Pioneer's NEW 7th Generation Plasmas for 2006-2007 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 4252 Old 04-30-2006, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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For all intents and purposes there is enough eveidence to suggest the PDP-507HX and the PDP-427HX will be Pioneer's successors to their current 50" and 42 " plasma models. These units are due out in mid June and are slated for Japan but I think they will be the same ones coming here at the same time since retailers are expecting the new models around mid june as well. 5800.00 Canadian / 5300 US / 600, 000 YEN

Check out the gory details and full specifications here:

Source
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post #2 of 4252 Old 04-30-2006, 03:22 PM
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Dang, and I was all ready to go and buy a 4360 . Can anyone else confirm these sets are actually due in June?

I love HD...and I hated that Anti-Consumer format war.

Now that we can move on... Blu-ray > Digital Downloads!
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post #3 of 4252 Old 04-30-2006, 04:05 PM
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Yeah... me too. I'm ready to buy the 5060. I'm not sure if i should wait. Waiting is killing me...
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post #4 of 4252 Old 04-30-2006, 04:35 PM
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Oh, if they come out in June that's perfect timing for a college graduation present to myself. I really wonder if the black levels have been improved at all over the 5060. I watch my friend's 5060 on a regular basis and last night while watching serenity I found myself yearning for deeper blacks. But even if the blacks remain the same I suppose they are atleast liveable.

Another question. Can non-elite models be calibrated just as easily by an isf calibrater as the elite models minus the better processing? Or are there other trade-offs in calibration between the elite and non-elite sets?
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post #5 of 4252 Old 04-30-2006, 04:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essogas View Post


Source


Number of pixels: 1365 (H) x 768 (V)



"New P.U.R.E. Black Panel" offering vastly improved brightness and color reproducibility thanks to the use of new phosphors and a review of panel materials

The industry-leading level of luminance efficiency - an improvement of 20 % over that of previous models - allows brightness to increase especially in the mid range. Images can be reproduced naturally with greater contrast.
The industry-leading level of color reproducibility - a wider color range of 106 % compared with the NTSC standard on the 50-inch model - enables more vivid images to be reproduced with a sense of reality and depth, irrespectively of viewing angels.
Owing to the Crystal Emissive Layer which realizes high luminance efficiency and highly-stabilized discharge operation, "blacker blacks" and details of dark areas often found in movie scenes are well reproduced."



It has increased from 1280x768 to 1365x768 pixels!
I have a feeling that "P.U.R.E Black Panel" means something... probably improved blacks from the PDP5060! I wouldn't be surprised if they improved it.
Mid range brightness performance has improved.
and more!!....


That thing attached underneath the TV appears to be speakers. I hope that's removable??????
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post #6 of 4252 Old 04-30-2006, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I can confirm June because I was able to talk to a Pioneer staffer and he confirmed June, for sure. AS far as getting the 5060, I would if I could! There are no more available in my area anywhere. Best Buy aslo confirmed that they have zero in stock and zero on order because they are discontinued and are awaiting these new sets.
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post #7 of 4252 Old 04-30-2006, 10:16 PM
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Well, I was planning to buy at the end of May, so it would be pretty foolish not to wait until June, huh? I'm just afraid of whether Pioneer will cut back on quality to hit a price point a little bit...I bet they won't though. Worst case, maybe I can get a good deal on a 4360.

I love HD...and I hated that Anti-Consumer format war.

Now that we can move on... Blu-ray > Digital Downloads!
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post #8 of 4252 Old 04-30-2006, 11:43 PM
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Do the new units use media boxes, or is it all built in? The idea of having the media box was really what was making me lean towards these sets... I like the idea of plugging all of my junk into the box and then having just the one cord goto the TV.
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post #9 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 12:13 AM
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Looks like the only thing Pioneer didn't approve on is pricing, still way overpriced at over $5K for a non 1080p set.
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post #10 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 04:30 AM
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Pretty nice.

These panels are based on those in the current NEC 50XR5/42XR4 (with obvious improvements apparently).

I would assume there is no media box as there isn't on the current NEC's.

