also order the service manual, just in case there is any tweaking available
and buried under names or codes impossible to identify by now.

Thanks again to all you, and Ill let you know if I learn something new to share.

Regards,
Paul
Paul,
I'm glad you're now happy with the set. To properly adjust your Brightness (black level) and Picture controls I'd invest in a DVE or Avia DVD. With those set properly I think you'll be even more impressed. Good luck with your new TV!
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post #19 of 61 Old 05-01-2006, 09:45 PM
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I just saw a 42PX60U at my local frys. I had previously seen the 50" model at best buy, and thought it looked awful since it was in vivid mode and I couldn't change it. After playing around with the 42PX60U I managed to get a picture that I thought looked very nice. I turned off all the color management and noise reduction and used cinema mode with all the other settings adjusted to what looked best to me. Vivid looked horrid to me, Standard looked ok, but cinema looked by far the best to me (atleast on the smallville they had playing). I could see the clayface and extreme graininess issues in Vivid, but once I set up cinema mode things looked great to me.
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post #20 of 61 Old 05-01-2006, 10:59 PM
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its a real shame that panasonic sends out these tvs in this default crap +15 sharpness. My sister in law was shocked how good the tv looked once i tweaked.

glad it worked out for you. if you find any new cool settings, please share.
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post #21 of 61 Old 05-01-2006, 11:18 PM
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Man...my 500u blows that away. You must have a terrible quality feed. Even Pioneers don't look that bad ;)

My HT

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post #22 of 61 Old 05-01-2006, 11:53 PM
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Form time to time, I see clayface on analog SD channels with a poor signal. In our case, it usually seems to be the quality of the feed that Comcast receives from the channel-provider...

Geo
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post #23 of 61 Old 05-02-2006, 04:20 AM
 
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Panasonic made significant changes to it's video processor for the PX60U series, perhaps an improperly adjusted display has an increased propensity to render a clay face like picture?

"Viera's V-Real Technology

V-Real is the collective name for Panasonic's innovative picture-enhancing technologies. Proud to produce Viera's key devices in-house, from processor to driver to panel. Panasonic ensures the very best in plasma performance. The V-Real processor processes the raw video signal it receives, outputting an incredibly high-quality signal recognised by the driver.

Crisp and Clear images made possible with V-Real

The PX60 range includes a new digital processing chip-set which processes the HD video signal in its original condition, without down conversion. Meanwhile, the Digital Re-Mastering Processor up-converts standard definition video signals to provide highly expressive images with exceptional detail.

Thanks to V-Real Gamma Control, maximum 11.5 bit video processing makes it possible to reproduce an outstanding 29 billion colours with 3,072 equivalent steps of gradation. The picture noise and black blocking that occur with insufficient gradation is suppressed even in scenes with intimate detail, resulting in rich texture to even the finest movie details.

Bright and beautiful colours made possible with V-Real

Panasonic's V-Real technology offers vibrancy and richness to blacks and colours. The Advanced 3D Colour Management System achieves precise control based on 3D management in the colour difference plane and brightness directions. Colour, brightness and luminosity are independently detected to produce the optimal quality in each, resulting in reproduction of colours that are bright and beautiful.

Panasonic's Contrast Management System optimises the contrast by matching it to the images in each scene. Instead of losing gradation by making part of the image too bright or too dark, this new technology applies just the right amount of contrast correction for each part of the scene."
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post #24 of 61 Old 05-02-2006, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1
Man...my 500u blows that away. You must have a terrible quality feed. Even Pioneers don't look that bad ;)
Hey Elemental, can you tell me the settings you watch tv at with your 500u? (i.e. picture, brightness, color, sharpness, tint).

You're like my forum buddy here since you're the only one that I know that has this tv other than me. :D
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post #25 of 61 Old 05-02-2006, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloy
Hey Elemental, can you tell me the settings you watch tv at with your 500u? (i.e. picture, brightness, color, sharpness, tint).

You're like my forum buddy here since you're the only one that I know that has this tv other than me. :D
Sure. I turned down most of the settings for break-in. Check my photos in the photo gallery. I changed them a little since then because I am almost out of the first 100 hrs. I think I like cinema best @ +5, +5, 0 , 0, 0. By no means am I done with optimizing the settings but it does seem to look pretty nice even at these settings.

Edit: I think we should have a more detailed thread with only settings from users.

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post #26 of 61 Old 05-02-2006, 11:42 AM
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please post that thread will the settings once it is made and only for settings.
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post #27 of 61 Old 05-02-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1
. . . . I think we should have a more detailed thread with only settings from users.
Someone already started such a thread several days ago but nobody has responded yet . . . .

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=672072

The master PX60 thread is also supposed to cover settings among other things so the topic is getting scattered among three threads now. :eek:

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post #28 of 61 Old 05-02-2006, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters
Someone already started such a thread several days ago but nobody has responded yet . . . .
That thread is specific to the 42PX60 though.....maybe general 50/500 & 60/600 setting threads would be nice sticky's :)

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post #29 of 61 Old 05-14-2006, 11:41 PM
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hello paul

I purchased a th50px60 on the weekend and had a concern of "clay" looking faces that I saw on a unit in a bb store. I connected on the weekend and am totally astounded by the picture and have no problems with clay looking faces on either regular definition sources or on hdtv sources. I am very pleased with my purchase. I am using the tv on its default settings and am connected to bell expressvu in canada which is the same as direct tv. Facial features look natural and I would have to examine my tv to see what the settings are but they are basically factory default settings. I currently have it connected via the component inputs. i will be connecting via hdmi soon so I will see what it looks like then.
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post #30 of 61 Old 05-15-2006, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retlawv
I purchased a th50px60 on the weekend . . . . . I am using the tv on its default settings . . . . I would have to examine my tv to see what the settings are but they are basically factory default settings. I currently have it connected via the component inputs. i will be connecting via hdmi soon so I will see what it looks like then.
The factory default settings are way too punchy and intense to use during the panel's first 100-200 hours of life. You need to break it in properly by going into the menu and taking it out of VIVID mode (use Standard or Cinema) and turn the Picture setting and Brightness settings down considerably during break in. And avoid black bars completely, or limit them to very short periods until the panel has several hundred hours on it. This is kinda important.

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR333, URC R40 Remote.
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