The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread - Page 320 - AVS Forum
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post #9571 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Can you see all of the detail in most if not all of your HD programming?

Do you know if it was set for dark room viewing? Or does it not matter? If it does, do you simply add a little brightness during the day and then turn it back to a "normal" setting at night?

How does the overall brightness look?

Yes, set for viewing in the dark as he calibrated during the day but I covered all windows with blankets to get it dark in the house. I don't know how people on here use the higher brightness though. If I set brightness at 0, +1 etc at night even with a plasma backlight on it burns my eyes out of their sockets. I have brightness at -3 and contrast at 25 and it's plenty in a dark room and the outdoor scenes don't kill my eyes. It introduces a SMALL amount of black crush but gives the picture that "inky" look to the black as opposed to the washed out look I see when turning up brightness any higher.

As far as the day, I turn up brightness to probably -2 to compensate. Otherwise, it looks great to me after having had my previous two plasmas calibrated as well.

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post #9572 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j554u2 View Post

Greetings All!,
My first entry... Just bought the KURO 4280 and looking for some guidance on initial set up and connection options.

1. Will I need to calibrate professionally to get best picture?

2. Only able to use component level hook up at the moment. Will I be able to see 720P level HD?

3. Best DVD match up with the KURO using straight feed component hook up?
Looking at Elite DV-46, OPPO 830.

Thanks!!!

I recently calibrated a 4280, and yes it is necessary for a better picture both the low and high end of the grayscale needed adjustment. You may want to consider a HD-DVD player to upscale SD-DVD and to play HD-DVD.... component or HDMI....

720p or 1080i via component is a solid signal, no problem. you can use either one because the image needs to be scaled to 768p in either case.

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Home Theater Calibration

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post #9573 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highheater View Post

I am also interested in a mounting option that would allow easy access for later cable installation.

It seemed most of the articulating mounts did not span wide enough to use the mounting holes on the 150FD. Did you have to use some ad hoc connection between the mount and 150FD?

A professional installer told me that the TV would stick out an additional 4 inches beyond that with a flat mount like the Omnimount U3 and would kind of defeat the purpose of a flat mount. Any impressions?

Wouldn't an articulating mount provide some margin of error in possible compensation for overheating?

I just did an install using the Chief PNR dual swing arm articulating mount. In addition to the PNR, I used the PAC 500 in-wall mounting box. This allows the mount to be recessed between the studs (in the PAC 500) for a very low profile flush mount. Also, there are cut-outs in the box for the electrical box and cable runs. You can extend the panel a couple of feet out when needed and swivel or angle the panel for optional viewing angles. This whole set-up is not cheap, but I have not seen any other system that works as well as this one. Check out Chief Manufacturing for more details.

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post #9574 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

I recently calibrated a 4280, and yes it is necessary for a better picture both the low and high end of the grayscale needed adjustment. You may want to consider a HD-DVD player to upscale SD-DVD and to play HD-DVD.... component or HDMI....
.


Pioneer says adjusting the low level RGB gray scale adjustments in the non-Elite units will damage these units and does not recommend it. This will terminate the warranty. A large tracking error at the bottom end may indicate a measurement problem.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #9575 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post

Yes, set for viewing in the dark as he calibrated during the day but I covered all windows with blankets to get it dark in the house. I don't know how people on here use the higher brightness though. If I set brightness at 0, +1 etc at night even with a plasma backlight on it burns my eyes out of their sockets. I have brightness at -3 and contrast at 25 and it's plenty in a dark room and the outdoor scenes don't kill my eyes. It introduces a SMALL amount of black crush but gives the picture that "inky" look to the black as opposed to the washed out look I see when turning up brightness any higher.

As far as the day, I turn up brightness to probably -2 to compensate. Otherwise, it looks great to me after having had my previous two plasmas calibrated as well.

When it was calibrated, was it set to be "correct" at 0 for the brightness, then you adjust it according to personal taste?

