8G Pioneer plasmas - 80% lower black levels! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #451 of 5892 Old 01-12-2007, 07:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
reio-ta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry bud, but I'm his garbage man. I take my job seriously and only let trash get picked up by the proper people.
reio-ta is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #452 of 5892 Old 01-12-2007, 07:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BruZZi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,868
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Sorry bud, but I'm his garbage man. I take my job seriously and only let trash get picked up by the proper people.


That's not fair
BruZZi is offline  
post #453 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 01:09 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Stop making curved screens
Posts: 30,325
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Liked: 590
Absolutes.. endless trolling... "fanboys".... it's all pretty tiresome.

How dare I report this isn't the second coming of display technology?

Ironically enough, in the very same demo I caught was the man most singlehandedly responsible for the development of plasma televisions. I'm not going to speak for anyone, but I'd describe his reaction as not far from mine --> impressed, but not blown away. He spoke with some Pioneer engineering folk afterward and complimented the work on the black levels.

Some things are clear: Pioneer has made huge strides in that regard and has improved the display's handling of room light to some extent. Some other things are clear: People who saw the blacks as disappearing into the bezel are either (a) confused (b) had their irises and visual perception system skewed in such a way that illusion existed for them or (c) are touting some phenomenon that just wasn't there.

That said, I have no idea what people think their "black reference" is based on. You have never seen absolute black in a movie theater. You have never seen absolute black in a home theater unless it was a pitch black cave. And, no, friend, you have not seen it on your ol' CRT. In fact, few CRTs on the market outside of calibrated HT projectors have their black levels meaningfully lower than a Panasonic plasma. Yes, I mean direct view sets. The last of the Sony XBRs that were 4:3 were often shown with letterbox material so you could routinely see the black bars and the black frame. You could not -- with user controls -- blacken the letterbox bars and still maintain anything resembling a decent picture.

This doesn't even address the fact that these vaunted CRTs couldn't touch the ANSI contrast of a current DLP projector -- nor a model from 2 years ago. And yet all the demos that people rave about involve star fields or some such.

The parlor trick on all these "absolute black" demos is the presence of a brighter display and a darker one. Pioneer put such a display in the room for you. It did a wonderful job of providing you a glowing "black" that the other set -- quite naturally -- blew away. Sharp had a "million:1" contrast LCD demo in a pitch black room that employed the same trick. Oooh! Aaah! A glowing Sharp LCD that looked horrible next to the new tech (modulated LED backlight and the latest greatest filtering + whatever secret sauce might have been in there). It was a great demo -- of stars in deep space (and eventually some other images that still were impressive).

Now, one big difference is that Pioneer will be shipping something soon and Sharp won't be. But otherwise, it was the same basic demo.

Pioneer's ND filter design was a step forward. This technology is yet another step forward. And they sure convinced a lot of people a breakthrough was about to be witnessed. Do that and you've won 90% of the mental battle.

To me, this was an awful lot closer to evolutionary than revolutionary. And it took just a day or so before "infinite contrast" was replaced with "approximately 20,000:1". Calibrate it and give me 1/2 that in true sequential CR, give me 1000:1 ANSI CR, give me every last bit of shadow detail on the disk and I'm kinda done discussing contrast ratio. I want to point out that no flat panel on the market comes remotely close to those specs today. Perhaps Pioneer's new plasma will change that this coming winter.

We can hope.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
rogo is online now  
post #454 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 01:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
johnnybrulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Absolutes.. endless trolling... "fanboys".... it's all pretty tiresome.

How dare I report this isn't the second coming of display technology?

Ironically enough, in the very same demo I caught was the man most singlehandedly responsible for the development of plasma televisions. I'm not going to speak for anyone, but I'd describe his reaction as not far from mine --> impressed, but not blown away. He spoke with some Pioneer engineering folk afterward and complimented the work on the black levels.

Some things are clear: Pioneer has made huge strides in that regard and has improved the display's handling of room light to some extent. Some other things are clear: People who saw the blacks as disappearing into the bezel are either (a) confused (b) had their irises and visual perception system skewed in such a way that illusion existed for them or (c) are touting some phenomenon that just wasn't there.

