Pioneer's NEW 7th Generation Plasmas for 2006-2007 - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 4252 Old 07-03-2006, 02:02 PM
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Any ingenious types know of special menu options for the Pioneer PDP-5071? e.g. the number of hours the panel has been watched.

I've owned the 5071 for one week. All in all I'm very impressed. The best high def images are truely spectacular. However, the worst SD broadcasts are truely horrific. Having to zoom to eliminate burn in for 4:3 content makes the matter worse. Oh well...

After kicking the tires on a Toshiba DLP and Hitachi DILA two years ago, I am very happy with this set.
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post #722 of 4252 Old 07-03-2006, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lab1234 View Post

Any ingenious types know of special menu options for the Pioneer PDP-5071? e.g. the number of hours the panel has been watched.

I've owned the 5071 for one week. All in all I'm very impressed. The best high def images are truely spectacular. However, the worst SD broadcasts are truely horrific. Having to zoom to eliminate burn in for 4:3 content makes the matter worse. Oh well...

After kicking the tires on a Toshiba DLP and Hitachi DILA two years ago, I am very happy with this set.

It's the same as the the 6Gs. Look here on post #4320.
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post #723 of 4252 Old 07-03-2006, 02:29 PM
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What really is the difference between the "70" line and "60" line? All I've read is that they got rid of the media box to save costs, and supposedly they use NEC glass now, which explains going from 43" to 42".

Are those the only differences? Has the picture quality improved? Thanks.
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post #724 of 4252 Old 07-03-2006, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

This is a common misconception with 1080p. 1080p input support is really a separate issue from 1080p screen resolution. 1080p24 input support in this case allows input of the native 1080p24 signal from HD-DVD/BD. It is then a relatively simple conversion for the display to 1080p60 (or 1080p72) followed by scaling to 768p. This advantage is independent of screen resolution. For this display you'll have the option of displaying at 768p60 or 768p72 (should eliminate judder).

1080p screen resolution is advantageous in the context of screen size/viewing distance. If based on this consideration you are likely to benefit, you will still benefit regardless of input signal resolution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post

What really makes the difference here is what device has the better scaler: If your 720P Plasma with 1080P/24/30/60 input cabability has a better scaler (to downrez the incoming 1080P signal to it's native rez, and there will only be one "conversion" of the source signal), then it makes sense to look for 1080P input cabability. But if your HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player has better scaling abilities than your display, it might be better to just downscale (to 1080i or 720P) at your player, then pass that signal to your display (which will still need to do a little more scaling on it's own to match the native resolution of the panel, so there could be two sets of scaling going on - which may impact quality as well). Not really a clean cut answer there, you will need to test out your player/display combo to find the best settings. Also, it looks like the new HD-DVD players need to output a signal closest to their encoded format to look their best (example, encoded at 1080P, output at 1080i (or 1080P when it is available): encoded at 720P, output at 720P).


Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

I don't think it's that complicated. Scaling should not be given the relative importance you are giving it. Deinterlacing and telecine/inverse telecine will be typically where a display shows weakness if anywhere. If a progressive display can't do a good job of scaling a progressive signal to its native resolution, I'd say get a better display and that's independent of screen resolution.

Additionally, any small differences seen on a quality display due to scaling errors alone should be captured by the screen size/viewing distance consideration.


Gentlemen,

Thanks for the interesting dialog. I have frequently pondered these issues. While I'm certain I don't have any better answers, I thought I might share my thoughts anyway. I definitely side with Cpcat in the scaling versus deinterlacing debate; as far as I can tell, deinterlacing is by far the more complicated process and concomitantly, the source of far more visible errors. That's not to suggest that scaling is irrelevant; it definitely is but that function should be squarely within the core compentency of the panel manufacturer - after all, if they don't let us feed the beast NR, it's a sure thing the signal is gonna' have to get scaled!

If you agree, we're now left with a "my deinterlacer can beat up your deinterlacer" kind of debate. Leaving the use of a third party box out of the equation, the deinterlacing hardware/algorithms employed by the source or the display should be key differentiator. Or is it?

In my mind, another major factor (and maybe the only major factor) is the number of conversions/handshakes in the process. This is really the "holy grail" and the reason all the techies continually ask whether the panel can truly accept NR (i.e. without any internal processing). In this way, the panel only needs to spit out what it receives and we can employ an external box designed exclusively for and dedicated solely to the processing of source information. Of course, we need to feed those boxes with unprocessed signals (which is a whole separate issue).

