Question on plasma power consumption - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
unionmade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi all,
I've got a quesiton for folks about the impact that their plasma screens have had on the monthly power bill.
I moved into a new home in December, and bought my first plasma at the same time, a Panny TH-50PH9UK. I'm also running a Marantz SR7001 AVR for my sound (5.1 system from OrbAudio). Since moving in my electric bills have been twice what they were at my old place, and the plasma is the only "new" thing we didn't have at the old place. When I called the electric company the rep suggested that the plasma is the culprit.
I don't have any way of knowing how more the electric bill is with the plasma, as I don't know what the bills were before I moved in. So, my question to folks is what impact did adding a plasma HT to your home have on the electric bill? I'm averaging 1000 KWH per month, almost twice what I was averaging at my old place. Thanks for any input.
Bryan
unionmade is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 07:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Uh....how about your heating/cooling system? Don't you think that would be the problem?

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #3 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 07:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
amesdp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Your setup (TV + receiver) is probably using an average of about 300 watts, depending a little on how you have it adjusted. If you use it for around 30 hours per week, you would be using less than 40 KWH per month. As usual the electric company rep knows less than nothing.

Elemental1 is probably right: only electric heating or cooling could explain that much energy use.
amesdp is offline  
post #4 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 07:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WilliamR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 170
I use my plasma extensively, all day on the weekends, 6 - 7 a night weekdays. Power bill went up maybe a few dollars a month. Hard to tell because I also run my receiver witth TV which I didn't do before so that adds more electricity.

WilliamR is online now  
post #5 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 07:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

Elemental1 is probably right: only electric heating or cooling could explain that much energy use.

I just found it amusing why he would look at a plasma first....unless he moved the heating/cooling system which he is implying.
Maybe his new electric co is really pricey.

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #6 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 08:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
Frost147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Maybe a "sticky" should be made of this never-ending urban myth of excess power consumption being one of the banes of HDTV - regardless of technology used. This will be the 5th time I've responded to one of these threads in the past 2 months, so here goes: Nothing. Nada. Rien. Zip. Sweet F++K All.

I've been through several hydro billing periods and there HAS BEEN NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE IN MY BILL!! What HAS INCREASED is my TV watching. Big time.

Who keeps propagating this myth? Malcontented CRT luddites?

Ottawa Ontario Canada
Frost147 is offline  
post #7 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 08:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elemental1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zion
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost147 View Post

Who keeps propagating this myth? Malcontented CRT luddites?

Oh, don't kid yourself...it's the LCD boys!

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
Elemental1 is offline  
post #8 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 08:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
afiggatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 4,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Plasma TVs do not use that much power. People react to the power consumption spec on the spec sheet or the back, but that is the MAXIMUM power consumption of the plasma at peak brightness. The power consumption varies dynamically with the brightness of screen with peak power for all white scenes. But since most of us have the brightness level set to somewhere around half, the TV is not going to hit the peak power consumption on the label. For example, my Panasonic TH-42PH7UY varies between 90 and around 220-230 Watts in power, but averages around 140 Watts (measured several times over a 4 hour period). The maximum power on the spec sheet for my model is 357 Watts.

In normal use, the power consumption of the plasma runs somewhere around 40 to 50% of the maximum power on the spec sheet. The TH-50PH9UK has a max spec power of 460 Watts, so you are probably running around ~ 190 Watts when it is on. Even if you left on 8 hours a day, that is 1.5 kWH a day or 45 kWH a month. Switching four 75 Watt incandescent bulbs with four CFLs will make up the difference and likely will more than way make up the difference between the TH-50PDH9UK and whatever TV you had before.

The myth of high power consumption for plasmas goes back to the early generation models that were indeed major power hogs and generated a lot of heat. Some 3 or 4 generations back, Panasonic and Pioneer made major strides in reducing the power consumption of plasmas so they are no longer the hogs they once were.

My Motorola HD-DVR consumes more power over the course of a month than my Panasonic 42" plasma. The DVR is always on, even when it is "off", running around 42 Watts when it is off (although I do need to measure this for my newer Verizon Fios Motorola 6412 DVR). That works out to around 1 kWH a day.

