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Runco verus Panasonic

3K views 27 replies 15 participants last post by  Halfpipetrick 
#1 ·
We are in the process of buying a new plasma. Is Runco worth the money or am I just better off going with the tried and true Panasonic Plasma?
 
#2 ·
Runco, Fujitsu, etc. are "better than" Panasonic.


But it's a question of finances. Some people find it outrageous to spend such a high premium over "perfectly fine for the money" Panasonic.


To others, Runco, Fujitsu, etc. are "better than" Panasonic, period.
 
#3 ·
This is my opinion, but I think you can do every bit as good (or better) than Runco & Fujitsu by using a quality commercial panel (Panny, Pioneer, NEC) and an external video scaler. I also suspect the vast majority of Runco & Fujitsu displays are sold by specialty shops & AV consultants, who also probably professionally install & calibrate the systems. That can make a HUGE difference on the final result. If you are willing to do the work yourself (both assembling components and calibration), you can save a considerable amount of money - but if you haven't got the time or patience to learn how to do it, you probably *will* get a better result from the higher-end units.
 
#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by c627627
Runco, Fujitsu, etc. are "better than" Panasonic.


But it's a question of finances. Some people find it outrageous to spend such a high premium over "perfectly fine for the money" Panasonic.


To others, Runco, Fujitsu, etc. are "better than" Panasonic, period.
I believe neither Runco now Fujitsu make their own glass. In the case of Fujitsu they make their own video processor that they put on glass sourced from Hitachi and Panasonic. In the case of Runco I would assume they OEM both the glass and the processor. My bet would be that a top-tier VP + Panny commercial plasma will probably get you better PQ can either Runco or Fujitsu (JMHO). Best glass + best VP = best plasma. If you want the best, go with best-of-breed. Think of the external VP as a media receiver box. This combo will probably still cost you less...more for less is always better :)
 
#5 ·
I have seen the Fujitsu and the Runco side by side, and was blown away by the Runco. Runco I think uses the Pioneer glass. If you buy an Pion Elite you will save about 2K over the Runco and PQ will be very close.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangedup
I have seen the Fujitsu and the Runco side by side, and was blown away by the Runco. Runco I think uses the Pioneer glass. If you buy an Pion Elite you will save about 2K over the Runco and PQ will be very close.
I won't be surprised if it a rebadged Pio Elite!
 
#7 ·
Internal components and not just the glass make up picture quality.


Runco and Fujitsu are unique, superior sets. They're not rebadged sets that can be bought cheaper under another name.



It's a question of whether the premium paid for them is worth it, not whether they are some of the best sets $ can buy because they are.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by c627627
Internal components and not just the glass make up picture quality.


Runco and Fujitsu are unique, superior sets. They're not rebadged sets that can be bought cheaper under another name.



It's a question of whether the premium paid for them is worth it, not whether they are some of the best sets $ can buy because they are.
I am not sure Runco even has a plasma manufacturing plant.


Fujitsu makes their own plasma they buy the glass and put in their electronics. So Fujitsu is a real manufacturer. I am not sure Runco, Marantz etc. are in the same boat....they are essentially re-badgers AFAIK.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman
I won't be surprised if it a rebadged Pio Elite!
I saw a side by side comparison of an "entry level" Runco and a Pioneer (non-Elite) yesterday. The Runco was clearly superior, and this was not the model with the fancy processor. I highly doubt that they are re-badged Elites, which have the same panels as their little brothers.
 
#12 ·
Just mty 2 cents...


The vendor i purchased my screen from posts the following text regarding Plasma Screen Builders.

Plasma TV Manufacturer's

Who really makes your Plasma TV?


Very few Plasma tv manufacturers actually make their own plasma tv. Most use a system called rebadging. Basically they buy from a Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), claim to have a secret extra special feature then stick a new sticker on it and bill you thousands extra for the sticker. If you really want to pay thousands for a sticker please call our sales dept and we will sell you a sticker with our website logo for much less then the couple thousand you will pay Fujitsu or Viewsonic.


THE MAJOR MANUFACTURERS

NEC - Nec is a OEM manufacturer, The company's plan is to supply industrial unit under the NEC name and supply home units thru rebadges such as Marantz and RCA, Sony and Runco.