I ask because my older Rear Projection CRT set was ISF calibrated and many times there's lots of black crush depending on the channel or source I'm watching. Not only that, I believe my set probably fails to hold it's settings as it ages. Currently I have to have the brightness at +4 to be able to see details in the blacks.

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post #9576 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

When it was calabrated, was it set to be "correct" at 0 for the brightness, then you adjust it according to personal taste?

I ask because my older Rear Projection CRT set was ISF calabrated and many times there's lots of black crush depending on the channel or source I'm watching. Not only that, I beleive my set probably fails to hold it's settings as it ages. Currently I have to have the brightness at +4 to be able to see details in the blacks.

Yeah, at calibration brightness was a 0 and contrast at 29. I lowered them afterward to be more pleasing to my eyes.

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post #9577 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 09:17 AM
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You are going to love it!

I use MLs with my PPO-150 It is great to have High resolution sound to go with the great picture. I use the ML vantage for mains a Logos for center and Aerius (mains from older system) for surrounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisB7605 View Post

I just got a 150fd in and it is AMAZING!!!
I replaced my stereo with Anthem D2 with P5 amp. ML Summit fronts and surrounds. I like it a lot but I know there is a lot of tweaking with a system like this. The delivery guys took 3 days to install and did a fantastic job.
I'm wondering though where the best IFCC calibrator in the Charlotte,NC area is for audio and video. I'm trying to get somebody to come at latest by early '08. Thanks

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post #9578 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post

Yeah, at calibration brightness was a 0 and contrast at 29. I lowered them afterward to be more pleasing to my eyes.

Lowering contrast is no problem. Lowering brightness will crush black details out of the picture.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #9579 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfz View Post

Thanks Max. I understand what you're saying about HD and BR DVD. Someone in an earlier post said that the A35 outputs 480i. I could get no confirmation anywhere online that the A3 does. The last I looked the A2 was more expensive than the A3. I'm also assuming the A3 is better because it's a newer model.

If you go to the Toshiba Gen 3 Forum, you should be able to get confirmation from an A3 and A35 owner that 480i is or is not a choice in their Setup Menus. If I could get the A35 for close to $350, that would be my pick... it (I think, maybe you can confirm this with the Owners Forum too) is the only Gen 3 Toshiba player so far, that will send TrueHD, DD Plus, and DTS-HD out the HDMI connection. This would make it worth more than the less expensive units for me.
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post #9580 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf57 View Post

I don't have a HD DVD source (only satellite at present), but if you haven't tried D-Nice's PRO 110FD/150FD DAY/Reference/Night settings from the first post in the Settings/Issues thread, give them a try and see if it makes any difference. It might be a sharpness/enhancement setting issue.

Thanks. Although I have a 6010 so those settings may not work for me. I've tried the 6010 settings but there aren't any for PS3.
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post #9581 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 10:12 AM
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I am so pumped right now. Just ordered the 5080 and it should be at my doorstep by the latest Monday! I have been trolling through the threads on here and really its a great community full of information - so thanks to all that have contributed! Hopefully I will have some time (if I can ever get away from the new set) to post a few comments on here.

Anyone know of any discussion on the process of setting up the 5080, like what to do, look out for, etc... I have D-nice's settings thread in my favorites and I am planning to burn a copy of the break in CD. Anything else I should know?

Now I just have to make the decision between the HD DVD 360 add on or a standalone player from Toshiba? Any suggestions from owners that have used both?

On another note I would like to see more pictures of people's setups with their pioneers...anyone??
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post #9582 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highheater View Post

I am also interested in a mounting option that would allow easy access for later cable installation.

It seemed most of the articulating mounts did not span wide enough to use the mounting holes on the 150FD. Did you have to use some ad hoc connection between the mount and 150FD? ...

The Sanus Mount VMDD26B fit the 150FD with no modifications required. I do not sense any heat issue is likely with the 150FD - emitting or giving off heat is good for the TV - bad for the electric bill and Global Warming.
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post #9583 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Pioneer says adjusting the low level RGB gray scale adjustments in the non-Elite units will damage these units and does not recommend it. This will terminate the warranty. A large tracking error at the bottom end may indicate a measurement problem.

