The Official Pioneer 8G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 289 - AVS Forum
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post #8641 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by cjre1 View Post

True, but for the right price $$$ he might travel there. JK.

Why should he when his partner Eliab is near by?
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post #8642 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlevin View Post

Maybe I missed some posts, but have you taken your Kuro back to default on the settings and re-entered D-Nice's settings? Have you changed anything in the SM? Did you post the RGB defaults from the SM of your set?

Have you tried another connection from your source (STB or Player), HDMI instead of Component or vise-versa, another source or is the source the tuner on the Kuro?

I have two 8G Pioneers with D-Nice's setting and they are excellent.

The answer is no to all of your questions. I really didn't spend much time on the D-Nice settings. But I will go through your suggestions and see what I can figure out. I don't feel comfortable changing anything in the SM, so I haven't. I've only tested the settings with a TiVo S3 as the source. I'll give it a try with a Blu-Ray and see if the results are the same.
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post #8643 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

Anything is possible, but it is more likely you are accustomed to the blue-white look that has been standard on TV's for decades. It's not "accurate," but it is very pleasing to most people's eyes. It's the look we've seen all of our lives. That's why Pioneer (and virtually everyone else) defaults to it (the Mid color temp) and provides an even bluer color temp (High) for those who prefer that.

It's often commented that it takes awhile to get used to the way a calibrated set looks. The first reaction of many people is that everything has a yellow or brown or reddish cast. That's why people here have wisely suggested you look at similar settings before you spend your money on an ISF calibration.

I'm in a minority here in that I never found D-Nice's settings to my taste either. They looked "flat" to me. I couldn't get my 5080 to look "right" until I finally decided to venture into the service menu. Even then, it took many attempts over several months. It still looks "warm" compared to stock TVs, but the colors are clearly very accurate and I now find the "cool" bluish cast of most TVs to be distracting. No doubt a pro could get it even better, but I can't afford that luxury at this time.

BTW, you can check out Avical's website to get the answer to a number of questions. Eliab will be in your neck of the woods in late May.

Is the Standard setting generally regarded as pretty bad? It doesn't look fantastic to me, but it doesn't look that bad. So if Standard really is pretty bad, maybe it is just me.
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post #8644 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The default Standard mode has a color temp of 8K+. No where near accurate. My non-SM settings for the non-Elites are on the red side due to the Low color temp averaging 6K. That is why I posted SM RGB offests to get you closer to D65.
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post #8645 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The default Standard mode has a color temp of 8K+. No where near accurate. My non-SM settings for the non-Elites are on the red side due to the Low color temp averaging 6K. That is why I posted SM RGB offests to get you closer to D65.

So your reference settings should be much more accurate than the Standard settings. But not as accurate as they will be if I also adjust the RGB offset in the SM. Correct?
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post #8646 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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post #8647 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Correct

Okay, I obviously need to spend more time on this. Thanks!
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post #8648 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoHD View Post

That's what confuses me. Everyone talks about how good D-Nice's settings are, but they just aren't working on my TV. The colors are WAY off. It's like looking at everything with yellow glasses on. Is it possible that one of the color settings in the service menu is set wrong on my TV?

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Originally Posted by stewa View Post

Keep in mind that if you don't like a picture with D'Nice's settings (or something fairly close to it) you may be disappointed with calibration results.

All displays are not the same. It may be production run based, switching component suppliers, design revisions. This is why shareing settings is a gamble. Just because one doesn't like the settings from another display, it doesn't mean they were anywhere close to "calibrated." There also can be issues and differences with input devices.

If one has never seen a properly calibrated display with reference level picture, how do they know any setting is right? Grayscale really needs the proper color analyzer to adjust it correctly and accurately. Anything else is just a guess, and that can have an affect on color and tint settings as well.

