The OFFICIAL Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite 50'' 1080p Plasma - OWNERS THREAD - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2025 Old 12-22-2006, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Well that did not take long, more unofficial claims of a monarchy have returned......

Hehe, apparently so.

Does it have to be a monarchy? Can't this be more republic or democratic? Honestly, for the money you pay for that 1080p Pioneer Plasma, you'd think it should be ... well... at least a really big executive for a big company?

Besides, if we are talking about monarchies, I'd prefer a princess.

Until I get confirmation, that the black levels on the Pro-FHD1 is better than any of the lower rez models I can wait.

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post #182 of 2025 Old 12-22-2006, 09:39 PM
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Come on guys..how can nobody answer my trivia question???? Look I will give you some clues...it is a "B" movie classic...well make that a "C" movie classic...if you were a "squid"..you were uncool, lame and just plain a "squid". Our hero's name is JACK D...., we are the cream of HT, come on guys "sequals were made and actually a comic book was made on this hero.....Am I just losing my mind.....can someone out there redem the movie collector in you....or....Are you just a bunch of "Squids"????
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post #183 of 2025 Old 12-22-2006, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Hehe, apparently so.

Does it have to be a monarchy? Can't this be more republic or democratic? Honestly, for the money you pay for that 1080p Pioneer Plasma, you'd think it should be ... well... at least a really big executive for a big company?

Besides, if we are talking about monarchies, I'd prefer a princess.

Until I get confirmation, that the black levels on the Pro-FHD1 is better than any of the lower rez models I can wait.

You mean you don't own one already?

John
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post #184 of 2025 Old 12-22-2006, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JFR0317 View Post

You mean you don't own one already?

Egh, guilty as charged. Too tempting.

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post #185 of 2025 Old 12-22-2006, 10:43 PM
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Just teasing. Your comments are welcome. I have both the 1140 and the FHD1. Both have their strong points (particularly the 1140's price), but I like the FHD1 better. In reality, you can't go wrong with either set.

Happy holidays!

John
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post #186 of 2025 Old 12-22-2006, 10:45 PM
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The title of the movie is T......s, SCFI...low budget, the movie star initials are T.T.
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post #187 of 2025 Old 12-22-2006, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JFR0317 View Post

Just teasing. Your comments are welcome. I have both the 1140 and the FHD1. Both have their strong points (particularly the 1140's price), but I like the FHD1 better. In reality, you can't go wrong with either set.

Happy holidays!

Can you comment on the black level comparisons?

I just want to get this straightened out. I was sure that the black levels on the 1140 seemed darker when I checked... and the contrast ratio Pioneer gives the 1140 is better than the FH-D1 (4000:1 vs. 3000:1). I guess that was enough of an indication.

But after seeing all the 'hype' of Panasonic plasmas black levels get crumbled when I saw one live, the more news and opinions the better. And then some claim that the black levels on the Pro-FHD1 are better... (which I am questioning but not shunning... maybe a pro-calibration improved them?)

I am trying to find a plasma for a friend of mine. If the blacks are better on the pro-FHD1, then I will most defintely suggest that to him, regardless of the higher price.

If not, then I do not think the higher resolution will be much of a benefit to him. The 1140 seems right... and more fitting.

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post #188 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Can you comment on the black level comparisons?

I just want to get this straightened out. I was sure that the black levels on the 1140 seemed darker when I checked... and the contrast ratio Pioneer gives the 1140 is better than the FH-D1 (4000:1 vs. 3000:1). I guess that was enough of an indication.

But after seeing all the 'hype' of Panasonic plasmas black levels get crumbled when I saw one live, the more news and opinions the better. And then some claim that the black levels on the Pro-FHD1 are better... (which I am questioning but not shunning... maybe a pro-calibration improved them?)

I am trying to find a plasma for a friend of mine. If the blacks are better on the pro-FHD1, then I will most defintely suggest that to him, regardless of the higher price.

If not, then I do not think the higher resolution will be much of a benefit to him. The 1140 seems right... and more fitting.

Use your eyes man ! Isn't that what counts ? Take a trip down to your local BB/Magnolia, and compare this set to others. Black levels are important...but you cannot reduce the viewing experience down to one parameter. Overall, as many will state, this set is one of the finest out there. And viewing it in your home is a magical experience. I am loving every minute of it.
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post #189 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinkus View Post

Use your eyes man ! Isn't that what counts ? Take a trip down to your local BB/Magnolia, and compare this set to others. Black levels are important...but you cannot reduce the viewing experience down to one parameter. Overall, as many will state, this set is one of the finest out there. And viewing it in your home is a magical experience. I am loving every minute of it.

