The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread - Page 298 - AVS Forum
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post #8911 of 17585 Old 11-05-2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russwong View Post

Yes, that is correct, that is the same with the 7Gs and 8Gs. The TV is not an AVR and I don't think any TV functions that way.

Russ

Well, my Sharp LCD allowed me to output PCM (stereo) input from my PS3
via my toslink no problem. I'm quite disappointed that the $7K Pioneer doesn't
at least do that. Sigh.
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post #8912 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnsvg View Post

I'm now close to 200 hours and picture is Fantastic. No audible buzz, stuck/dead pixels, or black splotches. Had friends over to watch NFL this weekend. The general conscensus was ribs and beer were great but the Pro-150 was even greater! I've gotten a few PM's about my setup so FWIW here is some info that I hope is helpful. I ran a dedicated 15amp circuit to HT setup. Used speaker wire (Belden 12 gauge white)from bluejean and optical/hdmi from monoprice. I used this light (http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID=1...scent+Fixtures) for bias lighting. It was to bright and I removed the lens and sprayed 3 coats of paint over about 20% to dim it down. In hindsight I would have bought the 10.25 inch (model USL6W/64k) instead. My stand is 24" tall and puts my eyes about 1-2"'s below center of screen. Speaker stands are Sanus NF36c that I got at vanns.com. I'm a DIY type of person and would be happy to answer any ?'s anyone might have.
John S.

John, NICE setup, thanks for sharing. Question on the bias lighting - do you think the 10.25 inch model will produce the correct amount of light without having to apply a few coats of paint? Did you put the cover back on after painting?

Ken
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post #8913 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 05:08 AM
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I just purchased an A35 HD DVD player. How can I confirm that my 6010 is receiving a 1080P/24 signal from the player? I know I'm missing something obvious here.
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post #8914 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67bernie View Post

Yesterday I had Mike Chen do the ISF calibration on my month old Pioneer 150FD. He mentioned he has calibrated about 2500 tvs in the last few years, from Los Angeles to Maine, and from Vancouver to Quebec. He is very, very, VERY good. He calibrated the "Pure Mode" on the 150 to the true colour standards, so I can zip back and forth to the "standard mode" whenever I want to and compare. I am fully confident the Pure Mode on my 150FD now represents the very best and truest colours and colour balance the Kuro is capable of, and that is saying a lot...

Comments? If I brought over 100 different friends to watch the Indianapolis vrs. New England NFL game this afternoon, I'm confident fully 95% or more would not choose the properly ISF calibrated mode, but would choose the "Standard" mode to watch the game in. While the ISF calibrated mode is clearly much more accurate in terms of colours, balance between dark and light, etc., to a "rookie viewer" it won't look as good. Specifically the reds and blues are less vibrant, the whites are not as bright and the greens more muted. It would be to a "rookie viewer" as if a slight yellow film was put over the screen, causing the colours to be more muted, less vibrant. The closest analogy would be going into a big box tv store when you know nothing about tvs, and looking at a plasma vrs. a LCD tv. The LCD will win at first in most cases as it looks more vibrant and alive to most novice viewers.

An intermediate viewer with some research behind them (I count myself among this group) would probably still prefer the "standard mode" vrs. the calibrated mode, but it would probably be 70-30. An experienced viewer with a lot of background in plasmas would probably pick the ISF calibrated mode 95% of the time over the "standard mode". An analogy might be wine tasting. A great bottle of wine often might be rejected by a rookie taster in favor of a lot less expensive wine, but the "wine expert" would very rarely choose an inexpensive bottle over an expensive bottle in terms of taste preference.

MONEY is the reason all manufacturers, including Pioneer, do not calibrate their tvs out of the box to fully accurate colours. The human eye actually prefers in most cases not the true colours, but rather "enhanced" colours. So to get very white whites, they crank up the blue on the sets in "standard mode" or out of the box. This causes human flesh to look sickly in colour, so they crank up the red to compensate. Bottom line? Say you had one Kuro set up and ISF calibrated in a perfect room in a big box store, in a row with 19 identical Kuros on "Standard Mode" with the too heavy blues to make the whites pop and the enhanced reds to compensate for sick skin colours. The VAST majority of folks walking into the room would say "Awesome picture quality on all those Kuros, but whats wrong with that one?", meaning the ISF calibrated tv. Quite simply any manufacurers that would dare to set their tvs to fully true colour ISF standards would not sell nearly as many tvs. Since they want to sell tvs first and formost, the sets are all set to what the marketing department has decided will sell the most tvs to the most people. And that my friends is NOT ISF calibration.

