Pioneer's NEW 7th Generation Plasmas for 2006-2007 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by leisureg View Post

and that is my basic question. Will the 50" Pioneer Pro-FHD1 have a noticeably better picture on lets say CBS-HD broadcasts versus the 5070 watching CBS-HD at 9 feet? It is all confusing but the Pioneer Pro-FHD1 specs says it upconverts the signal. I was just wondering if this upconverting will be noticeable and worth the $4K difference in price

At 9 feet on a 50 inch screen, you'd qualify as being able to see the difference. For this much cash though, I'd see it first (preferrably even side by side with the 5070) before buying if I were you.
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post #362 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Not a dumb question at all. You'll get two answers though. One will say "1080p screen resolution is better regardless just because". The other is my answer in that it all depends on screen size/viewing distance. You won't see any differences based on the higher screen resolution alone (assuming all other factors equal) unless you sit close enough or the screen is large enough.



I'd think that all things being equal the 50"1080p panel would allow a smaller viewing distance (compared to a 50" 720p panel) since the picture elements are necessarily smaller, ie, finer. When I compare 42" v. 50" sets from the same manufacturer, for example, the 42" sets have a better picture from the same approx. 6' distance. Consequently the new Pio 50" 1080p should offer better images from a wider range of viewing areas than its 50" 720p sibling. Correct?
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post #363 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 01:34 PM
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Yes. Simply put, you need to sit close to take advantage of the added screen resolution of the FHD-1. This means 9 feet or closer and in fact you can sit as close as 6 feet and still easily be far enough away for the pixel structure to be invisible.
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post #364 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 02:06 PM
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But what about my question as it refers to broadcast HD broadcasts? Would there be a noticeable difference or would the 1080P Pio have the better pic than the 5070. I just am not sure of this upconverting feature
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post #365 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leisureg View Post

But what about my question as it refers to broadcast HD broadcasts? Would there be a noticeable difference or would the 1080P Pio have the better pic than the 5070. I just am not sure of this upconverting feature

Whether you benefit from 1080p screen resolution is independent of the input signal. It depends entirely on screen size/viewing distance considerations. Any theoretical advantage a 1080p screen has with a 1080i input signal will be captured by the screen size/viewing distance consideration anyway.
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post #366 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Yes. Simply put, you need to sit close to take advantage of the added screen resolution of the FHD-1. This means 9 feet or closer and in fact you can sit as close as 6 feet and still easily be far enough away for the pixel structure to be invisible.

I remember viewing the PRO-FHD1 at CES from 3.5 feet (BD source/"Chicken Little") with no visible pixel structure. However on my PRO-1130, the pixel structure becomes visible at 6"- 2" (If I look for it). At 4'- 6" the SDE is overwhelming.

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post #367 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonypaul View Post

At 4'- 6" the SDE is overwhelming.

That does not sound good...


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post #368 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

That does not sound good...

Are you being facetious, who watches a 50" - 720p plasma from less than 5 feet ? I generally watch the 1130 from 7', and I consider the PQ stunning.

PS. Just for reference, my vision is 20/20.

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post #369 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 04:57 PM
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I can't see the pixel structure on my 50 inch 768p until about 5 feet either, I was just trying to give a very safe estimate with the 1080p for those eagle eyes out there.

Overall the watershed estimates I gave are probably overdone as well. In other words, they are biased towards getting a 1080p screen and many probably will still be fine with 768p at even closer distances/larger screen sizes.

Afterall, I wouldn't want to be party to slowing progress.
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post #370 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

I can't see the pixel structure on my 50 inch 768p until about 5 feet either, I was just trying to give a very safe estimate with the 1080p for those eagle eyes out there.

Overall the watershed estimates I gave are probably overdone as well. In other words, they are biased towards getting a 1080p screen and many probably will still be fine with 768p at even closer distances/larger screen sizes.

Afterall, I wouldn't want to be party to slowing progress.

cpcat, thanks for the feedback.

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post #371 of 4252 Old 06-10-2006, 10:16 PM
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Is it true that the new Pioneers plasmas are NOT going to have the separate media box? Is this true for both the Elite and non-Elite series?

Thanks.
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post #372 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harden View Post

Is it true that the new Pioneers plasmas are NOT going to have the separate media box? Is this true for both the Elite and non-Elite series?

