The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BMX2500 View Post

[IMG][/IMG]


Bmx looks like the pictures are a litte dark, black crush, this could be from your camera a little bit but still a little dark imo.. Also colors are looking a litte to high i would turn them down some, but this is personal preferance, i modified this pic just for comparison but go with what you like.
LL
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post #632 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

... Hello! Hello! Is this mike on!?!?

in other words, see my last post, greenland.

-----------


yes, 23 watts in standby does seem crazy, as does 371W and 315W for that matter.

I suspect that since these panels are brighter, in addition to their lower black level capabilities, the higher peak wattage reflects the higher brightness spec, which would require more power at peak for all-white screen images. But in actual use, the lower black levels (and associated lower pre-charge, or whatever it's called) will balance things out, helping the panels to realize a much lower wattage number on average.

Again, I'll wait for the meter boys to do some real world measuring.

Well it is starting to look like I may have to spend my Fistful of Dollars on something that is less of an energy hog. I am installing solar panels, and I am trying to stay off the grid as much as possible. These plasma power consumption figures are startling. If I am to own one of them, I will have to find two suns to charge the solar panels, or construct my own personal nuclear power plant.

....
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post #633 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Bmx looks like the pictures are a litte dark, black crush, this could be from your camera a little bit but still a little dark imo.. Also colors are looking a litte to high i would turn them down some, but this is personal preferance, i modified this pic just for comparison but go with what you like.

The color level does seem rather high except for the fact that color is set to 0. I personally would drop the color level a bit if i knew for sure it would not upset the break-in period.
D-nice, DOES lower color level affect the break-in period?
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post #634 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 10:01 PM
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why not wind power, greenland? you generate plenty of that on your own.





Don't sweat the power figures yet, people. LCDs expend nearly the same in equal sizes. Some other existing panel techs though.. well, they typicaly consume a lot less. rear projection, etc., dwarf lcd and plasma actual watt usage #'s.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #635 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMX2500 View Post

The color level does seem rather high except for the fact that color is set to 0. I personally would drop the color level a bit if i knew for sure it would not upset the break-in period.
D-nice, DOES lower color level affect the break-in period?

You can turn it up and down. Just make sure when you're 'breaking in' to keep those settings on for any critical viewing. Besides, color level 'down' isn't dangerous. It's color level 'up' that is allegedly the culprit.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #636 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

I hate those little.. rainbow line effects ya get when you photograph these TVs. I had the same problem with my 5070.


I'm more saddened by the black crush I'm starting to have doubts about the 8g not being black crush prone.
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post #637 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 10:29 PM
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Its done. I ordered the 5080 from Roman at Invision!!

I can't wait! My first HDTV!! Thanks Roman!
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post #638 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 10:37 PM
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these tv's dont have black crush, if you turn off all the contrast enhancers and turn gamma up to 2 or 3. I played with the one at bb today for a hour and got it to display
every single small shadow detail, but I had to turn off all the enhancers to do so, which imo degrade the image anyway.
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post #639 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I'm more saddened by the black crush I'm starting to have doubts about the 8g not being black crush prone.

I'm sorry to hear Zues. But uh, why not wait until you can go to a store to go see it yourself, and better yet! Get a remote and then you can toy with the black crush. I assure you that's a way better test than looking at pictures on here. If you're not happy with a live feed with your eyes stuck on the screen... then don't buy the Pioneer 5080. Easy as pie.

But I do ask why do people shop for a TV by looking at static pictures given by the internet? I'll never understand this... really. I enjoy peaking through galleries for fun. But in terms of it influencing what TVs I want to see?

I'll rate that influence a big fat 0 percent.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #640 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

I'm sorry to hear Zues. But uh, why not wait until you can go to a store to go see it yourself, and better yet! Get a remote and then you can toy with the black crush. I assure you that's a way better test than looking at pictures on here. If you're not happy with a live feed with your eyes stuck on the screen... then don't buy the Pioneer 5080. Easy as pie.

But I do ask why do people shop for a TV by looking at static pictures given by the internet? I'll never understand this... really. I enjoy peaking through galleries for fun. But in terms of it influencing what TVs I want to see?

I'll rate that influence a big fat 0 percent.

