Pioneer PDP-505CMX / 507CMX / 607CMX monitor - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 635 Old 04-11-2007, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskies758 View Post

Is it possible to enter the integrator menu where detailed pic settings are found, when using the Key card? Pioneer menu suggests just with their cards.

Would a Key Digital card pass through a Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD signal (I know it would have to scale at least once) ?

Yes, it is possible to enter the integrator menu, when using the Key card. I just did it.
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post #452 of 635 Old 04-11-2007, 07:40 PM
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Just got my Key Card installed, with new 507CMX (Thanks Chris @ Cleveland Plasma).

Picture looks great out of the box. I will start fiddling with it in a bit here to try to make it even better.

I am open to suggestions on settings, as really I have no idea what I'm doing.
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post #453 of 635 Old 04-12-2007, 06:31 AM
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I tried using the INHD Tune-up 15 minute show to calibrate some of the settings. The brightness level that results from their test patterns is extremely low so I've just done it by eye. I'm just adjusting the KD card settings and leaving the Pioneer ones at default. At the moment I have the brightness at -2, the contrast at -2 (during the breakin period). I adjusted the tint and red gain (don't remember the settings at this moment) as faces were too red for me taste.

I do agree with other people in this forum that say that the picture of the pioneer is a bit soft. I've tried adjusting the edge enhancement but notice no difference. Picture is still excellent so the above is just nitpicking.

One question. I've noticed that every one or two minutes, the monitor has a slight change in the brightness level (hardly noticeable if you're not looking for it). Would this be a result of the energy saver setting of the pioneer monitor? If so, what setting should I have it on so it doesn't do this?
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post #454 of 635 Old 04-12-2007, 10:16 AM
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Would like to know will the 507CMX with KD Card able to do the cinema stretch like the 5070HD did?
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post #455 of 635 Old 04-13-2007, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvs69 View Post

What you are looking at is the front glass filter of the panel. It serves several functions including EMI Shielding, Near-InfraRed Emission Shielding, and Color correction (in some panels). The glass used for these filters is almost always tempered glass for safety reasons. The tempering process leads to those modulations that you are seeing. You will find these on almost on all the panels to some extent. There is nothing unusual about it.

thanks for the explanation hvs69. glad to know that my panel is as it should be.

here's a question for anyone who has made use of the kd-pc2's lip sync'ing feature: does the delay apply to the audio, or to the video. according to the manual, the feature allows delaying of up to 10 frames. however, the osd displays values from 0-90, though without units. just wondering what the correlation is here. adjusting this doesn't seem to make any noticeable difference.

the problem i'm having is that there is a noticeable lip sync issue. i have hdmi out of my stb going directly to the kd-pc2. also, i have a toslink connection going to my avm20. the audio is noticeably delayed. i'm trying to slow down the video in order to sync everything back up.

thanks again,
bA
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post #456 of 635 Old 04-14-2007, 07:12 PM
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From Visual Apex's site, some info to shed some light on the pro processor and othe features.


Pioneer Electronics PDP-507CMX
50" High Definition Plasma Display

Requires Expansion Video Card to Process Video Signals

A new standard for 50" image quality, complemented by the most advanced functions in the industry.

Pure Black Panel
Achieves the dual goals of higher brightness and greater contrast.

PDP image quality takes another impressive step forward with Pioneer's new Pure Black Panel. In addition to our exclusive Deep Encased Cell Structure and First Surface Pure Color Filter, Pioneer's breakthrough technology called Crystal Emissive Layer is now applied to our 50-inch PDP panel to achieve luminous efficiency that is much higher than the previous model. The result is unprecedented high brightness and greatly improved dark-area contrast. Blacks are blacker, while light areas maintain their true brightness values. Bright-area contrast is also significantly higher, meaning that the PDP-507CMX provides eye-catching, effective displays in bright places such as shopping malls, event venues and showrooms.

New Pure Drive Pro
Superb picture quality designed for professional applications.