I agree with the other posts. You are in a new place with a different heating & cooling system. Do you have gas heat or a heat pump? Electric or gas water heater? More square footage or less efficient home? Did you move your refrigerator or use the one that came with the house? If the new place came with an older fridge, that could be one source of increased power consumption. Refrigerators have made major strides over the past 10 to 20 years in reducing power consumption and improving efficiency to the point where it may be worthwhile replacing that 20 year fridge in the basement with a new basic unit. Replacing burned out incandescent bulbs with CFLs is the easiest way and has the fastest return in reducing your lighting costs.

There is a very handy device called the Kill-A-Watt which measures power consumption of any plug-in device. Very useful to measure the power consumption of your fridge, DVR, TV, receiver, computer, the countless wall warts that we accumulate like barnacles these days. A google search for "Kill-A-Watt" will turn up a bunch of on-line dealers.
afiggatt is offline  
post #9 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 08:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
dirtydan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Afiggatt, I have done extensive Kill-A-Watt tests and my HP 42" draws an average of 160, and my Dish Dvr 49-52 watts, and like your Dvr it is on all the time no matter if it is turned on or off (stand-by).
dirtydan is offline  
post #10 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 09:14 AM
Senior Member
 
SteveK123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I actually think my electric bill went down from what my little 24 in CRT sony was using. I would agree with elemental its the heating cooling in the new place. what about applliances are they electric instead of gas? where the old ones in the old place gas and now perhaps you have electric?
SteveK123 is offline  
post #11 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 09:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Marky_Mark896's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Outside Bowling Green, Ohio
Posts: 2,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
He forgot to mention he went from an 800sqft apt to a 3500 sqft house

And moved from North Carolina to Northern Michigan

It's not just a hobby, it's an obsession...
Marky_Mark896 is offline  
post #12 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 09:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bailey151's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:


He forgot to mention he went from an 800sqft apt to a 3500 sqft house

LMAO

Quote:


When I called the electric company the rep suggested that the plasma is the culprit.

What else would he say? "we just doubled our rates so we could ream you a new one"?

Really there are so many factors - sqft of the building, type of heating/cooling, insulation, new power company..............................................

It's just my opinion & it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
Bailey151 is offline  
post #13 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 09:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Marky_Mark896's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Outside Bowling Green, Ohio
Posts: 2,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Maybe the neighbors have an illegal tap on your power line (those bastards) .

It's not just a hobby, it's an obsession...
Marky_Mark896 is offline  
post #14 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
unionmade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks everyone for confirming that the plasma isn't the culprit.

Without belaboring the discussion (and by stating up front that I figured I'd get flamed a bit), my new place is 100 sf larger than my old (1,600 v. 1,500), and the move was to the next town. I'm in New England, and the heat is gas, so there's no heat issue involved. I'll now look elsewhere to figure out what gives.

I think I will let the electric company know that I don't appreciate their customer service misinformation, and I'll check out whether NStar has any ownership interests in LCD companies.

Bryan
unionmade is offline  
post #15 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 10:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Marky_Mark896's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Outside Bowling Green, Ohio
Posts: 2,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Are you using the same refrigerator as you had in the last house?

It's not just a hobby, it's an obsession...
Marky_Mark896 is offline  
post #16 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 12:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
tomanystraydogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Since Plasma looks better in low lighting one could argue it saves electricity during nightly viewing

Samsung Plasma TV FAQ - read it, learn it, live it.
tomanystraydogs is offline  
post #17 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 12:12 PM
Senior Member
 
SteveK123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky_Mark896 View Post

Are you using the same refrigerator as you had in the last house?


thats a good one too what appliances are different.
SteveK123 is offline  
post #18 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 12:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
dirtydan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomanystraydogs View Post

Since Plasma looks better in low lighting one could argue it saves electricity during nightly viewing

Right on! Nobody has mentioned that LCDs draw a constant wattage which is near their rated wattage figure.
dirtydan is offline  
post #19 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 12:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Marky_Mark896's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Outside Bowling Green, Ohio
Posts: 2,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just know that refrigerator and freezers are about 1/3 of your electric bill normally.

