PANASONIC 65" 1080p PLASMA (TH-65PX600U) Owners Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by peterhodes View Post

Is there any visible difference between these 2 inputs with this set?

I'll have to change receivers to get HDMI, and (of course), would rather not.

Thanks for any help!

As I mentioned here, not in my testing.
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post #272 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Hutchinson View Post

As I mentioned here, not in my testing.

Thanks!
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post #273 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 09:32 AM
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post #274 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Hutchinson View Post

The very first thing I did when I got my set was to confirm that 1:1 pixel mapping at 1920x1080P60 works. See post 26.

However, I also found that although overscan can be defeated using HDMI 1080P60 or when using the internal tuner, it can not be turned off using 1080i via either component or HDMI. I consider this to a completely brain-dead miss-feature and frankly, makes no sense. Perhaps it is an error rather than being intentional.

As for adjustability, it all depends on what is available in the service menu. I have not clue here. Anybody?

Larry,

Thanks for the clarification. I forgot that you tried it with 1080p60 as well. I agree it's a "brain-dead miss-feature" if you can't get 1:1 via 1080i but I think the answer must have something to do with the need to deinterlace the in-bound signal. As such, the internal processor is doing the work and the engineers either don't think the processor is up to the task or they figure we are all too stupid to want this important feature. If they blew the implementation of 1080i via HDMI, I wonder if they blew the implementation for component video too (not that I'm interested in feeding the display an analog signal but that is the only way it will accept 1080p24 - which I've previously noted is probably not a huge issue on this panel because it can't do 72Hz refresh rates anyway).

Rob
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post #275 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason30 View Post

So how many owners in total are on here now?

Well I have had mine for about a week and a half. Finally got it out of the box and mounted on the wall. So far I have not posted any thoughts on this set, as I wanted to try and live with it a for while. I was trying to get past the GUI and the idiot that programmed the date and time set up, that requires continually pushing a button that moves one day at a time starting from Jan 1st 2006. I actually had to read the manual to figure out how to access the HDMI imputs. Turns out it is the TV/video button. The last set I had like that was a 1985 Sony Trintron.

That being said, I am sad to report, that I for one, am somewhat dissappointed in the overall performance. I have a Pio 1130 mounted on the wall directly oposite the 65PX600U. I have a Gefen 4x1 switcher connected to a Gefen 4x1 splitter to both Plasmas. at 20' apart I can stand in the middle and look back and forth at each display. And for the most part I prefer the picture on the Pio, even though I can sit 7' from the Panny an have a more immersive experience. that I can not have with the Pio at 5' (because I see the pixel structure.) In comparing the two displays, the Pio seems to exihibt a slight push to yellow, where the Panny has a distinct red push, that so far I have not been able to get rid of. I was watching the Dallas/Giants game on ESPN HD last night, and on the Panny the turf looked like split-pea soup, grey- green, whereas on the Pio it looked a lot more green and colorful. I played with the picture settings on the 65", and yet there was no way that I could get the playing surface to look green. I have a mpeg2 HD TiVo and 2 of the new Mpeg 4 HR-20 DVRs, along with a Tosh HD-AX1 hooked up to the 4x1 switcher. I noticed how much better SD material from the Mpeg4 looks on the Panny compared to the mpeg2 SD. Some material looks very good on the Panny, but when I turn and compare it to the pic on the 1130, it also looks very good, and there are those times when the pic on the Panny is mediocre, and I turn it looks better to me on the Pio.

I am going to see if I can get a look at the 1540, I want the Panny size, but Pio look is beckoning to me.

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post #276 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonypaul View Post

I played with the picture settings on the 65", and yet there was no way that I could get the playing surface to look green.

First I do not yet have a HDTV but am interested in this set. Aren't the colors adjusted via a calibration menu in order to get the correct intensity and color definition for R,G,B? Having not done this, I only supposed that was what was needed if the colors were off.

Bob
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post #277 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bwclark View Post

Aren't the colors adjusted via a calibration menu in order to get the correct intensity and color definition for R,G,B? Having not done this, I only supposed that was what was needed if the colors were off.

Bob

Calibration Menu? There is the Picture portion of the menu, which yields:

Pic Mode; Vivid, Standard and Cinema.
Picture: +30 to -30
Brightness: " "
Color: " "
Tint: " "
Sharpness: " "
Color Temp: Cool/Standard/Warm
Color Mngt: on/off
C.A.T.S. on/off
Zoom Adjust: (greyed out on HDMI)
PC Adjust: " " " "
Other Adjust:
Video NR: on/off
3d Y/c Filter (greyed out on HDMI)
Color Matrix: " " ' "
block NR: on/off
Mosquito NR: onn/off
Black Level: Light/dark
3:2 Pulldown on/off

HD Size: Size 1/Size 2

Is this what you are referring to?

