Panasonic Plasma Ad 11/22/06 USA TODAY - How Much Truth? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 04:41 PM
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You know why everything Panasonic said is true? Because the used the word "most". That could mean 49.51111111111111111111111111111111111111% or 75% or 95%. I had yet to see any Plasma that can reproduce the same brightness, contrast and viewing angles as any of the Sony or Samsung 1080p LCD sets. The Sony XBR line of LCD are designed second to none. Panasonic cannot even touch them on overall design. They are striking to look at. But the one thing that Panasoic forgot to mention in their ad is what is known as the cloudy effect and/or backlight leak seen on a whole range of LCD panels (especially Sony and Samsung) at 40" or larger. They really should have used that, as that fact alone might make me want to buy a Plasma!!!

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post #32 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireballz
That is probably more of a legal precautionary thing if you ask me, rather than a fault of the technology. I've not once heard of an LCD having burn-in. If there has been a case, it was probably an EXTREMELY rare situation.
That is actually not a legal but a practical advice. Just yesterday I've read two different website that describes a procedure for their technicians how to repair burn in on LCD. Do a search on "LCD persistance".
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post #33 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 05:22 PM
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All TV's are basically heaters. Energy goes in in the form of electricity, and gets converted to something else. The possibilities are kinetic, thermal, and EM. Since there are no moving parts (save for a fan on a larger screen), all the consumed energy is turned into either thermal or EM. The visible light they emit is a small fraction of the energy they consume. Which leaves the bulk of the 200 or so watts to be released as thermal.

So, for all intents and purposes, if a TV consumes 200watts of electricity, it puts out ~200watts of heat. Since it's well accepted that a large screen LCD uses about 150-200 watts of electricity, it's got to be putting out about the same heat as a plasma. Maybe it's just not where you are feeling.


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Originally Posted by McCormick
So my question is, why does my Plasma feel like its a heater for my living room while my same size LCD is cool? Heat and electronics dont mix well I would assume.
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post #34 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 05:27 PM
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But that's just it. It's persistence. It's the result of the LCD 'shutter' becoming stuck in a partially translucent state from being static for so long. Generally, the effect is reversible by 'exercising' the pixels, unlike plasma/CRT burn-in which is irreversible.

If you are looking for a TV for move/sports/general TV viewing, I think plasma is the best option (and why I have 2 of them at home). For computer display, commercial signage, or for newsfeeds (CNN with tickers, etc), then LCD is the best option. (which is why I use them for our large displays in our network operations center.)


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Originally Posted by MatWiz
That is actually not a legal but a practical advice. Just yesterday I've read two different website that describes a procedure for their technicians how to repair burn in on LCD. Do a search on "LCD persistance".
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post #35 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 06:02 PM
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Panasonic has never taken LCD production serious and they dominate PDP to this point so they do not have much to lose with attacking LCD as what they produce in LCD don't mean jack to their bottom line. Surprised they didn't post the interview with the VP of Panasonic USA last January when he stated that LCD in fact has many advantages over PDP when it comes to bright rooms.

1. Come on folks let's be honest - go back and read the PDP threads and how many reports of TIR, IR - Burn in is pretty much resolved but no way are those two factors cured in all PDP's. TIR and IR is regularly being reported in many PDP owners threads.

2. REFLECTION CITY - PDP is for a Narcisist that may enjoy looking at their own reflection or the reflection of their room. Come on be honest - I've owned both and the PDP fricking sucks in a bright room with tall windows you don't want to place blinds on unless perhaps one lives in an apt with 8' ceilings. Reflections competing with a HT SUCKS and that is what the Panny delivers or please tell me fanboys how you deny that FACT!

3. Dirty WHITES on the Panny looks like a urinated on a sheet compared to an LCD. I owned the Panny and it's whites were horrendous or may I say piss poor inferior? ;) Contrast Ratio goes in more than one direction BLACK - GRAY and WHITE. PDP owners Puff Blacks yet at the same time are in denial of the WHITES - and in the next year or so your bragging rights to black will end also with SED, and perhaps FED and when Sharp migrates the capabilities of it's million to one CR to consumer panels.