While this is old news to many I'm sure, to me it was illuminating. I'm personally glad I got my Kuro ISF calibrated, but its a taste that I need to "grow into" and I think most folks will feel the same way unless they are pretty advanced in terms of true colour on tvs. So in a nutshell, unless you are pretty advanced in my opinion on colour, etc. an ISF calibration will NOT make you go "wow, incredible, way, way better than before!!" If you are like me, you will say "that's interesting, I think I will have to grow into it". If you are a "rookie viewer" you will almost certainly prefer a non-ISF version of your Kuro. In my humble opinion ISF calibration is an acquired taste, much like wine.

Lastly the human eye gets used to different colours almost instantly. When I look at the large spruce tree in my backyard, it looks the "right colour" and "normal" to my eye at high noon on a sunny day, on a cloudy day, and in low light conditions of sunset and sunrise with more "reds" in the sunlight. So my advice is adjust the tv to what looks best to you, but if you are a curious sort like me, get the tv ISF calibrated on one mode for a reference and see if you can "grow into liking the ISF calibrated picture best". Maybe I will, maybe I won't, but I'm very glad I have the option with the Kuro sets...

Excellent points. Nevertheless, I do think that the source material has an effect on the preference: football is not presented with an emphasis on subtle hues and shadow detail; it does better with a setting that emphasizes colour vibrancy, exciting contrast and brightness, in order to catch all the action against a relatively unchanging background so one can see that pigskin flying down the field. I haven't done any comparisons with rookies, but I wonder what the preference would be for films with numerous dark scenes and muted colours such as "The Pianist," "Master and Commander," "War of the Worlds," etc?

P.S. I have a Pro 110FD and love it...does Mike Chen ever get to London Ontario?
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post #8915 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf57 View Post

Excellent points. Nevertheless, I do think that the source material has an effect on the preference: football is not presented with an emphasis on subtle hues and shadow detail; it does better with a setting that emphasizes colour vibrancy, exciting contrast and brightness, in order to catch all the action against a relatively unchanging background so one can see that pigskin flying down the field. I haven't done any comparisons with rookies, but I wonder what the preference would be for films with numerous dark scenes and muted colours such as "The Pianist," "Master and Commander," "War of the Worlds," etc?

P.S. I have a Pro 110FD and love it...does Mike Chen ever get to London Ontario?

I had Mike Chen over here too and he's great. Damn can that man talk!!

Anyhow, I suggest getting it ISF'd for the same reasons pointed out by 67bernie.
I'm actually in the same boat as 67bernie, but I've learned to appreciate just how
much the proper colours affect the mood and atmosphere of movies and such.
Periodically I even use the ISF'd pure mode for videogames and it's really neat.
I do prefer gaming with vibrant colours and such, but I gotta say, it's very nice
to have the option of switching over.

Incidentaly, Mike mentioned the ISFccc software hopefully will be ready soon,
but he doesn't expect to return to the GTA until Feb. You can e-mail him to
find out. Here's a website to reach him (he's the top contact on the page):

http://www.keohi.com/KeohiHDTV/isf/isf_calibrators.html

Good luck.
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post #8916 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 06:53 AM
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Many thanks Nambit! I am definitely getting my 110 ISFccc'd...have about 400 hours breakin' and love it: I found it hard to believe how good it looked on a film like "War of the Worlds" with D-Nice's settings for pure mode...though I did use CS1 and I know it's not optimized for my specific set and sources.
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post #8917 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf57 View Post

Many thanks Nambit! I am definitely getting my 110 ISFccc'd...have about 400 hours breakin' and love it: I found it hard to believe how good it looked on a film like "War of the Worlds" with D-Nice's settings for pure mode...though I did use CS1 and I know it's not optimized for my specific set and sources.

No problem!

Try this: Watch Star Wars with D-Nice's settings (use CS2!!!) and then watch
the same movie (or scene) with CS1. It's akin to the difference between
the movies Alien and Aliens. CS2 has that classic SCI-FI element and feels
less CG and more real.

(PS - You'll be glad you went elite)
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post #8918 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 07:30 AM
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Ken,
I think you would not have to paint the 10.25" light. The light I bought was 3.25 inches longer. Yes I did put the lens (plastic bulb cover) back on after spray painting. If you do want to reduce light amount just take lens off and cover most of it with blue painters tape and spray paint uncovered section. I used flat black paint and did small sections at a time till I came out w/what I was happy with.

Good luck John
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post #8919 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Lobrow View Post

I just purchased an A35 HD DVD player. How can I confirm that my 6010 is receiving a 1080P/24 signal from the player? I know I'm missing something obvious here.

Press the remote's display size button and the pop up window indicates the interface, there are a couple other buttons that will do this too. On the A35 remote press the display button and the pop up will indicate what its sending. Hopefully they match......

PDP-6010FD, VSX1123K, HW-150PVR, Snell E111 Mains, Polk Center, VTF3Mk4 Sub, DIY surrounds, HD XA2, DMR HS2, DV F27, HR21-200, TH-50PH9UK, VSP-1100, PSW200... some other stuff.
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post #8920 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

No problem!