That said, I have no idea what people think their "black reference" is based on. You have never seen absolute black in a movie theater. You have never seen absolute black in a home theater unless it was a pitch black cave. And, no, friend, you have not seen it on your ol' CRT. In fact, few CRTs on the market outside of calibrated HT projectors have their black levels meaningfully lower than a Panasonic plasma. Yes, I mean direct view sets. The last of the Sony XBRs that were 4:3 were often shown with letterbox material so you could routinely see the black bars and the black frame. You could not -- with user controls -- blacken the letterbox bars and still maintain anything resembling a decent picture.

This doesn't even address the fact that these vaunted CRTs couldn't touch the ANSI contrast of a current DLP projector -- nor a model from 2 years ago. And yet all the demos that people rave about involve star fields or some such.

The parlor trick on all these "absolute black" demos is the presence of a brighter display and a darker one. Pioneer put such a display in the room for you. It did a wonderful job of providing you a glowing "black" that the other set -- quite naturally -- blew away. Sharp had a "million:1" contrast LCD demo in a pitch black room that employed the same trick. Oooh! Aaah! A glowing Sharp LCD that looked horrible next to the new tech (modulated LED backlight and the latest greatest filtering + whatever secret sauce might have been in there). It was a great demo -- of stars in deep space (and eventually some other images that still were impressive).

Now, one big difference is that Pioneer will be shipping something soon and Sharp won't be. But otherwise, it was the same basic demo.

Pioneer's ND filter design was a step forward. This technology is yet another step forward. And they sure convinced a lot of people a breakthrough was about to be witnessed. Do that and you've won 90% of the mental battle.

To me, this was an awful lot closer to evolutionary than revolutionary. And it took just a day or so before "infinite contrast" was replaced with "approximately 20,000:1". Calibrate it and give me 1/2 that in true sequential CR, give me 1000:1 ANSI CR, give me every last bit of shadow detail on the disk and I'm kinda done discussing contrast ratio. I want to point out that no flat panel on the market comes remotely close to those specs today. Perhaps Pioneer's new plasma will change that this coming winter.

We can hope.

Very fair.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
johnnybrulez is offline  
post #455 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 01:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Johnla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

If that Sony Rep was doing as that guy said I think Sony needs to fire him. How could you be impressed with a car when you are building a spaceship

Yes, and it seems to be a very advanced one that they are building according to recent spy photos.....

Johnla is online now  
post #456 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 02:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
reio-ta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've been searching around trying to find specs for a reference CRT monitor. All I can find is ANSI is about 135:1 for 16x16 checker box and dynamic range is as high as 36,500:1(at 20,000:1 does that mean at best even if Pioneer is telling the truth, this plasma is still only half as good as a CRT, who cares about SED?). With peak brightness set at 35 Ftl.

What about other measurements? What is this 600 to 1,000 "true" CRT CR I always hear about? Also, I couldn't find a black level in Ftl for a reference CRT.

What are all the specs for a reference CRT? So I have a ballpark of what we're talking about to at least beat the best CRT, who cares about the SED which is pretty much vaporware. Our goal should be to beat the current king, not some fake king that doesn't even exist yet. Once we can do that, then thats something to talk about!
reio-ta is offline  
post #457 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 07:19 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 24,255
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1178 Post(s)
Liked: 1327
I think the takeaway here, by any account, is that this will be the flat out best plasma in terms of black levels and probably color. There may be some differing opinion as to how close this comes to CRT blacks or CR, but it's clear there is nothing on the market that's remotely close to what this new Pioneer can do. Yes, I'm coming to this conclusion from a compilation of all the many many comments I've read, but it's hard to believe that everyone is wrong.

Of course almost everyone raved about the Pioneer FHD1, and I was one of the few that was not nearly as impressed. So I can't wait to see if it lives up to all the comments I've read.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #458 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 07:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 15,424
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 195
Rogo,

Great post.
Should be on its own thread as a sticky.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
JimP is offline  
post #459 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 07:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
KLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
KLee is offline  
post #460 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 08:14 AM
 
wojtek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Posts: 2,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Rogo for a balanced post. Finally some sanity in this thread. The Pio accomplishment is even more impressive since this is apparently a 1080p plasma - they typically have poorer black levels than the 768p panels because of the finer rib structure and higher fill factor.