4. LCD simply runs more troublefree My experience) - I own 4 LCD TV's now and I have 250 LCD Panels on my Network most approaching 4 years old running 24/7 and I lost one after it's 3 year warranty not a single DOA at purchase. I don't know much else with a better track record and I have a large network and am the Purchasing Manager and I've never had to have warranty service on a single one in my network or in my home. ZERO Burn-in EVER.

5. The OLD BLACKS B.S. - Having owned both and SXRD I'll tell you something I presently own a 57" Sharp the past month and when it plays anything with black it is deep black with details - the only grays you see is when nothing is on the screen - the VOID and who cares - HD DVD looks phoenomenal on this LCD as I'm certain it looks on the Sony and Samsung LCD. Viewing HD DVD's and HD I've never seen a better picture and Sin City is amazing which no flaws whatsoever.

6. My Sharp has a 176 degree viewing angle and definitely improved over my 45" from last year and next years Samsungs will be 180 degree's. To me this is a non-issue.

7. ZERO break-in period at installation and I can fall asleep and leave my LCD's running without an issue to wake up to xbox360 console or a logo retained while I view other things and run whitewash screens and whatever crap trying to rid IR.

Admittedly the new Sharp D62's are in trouble with their banding issues and bad sign that they are being cleared at Overstock but to me that means the D92 cannot be far behind to place that mistake behind them. My 57" Sharp has none of those issues and is made in Japan not Mexico. My 57" is heavy as hell at 164 lbs so that is not an advantage in the larger size but it looks so great from 8.5' I'm considering the larger next gen Sharp at 65" or the 70" Samsung.

Next year Samsung has an LCD with 146% Color Gamut and please show me a PDP with that capability or this BS that it cannot match the color gamut.

7. Sharp didn't Ala Carte my TV either like panny does with it's 65" where you get no stand ($1200) and speakers ($900) that's Consumer Friendly? If I were to buy a PDP for a room with controlled lighting it would be the Pioneer hands down! :D

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #36 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCormick
So my question is, why does my Plasma feel like its a heater for my living room while my same size LCD is cool? Heat and electronics dont mix well I would assume.
Poorly designed plasma? What kind is it? My Panasonic 7UY seems to run cooler than my 17" Samsung LCD computer monitor.

Image retention is temporary, isn't it? I've actually heard of an LCD with actual permanent burn-in. Not a quality LCD, but a cheap add-on LCD for game consoles. Refurbished ones had permanent Japanese characters burned into them.

Shawn
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post #37 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3rdpower
Hahaha... another stupid Plasma versus LCD post. Panasonic is doing what they can to cover their market. LCD is starting to catch up. The angle is not as bad on my Samsung 1080p...

Economics... BIG electronic players versus smaller players. Sure, plasma is better then LCD in a lot of areas. But the difference is minimal for the gains - LCD is more cost effective and will continue to go down in price while plasma stay expensive. Samsung and Sony are buddying up and helping to drive down the cost and technology more. It's almost like the VHS versus Beta Max battle... retarded. Both are good for their purposes. My 1080p LCD looks absolutely awesome and I didn't pay 1/2 of what the FHD1 cost.
hey 3rd--are you high? "lcds will continue to go down in price, while plasma stays expensive" Huh? do you live in a cave? check this out: top tier 50" plasmas such as panny, sammy, toshiba have declined in price from about 4k$ to just over 2k$ in the past few months. the 42" plasmas have also dropped in price about 40%(for example, you can get a 42" panny plasma on line from reputable dealers for about 1200$, msrp--3000$, a 60% price cut!!).

on the other hand, though the lcd's have dropped about 30%, per inch they are STILL significantly higher than plasmas. Eg--42"panny plasma px600(ALL the BELLS/WHISTLES)sells for about 1600-1700$,hitachi 42" plasma--about 1500-1600$, the sammy 42" plasma sells for 1400$, toshiba 42" plasma--1300$.

the 2" smaller 40" sammy 720p lcd sells for 1600-1700$ at the same dealer. jvc 40" 720p--1800$, sony 720p lcd--1800-1900$. thus, lcd SMALLER and MORE EXPENSIVE!!!!!