Panasonic - Makes the complete units, Supplies Toshiba, JVC, Fujitsu and more


Pioneer Plasma - Makes all of there own equipment and sells OEM to Sharp and Sony Note: The 5040 and 4340 HD multimedia box is made by Sharp Note : Pioneer Electronics now owns NEC and the Pioneer 424 EDTV unit is basically a NEC 42 rebadged


Fujitsu Plasma - Only makes their own 42 inch in partnership with Hitachi . 50 and 61 inch Fujitsu Plasmas are Panasonic and NEC but the 42 inch are their own. Note Hitachi plasma screens are identical to Fujitsu and cost thousands less, 55 Inch Fujitsu is same as Hitachi,


Sony Plasma tv - Makes their own boards and chips but uses Fujitsu/ Hitachi plasma screen glass for 42 inch, 42inch EDTV is NEC. 50 inch is a Pioneer 504 based unit


Hitachi - Owns 50% of plasma screen factory with Fujitsu. Makes own internal components. 42 Alis screens are Hitachi as is the New 55, 50 inch are Pioneer and 42 EDTV appears to be their own


Philips - Uses Fujitsu/ Hitachi glass screen and most internal components as well. However, Philips makes its own bezel with built in speakers.


LG / Zenith - Make their own glass in Korea


Samsung - Makes its own components in Korea


THE SECONDARY MANUFACTURERS

RCA/ Thompson - Partners with NEC to OEM its product. Just a NEC with a new bezel.


JVC - 50 inch is Panasonic, 42 is NEC


Toshiba - OEM from Panasonic.


Sharp - OEM product through Pioneer for 50" and 42 though they may make some internal component changes .


Runco - OEM 50" from Pioneer and 42" from NEC,


Marantz - OEM 42" plasma monitor from NEC.


Studio Experience use a Samsung panel but custom electronics


Viewsonic - OEM 50" plasma screen from Pioneer ( old 502 ). 55 is Hitachi


Sampo - 42v3 is old Fujitsu, 42v6 is Samsung Plasma,


Gateway: Units are rebranded Sampo


Norcent Units may be rebranded Sampo


Maxcent is a rebranded Sampo


Prima, SVA, Akai, and the hundreds of other no name plasma screens are all chinese made.
 
#13 ·
Pioneer owns NEC.


Pioneer uses the NEC panel in their 60in.


Mitsubishi uses the NEC panels.
 
#16 ·
Thanks Mike! A real good read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hunt
Just mty 2 cents...


The vendor i purchased my screen from posts the following text regarding Plasma Screen Builders.

Plasma TV Manufacturer's

Who really makes your Plasma TV?


Very few Plasma tv manufacturers actually make their own plasma tv. Most use a system called rebadging. Basically they buy from a Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), claim to have a secret extra special feature then stick a new sticker on it and bill you thousands extra for the sticker. If you really want to pay thousands for a sticker please call our sales dept and we will sell you a sticker with our website logo for much less then the couple thousand you will pay Fujitsu or Viewsonic.


THE MAJOR MANUFACTURERS

NEC - Nec is a OEM manufacturer, The company's plan is to supply industrial unit under the NEC name and supply home units thru rebadges such as Marantz and RCA, Sony and Runco.


Panasonic - Makes the complete units, Supplies Toshiba, JVC, Fujitsu and more


Pioneer Plasma - Makes all of there own equipment and sells OEM to Sharp and Sony Note: The 5040 and 4340 HD multimedia box is made by Sharp Note : Pioneer Electronics now owns NEC and the Pioneer 424 EDTV unit is basically a NEC 42 rebadged


Fujitsu Plasma - Only makes their own 42 inch in partnership with Hitachi . 50 and 61 inch Fujitsu Plasmas are Panasonic and NEC but the 42 inch are their own. Note Hitachi plasma screens are identical to Fujitsu and cost thousands less, 55 Inch Fujitsu is same as Hitachi,


Sony Plasma tv - Makes their own boards and chips but uses Fujitsu/ Hitachi plasma screen glass for 42 inch, 42inch EDTV is NEC. 50 inch is a Pioneer 504 based unit


Hitachi - Owns 50% of plasma screen factory with Fujitsu. Makes own internal components. 42 Alis screens are Hitachi as is the New 55, 50 inch are Pioneer and 42 EDTV appears to be their own


Philips - Uses Fujitsu/ Hitachi glass screen and most internal components as well. However, Philips makes its own bezel with built in speakers.