So where does this leave me? I have concluded that I "need" a display that can either (i) accept NR digitally (preferably via HDMI given the enhanced bandwith/bit depth but realistically, DVI may be the only realistic choice) and a high quality nextgen processor using SO or HQV technology (for those who care, I'm currently leaning toward the new Crystalio II) or (ii) was optimized to process/scale 480i via HDMI. Given the good track record of Fujitsu's AVM II processing and confirmation that the new PIOs will also accept 480i via HDMI, the answer to my conundrum may be forth coming. Recently, however, I have seen reports that the AVM II doesn't like 480i via HDMI as well as analog component. If the new PIOs don't do digital 480i well, I'm probably going to have to buy the commerical Panny. I'm looking for a 60" + display and while I would definitely love 1080p performance, it seems to me that accepting NR or high powered processing of digital 480i is the real issue.

Your thoughts, comments and experiences would be more than welcome!

Rob
aka Technut
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post #725 of 4252 Old 07-03-2006, 08:04 PM
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Today I bought a 5071HD at Best Buy for my dad (he lives in South America). Anyway, I had the option of delivering it to the warehouse that will ship it to South America or have them deliver it to my house. I choose to ship it to the warehouse. Can I trust Best Buy in delivering the plasma (in tact)? Best Buy can also deliver the plasma to my house (so I can inspect it) and I could bring it to the warehouse myself. Should I choose this route instead?

Another question is, will the box of the 5071HD fit in a Lincoln Navigator or a Land Rover LR3 (with the seats folded of course)?

Thanks!

PS. how big is the difference between the 4361HD and the 4271HD? I'm asking since the price difference is very huge (the 4271HD being a lot more expensive).
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post #726 of 4252 Old 07-03-2006, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufusyte View Post

Can you conceive of the fact that the 50XR5A has a higher resolution that the 5060?

I knew you could

Yep, I knew that but it didn't make a bit of difference, IMO. And that's what matters, our own opinions.
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post #727 of 4252 Old 07-03-2006, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technut View Post

I'm looking for a 60" + display and while I would definitely love 1080p performance, it seems to me that accepting NR or high powered processing of digital 480i is the real issue.

NR support is definitely a plus. Don't even consider an external scaler without it.

The current NEC's support NR over HDMI. The Panny commercials do as well. It is likely these Pios will as they have NEC heritage.

SD processing is important now but hopefully will become less and less important with time. Don't forget the advent of HD DVD which will hopefully make 480 processing from a disc a thing of the past.

Approximate "watershed" screen size/ viewing distances for 720p/768p vs. 1080p screen resolution:

32 inches 6 feet
37 inches 7 feet
42 inches 8 feet
50 inches 9 feet
55 inches 10 feet
60 inches 11 feet
65 inches 12 feet
103 inches 18 feet

These are conservative estimates which are probably somewhat biased towards getting a 1080p screen. As long as you will sit further away or have a smaller screen at the size/distance specified, you are fine with 720p/768p. If you are on the watershed, consider a 1080p screen. If you are significantly larger/closer, you ideally need a 1080p screen
.
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post #728 of 4252 Old 07-04-2006, 12:21 AM
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For those that are interested, the BB Magnolias with a Pio rep should have info, specs, msrp, etc etc for the elites already. They are confirmed to be without the media receiver. I don't have them with me (forget to ask the Mag guys for a copy.)

Plasma/LCD economy: http://www.witsview.com/
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post #729 of 4252 Old 07-04-2006, 02:00 AM
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how did the hitachi look?
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post #730 of 4252 Old 07-04-2006, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Are the competing in the same market? Yes...the PDP market. Are they targeting the same consumers. No. If that were the case, Pioneer would have slashed their prices considerably this yes and put out an inferior (to last years models) product just to hit the same consumers that Panasonic has.

Products do not need to be identical in price or quality to "compete". Apple competes against Microsoft, Xbox competes against PS2. Pepsi doesn't taste like Coke, and Coke isn't sold at Taco Bell, KFC, or Pizza Hut, yet they're fierce competitors.

Pioneer (marketed as a quality-centric plasma brand) competes against Panasonic (marketed as a value-centric plasma brand). The 600U & 5070HD are similarly priced, and there are _dozens_ of threads dedicated to comparing the both brands because evaluating the trade-offs between the two is not an easy thing to do.