R Harkness - for the best pic I gotta go with Loewe, Sampo, Sony (the hi-rez one) - all CRT Direct Views.

But comparing them to plasmas is a little bit like comparing apples and oranges - if their screens were blown up to 50" I am sure I would see artifacts I haven't otherwise seen.
wojtek is offline  
post #461 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 08:27 AM
Member
 
kosh2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

There is no way any plasma comes close to SED technology. Again, SED is superior to plasma in everyway.

btw, did you read Rogo's comments?

Not in every way. There's one way plasma is superior. It's actually ON the market and available to mere mortals. SED can be likened to waiting for Godot.


A question for D-Nice, since he's billing himself as Deep Throat, is it fair to assume that since Pioneer is claiming 80% improvement in black level that the power consumption of these new panels drops some amount?
I'm reading that into the technology since the implication is that the cells aren't pre-charged to as high a level as current panels. The lower pre-charge resulting in the lower light output on a black screen.

Ted
kosh2258 is offline  
post #462 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 08:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gary cornell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Will Pioneer offer dealers a demo model sooner than this Summer with order taking to guarantee product delivery to must have right away early birds when product eventually ships.
gary cornell is offline  
post #463 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 08:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
greenland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdavis21484 View Post

In sales pitches, what is NOT said is more important than what IS said.

Likewise, when demoing a product, what is NOT presented can reveal weaknesses that the salesperson/company doesn't want shown.

For example, in Sharp's "1,000,000:1" Contrast Ratio LCD demo, the scenes shown are very slow pans, without much color (mostly space scenes with desolate moon and space shots). That shows that they don't want to reveal potential slow response time flaws and color fidelity flaws. If these weren't flaws, wouldn't they have shown vivid fast moving scenes with a lot of gradients in the blacks?

Based on that logic of paying attention to what ISN'T said more than what IS said, the reason I'm so excited about Pioneer's new display after seeing it in action is that I know what to look for, and was expecting the demo to show controlled, carefully selected items that would hide this new plasma's potential shortcomings.

Well, EVERYTHING was said. Scenes ranged from deep black scenes with significant shadow detail and vivid colors in another area to vivid colors across the spectrum. Fast action (a model throwing shiny confetti into the air) revealed no response time issues, even with radical black to white changes. Scenes with half-bright/half-dark images didn't cause blacks to float. In short, most every torture test a plasma could be expected to fail was presented - it passed with flying colors.

So unless I missed something, this is a technology ready for prime time. Now...what will it cost?

That sounds very promising, and at least you actually saw the demonstration. One thing that I am having trouble getting an answer to: Would some of you who actually attended the demonstrations please address how this Pio performed under lighted room conditions. That is one of the biggest complaints about Plasmas, and Pioneer has claim that this new panel holds up under lighted room conditions nearly as well as LCD. Did you see it under such conditions, and does it actually perform as well as Pioneer claimed?. No trolls please. Just observations from people who actually observed the demonstration. Thanks.

Edit to say: I am not asking people to comment on if daytime viewing of plasma is a big deal or not for them. I am asking for observations,from those who actually witnessed the recent CES demonstration, about how well this Pioneer performed in lighted room conditions compared to previous generations of Plama panels. Pioneer claims that it is a major improvement. If you didn't see the actual demonstration, kindly refrain from answering what I am asking about. Eyewitness observations only please. Thanks.
greenland is offline  
post #464 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 08:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gary cornell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Funny, i've had 4 plasmas over the last 7 yrs. and watching in a non-darkened room has never been an issue. For serious viewing like a new movie on dvd, i close the shade, otherwise i don't see this as a big deal.
gary cornell is offline  
post #465 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
madshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,477
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 132
FWIW, Amir just claimed in the Industry Insiders thread that the 2 Pioneer plasmas in that comparison demo were both 768p models!
madshi is offline  
post #466 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 10:14 AM
Senior Member
 