Black levels is NOT the only parameter! Of course not. But with the new gen Pioneers, I don't think color reproduction/video processing... or any of the other factors to a good picture are much of a concern because I think any Pioneer is top notch in terms of these parameters.

Not to say that the black levels are not awesome because honestly? They're part of the best in class in digital flat panels in the new-gen (and that includes Panasonic). Just a simple question about black levels, I do not want to raise up any "king" questions please.

All of these sets, (excluding those cheap ass series) are great... to the 70 series, to the Elites, to the Pro-FHD1!

In terms of when I saw the Pro-FHD1 vs. the 1140, I saw what I saw, but I can only attest so much to an in-store picture... granted I was in a dark room but w/o total control w/ both TV sets I cannot be totally sure.

Simple question, that can be answered by a person that has both TVs. I love 1080p too, but the pixel count is not the deal maker for me.

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post #190 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 01:36 AM
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jScottmsc

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I thought d-nice had some FHD1 settings for the Oppo971, but I don't see them. Anyone know a link?. ... Download the PDF in the first post of this thread...it has all D-Nice's latest settings that apply to the FHD-1

I downloaded it on Dec15th. The PDF has:
- Cable/Satellite boxes
- Denon 3910
- Pio 79avi
- Toshiba HD-A1/XA1

but no Oppo971

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post #191 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Black levels is NOT the only parameter! Of course not. But with the new gen Pioneers, I don't think color reproduction/video processing... or any of the other factors to a good picture are much of a concern because I think any Pioneer is top notch in terms of these parameters.

Not to say that the black levels are not awesome because honestly? They're part of the best in class in digital flat panels in the new-gen (and that includes Panasonic). Just a simple question about black levels, I do not want to raise up any "king" questions please.

All of these sets, (excluding those cheap ass series) are great... to the 70 series, to the Elites, to the Pro-FHD1!

In terms of when I saw the Pro-FHD1 vs. the 1140, I saw what I saw, but I can only attest so much to an in-store picture... granted I was in a dark room but w/o total control w/ both TV sets I cannot be totally sure.

Simple question, that can be answered by a person that has both TVs. I love 1080p too, but the pixel count is not the deal maker for me.

I understand what you're asking about, but I would really hate to start an entire new round of the "black levels are all that matters/no, they're not" and "you can't tell the difference between 1080p and 768p at more than X feet/yes, you can" that plagued the first FHD1 thread.

Having said that, I will offer my impressions, along with the disclaimer that they are solely based on my opinion and are valid only for my particular units in my house with my viewing material. First of all, my FHD1 has been professionally calibrated, and it has a slightly lower 0 IRE level (0.028 foot-lamberts) after calibration than it did before (0.039 ftl) when I was using some popular settings from the AVS forum. The 1140 has not been calibrated, but I have adjusted its parameters myself based very closely on the FHD1 settings. When watching something like a 4 x 3 upconverted program being shown on an HD station which adds black pillar-bars, those bars appear slightly darker on the 1140, but the 1140 is mounted against a nearly white wall, while the FHD1 sits inside a wall cabinet originally sized for a rear projection TV. Also, the ambient light control is much better in the FHD1's room. So, yes, black letterbox bars or pillar-box bars do appear slightly darker on my 1140 than on my FHD1. However, I can't detect any ill effects in terms of the FHD1's picture quality as a result of this. If you'll look back to the earlier part of this thread, you can find the calibration results of my FHD1 as posted by umr. Those post-calibration results clearly show that the FHD1 is an outstanding performer.

My viewing position for the FHD1 is about 9 feet, and I mainly watch HD-DVD and, recently, Blu-ray movies, some network HD shows like "Daybreak" and "Heroes", and HD football. The FHD1's performance for this wide variety of programming is outstanding, and with all due respect to some other posters, I believe the FHD1 performs better and appears slightly sharper than the 1140 when it is viewed at the same 9 foot distance.

You may be asking yourselves, if he likes the FHD1 so much, why did he buy the 1140 instead of another FHD1? Well, there are several reasons. One, the 1140 obviously costs less (<$4K versus >$6K). Two, the 1140 is in our living room over the fireplace, and while you can stand at the same distance in front of it that the seated viewing distance is for the FHD1, the seated distance for the 1140 is about 14 feet. Three, the 1140 has an internal tuner and accepts a cablecard, and I wanted to be able to just watch the TV on a standalone basis occasionally when I didn't want to fire up the second zone of the AV system that feeds my living room. Finally, I chose the 1140 versus a 1540 since the 1140 was the largest set that would fit the space over my fireplace.