my guess is that you were comparing the pio fhd1 to the 1080p lcd you have. this is not a valid comparison. yes the fhd1 is pricey, but has come down over 30% in less than 3 months!! and it was the first 1080p plasma, no surprise of its hi price as it had NO competition, whereas all the 1080p lcd's have b een out competing in the marketplace for the past few months and have driven each other's price down. as more 1080p plasmas hit the mkt, price will come down accordingly.

thus, i do NOT see lcd's blowing away plasma on price. as long as plasma is perceived as a better PQ it will continue to have its place in the market.

the lcd vs plasma battle MIGHT be for naught, as SED tv is right around the corner(also LED< OLED< LASER< ???). reportedly it has a much better PQ, is thinner and lighter, and is derived from old technology(CRT) that is old hat to the manufacturers and, hopefully, won't have to go thru such severe . growing pains as lcd and plasma have.

i don't pretend to be an expert in this stuff by any means, but it's fun to argue and debate each other's position---i always learn something in the process. by the way--only kidding about your being high, etc--just a joke. good luck, jeroldd

PS--prices i used to compare were only approx
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post #38 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 08:02 PM
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lol, what would this forum be without the traditional monthly rant about dirty whites and "my eyes! my eyes!" retina-searing reflection from dear 'ol Westa. :D

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #39 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969
7. Sharp didn't Ala Carte my TV either like panny does with it's 65" where you get no stand ($1200) and speakers ($900) that's Consumer Friendly? If I were to buy a PDP for a room with controlled lighting it would be the Pioneer hands down! :D
You forgot the pizza ($500), the beer ($100) and the ho ($20).
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post #40 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions
lol, what would this forum be without the traditional monthly rant about dirty whites and "my eyes! my eyes!" retina-searing reflection from dear 'ol Westa. :D
It's kinda like listening to Steve Jobs from Apple. We make the fastest PC's !!! :rolleyes:


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post #41 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroldd
thus, i do NOT see lcd's blowing away plasma on price. as long as plasma is perceived as a better PQ it will continue to have its place in the market.
On the very low end, I'm seeing some very low prices coming from Chinese manufacturers. 32" LCDs <$500, 37" LCDs <$700, 42" LCDs <$1000.
It's my understanding these low cost Chinese LCDs are flying off the shelves as fast as the retailers can get them. LCDs do seem to have the edge when it comes to low cost.

Shawn
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post #42 of 45 Old 11-29-2006, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireballz
That is probably more of a legal precautionary thing if you ask me, rather than a fault of the technology. I've not once heard of an LCD having burn-in. If there has been a case, it was probably an EXTREMELY rare situation.
No, it is not. I read a lot of comment on Russian forum from people who have these 'ghost' images on their LCD monitors. IPS screens are more affected by this issue; however, there were some posts from MVA/PVA users.
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post #43 of 45 Old 12-01-2006, 01:51 PM
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please help, i was told by an a/v consultant to never use a plasma monitor

in my home. i was torn between the panasonic th50ph9uk, and the pioneer pdp-505cmx

any advice
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post #44 of 45 Old 12-01-2006, 01:59 PM
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How come Panasonic doesn't advertise that they don't charge extra for clayface? Looks like deperation advertisement to me. Truth is that Panasonic is losing their place as the leader to LCDs, Pioneer and Samsung and they are slashing prices and placing goofy ads.

What they should do is focus on developing new and enhanced technology and not relying on 18 month old technology
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post #45 of 45 Old 12-01-2006, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpbuckeye
please help, i was told by an a/v consultant to never use a plasma monitor

in my home. i was torn between the panasonic th50ph9uk, and the pioneer pdp-505cmx

any advice
For your first problem, that's easy, just ignore his advice.
Actually, if you're going to be using it as a PC monitor to browse the web, you probably should stick to LCD.

As for the Panny vs. Pioneer, I'd go for the Panasonic. The Panasonic is cheaper and has better resolution, 1366x768 vs. 1280x768.

Shawn
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