If those aren't competing products, I don't know what is (keeping in mind that "compete" is defined as "a state of rivalry").

MaliciousBraham and I have moved this discussion to PMs with the intention of keeping this thread on the tracks. If you'd like to be a part of that discussion, you're certainly welcome to join us. There have already been a couple messages about 6-7x the size of this one. (PM me if you're interested)
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post #731 of 4252 Old 07-04-2006, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepb View Post

MaliciousBraham and I have moved this discussion to PMs with the intention of keeping this thread on the tracks. If you'd like to be a part of that discussion, you're certainly welcome to join us. There have already been a couple messages about 6-7x the size of this one. (PM me if you're interested)

Not interested. MB is more than capable of handling the convo. Besides, I'm working on something more constructive with another forum member.
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post #732 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 07:11 AM
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Not really, but you can PM me for a more detailed response....
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post #733 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

It's the same as the the 6Gs. Look here on post #4320.


Do you have an idea of where in the 150 page thread are the instructions for accessing hidden menus? thanks.
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post #734 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

NR support is definitely a plus. Don't even consider an external scaler without it.

The current NEC's support NR over HDMI. The Panny commercials do as well. It is likely these Pios will as they have NEC heritage.

Can someone with a 5071 confirm that it takes native resolution over HDMI?

Christian Vye

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e-mail is forever
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post #735 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 08:55 AM
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Look at post #4320 in the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadCam View Post

Do you have an idea of where in the 150 page thread are the instructions for accessing hidden menus? thanks.

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post #736 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 09:47 AM
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Copied the post from page #144
Start with the plasma turned OFF.

Press DISPLAY on the remote
(just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).

If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is
displayed.

Press MUTE (3 times to go to PANEL FACTS) and press SELECT.

Press DOWN (1 time) to page through each menu (for instance, to see the multiple pages that make up the INFORMATION section).

HR-MTR = the panel time

CAUTION: do not change settings in the service menu if you don't know what you are doing. Everytime I see info about the service menu, there are big warnings that you can totally screw your panel if you change things.
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post #737 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 12:58 PM
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Direct link to post 4320.

because I can
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post #738 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 01:34 PM
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Maybe I missed something - but I take it nothing ever came to fruition from the Pio PowerBuy that Steph from TVA teased quite awhile back??

Too bad...would have liked to see how low that price may have gotten....
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post #739 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 01:49 PM
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it's on, call em they'll hook u up
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post #740 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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^^ what would one save on this "power buy"? 5-10%
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post #741 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 02:49 PM
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. . . and for how long?
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post #742 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 03:03 PM
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the price the quoted me was rather good, but I am leaning toward going with an Panny 8UK anyway so it doesn't do me much good.
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post #743 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 04:58 PM
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Hello all,

Just a quick question on the Pio 507X, does anyone know if you can set the name of the different inputs (Sat, DVD, etc.)?

Thanks
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post #744 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by In2Deep View Post

Hello all,

Just a quick question on the Pio 507X, does anyone know if you can set the name of the different inputs (Sat, DVD, etc.)?

Thanks

no you cannot
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post #745 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 06:09 PM
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My current DVD is a sony which I picked out of the trash.. literally. It works ok but Im nevertheless ready to get one which is better suited for the Pio 4270. Any suggestions as to make and model? Farouda chip or no?

a
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post #746 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 07:21 PM
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im looking to get a pioneer pdp-5070hd , or 71 and just wanted to make sure that they are the exact same. and does anyone know where i can get a full spec sheet on one. The pioneer site doesnt seeem to have them listed.
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post #747 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 07:39 PM
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Just search for 5071 in pioneer site. You do get a pdf operating instructions.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...structions.pdf
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post #748 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apru View Post

My current DVD is a sony which I picked out of the trash.. literally. It works ok but Im nevertheless ready to get one which is better suited for the Pio 4270. Any suggestions as to make and model? Farouda chip or no?

a

I would check in the DVD player forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...aysprune=&f=18

If you think this post was dumb, you really should read my blog=> http://bumpedhishead.blogspot.com/
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post #749 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 10:06 PM
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I just picked up an upconverting DVD player from Samsung for about a "Ben Franklin" at CC. Running it through an HDMI cable to my new 5071. I am extremely pleased!!!
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post #750 of 4252 Old 07-05-2006, 10:19 PM
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What method is used to exit the service menu
1. if you want to save your changes
2. if you don't want to save anything and leave it the way you started.
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