Jeff, any idea why this would cause damage? I can't imagine how these adjustments could cause damage.
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post #9584 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 11:18 AM
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I'd suggest the Paradigm Studio series!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpatro View Post

1)I will check the monoprice.com for cables, should I look for specific grade, like 10.2 gbps etc?
2) S500 and ps3 was mess-up and I was having the problem with HDMI connection problem with my one year samsun, so I wanted to return the ps3 to EB Games, since the box was opened they did not accept it. However, I was able to get a new replacement, which is still un-opend. Soon, I may sell either PS3 or s500, but not sure which one give-up.
3) Bose speaker are from old system, currently I am going to use these for now. But later, may be next year I will try to get some good speakers. Please suggest some high-end speakers brand/models.



 

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post #9585 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 12:11 PM
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dpatro,

As you can guess from my equip. list, i'm a bit biased, but i would recommend you have a look at Energy speakers.

http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/

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post #9586 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Jeff, any idea why this would cause damage? I can't imagine how these adjustments could cause damage.

There have been issues with people making adjustments, not knowing enough about what they are doing that have resulted in disastrous results, AFAIK.... The firmware in the 8G does not function/react as previous panels did.

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Home Theater Calibration

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post #9587 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paolomaldini View Post

JUDDER

Ok...I love my 6010. It's an amazing TV and I finally just got a PS3 so I'm into the Bluray world. The picture is stunning except for one thing...judder on film sources.

Whenever I watch any motion content with 1080/24p I see a bit of judder. This also happens with primetime TV shows filmed at 24frames/sec. Regular video sources look amazing (ie. live sports). Film based not so much.

I just can't figure it out. Smooth mode seems to improve things a bit. Advance ironically does nothing. I'm outputting 24p directly from my PS3 to the 6010. Shouldn't the Pioneer be displaying this signal in a smooth manner?

I just don't know what to do. If I watch the opening scene of Spiderman 3, for example, when the camera pans over a bunch of newspapers, the black letters lag and streak in a judder-like fashion.

Smooth does help as I said, but it's not consistent and there is a bit of tearing sometimes. I want to get the most out of film based content. Can anyone help or give suggestions on what I should do??

I am using a Pioneer BDP-HD1 BD player set on source direct and see no evidence of judder on our 150FD panel. We have an A2 for HD DVD, so I can't comment on 1080p/24 there.

I currently use D-Nice's reference settings, except I use Advanced instead of Standard. Both have their uses, but my eyes prefer Advanced (my wife prefers Standard, so we use that at times too - I'm just glad she cares about this hobby!). We don't see judder with either.

Can you confirm that your PS3 is actually outputting 1080p/24? I don't have a PS3 so I couldn't help with settings there - maybe a firmware upgrade?
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post #9588 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 02:20 PM
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I have two questions.

1. Do passive HDMI splitters really work or do they screw up the HDMI signal?

2. Is there an advantage to connecting an HD source directly to a TV instead of going through an AVR and then to the TV. Will this affect video quality and the ability to get the most out of ISF calibration. In other words, which is better to achieve the best ISF calibration. Could one of the ISF calibrators please comment?

Thanks
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post #9589 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Lowering contrast is no problem. Lowering brightness will crush black details out of the picture.

In a earlier post, he mentions he likes to lower the brightness just a little bit to give the image a certain look. He even mentioned that there is a "small amount of black crush".

"It introduces a SMALL amount of black crush but gives the picture that "inky" look to the black as opposed to the washed out look I see when turning up brightness any higher.

As far as the day, I turn up brightness to probably -2 to compensate. Otherwise, it looks great to me after having had my previous two plasmas calibrated as well."