It's not just a hobby, it's an obsession...
Marky_Mark896 is offline  
post #20 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 12:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bailey151's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:


Without belaboring the discussion (and by stating up front that I figured I'd get flamed a bit),

Nah, folks are just joshing with ya.......and flaming the power company guy for BS'ing.

Appliances, what about water heater (I assume gas), washer, dryer, etc. You say the heat is gas..........but what type? Forced air? Blower may be far less efficient, less insulation = it's running more often.......

Just pointing out there are a myraid of things that can add up. The power company may have information about the average cost/month for homes in your area - it may be more than your old neighborhood (higher rates etc)

It's just my opinion & it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
Bailey151 is offline  
post #21 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
unionmade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky_Mark896 View Post

I just know that refrigerator and freezers are about 1/3 of your electric bill normally.

Thanks Mark, The refridgerator is actually a newer model and replaces an older model at the last house, but I'll check out it's energy usage just to be sure.
unionmade is offline  
post #22 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 12:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Marky_Mark896's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Outside Bowling Green, Ohio
Posts: 2,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Are you leaving more lights on at this house outside? Did you have a baby (which increases laundry, lights for late night feedings, makes you read your bill wrong because you're so damn tired )

It's not just a hobby, it's an obsession...
Marky_Mark896 is offline  
post #23 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 02:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
indept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Deptford,Nj.
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 57
here is my reply to a similar question in another thread, the first part is meant as humor but the rest IS fact.

Originally Posted by Princeismyname
Do plasmas run that hot? I hear they do. I hope its not going to burn my face sitting in front of it is it lol.



Try placing an unpopped bag of popcorn directly in front of a plasma, in 5 min you have hot popcorn. The higher end units come with a grill attachment so you can use the heat from the screen to cook while you're watching your favorite show <<< this is a picture of 2 chinese guys cooking an egg in frot of their plasma

Seriously, they do give off some heat which varies with the pictures brightness, but not much different than an LCD panel. Go to BB or CC and feel the front of the plasmas & LCDs, they both get warm. DLPs don't because the thing generating most of the heat is the bulb which is inside the unit an fan cooled. I've checked my 50" plasma with a wattmeter & it varies from 200 - just under 400 (it's rated @ 408 watts) based on the brightness of the picture. The more white, the higher the power usage. I researched that before I bought my plasma, typical ratings for plasmas were: 42" = ~ 300 watts, 50" ~ 400 watts. LCDs were: 42" ~200w, 50" ~ 300 - 350w, so there's not much difference, in fact a plasma may use less power than similar sized LCDs when viewing darker pictures because an LCD spends a lot of it's power on the backlight which is always on full bore and the blacks are made by each lcd pixel blocking the light.

Then I Added:

OK, here's the scoop:

I put my wattmeter on my plasma tonight. After 4 hours of viewing which consisted of about 1 hour of news & 3 hours of a hockey game I averaged about 330 watts. It registered 1.3 KW hours for that 4 hours which at our rate of about 14 cents / KWH = a whopping 18.2 cents of cold hard cash to power my 50 in plasma (I'm applying for a home equity loan as we speak ). Keep in mind that 3 of the 4 hours watching the hockey game had a mostly white screen (the ice), which for a plasma's power consumption, is the highest power consumption scenario. So at my present time watching tv of 100 hours / week = .33kw x $0.14 x 100 hrs = $18.48 / month with a worst case scenario since I don't watch white screen hockey 100% of the time. I can live with that considering the pleasure I get from watching the awesome HD picture. Also, I tend to use my grill attachment I mentioned in this thread earlier to cook while watching hockey <<<---These are the 2 chinese guys that cooked the egg on their plasma grill that I told you about in that post

Bottom line, It's NOT your plasma
indept is offline  
post #24 of 57 Old 04-05-2007, 04:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BruZZi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,868
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky_Mark896 View Post