It still boils down to individual preferences, cost considerations, primary types of programming to be viewed, room lighting, etc. In my case, I'm lucky to have both sets. If I could only get one, I'd get the FHD1 since it best meets my requirements and preferences for the home theater room where I have it installed.

Hope this helps, but it's just my opinion.

Happy holidays to all!

John
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post #192 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 06:29 AM
 
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Just curious... have you seen a 65PX600U, if so, what are your impressions of this panel as compared to the PRO-FHD1?
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post #193 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by optivity View Post

Just curious... have you seen a 65PX600U, if so, what are your impressions of this panel as compared to the PRO-FHD1?

Yes, I have seen one, but only in a Best Buy Magnolia Home Theater under less than perfect conditions with the Best Buy HD demo loop running and in a Tweeter with a Directv HD feed. It is a very nice panel, but I didn't consider it because it would not have fit either of my spaces. Therefore, I didn't pursue trying to get either store to put on some more worthy demo material.

John
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post #194 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 08:26 AM
 
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Thanks, I'm in the market for a ~60" 1080p FP display and it will be interesting to see what 2007 or 2008 brings.
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post #195 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by optivity View Post

Just curious... have you seen a 65PX600U, if so, what are your impressions of this panel as compared to the PRO-FHD1?

I have seen it at BB and in a actual hometheater (two movies), second best panel out there if you are talking about the 1080p model. The FHD1 is the clear picture champ if it goes head to head, more detail in the picutre but that should be the case if its 65 vs 50. Even in BB/MAG in san diego the saleman says the FHD1 is the clear winner and the "best they have".
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post #196 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 09:56 AM
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I saw both yesterday at BB Magnolia, both are fantastic panels, if you have the room and $ the 65" is the way to go, picture quality is superb on both, one is not better than the other, it's all about size, you can't go wrong with either panel.
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post #197 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JFR0317 View Post

Count me and my 22 year old son home for Christmas as two who don't hear any buzzing unless we get within about 18 inches or so of the set (which is in the "Standard" power option mode). Even then, it is pretty low (yeah, OK, he hears more than I do, but he still says not much).

I wonder what elevation your sets are at. Most plasmas will definitely buzz more at higher elevations. Here in Houston, I can't be at much more than 100 feet, so that may be a factor in not hearing much, as well as possible set to set variations.

same here except maybe i need to get even closer to hear mine buzz...i'm in ny.
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post #198 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 11:01 AM
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Actually, I had to get right by the set to hear the buzzing, but my son says he could barely hear something at something like the 18 inches. I went with that since I know his hearing is better than mine.

John
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post #199 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 11:18 AM
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It's not the greatest thing to show off the FHD1, but White Christmas is seasonal.



(the white bit reflecting in the black border of the FHD1 at the top, is my shirt)

An amateur built the Ark. Titanic was built by professionals. Of course Noah took a little advice.
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post #200 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JFR0317 View Post

I understand what you're asking about, but I would really hate to start an entire new round of the "black levels are all that matters/no, they're not" and "you can't tell the difference between 1080p and 768p at more than X feet/yes, you can" that plagued the first FHD1 thread.

Having said that, I will offer my impressions, along with the disclaimer that they are solely based on my opinion and are valid only for my particular units in my house with my viewing material. First of all, my FHD1 has been professionally calibrated, and it has a slightly lower 0 IRE level (0.028 foot-lamberts) after calibration than it did before (0.039 ftl) when I was using some popular settings from the AVS forum. The 1140 has not been calibrated, but I have adjusted its parameters myself based very closely on the FHD1 settings. When watching something like a 4 x 3 upconverted program being shown on an HD station which adds black pillar-bars, those bars appear slightly darker on the 1140, but the 1140 is mounted against a nearly white wall, while the FHD1 sits inside a wall cabinet originally sized for a rear projection TV. Also, the ambient light control is much better in the FHD1's room. So, yes, black letterbox bars or pillar-box bars do appear slightly darker on my 1140 than on my FHD1. However, I can't detect any ill effects in terms of the FHD1's picture quality as a result of this. If you'll look back to the earlier part of this thread, you can find the calibration results of my FHD1 as posted by umr. Those post-calibration results clearly show that the FHD1 is an outstanding performer.

My viewing position for the FHD1 is about 9 feet, and I mainly watch HD-DVD and, recently, Blu-ray movies, some network HD shows like "Daybreak" and "Heroes", and HD football. The FHD1's performance for this wide variety of programming is outstanding, and with all due respect to some other posters, I believe the FHD1 performs better and appears slightly sharper than the 1140 when it is viewed at the same 9 foot distance.