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post #278 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 04:42 PM
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I was referring to the Service Menu that allows advanced calibration....supposedly by a professional but one that has a calibration DVD may be able to perform some useful calibrations. Not having done this, I would hope one of the users will chime in on this issue of color correction.
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post #279 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 05:46 PM
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Wow TonyPaul, first negative review of the Panasonic. That's too bad. I hope you can get it working better for you.

When I watched the King Kong DVD on the Panasonic it was among the best presentations of that DVD I've ever seen (including having seen it on the Pioneer FHD1).
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post #280 of 743 Old 10-24-2006, 08:16 PM
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TonyPaul,

I agree with the reds being pushed on this set. When I first used the calibration discs (Avia and Video Essentials) to set up my TV there was too much red. I had to balance the color and tint controls by eye to get a better picture. Did you use any sort of calibration disc or did you just eyeball the set using the menu controls to get a picture that you liked? (Or didn't like, as it sounds in your case.)

There is a code which will get you into the service menu where more refined and exhaustive adjustments can be made. I haven't tried it yet due to time constraints, but it works on all the other consumer Panasonic sets I've tried it on. Perhaps, that will help.

I use my TV to watch movies only, so it sounds like you and I are not on the same page as far as viewing material goes. (Last night I watched Jim Jarmusch's "Dead Man" in beautiful black and white and I certainly couldn't ask for a better picture--at times it looked as good as an HD DVD.) I don't know what limitations viewing cable or satellite TV brings to the set, but I hope it works out for you. Or maybe as you indicated you're just a fan of how Pioneer does their plasmas.

(On a side note, I received my "HQV Benchmark DVD" in the mail today. Next week I start on my two month vacation so I'll be able to play around with that disc, the "HD Digital Video Essentials" disc when it arrives, and go into the service menu to see what I get my set to do.)
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post #281 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 04:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonypaul View Post

Well I have had mine for about a week and a half. Finally got it out of the box and mounted on the wall. So far I have not posted any thoughts on this set, as I wanted to try and live with it a for while. I was trying to get past the GUI and the idiot that programmed the date and time set up, that requires continually pushing a button that moves one day at a time starting from Jan 1st 2006. I actually had to read the manual to figure out how to access the HDMI imputs. Turns out it is the TV/video button. The last set I had like that was a 1985 Sony Trintron.

That being said, I am sad to report, that I for one, am somewhat dissappointed in the overall performance. I have a Pio 1130 mounted on the wall directly oposite the 65PX600U. I have a Gefen 4x1 switcher connected to a Gefen 4x1 splitter to both Plasmas. at 20' apart I can stand in the middle and look back and forth at each display. And for the most part I prefer the picture on the Pio, even though I can sit 7' from the Panny an have a more immersive experience. that I can not have with the Pio at 5' (because I see the pixel structure.) In comparing the two displays, the Pio seems to exihibt a slight push to yellow, where the Panny has a distinct red push, that so far I have not been able to get rid of. I was watching the Dallas/Giants game on ESPN HD last night, and on the Panny the turf looked like split-pea soup, grey- green, whereas on the Pio it looked a lot more green and colorful. I played with the picture settings on the 65", and yet there was no way that I could get the playing surface to look green. I have a mpeg2 HD TiVo and 2 of the new Mpeg 4 HR-20 DVRs, along with a Tosh HD-AX1 hooked up to the 4x1 switcher. I noticed how much better SD material from the Mpeg4 looks on the Panny compared to the mpeg2 SD. Some material looks very good on the Panny, but when I turn and compare it to the pic on the 1130, it also looks very good, and there are those times when the pic on the Panny is mediocre, and I turn it looks better to me on the Pio.

I am going to see if I can get a look at the 1540, I want the Panny size, but Pio look is beckoning to me.

Wow, you have some major equipment. It would be interesting if you could buy a PRO-FHD1 so you could compare 1080p PDP apples to apples.
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post #282 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 08:54 AM
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I love the way he implies the TV/Video port switching is a NEW thing.

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
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post #283 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 09:18 AM
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TonyPaul

Depending on the number of hours on the phosphers, you might be seeing what the display is capable of.