He forgot to mention he went from an 800sqft apt to a 3500 sqft house
And moved from North Carolina to Northern Michigan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky_Mark896 View Post

Maybe the neighbors have an illegal tap on your power line (those bastards) .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky_Mark896 View Post

Are you leaving more lights on at this house outside? Did you have a baby (which increases laundry, lights for late night feedings, makes you read your bill wrong because you're so damn tired )


BruZZi is offline  
post #25 of 57 Old 04-06-2007, 03:50 AM
Senior Member
 
MOtvGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The amount of heat an electrical device emits is in direct proportion to the amount of power the device is using. Plasma TV's emit alot of heat hence, they use a lot of power.

That said, it's impossible to determine what's causing the increase in your power bill since you have no baseline at your current address to measure from. I doubt it's the Plasma though.
MOtvGuy is offline  
post #26 of 57 Old 04-06-2007, 07:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
amesdp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOtvGuy View Post

The amount of heat an electrical device emits is in direct proportion to the amount of power the device is using.

In fact it is exactly the same, since all the energy consumed by the TV ends up as heat in your home.

Quote:


Plasma TV's emit alot of heat hence, they use a lot of power.

Wrong and wrong. That's pure myth. My plasma TV runs much cooler than my old CRT, and the power consumption numbers don't lie.
amesdp is offline  
post #27 of 57 Old 04-06-2007, 11:47 AM
Senior Member
 
SteveK123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

In fact it is exactly the same, since all the energy consumed by the TV ends up as heat in your home.



Wrong and wrong. That's pure myth. My plasma TV runs much cooler than my old CRT, and the power consumption numbers don't lie.


mine too.
SteveK123 is offline  
post #28 of 57 Old 04-06-2007, 03:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SaltiDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOtvGuy View Post

... Plasma TV's emit alot of heat hence, they use a lot of power.
...

Would that be the 4th Law of Effect and Cause?
SaltiDawg is offline  
post #29 of 57 Old 04-07-2007, 04:39 AM
Senior Member
 
MOtvGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltiDawg View Post

Would that be the 4th Law of Effect and Cause?

Nope. 1st law of consumer electronic devices.

Measure the total mass of all heat sink devices on a typical plasma TV set on these boards. Realize heat sinks are used to dissipate heat from electronic devices to prevent them from suffering thermal overload.

Y Sustain board
Power supply
X Sustain board

Now, take Watts law of

P = I * V

A typical Plasma panel drive circuit operates at only 200 - 300volts Vs necessary to provide the potential to light the panel but the current level is very high.

A typical DV set will run at 30,000KV at the CRT anode but the current is minimal.

I've been jolted quite a few times in 32 years of working on TV's by CRT high voltage and I can tell you, I'd rather get "bit" by that 30kv on a crt than accidently get a jolt from the Vs voltage running a plasma panel. There's far more current potential there, the kind that can kill you.

Furthermore

A typical Direct view TV set of around 36" has only half the mass of heat sink devices that a typical 42" plasma set has. Even if a 42" DV set was used as a test comparison (if one was available), the heat sink area would barely increase. It would still be far less than any 42" plasma.

But getting back on topic, a Plasma set would not cause any significant increase in electrical usage unless the owner was actually watching more TV because of owning said Plasma TV.
MOtvGuy is offline  
post #30 of 57 Old 04-07-2007, 09:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
indept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Deptford,Nj.
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOtvGuy View Post

The amount of heat an electrical device emits is in direct proportion to the amount of power the device is using. Plasma TV's emit alot of heat hence, they use a lot of power.
.

Thats not entirely true. It depends on how efficient. If your tv was 100 % efficient it would put out light but no heat, 100% of the power would be emmited as light. The same with a light bulb, if it's 100% efficient (which of course nothing, with the exception of congress , is) it wouldn't get hot at all therfore if a bulb is 75% efficient then 75% of the power goes to producing light, 25% or 25watts would be given off as heat. I'm sure you're aware of this MOtvGuy, but this was for the benefit of non techs here.
indept is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off