Try this: Watch Star Wars with D-Nice's settings (use CS2!!!) and then watch
the same movie (or scene) with CS1. It's akin to the difference between
the movies Alien and Aliens. CS2 has that classic SCI-FI element and feels
less CG and more real.

(PS - You'll be glad you went elite)

Cool! I'll give it a try...and yes, I am already glad I went with the Elite.
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post #8921 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 09:14 AM
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it's probably been posted here already but i do not have time to make sure. i figure if it has then skip it but if not then great, here is a review from http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasma...07piokuro6010/ of the 6010FD. they pretty much say this tv sets the standard and surpasses the tests that count the most. they also say only the best 1080p fp can give you this kind of impact. seems like i made a wise choice myself by spending a few hundred more on the 5010FD.

Pioneer 5010FD, Sony 60A3000, Panny 42PZ85U, Yamaha RX-V3800, Denon 4308, B&W 600's, HSU VTF-3 MK3, Def. Tech. bp7004, 2002, 1.2x, 2x, TivoHD, Samsung 1200, harmony 1000, ps3, xbox360, Sony BDP S350
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post #8922 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUTCH vanATL View Post

White glove delivery (unload, unbox, bring it in the house, setup and turn on to be sure it works, sign off on the delivery) cost me an extra $150 over and above standard delivery (sign off on the delivery before unloading it at the curb, which is about 300 ft up a very steep hill from my house). While there may not have been any white gloves used for the extra service, it was well worth the extra price.

I bought the 150FD & $150 "White Glove Delivery" from VE. Robert & Wendy are very nice, the shipping was less so. The shipper rescheduled the date, and late afternoon delivery was really 8:00 pm. The "White Glove" service that was printed on the shipping paper was just that, only on the shipping paper. The (as in one) delivery guy showed up all by himself. I had to help him bring the set inside. As far as him helping put it on the stand and removing the rubbish - no way. The driver did help me take the old 37" CRT out to my van, I gave him $20, I was happy to get it over with.

I know it has been mentioned before but it kind of crappy that the 150FD will not pass the HDMI signal out through it's optical digital out. I was hoping to input all of the HDMI into the TV, and use the optical digital out to the AVR for sound. I'm gonna give Monoprice's 4x2 switch a try.
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post #8923 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67bernie View Post

Yesterday I had Mike Chen do the ISF calibration on my month old Pioneer 150FD.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the owner's list that is linked at the bottom of my post. I used Mike Chen's AVS name (Michael TLV) to make it easier for others to locate him.
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post #8924 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

I had Mike Chen over here too and he's great.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the owner's list that is linked at the bottom of my post. I used Mike Chen's AVS name (Michael TLV) to make it easier for others to locate him.
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post #8925 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 10:38 AM
 
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[quote=kuroholic;12143438]I bought the 150FD & $150 "White Glove Delivery" from VE. Robert & Wendy are very nice, the shipping was less so. The shipper rescheduled the date, and late afternoon delivery was really 8:00 pm. The "White Glove" service that was printed on the shipping paper was just that, only on the shipping paper. The (as in one) delivery guy showed up all by himself. I had to help him bring the set inside. As far as him helping put it on the stand and removing the rubbish - no way. The driver did help me take the old 37" CRT out to my van, I gave him $20, I was happy to get it over with.
QUOTE]

The bottom line is I used to love to offer this service but unless you have an amazing shipping company (which are hard to find) you have to stay with it the whole time. Meaning even if you put on the order to the company "white glove" does not mean it will get done. You have to call and double check or double check with the dispatcher when they call to setup delivery. Believe it or not but some companies seem to think you can do "white glove" with one man It is a great service to offer but it has to be tracked very closely.
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post #8926 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 10:45 AM
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Today most White Glove delivery's refer to a Proctologist Exam.

Nothing's Perfect So Stop Expecting It ! Glenee

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post #8927 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 11:18 AM
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what's the point of white glove delivery? extra careful?

Primary: Sony BRAVIA KDL-46NX720 / Pioneer VSX-LX53 / Marantz NA7004 / Quadral Platinum M4 / Fat PS3

 

Secondary: Pioneer KURO PDP-LX608D / Pioneer VSX-LX70 / Pioneer BDP-LX55 / KEF KHT-3005 / Thomson DSI-4000NTV

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post #8928 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 11:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gubarenko View Post

what's the point of white glove delivery? extra careful?

2 MAN instead of usual one man and they are supposed to help you with it.
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post #8929 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clau View Post

What you're missing is the ability to have Input A be the cable connection so that you can get all the digital cable channels, including HD's without any set-top box, while at the same time be able to receive OTA digital broadcasts via Input B.