Glen Carter
Home Theater Calibration
www.ISFHT.com
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post #8649 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:38 PM
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tomrrow the Joe Kane Digital Video Essentials comes out on blu ray
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post #8650 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:42 PM
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to tivo hd re calibration. I notice you live in Vermont. I live in CT and have always had my sets calibrated by lionav.com. The proprietor lives in Maine. He just did my new Pioneer Elite PRO -150FD.
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post #8651 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

All displays are not the same. It may be production run based, switching component suppliers, design revisions. This is why shareing settings is a gamble. Just because one doesn't like the settings from another display, it doesn't mean they were anywhere close to "calibrated." There also can be issues and differences with input devices.

If one has never seen a properly calibrated display with reference level picture, how do they know any setting is right? Grayscale really needs the proper color analyzer to adjust it correctly and accurately. Anything else is just a guess, and that can have an affect on color and tint settings as well.

Speaking only of Pioneer, they cannot leave the factory unless the calibration variance from the baseline profile is 5 or less% (non-Elites...Eltes are 3%). So revisions throught the life cycle still have to adhere to the basline profile.

Second, as someone pointed out earlier, if one is not use to a D65 (or 6K) picture, it will appear, to their eyes, to be "yellow" or "red". For those who know what D65 looks like, it will look white.

Finally, you will never get a D65 picture without going into the SM with the non-Elites....color analyzer or not. The low color temp is coded @ 6K....mid 8K+....high 10K+.
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post #8652 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoHD View Post

Is the Standard setting generally regarded as pretty bad? It doesn't look fantastic to me, but it doesn't look that bad. So if Standard really is pretty bad, maybe it is just me.

They are designed to appeal the a broad market, largely comprised of people accustomed to a "cool" looking color temp. They may look "bad" to people here, but we are not representative of the market at large. Most people would find them to be quite good, which is no doubt why Pioneer chose them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The default Standard mode has a color temp of 8K+. No where near accurate. My non-SM settings for the non-Elites are on the red side due to the Low color temp averaging 6K. That is why I posted SM RGB offests to get you closer to D65.

To qualify by previous comment, I liked your SM settings very well, distinctly better than anything I had attempted up to that point.

However, I was spooked by Pioneer's warnings not to change the RGB Lows, and your changes there were quite large, so for my own piece of mind I finally switched back to my own Low based settings. In the end, I discovered some I like as well or even a little better, with less radical SM adjustments.

I might never have found my present settings if the SM suggestions you posted hadn't shown me the possibilities, though, and for that I can't thank you too much.
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post #8653 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 01:00 PM
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Is LION calibration any good?

I lvev in Boston and saw that he comes here pretty often being in NE.

I was going to go with them or UMR, but havn't heard any reports for lion.

I wanted sound to be claibrated as well.

Al P Jones, can you writeup a quick review of the cost / service?
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post #8654 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al P Jones View Post

to tivo hd re calibration. I notice you live in Vermont. I live in CT and have always had my sets calibrated by lionav.com. The proprietor lives in Maine. He just did my new Pioneer Elite PRO -150FD.

Al P Jones,

You left us hanging. I speak for all, when I say this: So how does your PRO-150FD look after the calibration? Can you please tell us if the settings were off and by how much. Details, please. Thanks.
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post #8655 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al P Jones View Post

to tivo hd re calibration. I notice you live in Vermont. I live in CT and have always had my sets calibrated by lionav.com. The proprietor lives in Maine. He just did my new Pioneer Elite PRO -150FD.

Post a report of your reactions to your new and "calibrated" 150FD along with the calibrator's name. I'll include it in the list of owner's reports that is linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #8656 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Speaking only of Pioneer, they cannot leave the factory unless the calibration variance from the baseline profile is 5 or less% (non-Elites...Eltes are 3%). So revisions throught the life cycle still have to adhere to the basline profile.

Second, as someone pointed out earlier, if one is not use to a D65 (or 6K) picture, it will appear, to their eyes, to be "yellow" or "red". For those who know what D65 looks like, it will look white.