High efficiency and superb picture quality have been achieve by integrating the color management, scaling, GUI mix and other image processing technologies on a single chip that Pioneer developed exclusively for our professional monitors. Scaling performance, a vital factor for our professional monitors, has been improved to ensure that even high resolution signals are reproduced with minimal data loss. In addition, ACE (Advanced Continues Emission) IV technology enables the panel to reproduct high level grat scale accurately for each color. The panel instantly identifies the type of image being shown (fast- vs. slow-motion scenes, dark vs. light scenes) and dynamically optimizes the distribution of color gradation.

Expansion Solutions Card Slot Interface
Expandability to Meet a Wide Variety of Present and Future Needs

The PDP-507CMX is designed to be ready for any type of application with the integration of two ES Card Slot interfaces, one for communication and one for enhanced data. It comes supplied with a removable communcation card that includes RS-232C and combination I/O interfaces. The second slot my optionally be used to enable video capabilities through the input of a wide range of analong or digital signals, with additional control. This means that one PDP-507CMX can be used for multiple tasks, including various applications that other PDPs can't handle. You have extensive flexibility right out of the box, and it is also ready for additional needs that may arise in the future. Pioneer's "Expansion Solutions" are one more reason why the PDP-507CMX should be your first choice for a professional plasma display.

Features
Dual Screen Function upgraded for professional use
Video Wall can display up to 25 images in a 5x5 configuration
Pioneer's industry-first Seamless Orbiter alleviates burn-in
High speed image switching display and presents multiple image sources
Dual Image Freeze function displays stills of new images as small images
RS-232C control and status feedback
Programmable Timer allows control of key functions according to an internally programmed schedule
Five Pro modes allow image adjustment for professional applications
Multiple user options available to alleviate image-burn
Low power consumption and four energy saver modes
Large GUI Display
Frame Rate Conversion Mode
Display Call
Point Zoom
Intelligent Auto Setup
Color Detail Adjustment
Smart Cooling System
Vertical and Left to Right Reversal Modes
Priority Input Mode
Layered Key Lock
Retake Specialized Color Temperature Switching Function
OSD Off
LED Off
Memory Lock
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post #457 of 635 Old 04-14-2007, 08:06 PM
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Input 2 (In) DVI-D24-pin Digital RGB Signal (DVI 1.0 Standard) Compatible with Microsoft Plug & play (VESA DDC 2B) and HDCP*

[B]* Applies only when equipped with Pioneer Video Card PDA-5003 or PDA-5004[/b]

So does this mean that if hooked up to a XA2 HD DVD player it will not recognize the HDCP handshake (when using an HDMI adaptor) with this PIO 5003/4 card NOT installed? (HDCP recognized with just included connection suite)

I'm very close to taking the plunge with either this set or the 1140, and I can have them both priced within $300 from each other from an authorized dealer. I so wish I could demo this set as I was impressed with the 1140.
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post #458 of 635 Old 04-14-2007, 08:13 PM
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I know the key digital card is supposed to be all that and a bag of chips...but buying it alleviates the price advantage I can enjoy with the 1140.

Basically, I am serious about PQ and don't want to return the set but will if it doesn't match what I saw in the 1140. The orbitor feature is nice IMO, and will be used with 360 gaming, BUT the 507 has no native component plugs for the gamecube....without picking up the key digital card. Sigh...
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post #459 of 635 Old 04-15-2007, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charrua View Post

I tried using the INHD Tune-up 15 minute show to calibrate some of the settings.

The HDnet Sunday morning Test Pattern is more accurate than the INHD test pattern. Setting the Black level is the most important, and the black on the INHD test pattern is not a true black.

You can also see a true black by watching an HD channel that has black bars, such as NBC, ABC, CBS on some programming. The side bars will be true black.

You should adjust the Brightness so the black si calm with no dithering going on. Then adjust the Contrast so the image is watchable even in a bright sunny environment. Make sure the whites aren't blown. Then go back and re-check the Brightness setting, because it will need to be redone after you change the Contrast (Brightness and Contrast effect each other).

Every channel is different, and every program is different, so you can never get a perfect setting for everything. But these guidelines should get you close, which is as good as it gets.
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post #460 of 635 Old 04-15-2007, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskies758 View Post

I know the key digital card is supposed to be all that and a bag of chips...but buying it alleviates the price advantage I can enjoy with the 1140.