You may be asking yourselves, if he likes the FHD1 so much, why did he buy the 1140 instead of another FHD1? Well, there are several reasons. One, the 1140 obviously costs less (<$4K versus >$6K). Two, the 1140 is in our living room over the fireplace, and while you can stand at the same distance in front of it that the seated viewing distance is for the FHD1, the seated distance for the 1140 is about 14 feet. Three, the 1140 has an internal tuner and accepts a cablecard, and I wanted to be able to just watch the TV on a standalone basis occasionally when I didn't want to fire up the second zone of the AV system that feeds my living room. Finally, I chose the 1140 versus a 1540 since the 1140 was the largest set that would fit the space over my fireplace.

It still boils down to individual preferences, cost considerations, primary types of programming to be viewed, room lighting, etc. In my case, I'm lucky to have both sets. If I could only get one, I'd get the FHD1 since it best meets my requirements and preferences for the home theater room where I have it installed.

Hope this helps, but it's just my opinion.

Happy holidays to all!

Thank You for that post. That's all I needed.

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post #201 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 01:49 PM
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I've started the breakin DVD- thanks for the information. I haven't changed any of my settings yet but, after watching a couple of hours of ESPN basketball, I changed the channel and found the ESPN logo down in the bottom corner of my screen. Once I changed the channel, it went away after one to two minutes BUT STILL! This is a high end product and most of the burn-in naysayers describe that it isn't an issue unless you leave it on a still image for hours and hours. Athough mine was just image retention (and not burn-in) it is a little concerning, after all I'd think the commercial breaks woould have been enough to refresh the pixels in question.

Is this something that I should just relax and ignore or are viewing habit changes in order to protect my investment? Will it become less frequent as the hours accumulate on my panel (after 200 hours)?

The kids have officially been banned to the other TV until I become more comfortable.
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post #202 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 02:03 PM
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You mentioned that you had not yet touched the standard picture settings. If you still have not adjusted them, you may want to consider at least lowering the Contrast from the out of the box setting of 40 down to something more like 25 or 30 at least until you get more hours on your set. I started out with such settings and am still only at 33 for Contrast after my calibration. It may just be my set, but I've had no image retention with either 2.35:1 letterbox movies or with ESPN. Personally, I would try to figure out how to live with the D-nice break-in settings, with maybe a few tweaks if needed to look good to you, for around 200 hours. It seems to have worked for me.

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post #203 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 07:59 PM
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After 200 hours, can I safely move back to my current settings?
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post #204 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 08:39 PM
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I don't know what your current settings are. If they are 40 for contrast, I'm not sure why you'd want them to stay that way. My point in saying that my professionally calibrated settings are using a 33 contrast was to say that 40 is probably higher than the level that would yield a result that is not overdriving your set. If your viewing conditions warrant more output, then I'm not sure what you need or if a Pioneer plasma will work for you. Again, I have no idea whether leaving it at your current settings is OK because I don't know what those settings are, so let us know your settings. Also, since from reading various postings on multiple threads doesn't say that one set will perform exactly the same as another, I don't know what are the "right" settings for your set. All I am saying is that others are getting satisfactory results with their FHD1's without image retention issues when using something other than default settings.

Let us know how things go. Happy holidays!

John
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post #205 of 2025 Old 12-23-2006, 10:23 PM
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JFR: I'm simply using the default settings. I plan on having it calibrated, but he told me to wait a few weeks and let the set get a few hours on it first. I personally haven't fooled around with the settings (like I normally would) because I figure he's coming soon anyway.

As to why I haven't lowered the settings (as recommended): stubborness, I guess. So many people (including Pioneer and Panasonic reps) have said that basically, burn-in is practically non-existant and/or extremely rare. I figured SURELY the default settings are safe - why in the world would they default harmful settings? I understand the marketing behind "torch settings" but they sit on the showroom floor with showroom settings for MONTHS with no apparent problems (although I suspect those are cleverly desgined feeds as well).

As a person who a few months ago swore I would never own a plasma due to the butt-clinching stress that fear of burning in a $6k plasma would produce. AS I recall, I said something to the effect of "choosing plasma is more of a lifestyle choice" because plasma seems to dictate how you view much more so than LCD.

But after so many people said I was paranoid, I began to believe them and decided to buy into the beauty of plasma. Now, I think I was right to begin with. Will I ALWAYS have issues? I like to watch my letterbox DVD's without streching them, sometimes the same for 4:3. I like to watch ESPN for HOURS on end and I like to game on my primary TV (now the FHD1) with my Xbox 360 and PS3. THOSE are my normal viewing habits, will I ever be able to return to normal?