Finally, you will never get a D65 picture without going into the SM with the non-Elites....color analyzer or not. The low color temp is coded @ 6K....mid 8K+....high 10K+.


Just wanted to check with you and see where you were with the SM offsets for the non-elites. I saw you updated the default settings via the first page and wanted to see if you were still supporting the RGB offsets low and high?

Hit me up if you'd like to comment offline.

Thanks,
Eric
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post #8657 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjre1 View Post

Al P Jones,

You left us hanging. I speak for all, when I say this: So how does your PRO-150FD look after the calibration? Can you please tell us if the settings were off and by how much. Details, please. Thanks.

Ditto from MA.
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post #8658 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 03:35 PM
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DNice, what are you addressing with the updated settings?
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post #8659 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 04:52 PM
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Thank you D-Nice for the latest settings. Using our 1150...my wife prefers USER settings & I prefer PURE. Yes...after 35 years of marriage, you know what we settings we use. Ronnie
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post #8660 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Centurion View Post

DNice, what are you addressing with the updated settings?

The updates are minor....boosted the peak light output.
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post #8661 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itbvolks View Post

Just wanted to check with you and see where you were with the SM offsets for the non-elites. I saw you updated the default settings via the first page and wanted to see if you were still supporting the RGB offsets low and high?

Hit me up if you'd like to comment offline.

Thanks,
Eric

You probably will never see me "officially" support SM RGB changes as I do not want to be blamed for someone screwing up their panel.

I do not have any updates for SM tweaks.
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post #8662 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 05:01 PM
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I'd never openly recommend anyone without some knowledge poke around in the SM ever. Anyone doing so, should under the understanding that serious paperweighting could result.

That being said, not looking for numbers, just want to verify the previous holds true?
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post #8663 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You probably will never see me "officially" support SM RGB changes as I do not want to be blamed for someone screwing up their panel.

I do not have any updates for SM tweaks.

speaking of your SM RGB modifications, what do your honestly think happens to the accuracy when the LOW RGB settings are left @ stock(512)?

I see a lot of people doing that, however I haven't bothered to try and compare, I know they're doing it because pioneer "advises" not to... if your offsets get very close to D65 (i'm not sure if they do or not i haven't verified but damn it looks good), what would happen if you used the HIGH RGB changes, but left the LOW side factory?

It seems to me Pioneer only advises not touching the lows so it doesn't look as good as an elite
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post #8664 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al P Jones View Post

to tivo hd re calibration. I notice you live in Vermont. I live in CT and have always had my sets calibrated by lionav.com. The proprietor lives in Maine. He just did my new Pioneer Elite PRO -150FD.

Excellent, thanks! I'll definitely check them out.
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post #8665 of 12876 Old 03-24-2008, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The updates are minor....boosted the peak light output.

No matter how minor, I for one am always happy to have updates. Thanks.
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post #8666 of 12876 Old 03-25-2008, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

I think you are correct D Nice..... Here is what I responded to HDPeet on the other thread (he posted the same question.)

"I was just about to make the same exact posting as you did HDPeet.....

I was always under the impression, as most here, that when sending a 1080p/24 signal from a player, that Pure Cinema was to be on advanced to take advantage of the 72Hz capability of this set. It seems to me that the Samsung 1200 he was using for this review, was not set up to output the 1080p 24. I say this because using my own Samsung 1400, the same thing happened to me. When I looked at the TV's film-mode (deinterlace) setting, all options except Off were grayed out, yet the Advance setting appeared to be selected with a dot next to it. I than checked to see if my 1400 was set properly.... and it wasn't, it was on 1080P 60hz, which according to Pioneer (manual) it will grey out all those Advanced Cinema settings. (see below)

Standard is not selectable for the following input signals:
480p, 720p@60 Hz, 1080p@60 Hz.
Smooth is not selectable for the following input signals:
1080p@60 Hz.
Advance is not selectable for the following input signals:
1080p@60 Hz.