LG / Zenith - Make their own glass in Korea


Samsung - Makes its own components in Korea


THE SECONDARY MANUFACTURERS

RCA/ Thompson - Partners with NEC to OEM its product. Just a NEC with a new bezel.


JVC - 50 inch is Panasonic, 42 is NEC


Toshiba - OEM from Panasonic.


Sharp - OEM product through Pioneer for 50" and 42 though they may make some internal component changes .


Runco - OEM 50" from Pioneer and 42" from NEC,


Marantz - OEM 42" plasma monitor from NEC.


Studio Experience use a Samsung panel but custom electronics


Viewsonic - OEM 50" plasma screen from Pioneer ( old 502 ). 55 is Hitachi


Sampo - 42v3 is old Fujitsu, 42v6 is Samsung Plasma,


Gateway: Units are rebranded Sampo


Norcent Units may be rebranded Sampo


Maxcent is a rebranded Sampo


Prima, SVA, Akai, and the hundreds of other no name plasma screens are all chinese made.
 
#17 ·
Robgo2, the Runco is probably ISF calibrated, the Pio is not. If want to pay more for a rebadge go ahead. It's your money. Runco does not make plasmas AFAIK. Unless they made a factory in the last 3 months or so.....


The store is playing the oldest trick in the book - make the most expensive set look the best! I went to Bang & Olufsen the other day - their Biovision plasmas are panny 8UK rebadges that are pre ISF calibrated in their stores....they cost 2.5 times as much :) I bet Runco does the same for their plasma......same for Marantz.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hunt
Just mty 2 cents...


The vendor i purchased my screen from posts the following text regarding Plasma Screen Builders.

Plasma TV Manufacturer's

Who really makes your Plasma TV?


Very few Plasma tv manufacturers actually make their own plasma tv. Most use a system called rebadging. Basically they buy from a Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), claim to have a secret extra special feature then stick a new sticker on it and bill you thousands extra for the sticker. If you really want to pay thousands for a sticker please call our sales dept and we will sell you a sticker with our website logo for much less then the couple thousand you will pay Fujitsu or Viewsonic.


THE MAJOR MANUFACTURERS

NEC - Nec is a OEM manufacturer, The company's plan is to supply industrial unit under the NEC name and supply home units thru rebadges such as Marantz and RCA, Sony and Runco.


Panasonic - Makes the complete units, Supplies Toshiba, JVC, Fujitsu and more


Pioneer Plasma - Makes all of there own equipment and sells OEM to Sharp and Sony Note: The 5040 and 4340 HD multimedia box is made by Sharp Note : Pioneer Electronics now owns NEC and the Pioneer 424 EDTV unit is basically a NEC 42 rebadged


Fujitsu Plasma - Only makes their own 42 inch in partnership with Hitachi . 50 and 61 inch Fujitsu Plasmas are Panasonic and NEC but the 42 inch are their own. Note Hitachi plasma screens are identical to Fujitsu and cost thousands less, 55 Inch Fujitsu is same as Hitachi,


Sony Plasma tv - Makes their own boards and chips but uses Fujitsu/ Hitachi plasma screen glass for 42 inch, 42inch EDTV is NEC. 50 inch is a Pioneer 504 based unit


Hitachi - Owns 50% of plasma screen factory with Fujitsu. Makes own internal components. 42 Alis screens are Hitachi as is the New 55, 50 inch are Pioneer and 42 EDTV appears to be their own


Philips - Uses Fujitsu/ Hitachi glass screen and most internal components as well. However, Philips makes its own bezel with built in speakers.


LG / Zenith - Make their own glass in Korea


Samsung - Makes its own components in Korea


THE SECONDARY MANUFACTURERS

RCA/ Thompson - Partners with NEC to OEM its product. Just a NEC with a new bezel.


JVC - 50 inch is Panasonic, 42 is NEC


Toshiba - OEM from Panasonic.


Sharp - OEM product through Pioneer for 50" and 42 though they may make some internal component changes .


Runco - OEM 50" from Pioneer and 42" from NEC,


Marantz - OEM 42" plasma monitor from NEC.


Studio Experience use a Samsung panel but custom electronics


Viewsonic - OEM 50" plasma screen from Pioneer ( old 502 ). 55 is Hitachi


Sampo - 42v3 is old Fujitsu, 42v6 is Samsung Plasma,


Gateway: Units are rebranded Sampo


Norcent Units may be rebranded Sampo


Maxcent is a rebranded Sampo


Prima, SVA, Akai, and the hundreds of other no name plasma screens are all chinese made.