Right now, my "normal" viewing habits have caused image retention on at least two occasions: once with the letterbox bars of an HD-DVD and once after a basketball marathon on ESPN (Tennessee in OT over Texas!). I just want to be in control of my TV, not vice versa - again, I'm stubborn (but I don't want stubborness to cost me my FHD1).

reio-what are you trying to see in JFoster's creases that has you cranking on your TV?
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post #206 of 2025 Old 12-24-2006, 05:27 AM
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ckelly33 - the point I was trying to make is that my set's calibrated settings are lower than the out of the box settings with respect to contrast (33 versus 40), and I'm not having any image retention issues. I watched the same basketball game, and I watch letterboxed movies all of the time. I also have a Pioneer Elite 1140 that I got 3 weeks ago that I have had set to approximately the same settings (meaning I didn't use any break-in settings), and I'm not having any image retention issues with it.

You certainly don't have to use the same settings that I do, but if you are waiting to get your set calibrated, I just wanted to let you know that my calibrated settings don't use that high of a contrast setting and are not causing me any problems or making me change my viewing habits. As for being in control of your TV, that's what the remote control is for. If it gives you any lip, show it who's boss, and turn it off.

John
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post #207 of 2025 Old 12-24-2006, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ckelly33 View Post

JFR: I'm simply using the default settings. I plan on having it calibrated, but he told me to wait a few weeks and let the set get a few hours on it first. I personally haven't fooled around with the settings (like I normally would) because I figure he's coming soon anyway.

As to why I haven't lowered the settings (as recommended): stubborness, I guess. So many people (including Pioneer and Panasonic reps) have said that basically, burn-in is practically non-existant and/or extremely rare. I figured SURELY the default settings are safe - why in the world would they default harmful settings? I understand the marketing behind "torch settings" but they sit on the showroom floor with showroom settings for MONTHS with no apparent problems (although I suspect those are cleverly desgined feeds as well).

As a person who a few months ago swore I would never own a plasma due to the butt-clinching stress that fear of burning in a $6k plasma would produce. AS I recall, I said something to the effect of "choosing plasma is more of a lifestyle choice" because plasma seems to dictate how you view much more so than LCD.

But after so many people said I was paranoid, I began to believe them and decided to buy into the beauty of plasma. Now, I think I was right to begin with. Will I ALWAYS have issues? I like to watch my letterbox DVD's without streching them, sometimes the same for 4:3. I like to watch ESPN for HOURS on end and I like to game on my primary TV (now the FHD1) with my Xbox 360 and PS3. THOSE are my normal viewing habits, will I ever be able to return to normal?

Right now, my "normal" viewing habits have caused image retention on at least two occasions: once with the letterbox bars of an HD-DVD and once after a basketball marathon on ESPN (Tennessee in OT over Texas!). I just want to be in control of my TV, not vice versa - again, I'm stubborn (but I don't want stubborness to cost me my FHD1).

reio-what are you trying to see in JFoster's creases that has you cranking on your TV?

You really need to relax. I've had Plasmas since 2000 and have never had problems and the current sets are MUCH more resistant to burn in.
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post #208 of 2025 Old 12-24-2006, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JFR0317 View Post

As for being in control of your TV, that's what the remote control is for. If it gives you any lip, show it who's boss, and turn it off.

I like that! Very funny. Thanks for your recommendations. I have since turned the contrast down (along with my stubbornness-for now) with no more retention noticed. I watched The Lake House on HD-DVD and, contrary to prior practices, I did not stretch the image every now and again to "protect" my screen. After a full movie, for the first time I had no image retention (like I did when watching an HD-DVD before).

I realize I am over-reacting a bit but I didn't buy a Pioneer plasma 4 years ago for this very reason (even though it was cheaper and had a better picture), instead I opted for a 45" Sharp LCD which I've been pretty happy with, except for really dark scenes.

BTW, does anyone game on the FHD1? Any setting recommendations or time limitations for that purpose? Also, how do you guys watch 4:3 content, particualry the people who say that i'm overreacting)? My kids watch alot of SD.
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post #209 of 2025 Old 12-24-2006, 11:30 AM
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Glad you're not seeing any further retention issues. Afraid I can't help with gaming recommendations - not a gamer.

As for 4x3 content, I don't watch that much of it on this set, but when I do, I normally use Zoom to stretch the program uniformly. Sorry I can't be of more help on that.

Enjoy your new set and have a very happy holiday.

John
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post #210 of 2025 Old 12-24-2006, 11:59 AM
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Give up on my trivia question......If you get a chancego to amazon "Trancers" and check out the "Trancers box set" 1-5...unless you are a "squid"
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