Not True. You will be surprised to see how much lower the price of a KD card is below its MSRP. Talk to Chris at Cleveland plasma.
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post #461 of 635 Old 04-16-2007, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charrua View Post

I tried using the INHD Tune-up 15 minute show to calibrate some of the settings. The brightness level that results from their test patterns is extremely low so I've just done it by eye. I'm just adjusting the KD card settings and leaving the Pioneer ones at default. At the moment I have the brightness at -2, the contrast at -2 (during the breakin period). I adjusted the tint and red gain (don't remember the settings at this moment) as faces were too red for me taste.

I have a the 425-cmx and my brightness setting using DVE is -16 and contrast is +9. I used THIS guide to calibrate. Using my color filters it seemed all my colors were pretty musch right on without calibration. I also went into the integrator menu and changed my gamma 2.2, it was set to 2.0 by default. I posted all my settings on page 11 of this thread, they may not apply to any other model than the 425-cmx but you can check them out.
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post #462 of 635 Old 04-16-2007, 12:03 PM
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Well, I should be joining the fray soon guys. I bought a Toshiba HD DVD XA2 on sale from amazon, and will receive it by Wednesday. Then I'm off to compare the PQ on the 50" Pioneer consumer. If I like it then it's the 507 for me, if not, then the 427. I'm very picky with PQ.

Would using the HDMI input on Key Digital card trump the processing on the XA2, like should I use the DVI port instead? I'd think the XA2 would be even better than the Key card...it's getting rave reviews...
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post #463 of 635 Old 04-16-2007, 12:49 PM
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post #464 of 635 Old 04-16-2007, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufusyte View Post

The HDnet Sunday morning Test Pattern is more accurate than the INHD test pattern. Setting the Black level is the most important, and the black on the INHD test pattern is not a true black.

You can also see a true black by watching an HD channel that has black bars, such as NBC, ABC, CBS on some programming. The side bars will be true black.

You should adjust the Brightness so the black si calm with no dithering going on. Then adjust the Contrast so the image is watchable even in a bright sunny environment. Make sure the whites aren't blown. Then go back and re-check the Brightness setting, because it will need to be redone after you change the Contrast (Brightness and Contrast effect each other).

Every channel is different, and every program is different, so you can never get a perfect setting for everything. But these guidelines should get you close, which is as good as it gets.

I will try that tonight. Thanks for the suggestion.

As always more questions: I noticed what I believe is referred to as false contour when watching HBO last night (Entourage and Sopranos) on black images during dark scenes. Is this a function of any of the settings, HBO signal, or the motorola dvr or simply a constraint of the monitor or kd card?

Also did some research and found that two or three people (two with a Pioneer 5070) have complained about the automatic brightness/contrast change that I mentioned earlier. This is not a function of external lightsource but rather a function of the scene being shown. Unfortunately, this didn't seem like it was a common occurence but rather something that is happening in a few plasma sets. See one example in the thread below:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9742665

Not sure if I should be worried about this.
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post #465 of 635 Old 04-16-2007, 04:06 PM
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The KD-PC2 card is on the new products page of Key Digital's website, even though it is being discontinued. Good stuff.
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post #466 of 635 Old 04-17-2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid6 View Post

I have a the 425-cmx and my brightness setting using DVE is -16 and contrast is +9. I used THIS guide to calibrate. Using my color filters it seemed all my colors were pretty musch right on without calibration. I also went into the integrator menu and changed my gamma 2.2, it was set to 2.0 by default. I posted all my settings on page 11 of this thread, they may not apply to any other model than the 425-cmx but you can check them out.

are h. enhance/v. enhance a substitute for sharpness? it seems on the 507cmx, sharpness has been removed from the menu. also, the setup menu only allows configuration of auto power off, and signal format. this is in contrast to the 425cmx which, apparently, allowed a few more tweaks.

thanks,
bA
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post #467 of 635 Old 04-17-2007, 02:47 PM
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bA, Are you running in Pure mode? If so, it will take away several picture control options.
Jay
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post #468 of 635 Old 04-17-2007, 05:58 PM
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bA, Are you running in Pure mode? If so, it will take away several picture control options.
Jay

javy,
integrator menu > option > pro use > image process = normal

switching it to pure does, indeed, cause me to lose some control options.

thanks,
bA
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post #469 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 06:17 AM
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Are you connected using vga BA?
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post #470 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 09:22 AM
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A couple of questions for you experts--I read the entire thread yesterday btw, good stuff:

1) Stretching - Can the 427CMX stretch a HD picture? I have read other concerns about the Panasonic 9UK that it cannot do so. I've got a HD 32" CRT right now so I have bars regardless on the top and bottom.

