Switched from HDMI to Component ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Purchased a new PS3 last week and connected it Saturday and the blue-ray is absolutely stunning. The PS3 and my upscaling DVD player must be connected via HDMI and I have them connected to a 2x1 switcher because I only have 1 hdmi connection on my Panasonic PDP. Previously, I had the cable box and upscaling DVD player connect to the 2x1 switcher to the PDP.

So, I switch the cable box (SA 8300HD DVR) to component cables and I notice that the colors are more vivid. I've seen talk on these boards indicating that there is not much of a difference in picture between the two connections and hdmi gets the nod because the picture seems more "life-like". Could the difference in picture on my PDP be because of the newness of hdmi, handshake issue or the cablebox or both?

I did notice that when the cable tech was installing my HDTV that he connected my PDP using component and programmed my settings a little darker than what I have them now, with hdmi.

Cable Tech Settings using component:
Picture Mode: Cinema
Picture: +11
Brightness: +15
Color: +5
Tint: +2
Sharpness: +12
Color Temp: Warm

I found it odd that the cable tech had the Picture Mode to Cinema and Color Temp at Warm. Could this be because component is more vivid?

Presently, my settings with HDMI:
Picture Mode: Standard
Picture: +22
Brightness: +8
Color: -1
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -14
Color Temperature: Warm
Enhanced Black Level: Off

I've kept the settings above even though I switched back to component but I think I am going to drop it down a little. Thoughts or Suggestions? Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 10:32 AM
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In my experiences I have found that I can get better PQ from component than with HDMI. I know, I know.... doesnt make sense or does it? HDMI is all digital which lots of users seem to clamor about..... but just being digital doesnt guarantee anything.

Check around, you'll find plenty of Component supporters that PREFER their component connections over HDMI and all the hype.

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post #3 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I never thought there would be that much difference but I'm a believer now!! It could be the cables or the source?
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post #4 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post

....So, I switch the cable box (SA 8300HD DVR) to component cables and I notice that the colors are more vivid. I've seen talk on these boards indicating that there is not much of a difference in picture between the two connections and hdmi gets the nod because the picture seems more "life-like". Could the difference in picture on my PDP be because of the newness of hdmi, handshake issue or the cablebox or both?

The general consensus on various forums is that HDMI is a little sharper than Component but color is not quite as good, and that Component gives a little better color but is not as crisp. This holds true on my SA8300HD and my Tivo Series 3 on both my 42PX50U Plasma and my 26" HP LCD TV, with or without my 2x2 HDMI switcher/splitter. It also holds true on my GF's 32" Polaroid LCD TV w/SA8300HD, and a few other friends HDTVs with various HD STBs. The difference is slight, but noticeable.

Some people see no difference, but most people that have posted about it do.

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post #5 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 12:02 PM
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its pretty much the same with me.
i have a cable and dvd player on a crappy old konka lcd with only 1 hdmi. i dont have a swithc, so i play with it manually, but i do notice that when i plug in the component the colors get VERY VERY saturated and somewhat blurry, so i do need to dial down the color/brighness and dial up the sharpness.

i like HDMI for the convenience.. one cable to rule them all.
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post #6 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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How do I correct over saturation? Decrease "Picture" and increase "Sharpness"?
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post #7 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post

How do I correct over saturation? Decrease "Picture" and increase "Sharpness"?

No, color saturation is controlled by the "Color" setting on your Panny. The "Picture" setting controls the white level (how bright the whitest white is).

The "-1" setting for "Color" that you are using from that plasma_tv_buying_guide article is way high for my tastes. Find a good HD signal with a closeup of somebody's face, and dial down the Color one notch at a time until the skin textures look realistic. You'll probably find that something more like -5 or -6 is better.

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post #8 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post


Cable Tech Settings using component:
Picture Mode: Cinema
Picture: +11
Brightness: +15
Color: +5
Tint: +2
Sharpness: +12
Color Temp: Warm

With the above settings no wonder Component is more vivid.
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post #9 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

With the above settings no wonder Component is more vivid.

Do you think that's why he used the Cinema Picture Mode and Warm Color Temp?

No, those are the settings used by the cable technician when he connected my HDTV. After he left, I connected the PDP via HDMI and used the following settings for my 50U:

Picture Mode: Standard
Picture: +22
Brightness: +8
Color: -1
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -14
Color Temperature: Warm
Enhanced Black Level: Off

Actually, the above settings are being used with component. I have not changed the settings but plan on recalibrating tonight.
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post #10 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

No, color saturation is controlled by the "Color" setting on your Panny. The "Picture" setting controls the white level (how bright the whitest white is).

The "-1" setting for "Color" that you are using from that plasma_tv_buying_guide article is way high for my tastes. Find a good HD signal with a closeup of somebody's face, and dial down the Color one notch at a time until the skin textures look realistic. You'll probably find that something more like -5 or -6 is better.