1080p24 input through HDMI. Looks like someone is listening.
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post #11 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 05:25 AM
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What's the point of accepting 108O P on a 720 set?
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post #12 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 05:52 AM
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IMHO, if the new panels had a media receiver, they would have shown it in the picture. They did show the remote, so I think they would have also shown the MR. Darn - I like the media receiver concept.

If you think this post was dumb, you really should read my blog=> http://bumpedhishead.blogspot.com/
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post #13 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

[size=1]That thing attached underneath the TV appears to be speakers. I hope that's removable?

The way the specs are written for the 50 incher, it looks like the "speaker unit" is removable on the 50 incher but maybe not on the 42 incher, which only says "Built-in".

"Total Weight: PDP-427HX: 29.0 kg

Built-in speakers: Bass-reflex 2-way speaker system

------------------------------

But for the 50"

PDP-507HX: 37.4 kg* (*Including those for the display unit, speaker unit, and mounting kit)"

PDP-507HX
Dimensions: 1224 mm (W) x 795 mm (H) x 115 mm (D) (with speakers mounted)


Weight: 37.4 kg/system (Including that for the display unit, speaker units & mounting kit)


Speakers System type: Bass-reflex 2-way speaker system
Impedance: 8 ohms
Maximum input: 13W
Dimension: 1224 mm (W) x 77 mm (H) x 115 mm (D)
Weight: 2.9 kg/unit
Accessories: Mounting kit, speaker cable, etc.

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post #14 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortfeasor View Post

Do the new units use media boxes, or is it all built in? The idea of having the media box was really what was making me lean towards these sets... I like the idea of plugging all of my junk into the box and then having just the one cord goto the TV.

I think there are actually two cables running to the display, not one.

The media box is one of the reasons i did not buy a Pioneer. I don't need any extra components and it wouldn't work well with my setup anyway. I need the inputs to be on the TV itself. To each his own though . . . .

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post #15 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post

What's the point of accepting 108O P on a 720 set?


This is a common misconception with 1080p. 1080p input support is really a separate issue from 1080p screen resolution. 1080p24 input support in this case allows input of the native 1080p24 signal from HD-DVD/BD. It is then a relatively simple conversion for the display to 1080p60 (or 1080p72) followed by scaling to 768p. This advantage is independent of screen resolution. For this display you'll have the option of displaying at 768p60 or 768p72 (should eliminate judder).

1080p screen resolution is advantageous in the context of screen size/viewing distance. If based on this consideration you are likely to benefit, you will still benefit regardless of input signal resolution.

Approximate "watershed" screen size/ viewing distances for 720p/768p vs. 1080p screen resolution:

32 inches 6 feet
37 inches 7 feet
42 inches 8 feet
50 inches 9 feet
55 inches 10 feet
60 inches 11 feet
65 inches 12 feet
103 inches 18 feet
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post #16 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post


Approximate "watershed" screen size/ viewing distances for 720p/768p vs. 1080p screen resolution:

32 inches 6 feet
37 inches 7 feet
42 inches 8 feet
50 inches 9 feet
55 inches 10 feet
60 inches 11 feet
65 inches 12 feet
103 inches 18 feet

Yo cpcat: That's a bit confusing as you mention two resolutions (720 vs 1080) but there's only one column of numbers. So are you saying those are appropriate viewing distances for 720p or 1080p?

I can only surmise they are not viewing distances for 1080p, given that most calculations put the viewer around 8.5 feet to see all the resolution on a 65" 1080p display - whereas the above list says 12 feet. So are those 720p numbers?

Cheers,
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post #17 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

This is a common misconception with 1080p. 1080p input support is really a separate issue from 1080p screen resolution. 1080p24 input support in this case allows input of the native 1080p24 signal from HD-DVD/BD. It is then a relatively simple conversion for the display to 1080p60 (or 1080p72) followed by scaling to 768p. This advantage is independent of screen resolution. For this display you'll have the option of displaying at 768p60 or 768p72 (should eliminate judder).