For me, when I look at the black film between trailers at the movie theater, it's still not black black black. I see a milky black. Then when the movie is playing and there is bright scenes and dark/black scenes, it looks black. Though I think that's a function of how our eyes perceive contrast. Another words, the black still may be milky black, however with the bright objects on the screen, our eyes adjust for the what little contrast is showing, our eyes adjust and we see jet black in the areas that are suppose to look black.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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post #9590 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soylent View Post

I have two questions.

1. Do passive HDMI splitters really work or do they screw up the HDMI signal?

2. Is there an advantage to connecting an HD source directly to a TV instead of going through an AVR and then to the TV. Will this affect video quality and the ability to get the most out of ISF calibration. In other words, which is better to achieve the best ISF calibration. Could one of the ISF calibrators please comment?

Thanks
Soylent

Calibration can be done either way, however different input devices generally need different settings. If you have a DVD player and a STB connected through a AVR and they have different signal levels you will need to make adjustments to watch one or the other, if the DVD player doesn't have the capability to adjust the picture settings. With the Kuro, this may setting two different modes. With the Elite, when the calibration software is available, the Day/Night modes can be used, however the Elite allows for calibration of each input, therefor, connection direct to the TV would obviously be best. Only the HD/BR players have a need to pass digital audio to an AVR.

Glen Carter
Home Theater Calibration

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post #9591 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

In a earlier post, he mentions he likes to lower the brightness just a little bit to give the image a certain look. He even mentioned that there is a "small amount of black crush".

"It introduces a SMALL amount of black crush but gives the picture that "inky" look to the black as opposed to the washed out look I see when turning up brightness any higher.

As far as the day, I turn up brightness to probably -2 to compensate. Otherwise, it looks great to me after having had my previous two plasmas calibrated as well."

For me, when I look at the black film between trailers at the movie theater, it's still not black black black. I see a milky black. Then when the movie is playing and there is bright scenes and dark/black scenes, it looks black. Though I think that's a function of how our eyes perceive contrast. Another words, the black still may be milky black, however with the bright objects on the screen, our eyes adjust for the what little contrast is showing, our eyes adjust and we see jet black in the areas that are suppose to look black.

With a proper test pattern, you can see where to set brightness, one click in either direction can be a big difference. Crushing blacks to trick yourself into thinking it has better blacks is totally personal preference. At this time you cannot get "black black black". Many make the mistake of trying to watch a Plasma in a totally dark room....... not an optimal viewing choice.

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post #9592 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post


Another interesting comment regarding gaming:
"When playing a game, the "GAME" mode setting within "AV Selection"
is stronly recommended. However, please limit its use to less than
2 hours at a time."

"After playing a game, or displaying a PC image or any still image,it s best to view
a normal moving picture in the "WIDE" or "FULL" screen setting for over 3X longer
than the previous still/moving image."

I'm kinda glad to see they included some guidelines that provide specific values. They still are vague on other parts when they
say "long periods of time". The problem is, for some people long periods could be 1 hour, while for others, it may be 8 hrs. I'm
surprised how much writing they included on preventing IR. It's pretty extensive compared to manuals that I've seen in the past.


Ok, i'm on a waiting list for the Pro150 right now, and this will be my first Flat Screen. (8 year old Sony CRT FTW!!) Anyway what's with only gaming for 2 hours??? I've been know to hit the games for 5+ hours at a time. Is this the right TV for me?
What have others done/do for game time? I'm sure my wife would think its the greatest thing ever to limit me to 2 hours, but i'm not going to spend $$$$ on a Display that's going to fry if i play for 3-4 hours or even 5-6 hours at one time for a day-marathon weekend session...
Should i be reconsidering?? Any input would be appreciated especially after searching at length through 1000's of posts.

Alright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer - Homer Simpson
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post #9593 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 03:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

For me, when I look at the black film between trailers at the movie theater, it's still not black black black. I see a milky black. Then when the movie is playing and there is bright scenes and dark/black scenes, it looks black. Though I think that's a function of how our eyes perceive contrast. Another words, the black still may be milky black, however with the bright objects on the screen, our eyes adjust for the what little contrast is showing, our eyes adjust and we see jet black in the areas that are suppose to look black.