Thanks.

That is correct, the media box has been eliminated.
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post #373 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 03:47 AM
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I see much discussion on 1080P and the real difference versus a 768 display and for those that think that a native 1080P display makes no difference I would issue a challenge to see it real life in a very simple smack in front of your face viewing experience with an SXRD 60" displaying from a Sony HD Box "Hawaii". My point is not to sell anyone on SXRD or any better than scenario but to point out just how much better 1080P or i can be on a native display, even the version that doesn't take 1080P.

Simply go to a Circuit City anywhere in the country where they have this setup and cpcat may have mentioned 5'? That's a joke - you can put your eyeballs up to the panel and not see pixels on that feed yet your cannot say that for any other panels in the store except perhaps the new 1080P Samsungs being fed likewise.

My Sharp is a native 1080 display that doesn't take the progressive but hell at 1:1 pixels I can get within less than a foot before seeing any pixeling and that is not being fed via a 1080P Box - and viewing CSI Miami I cannot see any from within inches.

My point is not a better than scenario or tech but that the fill factor on a large panel is just amazing on 1080P Native Displays and when you folks see it on the new Panasonic 65" and the Pio 60" you'll be blown away comparatively just as a 60" SXRD or a 70" Q006 blows away a 3LCD panel and most other technology, add to that the HP, JVC Pro 1080P, the Brillian and now plasma will join. The BONUS is getting a larger panel for HT immersion with kick ass clarity and details a step above.

For those naysayers on 1080P and it's difference I'll be back after Rich Harkness has done his review of both the Pio/Panasonic after he has jaw surgery when he reports the blow you away fill factor with next to no visible pixels (you can bet they'll have a Blu-Ray feeding it). Go see the SXRD or half a dozen other native displays being fed HD and there is a difference and my point is not to be argumentative but rather despite PDP owners not having 1080P previous the fill factor will make a big difference just as it does with LCD and RPTV and FP. Eventually they'll all migrate to 1080P and a price premium is always there for early adopters. Enjoy!

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #374 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 05:27 AM
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I had not seen this posted yet , I guess the 43" panel isnt dead yet.
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_...onomy_id=62-63
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post #375 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 05:31 AM
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Why is Pioneer elimnating the media box? To me - someone is considering either the new Pioneers or the "old" Pioneers - the media box is very attractive due to not having to fish new wire for future peripherials.

Is it just a matter of cost? Do current Pioneer owners not like the media box?

If I'm looking for a non-Elite 50" plasma, then the 5060HD is my best bet, right?
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post #376 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

I see much discussion on 1080P and the real difference versus a 768 display and for those that think that a native 1080P display makes no difference I would issue a challenge to see it real life in a very simple smack in front of your face viewing experience with an SXRD 60" displaying from a Sony HD Box "Hawaii". My point is not to sell anyone on SXRD or any better than scenario but to point out just how much better 1080P or i can be on a native display, even the version that doesn't take 1080P.

Simply go to a Circuit City anywhere in the country where they have this setup and cpcat may have mentioned 5'? That's a joke - you can put your eyeballs up to the panel and not see pixels on that feed yet your cannot say that for any other panels in the store except perhaps the new 1080P Samsungs being fed likewise.

No one said it doesn't make a difference. Whether you'll benefit from 1080p screen resolution is simply based on screen size/viewing distance. Many viewing situations will not allow a close enough viewing distance to justify the added cost. From the S&V article linked in your signature:

If your room layout restricts either your viewing distance or the screen size, you actually have more choices. Say you're limited to a seating distance of around 10 feet and a screen width of 50 inches. In this case buying a 1080i/p set won't get you better resolution than a 50-inch 720p set (the 10-foot/50-inch point lies above the 1080i/p trace). You might be able to save some money by choosing a 720p model. Then again, all screen sizes seem to be switching over to 1080i/p pixel counts, and eventually 720p sets may be hard to find.

That last sentence represents the "just because" argument.

That same article also recommends being at least 6 feet away from a 50 inch 1080p screen. I think you could probably be a little closer, but not within inches as you seem to be proposing.
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post #377 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonypaul View Post

Are you being facetious, who watches a 50" - 720p plasma from less than 5 feet ? I generally watch the 1130 from 7', and I consider the PQ stunning.