1080p screen resolution is advantageous in the context of screen size/viewing distance. If based on this consideration you are likely to benefit, you will still benefit regardless of input signal resolution.

Approximate "watershed" screen size/ viewing distances for 720p/768p vs. 1080p screen resolution:

32 inches 6 feet
37 inches 7 feet
42 inches 8 feet
50 inches 9 feet
55 inches 10 feet
60 inches 11 feet
65 inches 12 feet
103 inches 18 feet


What really makes the difference here is what device has the better scaler: If your 720P Plasma with 1080P/24/30/60 input cabability has a better scaler (to downrez the incoming 1080P signal to it's native rez, and there will only be one "conversion" of the source signal), then it makes sense to look for 1080P input cabability. But if your HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player has better scaling abilities than your display, it might be better to just downscale (to 1080i or 720P) at your player, then pass that signal to your display (which will still need to do a little more scaling on it's own to match the native resolution of the panel, so there could be two sets of scaling going on - which may impact quality as well). Not really a clean cut answer there, you will need to test out your player/display combo to find the best settings. Also, it looks like the new HD-DVD players need to output a signal closest to their encoded format to look their best (example, encoded at 1080P, output at 1080i (or 1080P when it is available): encoded at 720P, output at 720P).
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post #18 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Yo cpcat: That's a bit confusing as you mention two resolutions (720 vs 1080) but there's only one column of numbers. So are you saying those are appropriate viewing distances for 720p or 1080p?

I can only surmise they are not viewing distances for 1080p, given that most calculations put the viewer around 8.5 feet to see all the resolution on a 65" 1080p display - whereas the above list says 12 feet. So are those 720p numbers?

Cheers,

Sorry if its confusing. It's the best way I've found to get the info across. I consider 720/768p equivalent in the context of screen resolution. I use the term "watershed" to mean that at those relatively common screen sizes and at the distance specified, if you increase the size or decrease the distance you will benefit from 1080p screen resolution. In the converse, 720p/768p will be sufficient.

For example, say you are planning to sit at 10 feet and watch a 65 inch screen. Looking at the chart, it should be easy to see you would benefit from a 1080p screen.

Approximate "watershed" screen size/ viewing distances for 720p/768p vs. 1080p screen resolution:

32 inches 6 feet
37 inches 7 feet
42 inches 8 feet
50 inches 9 feet
55 inches 10 feet
60 inches 11 feet
65 inches 12 feet
103 inches 18 feet
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post #19 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortfeasor View Post

Do the new units use media boxes, or is it all built in? The idea of having the media box was really what was making me lean towards these sets... I like the idea of plugging all of my junk into the box and then having just the one cord goto the TV.

I think it's safe to say that the Media Receiver has been eliminated. I won't mind if it is a way to cut costs. It would also be awesome if they had the option to buy it separately for applications that need the MR's flexibility. It may be that the standard Pioneers will not have it, but the Elites do...i'm sure Pioneer would like to put a little more distance between those two models to justify more premium pricing on the Elites.

I love HD...and I hated that Anti-Consumer format war.

Now that we can move on... Blu-ray > Digital Downloads!
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post #20 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post

What really makes the difference here is what device has the better scaler: If your 720P Plasma with 1080P/24/30/60 input cabability has a better scaler (to downrez the incoming 1080P signal to it's native rez, and there will only be one "conversion" of the source signal), then it makes sense to look for 1080P input cabability. But if your HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player has better scaling abilities than your display, it might be better to just downscale (to 1080i or 720P) at your player, then pass that signal to your display (which will still need to do a little more scaling on it's own to match the native resolution of the panel, so there could be two sets of scaling going on - which may impact quality as well). Not really a clean cut answer there, you will need to test out your player/display combo to find the best settings. Also, it looks like the new HD-DVD players need to output a signal closest to their encoded format to look their best (example, encoded at 1080P, output at 1080i (or 1080P when it is available): encoded at 720P, output at 720P).

I don't think it's that complicated. Scaling should not be given the relative importance you are giving it. Deinterlacing and telecine/inverse telecine will be typically where a display shows weakness if anywhere. If a progressive display can't do a good job of scaling a progressive signal to its native resolution, I'd say get a better display and that's independent of screen resolution.