Thanks for the info., I plan on recalibrating tonight.
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post #11 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 12:48 PM
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mbroadus, I'm confused...


Can you post the settings for the Component you think it's more vivid and the settings from the HDMI you think it's not too vivid please??


Cinema, Standard & Dynamic are just pre-set settings. If you use the same settings for the three modes, the picture will look the same.
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post #12 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

mbroadus, I'm confused...


Can you post the settings for the Component you think it's more vivid and the settings from the HDMI you think it's not too vivid please??


Cinema, Normal & Dynamic are just pre-set settings. If you use the same settings for the three modes, the picture will look the same.

I apologize for not being clear.

The below settings I have used for the past year, since being connected via HDMI. I'm still using these settings because I have not had a chance re-calibrate after switching to component cables. Plan on doing that tonight.

Picture Mode: Standard
Picture: +22
Brightness: +8
Color: -1
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -14
Color Temperature: Warm
Enhanced Black Level: Off

The last time I had my PDP connected via component, I used the settings below, done by the HDTV technician:

Picture Mode: Cinema
Picture: +11
Brightness: +15
Color: +5
Tint: +2
Sharpness: +12
Color Temp: Warm

You think both are too high?
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post #13 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post

I apologize for not being clear.

The below settings I have used for the past year, since being connected via HDMI. I'm still using these settings because I have not had a chance re-calibrate after switching to component cables. Plan on doing that tonight.

Picture Mode: Standard
Picture: +22
Brightness: +8
Color: -1
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -14
Color Temperature: Warm
Enhanced Black Level: Off

The last time I had my PDP connected via component, I used the settings below, done by the HDTV technician:

Picture Mode: Cinema
Picture: +11
Brightness: +15
Color: +5
Tint: +2
Sharpness: +12
Color Temp: Warm

You think both are too high?


Are you SURE you are using that first set of setting on component? The Panny remembers settings by input, so if you had it set to "Cinema" on component, switched to HDMI and calibrated "Standard"..... and then one year later switched back to component, without changing anything, you would in fact be back to your original settings (Cinema) from component.

Double-check in the Picture menu that you are, actually, on Standard.

In general, most people think that your settings (the +22/+8/-1/-4/-14 from the article) are too high in the "Picture" and "Color" areas specifically. Most people have "Picture" somewhere in the teens (+12 to +18, usually), and "Color" several ticks to the negative (between -4 and -9). The other settings (Brightness, Tint, and Sharpness) are fine.

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post #14 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post

The PS3 and my upscaling DVD player must be connected via HDMI and I have them connected to a 2x1 switcher because I only have 1 hdmi connection on my Panasonic PDP. Previously, I had the cable box and upscaling DVD player connect to the 2x1 switcher to the PDP.

What model Panny do you have? If you only have one HDMI, I'm assuming it's an older model (not 60/600u)?

If so, those settings you are using from the ptvbuyingguide article aren't meant for your TV anyway.

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post #15 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

Cinema, Standard & Dynamic are just pre-set settings. If you use the same settings for the three modes, the picture will look the same.

The man who authored the FAQ making a mistake!!

Not sure what model he has, but for the 60/600u series that is most definitely NOT true. Cinema/Standard/Vivid will not look the same at the same settings.

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post #16 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Are you SURE you are using that first set of setting on component? The Panny remembers settings by input, so if you had it set to "Cinema" on component, switched to HDMI and calibrated "Standard"..... and then one year later switched back to component, without changing anything, you would in fact be back to your original settings (Cinema) from component.

Double-check in the Picture menu that you are, actually, on Standard.

In general, most people think that your settings (the +22/+8/-1/-4/-14 from the article) are too high in the "Picture" and "Color" areas specifically. Most people have "Picture" somewhere in the teens (+12 to +18, usually), and "Color" several ticks to the negative (between -4 and -9). The other settings (Brightness, Tint, and Sharpness) are fine.

It's obvious that I need to learn more about my PDP, is this info in the manual? I don't recall reading anything about it.

I guess I have work to do tonight.
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post #17 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What model Panny do you have? If you only have one HDMI, I'm assuming it's an older model (not 60/600u)?

If so, those settings you are using from the ptvbuyingguide article aren't meant for your TV anyway.

I have the PX50U and I was using the settings from the plasma buying guide for the 600U: Plasma Buying Guide Review

The 50U settings look a little hot: Panny 42PX50U

Picture Mode: Vivid
Picture: +10
Brightness: +5
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -5
Color Temp: Normal

For some reason, plasma buying guide is not allowed in the URL.
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post #18 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post

It's obvious that I need to learn more about my PDP, is this info in the manual? I don't recall reading anything about it.