Perhaps some owners with a few hundred hours can comment on color shifts during the break in period.

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post #284 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 11:07 AM
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Hopefully, I will be able to see one of these babies look good at the new Magnolia in the local BB. I have now been there three times. They have D* HD on all their sets there and it looks awful, especially on such a huge screen. The picture is full of noise, artifacts etc. Even at 15 feet away it is very distracting. If I didn't know better, there would be no way I would consider this set. As the owner of a 50PHD7UY and a 42PWD4UY, I know what Pannies are capable of. The set was set at standard but the picture is way too blue which can be dialed out in the service menu. At least they now have a HD-A1 hooked up via HDMI but no HD-DVD discs. I was told that corporate does not permit them to play movie discs all the way through so they use D*. It seems like BB must have quite deal with D* to run their feed throughout the store. All the sets look bad, even the 34" sets. I will take a Batman Begins HD-DVD next time as they said they would try it. They did try the Curse of the Black Pearl DVD and that looked terrible. I need to see this set look much better somewhere before I will consider it. BTW, the Pioneer 1080p 50" looked awful also.
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post #285 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

Wow, you have some major equipment. It would be interesting if you could buy a PRO-FHD1 so you could compare 1080p PDP apples to apples.

I would also like to make that side by side comparison. However, I have seen and studied the FHD-1 closely, 1st at CES in Jan, then at CEDIA, in September, and lastly I drove from San Diego to Costa Mesa (South Coast Plaza Pioneer store) and spent the better part of an hour comparing the 2 FHD-1s mounted side by side above 2 1130s. Clearly for me the FHD-1 is spectacular, there is a fluidity and smoothness to the picture, that I haven't seen in any other plasma display. That said, nothing compares to real world, in your home, experience. At CES I thought that the 65PX600U (althougt at time they were calling it a 500U) with Panasonics pristine 1080p propriatry feed looked dammed good. Maybe as good as the FHD-1. (as well as one can tell based on seperate individual viewings)

This month's new word. The Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly .
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post #286 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 01:21 PM
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[quote=R Harkness]Wow TonyPaul, first negative review of the Panasonic. That's too bad. I hope you can get it working better for you.

Rich,

I really did not want this to be a negative report on the Panasonic, that is why I waited a week and a half to post. I was hoping that I would be able to re-create my CES viewing experience. I have been drooling over this display since CES in Jan, Put in my pre-order on the Monday after CES.

Going back ESPN's Monday night game, on some of the exterior shots of the stadium in the 3rd quarter, on the 65" the sky looked like a somewhat faded cobalt blue to purple,and very grainy. While on the Pio the sky was dark blue to black with no grain and lots of punch. Now maybe this is due to the Panasonic higher resolution revealing the limitations of ESPN's feed and the 720p Pio not having sufficient resolution to do the same. I am considering the use of a 1080p scaler, too see if this would make a difference. I really want this set to work for me.

This month's new word. The Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly .
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post #287 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

I love the way he implies the TV/Video port switching is a NEW thing.

I see the blue smiley, but I don't know if this means "tounge in cheek" or not. Regardless my implication was the exact opposite.

This month's new word. The Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly .
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post #288 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonypaul View Post

Rich,

I really did not want this to be a negative report on the Panasonic, that is why I waited a week and a half to post. I was hoping that I would be able to re-create my CES viewing experience. I have been drooling over this display since CES in Jan, Put in my pre-order on the Monday after CES.

Going back ESPN's Monday night game, on some of the exterior shots of the stadium in the 3rd quarter, on the 65" the sky looked like a somewhat faded cobalt blue to purple,and very grainy. While on the Pio the sky was dark blue to black with no grain and lots of punch. Now maybe this is due to the Panasonic higher resolution revealing the limitations of ESPN's feed and the 720p Pio not having sufficient resolution to do the same. I am considering the use of a 1080p scaler, too see if this would make a difference. I really want this set to work for me.

The differences you are seeing are due to the setting variations between your Elite and Panny. What settings are you using for the Elite?
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post #289 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

TonyPaul

Depending on the number of hours on the phosphers, you might be seeing what the display is capable of.

Perhaps some owners with a few hundred hours can comment on color shifts during the break in period.