If you don't have cable, or always use an external set-top box for cable, then it is not a big deal for you. I just think that since they spent the effort to put in a nice QAM tuner with CableCard capaibility, they would want you to use that, and at the same time, be able to connect an OTA antenna signal to receive terrestrial digital broadcasts.

Every other TV with dual inputs lets you receive digital cable on one, and OTA digital on the other.

Isn't QAM tuner required to get the digital and HD stuff from cable without a set top box? Furthermore, wouldn't some sort of guide be necessary so you can make sense of the lineup on the off chance your cable provider decides to plop everything as subchannels of channel 84?

Seems to me that Pio intends for us to use cable card if we don't want a set top box while using ANT A for OTA.
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post #8930 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by antidata27 View Post

Isn't QAM tuner required to get the digital and HD stuff from cable without a set top box? Furthermore, wouldn't some sort of guide be necessary so you can make sense of the lineup on the off chance your cable provider decides to plop everything as subchannels of channel 84?

Seems to me that Pio intends for us to use cable card if we don't want a set top box while using ANT A for OTA.

Not sure what question you are asking. Input A has a QAM tuner with CableCard support. Ant B can only receive analog channels (cable or OTA).

CLau
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post #8931 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clau View Post

Not sure what question you are asking. Input A has a QAM tuner with CableCard support. Ant B can only receive analog channels (cable or OTA).

Nothing. I saw ATSC in the website's 150FD specs. A look in the manual reveals the QAM stuff. I thought they were separate.
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post #8932 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

No problem!

Try this: Watch Star Wars with D-Nice's settings (use CS2!!!) and then watch
the same movie (or scene) with CS1. It's akin to the difference between
the movies Alien and Aliens. CS2 has that classic SCI-FI element and feels
less CG and more real.

(PS - You'll be glad you went elite)

Nambit, keep in mind that when switching Color Space, you must use different settings. If all one does is switch from CS2 to CS1, it won't look right at all.
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post #8933 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post

Press the remote's display size button and the pop up window indicates the interface, there are a couple other buttons that will do this too. On the A35 remote press the display button and the pop up will indicate what its sending. Hopefully they match......

Should the display on the Pio show 1080p24 or just 1080p? My toshiba A30 is showing 1080p24Hz output, but my 6010 is showing 1080p.
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post #8934 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 06:32 PM
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CHG,

Quote:
Should the display on the Pio show 1080p24 or just 1080p? My toshiba A30 is showing 1080p24Hz output, but my 6010 is showing 1080p.

The way I was able to tell was to go into you 6010 menu and tell it you have a PC hooked up and then check the display on the TV. When I did this I was able to see the 24Hz in the display. Of course you would then change back to the correct setting. Good Luck.
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post #8935 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basheer View Post

I believe that it is at least 3.5" away from the wall...but I have spoken to quite a few people and the key concern is making sure that there is a clear path for airflow from below to above the plasma as heat rises.

So I'm not to concerned about having the plasma less than 1" away from the wall.

Basheer

Wonder if warranty may be voided?

dv
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post #8936 of 17585 Old 11-06-2007, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gubarenko View Post

what's the point of white glove delivery? extra careful?

lubrication eh Glenee

dv
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post #8937 of 17585 Old 11-07-2007, 12:31 AM
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An interesting data point for you guys with my 150fd. I finally received my Integra 9.8 pre/pro with the Reon processor including the firmware fixing the colorspace issue. I watched "Fracture" on standard DVD on my Oppo 980H outputting 480i over HDMI. Several times throughout watching the movie I switched between "through" letting the TV scale from 480i to 1080p internally and "1080p" having the Reon scale to 1080p and output that to the TV and all times I found the picture better in "through" mode bypassing the Reon. The picture was noticeably softer with the Reon scaling and the picture had much better fine detail running 480i direct to the TV. I have never had any complaints with the DVD quality when playing direct to the Pio, but we're always looking to get that picture as close as Blu-Ray quality. Unfortunately, at least for my setup the Reon seems to be going in the wrong direction. I'll obviously do more experimenting, but so far it looks like i'll be enjoying the audio processing section of the 9.8 and bypassing the Reon. Anyone else have similar or different experiences with Reon scalers?
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post #8938 of 17585 Old 11-07-2007, 02:39 AM
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just wondering whats the pixel pitch on the 1080p kuro/kuro elite,

5010 ?
6010 ?
110 ?
150 ?
FHD1 ?
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post #8939 of 17585 Old 11-07-2007, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Nambit, keep in mind that when switching Color Space, you must use different settings. If all one does is switch from CS2 to CS1, it won't look right at all.

That's what my other modes are for.
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post #8940 of 17585 Old 11-07-2007, 09:54 AM
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Quick question for all you owners:

Can the 5010 be lowered down on the stand when the speaker is removed?
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