soloist3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I disagree with the statement that only the best HT Projectors have their black levels calibrated to a point that is significantly lower than Panasonic's black levels. My Fisher 26" CRT, from 1988, (great, almost unrecognized CRT btw, fine pitch invar shadow mask, etc..) consistantly looks better than my Panasonic Plasma, FAR better blacks, so much so that sometimes I prefer watching it, even though it is far smaller, just because the image is so much more enjoyable. I know that I probably crush the blacks a tiny bit (just because I like the way it enhances the richness of the color) but I can still watch movies like The Addams Family (which is basically a torture test for the Plasma), have almost "black hole" like blacks and still have every detail visible on screen.

The Addams Family was one of those movies that I had to run the brightness at +20 (on dark gamma mode) or +5 (on the light gamma setting) on the plasma just to make visible what was visible on the CRT. At either of those settings the picture looks pretty bad and of course any lower brightness makes the Plasma look like grey is swallowing up everything in dark scenes. It looks like Pioneer made a huge leap in black level performance, while some may disagree with me, it is, in my opinion, a much needed leap as digital display's at this point are still quite deficient in this area.
soloist3 is offline  
post #467 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 10:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks RH for that clarification on black levels, very well said..or SED.
I still am amazed by all these posters in here crying CRT tears of what was so great. Please...spare me that BS as there are VERY few CRT's that compare to a good plasma.
Not only is the size not comparable but comparing some interlaced POS to a progressive display is a joke in itself.

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #468 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Yes, and it seems to be a very advanced one that they are building according to recent spy photos.....


LOL....

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #469 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:23 AM
Senior Member
 
soloist3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Elemental1, it is not BS, it is MY opinion, I realize that it may not be your opinion but considering that I currently own a 9th Gen Panasonic and have owned a few other Plasma's in the past I feel that I can honestly say by my own comparison that I enjoy the PQ of my CRT's more than MY Plasma. Btw, I have owned large screen (29") presentation CRT monitors that could scan 1080p (actually 1536p) and I would still take a 1080i CRT over them, super fine pitch screens with small beam spot sizes do not have as high of contrast and usually have more phosphor lag. The fact that HD CRT's use Interlaced scanning have minor geometry issues are signifcantly heavier and have a smaller available screen size does not bother me as much as the black level issues of my current plasma. I have tried to pretend that it does not bother me for the last 4 months but I find that everytime I watch anything, except TV in broad daylight, I find that I am more concerned with getting the picture to not look so bad in dark scenes that I rarely ever really pay attention to what I am watching.

I do not see what the big deal is, I think CRT has better PQ you think Plasma, I do not think you or I are going to change each others opinions. In addition I bet you and I could find an equal number of educated people that could advocate for each side. Ultimately the only people that will be able to change my opinion are the people at Pioneer and Panasonic with thier continuing advancements in plasma technology. Looking at the new Pioneer's I may be changing my mind really soon as the new tech, at least from reviews, sounds amazing and believe me I am just looking for a reason to get rid of my CRT's.
soloist3 is offline  
post #470 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by soloist3 View Post

Elemental1, it is not BS, it is MY opinion, I realize that it may not be your opinion but considering that I currently own a 9th Gen Panasonic and have owned a few other Plasma's in the past I feel that I can honestly say by my own comparison that I enjoy the PQ of my CRT's more than MY Plasma.

Then let's just say I question your judgement on PQ.
I am sure you like what you like but I am just saying it sounds strange to me.
No harm, no foul.

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #471 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:43 AM
 
wojtek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Posts: 2,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Major studios use CRTs as their reference displays.
wojtek is offline  
post #472 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojtek View Post

Major studios use CRTs as their reference displays.

Your point is ?
I did put 'there are VERY few CRT's that compare to a good plasma' in my post.
How much do those cost, btw?