Additionally, any small differences seen on a quality display due to scaling errors alone should be captured by the screen size/viewing distance consideration.
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post #21 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 09:08 AM
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Dual Digital tuners! That would certainly be nice for the US market...
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post #22 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MaliciousBraham View Post

Dual Digital tuners! That would certainly be nice for the US market...

Definitely!

I love HD...and I hated that Anti-Consumer format war.

Now that we can move on... Blu-ray > Digital Downloads!
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post #23 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 11:08 AM
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BTW, I have an email in to Pioneer asking about the new models for the US market. Called TVAuthority today and they don't have any information on the new models yet.

I love HD...and I hated that Anti-Consumer format war.

Now that we can move on... Blu-ray > Digital Downloads!
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post #24 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdavis21484 View Post

BTW, I have an email in to Pioneer asking about the new models for the US market. Called TVAuthority today and they don't have any information on the new models yet.

I think these are them. If there are any changes it will be in model # only. I sure hope the media box is still part of this package with the removable speaker. And yes, 1080 24P over HDMI is a BIG plus. Think Bluray and HDDVD
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post #25 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

Number of pixels: 1365 (H) x 768 (V)


It has increased from 1280x768 to 1365x768 pixels!

Seems like we will finally have square pixels.
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post #26 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 12:04 PM
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Seeing some of the features listed, the new models seem great. Even assuming they're using NEC production lines now, PQ should be better because it's Pioneer's technology. I really do hope that bottom speaker is removable. I was also excited about the 1080p input acceptance. I wonder if the HDMI and Component inputs share inputs again this year...surely they've fixed that oversight. And I'm hoping for a black swivel, not silver.

I love HD...and I hated that Anti-Consumer format war.

Now that we can move on... Blu-ray > Digital Downloads!
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post #27 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essogas View Post

I think these are them. If there are any changes it will be in model # only. I sure hope the media box is still part of this package with the removable speaker. And yes, 1080 24P over HDMI is a BIG plus. Think Bluray and HDDVD

Sorry essogas, but the separate media box appears to be a goner...at least in the non-Elite line...
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post #28 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 03:33 PM
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These updated Pioneer models are significant because the new Panny PX60/600 series IMHO have gone backwards in PQ. The image is not as smooth as the 50/500 series, there is noise and skintones are just not as strong. Brightness and whites have improved but that's it, overall too many negatives. I am hoping the Pioneers dont head in the same direction, and I am really hoping the Panny 65" 1080p has the old 50/500 series processing. Cant wait to see the new Pioneers - looking for better blacks and no judder. And really interested in seeing the 50" in 1080p. The Pio vs Panny battle may move in favor of the Pio, summer will tell the tale.
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post #29 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ Wow, the Panasonics are getting worse. Another sales person said the same thing at a 2001 audio/video. I guess I'm sticking with Pioneer. can't decide between this new one or the commercial 505CMX with video card upgrade. Pe
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post #30 of 4252 Old 05-01-2006, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunorth View Post

I am hoping the Pioneers dont head in the same direction, and I am really hoping the Panny 65" 1080p has the old 50/500 series processing. Cant wait to see the new Pioneers - looking for better blacks and no judder. And really interested in seeing the 50" in 1080p. The Pio vs Panny battle may move in favor of the Pio, summer will tell the tale.

The scuttlebut I've heard is that the 65 inch 1080p Panny does use the older processing. The disadvantage is it may not accept 1080p for this reason.

I've said this before about the new 60/600U Panny: I think they are catering to the masses and going the way of RCA/Phillips CRT's with cheap build and internals. I saw the 50 inch 60U in BB the other day and was not impressed at all.

The Pio buyout of the NEC pdp division will produce the best pdp for the near future as far as consumer models go IMO. Hopefully, Panny will keep up their commercial panel tradition and we'll still have that option for a high quality display as well.

Fuji is a mystery at this point as to what they'll do after being acquired by Hitachi. I don't have the confidence in Hitachi like I do Pio.
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