I have an 1150hd and i notice that when being fed a 1080i signal none of the cinema settings are greyed out. Also when being fed a 1080p/24 (via an xa2) the options aren't greyed out either. Does anyone else have this issue?
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post #8667 of 12876 Old 03-25-2008, 04:56 AM
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D-nice's settings are great but while calibrating my own PRO 950HD I came up with slightly different color temp and color management. I used a spyder2 colorimeter and HCFR, and I believe D-nice got his settings by eye. I think it looks better, at least to my eyes with my specific television. If anyone cares to try them out and tell me what you think, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Pioneer Elite 950/1150 Reference Settings

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 29
Brightness: 0
Color: +6
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15


Pro Adjust

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Standard
Text Optimization: Off

Intelligence: Off


Picture Detail:

DRE Picture: Off
Black Level: Off
ACL: Off
Enhancer Mode: 2
Gamma: 2


Color Detail:

Color Temp: Manual
R High -5
G High 0
B High +7
R Low +1
G Low -1
B Low -4

CTI: Off

Color Management
R -9
Y +4
G +11
C -6
B -4
M +8

Color Space: 2


Noise Reduction:

3DNR: Off
Field NR: Off
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off

Power Save Mode: Off

Orbiter: On
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post #8668 of 12876 Old 03-25-2008, 05:17 AM
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To all who are requiring additional information on lionav.com I would suggest that you go to their website which is very comprehensive. The person who has calibrated my sets is Gregg Loewen who is the president of LionAV who performs a lot of the calibrations on the East Coast. The site lists in detail all services provided including pre-evaluation of equipment and viewing environment. One page on the site includes over 25 reviews from people with all types of home theaters. They have calibrated the systems used by the owner of HomeTheaterForum.com. You will receive via emai a report showing before and after on such things as chromacity coordinates, temperature tracking, and color tracking. Color temp on my plasma was running about 6000 Kelvin and now is very close to 6500 across the IRE. Color tracking adjustment resulted in red, green and blue being in line. I've had him previously calibrate three Sony XBR RPTV's. I have been very happy with those results. I think the picture I am getting from my plasma is the best I have seen and am very satisfied with the results.
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post #8669 of 12876 Old 03-25-2008, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornavy25 View Post

D-nice's settings are great but while calibrating my own PRO 950HD I came up with slightly different color temp and color management. I used a spyder2 colorimeter and HCFR, and I believe D-nice got his settings by eye. I think it looks better, at least to my eyes with my specific television. If anyone cares to try them out and tell me what you think, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Pioneer Elite 950/1150 Reference Settings

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 29
Brightness: 0
Color: +6
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15


Pro Adjust

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Standard
Text Optimization: Off

Intelligence: Off


Picture Detail:

DRE Picture: Off
Black Level: Off
ACL: Off
Enhancer Mode: 2
Gamma: 2


Color Detail:

Color Temp: Manual
R High -5
G High 0
B High +7
R Low +1
G Low -1
B Low -4

CTI: Off

Color Management
R -9
Y +4
G +11
C -6
B -4
M +8

Color Space: 2


Noise Reduction:

3DNR: Off
Field NR: Off
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off

Power Save Mode: Off

Orbiter: On

I actually use a PR-655 with Colorfacts 7. The spyder2 probes have been found to have serious issues with plasmas. You may want to look into getting a better probe. The i1pros are a very good choice.
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post #8670 of 12876 Old 03-25-2008, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I actually use a PR-655 with Colorfacts 7. The spyder2 probes have been found to have serious issues with plasmas. You may want to look into getting a better probe. The i1pros are a very good choice.

D-Nice's settings were pretty darn close to my ISF calibrator that used a PR-655 as well. Except for the "B" color management setting, none of the color settings differed by more than 2 clicks, with most within 0 or 1 click.
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