2) Ease of use after configured - This has got to be the most "technical" thread I've ever read! My worry is my wife after the fact and fumbling of remotes. Right now all I use is the cable box's remote. So when switching between HD and SD with this TV, will I ever have to go back to the TV's remote, or will the TV just "know" what to do automatically? I.e...stretch when it should, etc.

3) Is there a real benefit of getting the 427CMX over the 425CMX or should I opt for the 425 to save a few bux?

THanks!
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post #471 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 11:28 AM
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It comes down to price and how long you plan on keeping the panel, from my perspective. If you can find the 425cmx for $200 to $300 less, I would probably jump on it, especially if you are the type who upgrades every 2-4 years. There's not a whole lot of difference between the two models, IMO.

Pioneers next significant jump in commercial model quality won't come until the end of this year, at the earliest (not set in stone, but a reasonable guesstimate at this point), perhaps two years-ish if you want prices to drop down to the prices at which you can find the 425cmx/427cmx/507cmx's for today. Supposedly, they will incorporate substantially better black levels and exhibit even less screen reflectivity than what Pioneer (or any plasma brand) offers today.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #472 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 11:41 AM
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Are you connected using vga BA?

hdmi

-bA
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post #473 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by badassfajita View Post

3) Is there a real benefit of getting the 427CMX over the 425CMX or should I opt for the 425 to save a few bux?!

Do you actually know anyone with PDP-425CMX? If so I would get the PDP-425CMX.
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post #474 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badassfajita View Post

A couple of questions for you experts--I read the entire thread yesterday btw, good stuff:

1) Stretching - Can the 427CMX stretch a HD picture? I have read other concerns about the Panasonic 9UK that it cannot do so. I've got a HD 32" CRT right now so I have bars regardless on the top and bottom.

2) Ease of use after configured - This has got to be the most "technical" thread I've ever read! My worry is my wife after the fact and fumbling of remotes. Right now all I use is the cable box's remote. So when switching between HD and SD with this TV, will I ever have to go back to the TV's remote, or will the TV just "know" what to do automatically? I.e...stretch when it should, etc.

3) Is there a real benefit of getting the 427CMX over the 425CMX or should I opt for the 425 to save a few bux?

THanks!

On the 507CMX (I'm assuming the 427CMX is the same), you can stretch the HD picture.

The cable box on mine (motorola 6412) automatically stretches the SD channels and I assume it would be the same for you. The tv will not automatically stretch a 4:3 program on an HD channel (however, I believe other tvs don't do this either). I need the KD remote to do that.

Basically, the monitor is as simple to use as any other plasma.
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post #475 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 02:25 PM
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Why would anyone stretch HD anyway? HD fills the screen fully. Keep in mind usually the direct TV boxes, cable boxes, and external devises can be stretched anyway.
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post #476 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Why would anyone stretch HD anyway? HD fills the screen fully. Keep in mind usually the direct TV boxes, cable boxes, and external devises can be stretched anyway.

The only people that would stretch HD are those obsessed that the logos or other still images will cause IR.
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post #477 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Why would anyone stretch HD anyway? HD fills the screen fully. Keep in mind usually the direct TV boxes, cable boxes, and external devises can be stretched anyway.

Some OTA HD signals in Toronto are still in 4:3 format. You have to stretch...
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post #478 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 02:43 PM
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post #479 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I see, well a cable box or Direct tv box has stretch features so I guess either way the case is closed ??

I asked b/c over on the Panny 9UK thread, I read somewhere that the stretch on the cable box sux compared to the TV's stretch.
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post #480 of 635 Old 04-18-2007, 03:00 PM
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^^^^ I understand.....that is what the forum is about, just was not sure why it can up. There are only 3 stretch modes on most boxes and on most panels 5 (key word being "most"), except for NEC there are a ton. 2 more stretch modes is not alot of other options.
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