You make a valid point. Even the best display, Plasma or LCD, would not look half way decent if not for some proper and well adjusted tweaking. The purpose for posting pictures on the internet is give a vague, and I do mean vague "impression" of what the actual display looks like. I have tried adjusting the gamma levels and the shadow detail comes in. As of now, I am trying to adhere to break in settings to prolong the enjoyment of my plasma.
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post #641 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I'm more saddened by the black crush I'm starting to have doubts about the 8g not being black crush prone.

Photos of TVs will crush the blacks. The higher contrast the display is, the harder it is to capture all the subtle details in bright and dark areas all at once due to the camera's limited dynamic range.
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post #642 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

Photos of TVs will crush the blacks.


Yea i know but it's also possible to capture screenshots without black crush. And my program that i modify pictures with usally fixes that right up but mostly "adding" blacks makes most digital screenshots look better. Mtx's pictures i could not modify to bring out the details, if there are any... Also this very same debate has gone on in the other 8g thread when the 8g was side by side with a 7g. I wont comment on this anymore until i see one with dvd's and remote in hand
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post #643 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Yea i know but it's also possible to capture screenshots without black crush. And my program that i modify pictures with usally fixes that right up but mostly "adding" blacks makes most digital screenshots look better. Mtx's pictures i could not modify to bring out the details, if there are any... Also this very same debate has gone on in the other 8g thread when the 8g was side by side with a 7g. I wont comment on this anymore until i see one with dvd's and remote in hand

Good call.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #644 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 11:07 PM
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If the 5080 is anything like the Elite 1140, the tuneability of the VGA port is very limited compared to component. As I had my set ISF callibrated, it became clear that the picture quality on component out weighed the extra resolution gained by using VGA. I no longer use VGA. This was for viewing HD-DVD, DVD, and streaming of HD files from my media center PC.

Russ

Quote:
Originally Posted by bak_phy View Post

I was thinking of getting the VGA cable for the xbox. Any reason to believe that it would be significantly better than the component?

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post #645 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Yea i know but it's also possible to capture screenshots without black crush.

Only by crushing the whites if the display is capable of displaying a high contrast image - there's no way a camera could capture the full range of this display, and crushing blacks looks much better in a photograph than blowing out the highlights.

Here's an example I took off the CRT monitor I'm using right now. (didn't turn out quite as well as I had hoped)


Both photos were exposed as brightly as possible without blowing out the highlights. The one on the left is my calibrated settings, which gives very deep blacks, but retains most of the shadow detail. (about 2% and up) As you can see from the photo, there's no detail there whatsoever - it's just pure black, and those blocks go up to 6% grey.

In the second shot, I just turned the brightness control right up, turning the blacks grey, but the lower contrast allowed the camera to capture most of the shadow detail. (3% and up - though it's not as visible as I had hoped as taking photos of CRTs is a lot harder than flat-panels)

Photos of these TVs with their high contrast ratios will have to either blow out the highlights, crush the shadow details, or both. The better the camera, the more dynamic range it should be able to capture, but I doubt anything will be able to capture it all.
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post #646 of 17587 Old 06-20-2007, 11:23 PM
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I helped my friend setup their 5080 the other day and noticed there was only 1 component connector, not a big deal, but I was surprised. 4 HDMI is great, kinda disappointed only 1 component.
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post #647 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

There are only 2 sources that will give you an almost true "1920x1080" source signal.....HD DVD and BD. Anything else you can only pray you get 1400 lines of resolution.

Wrong. Don't limit your view to USA, only!!
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post #648 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 06:04 AM
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The 4280 has two components...did you look on the side of the unit?
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post #649 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 06:31 AM
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I just got my 4280 yesterday and DAMN is it nice! The black levels truly are awesome! And the "Smooth" film mode is amazing...watching some of my favorite movies, I had no idea how sleeker and smoother the action looked in this mode.

BIG thanks to Roman@Invision for this set and all his help. Much appreciated, man!

However, I do have a few questions...

1. During the break-in period, I know that you should avoid watching movies that have bars on either the sides or the top/bottom, but what about AFTER the break-in period? Is it safe, then, to view movies in 2:4:1 without worry of getting IR or worse, burn-in? (I've only watched 1 movie so far....the rest of the time, I've been playing the break-in DVD)

2. What functions of the set protect against IR and Burn-in? And will those help in the above situation?

Thanks for any help!
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post #650 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

Only by crushing the whites if the display is capable of displaying a high contrast image - there's no way a camera could capture the full range of this display, and crushing blacks looks much better in a photograph than blowing out the highlights.