PS. Just for reference, my vision is 20/20.

No, I'm not. I guess that is why I took the 500u over the Elite 1130HD.
I had noticed this myself on the 1130HD and was surprised.


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post #378 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harden View Post

Why is Pioneer elimnating the media box? To me - someone is considering either the new Pioneers or the "old" Pioneers - the media box is very attractive due to not having to fish new wire for future peripherials.

Is it just a matter of cost? Do current Pioneer owners not like the media box?

If I'm looking for a non-Elite 50" plasma, then the 5060HD is my best bet, right?

initially i was concerned about this also but no more

as a 5060 owner, i dont really see the big deal as you are already running a dvi and controller cable from media box to plasma.

if i upgrade to the 1080p model, i'll simply run 2hdmi cables (1 for the sake of it) which will take up less surface area than existing cables and control it all through a video switcher (ideal) or though existing avr.

im still hurting from the optional 10mt cable i had to buy to connect existing media box to plasma due to large distance apart - needed 5mts and std cable is 3mts

my biggest gripe with the new units is that they are thicker than the 5060. i would imagine that it's because it needs to house all the added circuitry (ie, built in media box) but disappointing nonetheless.

cheers,

julie
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post #379 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 08:15 AM
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Hopefully there won't be any new 'features' introduced like interference, heat...etc...etc from the new design.


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post #380 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harden View Post

Why is Pioneer elimnating the media box? To me - someone is considering either the new Pioneers or the "old" Pioneers - the media box is very attractive due to not having to fish new wire for future peripherials.

Is it just a matter of cost? Do current Pioneer owners not like the media box?

If I'm looking for a non-Elite 50" plasma, then the 5060HD is my best bet, right?

I originally liked the idea of a separate box too, but now I'm finding that I'm out of cabinet space for all my equipments. I either will have to place the media box + some other component vertically or place them outside the cabinet, next to the tv - very unattractive. I assume most people are in this, rather than the wall mount, situation. If you wall mount and can't hide your av components, you're better off having wires running up the display than having av component anywhere they fit.
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post #381 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

No, I'm not. I guess that is why I took the 500u over the Elite 1130HD.
I had noticed this myself on the 1130HD and was surprised.

You do not mention the size. 50" or 42"?

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post #382 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonypaul View Post

You do not mention the size. 50" or 42"?

50", what else?


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post #383 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 02:02 PM
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Whoops--disregard, please

A.B.
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post #384 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

I see much discussion on 1080P and the real difference versus a 768 display and for those that think that a native 1080P display makes no difference I would issue a challenge to see it real life in a very simple smack in front of your face viewing experience with an SXRD 60" displaying from a Sony HD Box "Hawaii". My point is not to sell anyone on SXRD or any better than scenario but to point out just how much better 1080P or i can be on a native display, even the version that doesn't take 1080P.

Simply go to a Circuit City anywhere in the country where they have this setup and cpcat may have mentioned 5'? That's a joke - you can put your eyeballs up to the panel and not see pixels on that feed yet your cannot say that for any other panels in the store except perhaps the new 1080P Samsungs being fed likewise.

My Sharp is a native 1080 display that doesn't take the progressive but hell at 1:1 pixels I can get within less than a foot before seeing any pixeling and that is not being fed via a 1080P Box - and viewing CSI Miami I cannot see any from within inches.

My point is not a better than scenario or tech but that the fill factor on a large panel is just amazing on 1080P Native Displays and when you folks see it on the new Panasonic 65" and the Pio 60" you'll be blown away comparatively just as a 60" SXRD or a 70" Q006 blows away a 3LCD panel and most other technology, add to that the HP, JVC Pro 1080P, the Brillian and now plasma will join. The BONUS is getting a larger panel for HT immersion with kick ass clarity and details a step above.

For those naysayers on 1080P and it's difference I'll be back after Rich Harkness has done his review of both the Pio/Panasonic after he has jaw surgery when he reports the blow you away fill factor with next to no visible pixels (you can bet they'll have a Blu-Ray feeding it). Go see the SXRD or half a dozen other native displays being fed HD and there is a difference and my point is not to be argumentative but rather despite PDP owners not having 1080P previous the fill factor will make a big difference just as it does with LCD and RPTV and FP. Eventually they'll all migrate to 1080P and a price premium is always there for early adopters. Enjoy!