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #473 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
johnnybrulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by soloist3 View Post

Elemental1, it is not BS, it is MY opinion, I realize that it may not be your opinion but considering that I currently own a 9th Gen Panasonic and have owned a few other Plasma's in the past I feel that I can honestly say by my own comparison that I enjoy the PQ of my CRT's more than MY Plasma. Btw, I have owned large screen (29") presentation CRT monitors that could scan 1080p (actually 1536p) and I would still take a 1080i CRT over them, super fine pitch screens with small beam spot sizes do not have as high of contrast and usually have more phosphor lag. The fact that HD CRT's use Interlaced scanning have minor geometry issues are signifcantly heavier and have a smaller available screen size does not bother me as much as the black level issues of my current plasma. I have tried to pretend that it does not bother me for the last 4 months but I find that everytime I watch anything, except TV in broad daylight, I find that I am more concerned with getting the picture to not look so bad in dark scenes that I rarely ever really pay attention to what I am watching.

I do not see what the big deal is, I think CRT has better PQ you think Plasma, I do not think you or I are going to change each others opinions. In addition I bet you and I could find an equal number of educated people that could advocate for each side. Ultimately the only people that will be able to change my opinion are the people at Pioneer and Panasonic with thier continuing advancements in plasma technology. Looking at the new Pioneer's I may be changing my mind really soon as the new tech, at least from reviews, sounds amazing and believe me I am just looking for a reason to get rid of my CRT's.


Different goals. If you treasure a great black, then no digital display will top your CRT.

Alot of people here will take the blacks and shadow detail of a plasma, while adding slim/flat form factor, keep all the other bonuses (progressive, more detail, perfect gemeotry, a more 3-D picture i.e.), and have a more theaterical experience.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
johnnybrulez is offline  
post #474 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Different goals. If you treasure a great black, then no digital display will top your CRT.

Alot of people here will take the blacks and shadow detail of a plasma, while adding slim/flat form factor, keep all the other bonuses (progressive, more detail), and have a more theaterical experience.

I agree with that but if the black levels were not acceptable, I would have an issue also.

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #475 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
johnnybrulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

I agree with that but if the black levels were not acceptable, I would have an issue also.

Yes, to alot of people, including me, these black levels on the current plasmas are more than okay. A couple of years ago, I'd find it unacceptable to watch any digital display.

CRT black is the next target!

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
johnnybrulez is offline  
post #476 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 11:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

CRT black is the next target!

Yes, what a treat it will be as this gets better.

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #477 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 12:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
greenland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Different goals. If you treasure a great black, then no digital display will top your CRT.

Alot of people here will take the blacks and shadow detail of a plasma, while adding slim/flat form factor, keep all the other bonuses (progressive, more detail, perfect gemeotry, a more 3-D picture i.e.), and have a more theaterical experience.

I love CRT, and I love Plasma, but don't get me started on how much I hate Broccoli. There, are we all happy now, and can we get back to the subject of this thread; now let me see what was it about, oh yeah, the new eight generation Pioneer Plasma at this year's CES.
greenland is offline  
post #478 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 12:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

I love CRT, and I love Plasma, but don't get me started on how much I hate Broccoli. There, are we all happy now, and can we get back to the subject of this thread; now let me see what was it about, oh yeah, the new eight generation Pioneer Plasma at this year's CES.

Gee...it's also about black levels.
Too much Guinness, Greenland?

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #479 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 12:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
greenland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

Gee...it's also about black levels.
Too much Guinness, Greenland?

Silly chap: There is no such thing as too much Guinness, just too little drinking time. As that Grand Auld Irishman, Oscar Wilde, put it so well: "Work is the curse of the drinking class".
greenland is offline  
post #480 of 5892 Old 01-13-2007, 12:25 PM
VFR
AVS Special Member
 
VFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,027
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Had not seen this mentioned.



http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ces2007/0106pioneer/


"While the 1080i HD images looked great on the 50" models, it was the 480i on the 42" models that was staggering. Pioneer's latest video processing ASIC completely eliminated deinterlacing artifacts, and even produced a perfect result on one of the most torturous of the video torture tests from Silicon Optix' HQV Benchmark DVD."
VFR is offline  
Closed Thread Plasma Flat Panel Displays

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off