I am curious how you got all this information, it's alot of good info. However, in my experience i have found that this info is not easily obtained.
 
#19 ·
Could someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the term REBADGED means identical piece of equipment with different labeling and things like paint color.


It does not mean "some parts are the same" therefore which of these units are rebadged by that definition?


Not many and some have crucial parts that are different even if others are the same.



In the computer world, a good example of "rebadged" is CD burners. Same CD burner, compatible firmware and all their parts are the same but they may have different color/label. That's what "rebadged" means.


So even if they have the same factory making the glass, that does not mean they are two identical Plasmas sporting different labeling, in other words, that does not mean one of them is "rebadged."
 
#20 ·
I work with Plasmas at an independent A/V store. In my experience, i have found several things to be usually true. First off...Everyones eyes are different. There is absolutely no way that i could say what the best plasma out there is...it is merely an opinion. second of all, it has been my experience that in the video industry, you definitely get what you pay for. I do feel that Fujitsu and Runco are far superior than alot of other makers. However, it's up to you if you want to spend the extra money. Just about all reputable plasma makers will have a good HD picture. It's a choice of if you want to go the extra mile to get a superb picture. Fujitsu is my personal favorite. They were the first to release a color plasma screen back in 1993. They were also the first ones to really make a plasma screen. They made them for tanks many years back because the crt tubes took up too much space....they were small black and white screens but they were still plasmas. They at one point in time had over 800 patents on the technology. They currently have about 500 or so.
 
#21 ·
Being rebaged is not a bad thing, Runco does have a better video scaler and you can make any TV look better with a video scaler.


Now IMO Pioneer makes the best plasma panel, b/c their panels have the deepest cell structure (makes each cell deeper to increase the phosphor area), most energy efficient, they run the coolest, allowing the Crystal Emissive Layer to lay on top the out side glass, thus when the light leaves the panel you get no double imaging.


Walk up to any plasma (thats not a Pioneer panel) and look down and you will see a space between the glass and the Crystal Emissive Layer. Then you will see the image reflecting off off it. If you see this on a Pioneer it is the NEC panel example Elite PDP-6100HD.
 
#22 ·
Well I read through this thread. Thank goodness one person came through with the goods on clarifying the glass sources.


heres the deal;


1. Runco plasmas are one area of video displays a very profitable custom installer uses. They source from NEC and Pioneer and maybe another manufacturer as well. Their plasmas are not better than their sources at any level and the premium price you pay is not justfied as far as the plasma itself. It is part of a profit margin in the overall custom install. Also, not all ISF calibrators or the equipment are creasted equal. NOT EVEN CLOSE. If you dont know the rep of the actual person doing the calibration-- you are playing roulette. I always chuckle at the posters who think Runco is some sort of special plasma Holy Grail There is a sucker born every minute. If someone values the custom install services, thats another story entirely. Thats what you are paying for. That NEC is still an NEC.


2. A long time ago ( 2003 and prior) in a land far far away ( Japan); Fujitsu made the AVM2 processor and had BY FAR the best plasma PQ around. Flash forward to 2006, and...the company still uses the AVM2 but no longer makes their own glass. Research and development is very slow, though not a complete standstill Feature wise- all other plasmas from the majors bypassed Fujitsu long ago. The true PQ differences are narrowed to non-existent. Why? Some prodcution cost issues but also the tight control of resellers and no internet purchasing meant a smidgeon of dollars compared to the dollars " the other guys" rake in. More dollars means more research and development as well as more sets--and so it goes.


3. External Scalers-- the favorite purported holy grail by software IT types who know every little about film and video. External scalers are not needed when using a decent plasma and DVD player and at its base level non-sensical. Although a lot of folks will "disagree strongly"---ie flame-- for any newbies out there. Dont waste your money on this "emperor has no clothes" ppipe dream of non essential expense. Just get your plasma calibrated and tweak slightly to your liking. Lighting conditions/calibration and plasma selection will determine overall PQ much more than an extra box and connections and data conversions.



Word
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangedup
Being rebaged is not a bad thing, Runco does have a better video scaler and you can make any TV look better with a video scaler.