Westa my man, you said it straight. This is exactly my view as well. 1080p has been in the works for a very long time, and when the mfg'ers finally were able to accomplish this feat I knew we were in for one heck of a ride on the PQ train. I've already got an HD-Lite TV, and for my next HT Upgrade I will not settle for anything less than a 1080p display w/can input AND output 1080p.

Concerning viewing distances...for those people that can't possibly move their sofa or chair a few feet forward, do you thing think you'll be watching your new display from the exact same spot and distance day in and day out for the entire life of the TV? What if you ever want to move it to the kitchen area or the bedroom, etc.? For myself, I want the very best PQ & resolution I can get regardless, but then that's JMHO.
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post #385 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 04:00 PM
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In other words, "just because".

No problem, your money.
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post #386 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 04:09 PM
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I'm waiting for 2160p - I heard you can mount a 65" to the front of your Barcalounger *without* a trace of SDE...



If you think this post was dumb, you really should read my blog=>
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post #387 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 04:16 PM
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post #388 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

No one said it doesn't make a difference. Whether you'll benefit from 1080p screen resolution is simply based on screen size/viewing distance. Many viewing situations will not allow a close enough viewing distance to justify the added cost. From the S&V article linked in your signature:

If your room layout restricts either your viewing distance or the screen size, you actually have more choices. Say you're limited to a seating distance of around 10 feet and a screen width of 50 inches. In this case buying a 1080i/p set won't get you better resolution than a 50-inch 720p set (the 10-foot/50-inch point lies above the 1080i/p trace). You might be able to save some money by choosing a 720p model. Then again, all screen sizes seem to be switching over to 1080i/p pixel counts, and eventually 720p sets may be hard to find.

That last sentence represents the "just because" argument.

That same article also recommends being at least 6 feet away from a 50 inch 1080p screen. I think you could probably be a little closer, but not within inches as you seem to be proposing.

Also, I'm not sure if anyone covered this, but I just hooked up my PC to my 50" Elite and split-screened it (TV/PC). My PC is at 1024x768. PC screen looks good, but it's still a little distorted and you'll get some blurry rows of text. It would be really nice to have the additional resolution. I bet gamers would also appreciate 1080p.

OT: What I really love about the setup I have is that it cleared up all the clutter of a separate PC and TV. My PC is hidden in my cabinet along with my AV components.
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post #389 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

My PC is at 1024x768. PC screen looks good, but it's still a little distorted and you'll get some blurry rows of text. It would be really nice to have the additional resolution.

That sounds more like an interpolation issue to me. Even if you had a higher resolution this would only slightly reduce this effect. Text can only be read well with an 1:1 mapping of the PC pixels to the screen pixels.

Unfortunately, most TV-Displays do currently only support this over the VGA Input and not on the DVI/HDMI inputs :-(
(and VGA offers inferior quality as well as sometimes signal syncronisation issues)

How did you connect your PC to the display? Did you set your PC to the native resolution of your plasma display?

Regarding the new 427/507 Plasma:
The specifications looks like it will have a HDMI v1.3 capable connector. I heard that 1.3 will improve compatibility with PCs. So it might finally offer a working digital connection to PCs without beeing plagued by overscan and interpolation.

Isn't that worth waiting for, isn't that worth dying for ?
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post #390 of 4252 Old 06-11-2006, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AnybodyM View Post

That sounds more like an interpolation issue to me. Even if you had a higher resolution this would only slightly reduce this effect. Text can only be read well with an 1:1 mapping of the PC pixels to the screen pixels.

Unfortunately, most TV-Displays do currently only support this over the VGA Input and not on the DVI/HDMI inputs :-(
(and VGA offers inferior quality as well as sometimes signal syncronisation issues)

How did you connect your PC to the display? Did you set your PC to the native resolution of your plasma display?

Regarding the new 427/507 Plasma:
The specifications looks like it will have a HDMI v1.3 capable connector. I heard that 1.3 will improve compatibility with PCs. So it might finally offer a working digital connection to PCs without beeing plagued by overscan and interpolation.

Isn't that worth waiting for, isn't that worth dying for ?

You think? It does however look perfect in full screen.

The media box has a VGA input just like a regular LCD computer monitor.

HDMI would be nice.
a_ok2me is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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