I guess I have work to do tonight.

Well, the point is that different inputs (i.e. DVD player, cable-box, PS3, etc.) will not have identical pictures, so need to be calibrated differently. Some TV's offer true independent settings for each input, but the Panny offers you three different picture settings (Vivid/Dynamic, Standard, and Cinema) which have factory pre-sets but can be tuned individually.

Now, your Plasma will remember which of the three picture settings you have assigned to a particular input. So, for example (this is what I do), you could tune your "Standard" setting for watching TV through the cable box over HDMI, tune your "Cinema" setting for watching DVD's through component, and tune your "Vivid" setting for playing video games over the other component input.

So, you've got "Standard" on HDMI, "Cinema" on Component 1, and "Vivid" on Component 2. If you buy, say, a new upscaling DVD player that has an HDMI connection, and you switch the DVD player to HDMI and the cable box to Component 1, the TV doesn't know that you've switched it! So, your DVD player will be on "Standard" and the cable box will be on "Cinema", which is the reverse of what you originally intended, because the TV memorizes settings BY INPUT.

So, again, check your Picture menu and make sure you are on "Standard" when watching via the cable box. You are probably actually still using the old setting your cable tech set up for you, since you switched the cable box over to component.

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post #19 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The man who authored the FAQ making a mistake!!

We all make mistakes.

Quote:


Not sure what model he has, but for the 60/600u series that is most definitely NOT true. Cinema/Standard/Vivid will not look the same at the same settings.

I read it too fast. I thought he was talking about a Commercial Model (Since he mentioned only one HDMI input). Now that I re-read his post, he must have an older Consumer Model (50/500) because of the "Enhanced Black Level: Off". The Commercial Displays have a "Black Extention" instead. Also the "Vivid" mode is called "Dynamic" on the Commercial Plasmas.

And yes, the Cinema/Standard/Vivid will not look the same on the Consumer Models (with the same settings) since you can't adjust few settings (like gamma). And Contrast must be definitively higher on the "Vivid" mode.
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post #20 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

We all make mistakes.

Just poking a little fun the info you've assembled in your FAQ is unbelievably helpful, so thanks for all your efforts!

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post #21 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Well, the point is that different inputs (i.e. DVD player, cable-box, PS3, etc.) will not have identical pictures, so need to be calibrated differently. Some TV's offer true independent settings for each input, but the Panny offers you three different picture settings (Vivid/Dynamic, Standard, and Cinema) which have factory pre-sets but can be tuned individually.

Now, your Plasma will remember which of the three picture settings you have assigned to a particular input. So, for example (this is what I do), you could tune your "Standard" setting for watching TV through the cable box over HDMI, tune your "Cinema" setting for watching DVD's through component, and tune your "Vivid" setting for playing video games over the other component input.

So, you've got "Standard" on HDMI, "Cinema" on Component 1, and "Vivid" on Component 2. If you buy, say, a new upscaling DVD player that has an HDMI connection, and you switch the DVD player to HDMI and the cable box to Component 1, the TV doesn't know that you've switched it! So, your DVD player will be on "Standard" and the cable box will be on "Cinema", which is the reverse of what you originally intended, because the TV memorizes settings BY INPUT.

So, again, check your Picture menu and make sure you are on "Standard" when watching via the cable box. You are probably actually still using the old setting your cable tech set up for you, since you switched the cable box over to component.

OK, I think I get it.

Presently, I have my SA 8300HD DVR cable on component 1, the PDP will remember the settings for that input once I calibrate? So, for arguments sake, if I have the settings on Component 1 at:

Picture Mode: Cinema
Picture: +11
Brightness: +15
Color: +5
Tint: +2
Sharpness: +12
Color Temp: Warm

Every time I choose to watch cable tv, the PDP will adjust to those settings?

I have my upscaling DVD player and PS3 connected via HDMI and when I switch to them, and "HDMI or DVD" is shown in the little box on the upper left, the settings I have chosen for the HDMI input will automatically switch from the Component settings to the HDMI settings?

Thanks so much for help!!!
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post #22 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 03:45 PM
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Right, it remembers picture setting by input.

So, as another example:

You watch the 8300HD on Component 1, and have that set to "Standard". You have the PS3/DVD on HDMI, and have that set to "Cinema". When you switch the TV input to "Component 1" to watch tv, it will always go back to Standard. When you switch to PS3/DVD, it will automatically go back to Cinema.

You don't have to have them set differently -- you could use "Standard" on both if you think it looks better. But, if you use "Standard" on both, you can't calibrate them separately. For example, let's say you have both the HDMI and Component inputs set to "Standard". if you are watching a DVD and decide it's too dark and pump up the "Picture" setting from +15 to +20, when you switch back to the Component input to watch TV, the Picture will still be at +20.