Now IMO Pioneer makes the best plasma panel, b/c their panels have the deepest cell structure (makes each cell deeper to increase the phosphor area), most energy efficient, they run the coolest, allowing the Crystal Emissive Layer to lay on top the out side glass, thus when the light leaves the panel you get no double imaging.


Walk up to any plasma (thats not a Pioneer panel) and look down and you will see a space between the glass and the Crystal Emissive Layer. Then you will see the image reflecting off off it. If you see this on a Pioneer it is the NEC panel example Elite PDP-6100HD.


Oi. There isnt a special " Runco Scaler" any more than there is a "Runco Research division" that makes original products. They are a big company that sells a lot of things that other companys make. Each scaler works differently with each glass. They have SO MANY different panels. You think that one special Runco scaler makes every Runco plasma special and better than everything? Does this make sense? Bueller? Bueller? hehe.


AS far as the Pioneer and emissive layers-- that technical information is correct. Lower heat levels at that layer site does allow the one layer to be eliminated. But this doesnt translate into to true greater energy efficiency-- thats becuase the power supply consumption and electronics ( besides the glass) have power use characteristsics not related to the glass. The actual energy used by plasma depends on the degree of video signal brightness and has been measured--it is not glass specific. The actual numbers for all plasmas are way below their rated maximum use during most viewing times except for very bright scenes. Overall? 40 watt lightbulb use. Thats it. Now- as far as double layering-- I have never seen anyone watch a movie standing 3 inches from a plasma from above.


When watching movies in a normal seated position-- no one sees doubles layers no matter what plasma is viewed. END RESULT-- NO PQ EFFECT.
 
#25 ·
"Pioneer's exclusive Crystal Emissive Layer is sandwiched between the plasma glass and the individual light cells. This advanced layer helps conduct energy more efficiently so that each cell can be charged and discharged three times faster than before.


This ground-breaking technology enables Pioneer displays to emit more light and it also increases contrast. Finally, the Crystal Emissive layer improves luminance efficiency 22 percent from previous models, lowering power consumption.


Pause to Reflect: First-Surface Pure Color Filter

Try putting your fingertip on the surface of a mirror. You see two fingers, plus an extra “ghost†finger. This ghost image is the result of light reflecting and refracting off the two pieces of glass. This effect can also happen on a conventional plasma television, resulting in an image that is unfocused and imprecise.


Traditional plasma color filters attach to a separate glass layer mounted several millimeters in front of the plasma glass. This technique creates multiple reflections between the two pieces of glass.


Pioneer's innovative First-Surface Pure Color Filter is optically bonded directly to the plasma glass, eliminating the glass plate from the front filter altogether. Removing this extra layer of glass reduces the ambient light reflection and heightens color reproduction, creating images that are sharper, crisper and more vivid, even when watched in a bright environment."


From Pioneerelectronics.com



This said, it works no matter if you are three inches or 10 feet away. Just look at any plasma next to a Pioneer and the glass speaks for it self.


As for the Runco plasma I have seen, it was using their outboard scaler.


If you have the funds why not use a outboard scaler? The right scaler does improve PQ better than most manufactures onboard scalers. Examples: LG, Samsung, Toshiba, Akai, Dell......
 
#26 ·
Try 80%.....


TOKYO - March 25, 2005 - Hitachi, Ltd. today reached an official agreement with Fujitsu Limited concerning Fujitsu Hitachi Plasma Display Limited (FHP), a joint venture of the two companies, in accordance with a basic agreement signed on February 2, 2005. Under the agreement, both companies will provide financial assistance to FHP and Hitachi will acquire some of Fujitsu's shareholding in FHP and Fujitsu patents relating to plasma display panel (PDP) technology.


The main details of the agreement signed today are as follows:

Hitachi and Fujitsu will provide financial assistance to FHP through an injection of additional equity.

Hitachi will acquire 30.1% of FHP's issued shares from Fujitsu, giving Hitachi an 80.1% stake in FHP.

Hitachi will acquire PDP module patents owned by Fujitsu.

FHP will become a subsidiary of Hitachi after the share transaction. Furthermore, Mr. Yoshiyuki Imoto, currently COO of Hitachi's Ubiquitous Platform Systems, is to become FHP's president. There will be no change to FHP's name following the purchase of these shares.


By more tightly integrating their strategies, Hitachi and FHP will focus on developing business and expanding markets for products that make for a rich ubiquitous information society such as through the provision of the world's most advanced PDPs and plasma TVs.
 
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