Kind of like seeing the size of the moon in relation to the horizon versus up high in the sky. Human perception is a wonderful thing.

I have also discovered that black bars look gray on a 50PX50U when compared to those on a PRO-150FD.
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post #9594 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 03:20 PM
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Oh yeah, with DVE it shows black level on my 150FD to be set at +1. In around 10 minutes of viewing in a darkened room even with a plasma backlight my eyes are literally bleeding lol This takes place during daytime scenes in the films. I really had no choice. I could either watch with all the lights on or watch in the dark with a little black crush. Also, with the -3 brightness setting as others mentioned I get rid of the "milky black". As mentioned, it's all personal preference but I noticed I was turning off movies after 30 minutes or so with tears in my eyes. Now, my previous 2 plasmas were calibrated with roughly the same brightness settings so it's most likely what my eyes were used to. I tried the brighter setting for 2 months and just couldn't take it.

Elite PRO-70X5FD!

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post #9595 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post

Oh yeah, with DVE it shows black level on my 150FD to be set at +1. In around 10 minutes of viewing in a darkened room even with a plasma backlight my eyes are literally bleeding lol This takes place during daytime scenes in the films. I really had no choice. I could either watch with all the lights on or watch in the dark with a little black crush. Also, with the -3 brightness setting as others mentioned I get rid of the "milky black". As mentioned, it's all personal preference but I noticed I was turning off movies after 30 minutes or so with tears in my eyes. Now, my previous 2 plasmas were calibrated with roughly the same brightness settings so it's most likely what my eyes were used to. I tried the brighter setting for 2 months and just couldn't take it.

This might be of some help for your eyes dvdguru, check posts 791-792
in this thread:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=lume&page=27

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post #9596 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 03:54 PM
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Thanks Gellidius, I'm using that ideal lume plasma backlight and I believe I've only got one filter attached now. I could remove the filter but then I'd have a bare bulb back there basically. I may need to try that

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post #9597 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

I recently calibrated a 4280, and yes it is necessary for a better picture both the low and high end of the grayscale needed adjustment. You may want to consider a HD-DVD player to upscale SD-DVD and to play HD-DVD.... component or HDMI....

720p or 1080i via component is a solid signal, no problem. you can use either one because the image needs to be scaled to 768p in either case.

Thanks Glen!...I'll consider a HD-DVD
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post #9598 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 04:29 PM
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right now my bias lighting level is around 20% instead of the recommended 10%; when it was at the recommended level, my eyes would tire after only 30-45 mins.

At 20% or so, I don't see any degradation of image quality, but then i haven't looked very hard yet for any difference. i will fine tune the light level in the near future and see if i can lower the level some.

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post #9599 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Jeff, any idea why this would cause damage? I can't imagine how these adjustments could cause damage.

I am confused as well, but I can tell you it is their position.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #9600 of 17587 Old 11-27-2007, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

With a proper test pattern, you can see where to set brightness, one click in either direction can be a big difference. Crushing blacks to trick yourself into thinking it has better blacks is totally personal preference. At this time you cannot get "black black black". Many make the mistake of trying to watch a Plasma in a totally dark room....... not an optimal viewing choice.

Personally I don't think I would want to see black black black. At least in the form of loosing details in the dark image.

As far as watching in a totally black room, I personally like doing that...even if it is not correct. Maybe it's bad as the effect will make the blacks look not so totally black on the plasma, however like my example of watching movie trailers in a movie theater, I never see totally black blacks between the trailers as there seems to always be light coming through the film and spilling onto the screen.

Therefore, I would not expect the blacks on a TV to be inky black at anytime...unless when mixed with "regular" images on the screen when there are other amounts of brightness levels all at the same time.

To me, the movie theater is a reference. If that is the effect that I and most home theater enthusiasts are going after, then I would say that these 8G KURO products do a great job of recreating that reality.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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