So, in other words, if you want to calibrate different inputs separately, you have to make sure to set them to a different "setting" (Cinema/Standard/Vivid) and not just tweak the numbers. The Panny allows you three different picture settings, and then "remembers" which one of the three is set to which input.

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post #23 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Right, it remembers picture setting by input.

So, as another example:

You watch the 8300HD on Component 1, and have that set to "Standard". You have the PS3/DVD on HDMI, and have that set to "Cinema". When you switch the TV input to "Component 1" to watch tv, it will always go back to Standard. When you switch to PS3/DVD, it will automatically go back to Cinema.

You don't have to have them set differently -- you could use "Standard" on both if you think it looks better. But, if you use "Standard" on both, you can't calibrate them separately. For example, let's say you have both the HDMI and Component inputs set to "Standard". if you are watching a DVD and decide it's too dark and pump up the "Picture" setting from +15 to +20, when you switch back to the Component input to watch TV, the Picture will still be at +20.

So, in other words, if you want to calibrate different inputs separately, you have to make sure to set them to a different "setting" (Cinema/Standard/Vivid) and not just tweak the numbers. The Panny allows you three different picture settings, and then "remembers" which one of the three is set to which input.

Pig, that's a great summation and I really appreciate it. I learned a great deal today.
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post #24 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post

So, I switch the cable box (SA 8300HD DVR) to component cables and I notice that the colors are more vivid. I've seen talk on these boards indicating that there is not much of a difference in picture between the two connections and hdmi gets the nod because the picture seems more "life-like". Could the difference in picture on my PDP be because of the newness of hdmi, handshake issue or the cablebox or both?

I find the opposite. I much prefer the Motorola 6412 via component as compared to HDMI. The HDMI picture seems to saturated and over sharpened. The component looks much more life-like and natural. I have a Panasonic pd50u.

I am guessing that personal preference probably comes into play.
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post #25 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I've calibrated using avia and this is what I've come up with so far. I've calibrated twice and came up with 2 different settings. Although similar, the biggest difference is sharpness.

Component 1: SA 8300 HD DVR

1st Calibration
Pic Mode: Standard
Picture: +16
Brightness: +10
Color: -3
Tint: -4
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Normal

2nd Calibration
Pic Mode: Standard
Picture: +15
Brightness: +8
Color: -6
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -14
Color Temp: Normal

Thoughts/suggestions?
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post #26 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 07:20 PM
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"So, I switch the cable box (SA 8300HD DVR) to component cables and I notice that the colors are more vivid."

That means one thing and one thing only: The component path (either on the source or the TV set) has a color boost. The HDMI (digital) path consisting of 1's and 0's has to be unity, by definition. So if colors are more "vivid" it only means you have a boost somewhere in the analog path. No magic here. If you prefer that "look" all you have to do is increase the chroma (color) on your set.

"Information is only as good as the accuracy of the source"
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post #27 of 33 Old 04-16-2007, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F. Palacio View Post

"So, I switch the cable box (SA 8300HD DVR) to component cables and I notice that the colors are more vivid."

That means one thing and one thing only: The component path (either on the source or the TV set) has a color boost. The HDMI (digital) path consisting of 1's and 0's has to be unity, by definition. So if colors are more "vivid" it only means you have a boost somewhere in the analog path. No magic here. If you prefer that "look" all you have to do is increase the chroma (color) on your set.

I think it had more to do with the fact that I didn't understand that the PDP would switch to another picture setting because I changed from HDMI to Component. The Component settings were set higher than the HDMI settings. I really didn't prefer that "looK", I just didn't understand what was happening.
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post #28 of 33 Old 04-17-2007, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post

I think it had more to do with the fact that I didn't understand that the PDP would switch to another picture setting because I changed from HDMI to Component. The Component settings were set higher than the HDMI settings. I really didn't prefer that "looK", I just didn't understand what was happening.

OK That explains it, then. Re: "look" I was confused when you used the term "more vivid". Usually that implies better. So I thought you preferred it.

"Information is only as good as the accuracy of the source"
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post #29 of 33 Old 04-17-2007, 11:09 AM
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i'm going to go out on a limb here and take a whild guess at this.

could it be a colorspace issue?

possibly hdmi syncing incorrectly with your STB with HDMI?

"the one who has the most fun wins."
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post #30 of 33 Old 04-17-2007, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by John F. Palacio View Post

OK That explains it, then. Re: "look" I was confused when you used the term "more vivid". Usually that implies better. So I thought you preferred it.

I'm new to PDP terminology and learning "on the fly". I should have said "more colorful" or "color saturated". After calibrating last night, I really can't tell the difference between the inputs. The advantage of component is that there is no "handshake" issue.
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