Excellent point. It's not fair to compare the performance of his brand new Panasonic plasma TV against a calibrated and fully broken in Pioneer PDP. I don't have one, but I'm "reasonably" confident that after a few hundred hours of operation and when properly adjusted the picture on Tonypaul's 600U will really pop. I'm sure Tonypaul is very accustomed to watching his Pioneer 1130 and if he gives himself more time to become "properly" acquainted with the 600U he'll prefer his Panasonic PDP.
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post #290 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 04:14 PM
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There are reasons why a break in period is advisable, in terms of avoiding premature burn-in. And because of the slight increase of phosphor decline in the first hundred hours or so, spending money on pro calibration is not advised. But none of that implies that a plasma will not look just fine the day you get it, or that it can not be calibrated immediately to excellent performance.

Not to be a downer, but I'm just unaware of any technical or evidential reasons to think that a plasma will look better after some break in period. (More likely it will be the owner "breaking in" to getting used to his new plasma).
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post #291 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 05:01 PM
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Come on Rich, you know that phosphors need to age like fine wine to reach their peak perfection. Those young phosphors just haven't been excited enough to show their true colors!


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post #292 of 743 Old 10-25-2006, 05:59 PM
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lol
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post #293 of 743 Old 10-26-2006, 04:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

There are reasons why a break in period is advisable, in terms of avoiding premature burn-in. And because of the slight increase of phosphor decline in the first hundred hours or so, spending money on pro calibration is not advised. But none of that implies that a plasma will not look just fine the day you get it, or that it can not be calibrated immediately to excellent performance.

Not to be a downer, but I'm just unaware of any technical or evidential reasons to think that a plasma will look better after some break in period. (More likely it will be the owner "breaking in" to getting used to his new plasma).

But if you are accustomed to watching a particular PDP for hundreds perhaps thousands of hours it may take some time to adjust your perceptions to a different display, especially when comparing them side-by-side. Rich, you have seen the PRO-FHD1 and the TH-65PX600U... IYO, is the picture rendered by the Panasonic PDP inferior to the Pioneer?
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I agree with the reds being pushed on this set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonypaul View Post

I am sad to report, that I for one, am somewhat dissappointed in the overall performance... I was watching the Dallas/Giants game on ESPN HD last night, and on the Panny the turf looked like split-pea soup, grey- green, whereas on the Pio it looked a lot more green and colorful. I played with the picture settings on the 65", and yet there was no way that I could get the playing surface to look green...

I remember when my PX50U came out during 2005; many AVS Forum members reported seeing evidence of green push associated with those panels. My 50U has a tendency towards green push which can be compensated for by adjusting the tint control. The color management setting (on/off) makes a noticeable difference in the appearance of greens, especially with the playing fields of live sporting events. BTW... was your 600U made in Japan or assembled in Mexico?
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post #294 of 743 Old 10-26-2006, 11:41 AM
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As I wait for one of these to appear at a local store for me to view, all I can say from reading back through the posts on this and the commercial thread is there is an amazing lack of enthusiasm for this Panny. People might chime in initially after they receive their pdp, typically giving a lukewarm review complaining about black levels, lack of deep colors compared to Pioneer and others and less punch and 3D qualities than others. Tonypaul's review really didn't surprise me given such a lack of enthusiasm here for this $10k pdp. I hope my gut instinct from these pages is wrong but so far it sounds like this TV just isn't all that great. I see people more excited on here with their $2k 50" SXRD's than this expensive toy.
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post #295 of 743 Old 10-26-2006, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsf2001 View Post

...
The picture on the 65" Panny was competitive to that on the 58" Panny and that was a pleasant surprise. I would have suspected that it would not be able to be as "bright," given its greater size. All 3 panels were stellar but, after seeing all of them up close, I have to admit that it was difficult for me to justify paying so much more for the 1080p option and the modestly increased size of the 65" panel. And, I say this as a person who thought he was in the market for the 65" 1080p panel. (I was also surprised that the picture quality of the 65" 1080p Panny was not materially different from that of the 65" 8UK panel that I have at home. Again, not having both 65" panels side-by-side for comparison purposes underscores that this opinion is subjective, at best.)

....Two of the panels were using the same video feed, but the 65" panel had its own. So, we were not able to use a DVD and see the same video on all 3 panels at the same time. Plus, even though 2 of the panels were side by side, the Pioneer was placed closer to the "Best Buy" side of the store and, as a result of its placement and piano black bezel, suffered more from annoying reflections/glare. The 65" Panny benefitted from being off to the side and, as a result, was more protected from reflections/glare.

Regardless, I couldn't help but conclude that all 3 panels were stellar and that once a buyer brought any of them home and had it installed, he/she would be happy with his/her choice. Thanks again for your stellar in-depth reviews. After personally inspecting all 3 panels yesterday, it is clear to me that my eyes could never be as discerning as yours or those of some of the other reviewers in this forum.