Here's an example I took off the CRT monitor I'm using right now. (didn't turn out quite as well as I had hoped)
[mg]http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa90/andrewfee/DSCF5098.jpg[/img] [mg]http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa90/andrewfee/DSCF5099.jpg[/img]

Both photos were exposed as brightly as possible without blowing out the highlights. The one on the left is my calibrated settings, which gives very deep blacks, but retains most of the shadow detail. (about 2% and up) As you can see from the photo, there's no detail there whatsoever - it's just pure black, and those blocks go up to 6% grey.

In the second shot, I just turned the brightness control right up, turning the blacks grey, but the lower contrast allowed the camera to capture most of the shadow detail. (3% and up - though it's not as visible as I had hoped as taking photos of CRTs is a lot harder than flat-panels)

Photos of these TVs with their high contrast ratios will have to either blow out the highlights, crush the shadow details, or both. The better the camera, the more dynamic range it should be able to capture, but I doubt anything will be able to capture it all.

Excellent post andrew! I was about to start typing something similar but you stole my thunder!

it is very VERY hard to capture the correct patterns with a camera, and only by extending the 75-100 IRE levels (crushing whites) can one start to capture the real details on camera as shown in your pics.

very good post.
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post #651 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 07:14 AM
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ya know, you really can't judge PQ and determine black crush by photos. My initial disclaimer was that my camera can NOT acurately display real world conditions. And so it can not capture true details. On the other hand, some cameras capture TOO much detail, i.e. photos of Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton and Britney Spears in cars.
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post #652 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 07:52 AM
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BMX-
My SD doesn't look as good as your pictures.
(Then again- my apartment building has split the cable feed so many times- I'm lucky I have an image)
Is FIOS that much better than digital cable?
I am considering a DVDO- but the VP50 cost more than I spent on the TV.
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post #653 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 08:36 AM
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bokes

Don't expect a video processor to fix a bad signal, that's not what they're for.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #654 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMX2500 View Post

ya know, you really can't judge PQ and determine black crush by photos. My initial disclaimer was that my camera can NOT acurately display real world conditions. And so it can not capture true details. On the other hand, some cameras capture TOO much detail, i.e. photos of Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton and Britney Spears in cars.

Yes indeed. Those photos showed too much of de-tail.

....
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post #655 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 08:46 AM
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On a different subject, the rapid approach of July means the Elite 768 will be released.
Will any of our AVS sponsors be selling these units?
Or will we be directed to a B & M store?
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post #656 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMX2500 View Post

CruelInventions, greenland, the power consumption from the manual states as follows:
PDP-5080HD
120 V AC 60hz, 371 W (23 W Standby)

PDP-4280
120 V AC 60 hz, 315 W (23 W Standby)

D-Nice.

Could you find out why the units require to use 23W. on standby. That seems like a very high amount. Is there any chance that it is a misprint in the Manual. What would it require so much standby power for?. Thanks.

....
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post #657 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

D-Nice.

Could you find out why the units require to use 23W. on standby. That seems like a very high amount. Is there any chance that it is a misprint in the Manual. What would it require so much standby power for?. Thanks.

....

If you are worried about a puny 23 W then you might want to reconsider a plasma costing thousands of dollars.

Seriously, the reason for the higher standby wattage is because of the CableCard and/or the Onscreen program guide.

A 50" Panasonic standby condition is similar: 0.6 W (with CableCARD: 22.0 W)
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post #658 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

D-Nice.

Could you find out why the units require to use 23W. on standby. That seems like a very high amount. Is there any chance that it is a misprint in the Manual. What would it require so much standby power for?. Thanks.

....

Cable card slot and TVGOS
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post #659 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Wrong. Don't limit your view to USA, only!!

Almost everything I do is based on the NTSC and USA spec. The EU is totally different as you guys have MPEG4 broadcasts. However, if the signal starts with Mpeg2 at the source, the same 1400 lines of resolution applies.

Here is an interesting convo in the Calibration forum....start reading at post #32:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7&page=1&pp=60
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post #660 of 17587 Old 06-21-2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMX2500 View Post

The color level does seem rather high except for the fact that color is set to 0. I personally would drop the color level a bit if i knew for sure it would not upset the break-in period.
D-nice, DOES lower color level affect the break-in period?

If you are not using the break-in DVD for the first 150 hours, you are not truly doing break-in. You can just use whatever permanent settings you select to use.
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