Jason, Here is the one I keep thinking about especially since the 58" Panny can be had for less than half the 65"er. Says the 65" holds up well for its size compared to the smaller 58" Panny and 50" HD Pio. From my viewing distance of 12'-15', the 58" might be just the ticket especially for the price.

Edit: But I still want to view both the 58" and 65" before deciding. The nearest 58" er is an 8 hour round driving trip. The 65"..... ?? So, I wait, wait, wait.
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post #296 of 743 Old 10-26-2006, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason30 View Post

As I wait for one of these to appear at a local store for me to view, all I can say from reading back through the posts on this and the commercial thread is there is an amazing lack of enthusiasm for this Panny. People might chime in initially after they receive their pdp, typically giving a lukewarm review complaining about black levels, lack of deep colors compared to Pioneer and others and less punch and 3D qualities than others. Tonypaul's review really didn't surprise me given such a lack of enthusiasm here for this $10k pdp. I hope my gut instinct from these pages is wrong but so far it sounds like this TV just isn't all that great. I see people more excited on here with their $2k 50" SXRD's than this expensive toy.

I'm enthusiastic about owning my set, but having looked at a lot of different TVs (DLPs, plasmas, LCDs, Lcos) before buying this one, the differences among them are not all that "earth-shattering" because the best from each group also produce outstanding picture quality. (To me, these new-model TVs need high definition content to take advantage of the TVs' advanced electronics.) Maybe, I'm also jaded a bit about getting this plasma because I already own a very good smaller plasma.

What this set delivers for me is clarity and sharpness in a very desireable size. There was a post from another member who said when you increase the size of a set you're bound to lose resolution and sharpness. I don't find that to be true with this set. It does a remarkable job of being as sharp and clear as a smaller 42" plasma. (It certainly produces a better picture than my 3 year old 42" plasma.)

I can offer this analogy to what I'm seeing and experiencing: when I first bought an HD DVD player, I wasn't blown away by the first HD DVD movie I saw. Compared to a very well-mastered DVD, it wasn't an "earth-shattering" jump. Rather a decent-sized step up in picture quality. The more HD DVDs I watch, the more I want everything in HD, however, and their quality becomes more apparent to me. But if I switch back to SD DVDs, I don't find their picture quality to be horrid--just simply not as "enticing." Same with this TV. The more I watch this set, the more apparent the finer picture quality of 1080p is to me. However, if I watch my old tube set or somebody's 720p plasma, I don't find the picture quality to be horrid--just not as "enticing."
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post #297 of 743 Old 10-26-2006, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason30 View Post

As I wait for one of these to appear at a local store for me to view, all I can say from reading back through the posts on this and the commercial thread is there is an amazing lack of enthusiasm for this Panny. People might chime in initially after they receive their pdp, typically giving a lukewarm review complaining about black levels, lack of deep colors compared to Pioneer and others and less punch and 3D qualities than others.

Well, I am thrilled by mine.

I have no way to compare "deep colors" but the colors look accurate to me. And this is with no tweaking -- just pure standard mode. But perhaps I am just not a color fanatic.
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post #298 of 743 Old 10-26-2006, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

There are reasons why a break in period is advisable, in terms of avoiding premature burn-in. And because of the slight increase of phosphor decline in the first hundred hours or so, spending money on pro calibration is not advised.

FWIW, I have been monitoring the brightness of my set using several standard settings and images. So far, after a couple of weeks at an average of perhaps 7 hours per day in standard mode, I see no loss of brightness to a level of uncertainty of about 1%.

I.e., so far I see no evidence of anything special happening during the first 100 hours.
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post #299 of 743 Old 10-27-2006, 08:46 AM
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Here are several more write-ups of the Panny 65

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8751852


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Originally Posted by donstim View Post

I noticed a definite difference in colors between the Panasonic and the other two panels. After some adjustment, I was able to get closer, but sky blues, grass greens, and facial tones still looked better on the Pioneer and Fujitsu.

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post #300 of 743 Old 10-27-2006, 01:17 PM
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Just got my set from Sound Advice in Sarasota (Tweeter).

Sure looks good to me! Even just sitting on the floor leaning against the wall.

What picture setting are you all using?

I saw in one post that someone liked Picture +20, and Sharpness +10. Any one else have their own preferences . . . especially after calibration, if any have been done.

Thanks!
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