The Official Pioneer 8G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 334 - AVS Forum
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post #9991 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirluckyj View Post

Is it better to set the XA2 to output 1080p for HD DVD's or 1080i and let the 150 do the scaling? Thanks.

Jim

1080p/24


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post #9992 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

1080p/24

I should have been more specific. I agree with you on film based material, but I watch mostly video based HD concerts. Thanks.

Jim
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post #9993 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 06:11 AM
 
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Definitely set the XA2 to 1080p at 24fps.

-Robert
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post #9994 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Definitely set the XA2 to 1080p at 24fps.

-Robert

But video based material HD material is 30 fps, not 24 fps.

Jim
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post #9995 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirluckyj View Post

But video based material HD material is 30 fps, not 24 fps.

Jim

1080p/60? I personally leave my XA2 on 1080p/24 and set the film mode to auto.


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post #9996 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirluckyj View Post

But video based material HD material is 30 fps, not 24 fps.

Jim

you said your HD-DVD's though right? isn't HD 24fps?
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post #9997 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 07:22 AM
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on the 5010, can you make it so the input info banner doesn't pop up every time you change resolutions? it's bugging me. i use native output on my TivoHD for the most accurate scaling and every time i change channels or back to Tivo Central I get the "INPUT 4 720p" etc in the upper righthand corner.
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post #9998 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 07:51 AM
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I don't think so. You could have it use just one resolution and you wouldn't get that but if you want the best picture just leave it on native.
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post #9999 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 07:54 AM
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thanks. so how are you liking it? for me, it's amazing

i ended up putting on the speaker even though i don't use it and it isn't wired up, just for asthetics because i didn't like the chicken legs.
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post #10000 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 08:10 AM
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I'm loving my 5010! The picture is amazing and D-Nice settings help the set look even more amazing. I'm still figuring out some different settings for games because D-Nice settings are a bit to dark for some games.

Even after 100hours I still have 1 stuck/dead pixel, some colors it works and some it doesn't and I only notice it on the break-in DVD so I'm not super worried about it but I still wish it fully started working.
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post #10001 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 08:14 AM
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i got lucky with no problems other than a light buzz but i read that's normal. and it's only noticeable in the quietest of situations, so no biggie.
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post #10002 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 08:17 AM
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What's your set manufacture date? Mines October 2007
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post #10003 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 08:25 AM
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i haven't even looked. i'll check when i get home.
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post #10004 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 09:48 AM
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When using D-Nice's settings on a 150, is it acceptable to use the "standard" setting instead of the recommended "pure" setting? Or would I be messing all the other settings up?

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post #10005 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

When using D-Nice's settings on a 150, is it acceptable to use the "standard" setting instead of the recommended "pure" setting? Or would I be messing all the other settings up?

All of my settings are specific to the A/V selection that is listed. Please do not attempt to use one set of A/V selection with another.


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post #10006 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 10:11 AM
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D-Nice, I have a different sort of question.

I'm running the settings below on my 5080, which are derived from your old Movie Mode settings and my own mucking about with Service Menu RBG high settings. Time permitting, I was wondering if you could check these out sometime and offer your thoughts as to how near (or far) you think they are from your latest User Mode/Service Menu RBG high and low settings. Most of my viewing is Comcast HD through a Motorola 3416 box, if that makes any difference.

SERVICE MENU OFFSETS
Red High -10
Blue High no change
Green High -5

MOVIE MODE
Contrast = 40
Brightness = + 1
Color = -3
Tint = 4 Red
Sharpness -5

Pro Adjust:
PureCinema
Film Mode = Standard
Text Optimization = Off

Picture Detail:
DRE Picture = Low
Black Level = Off
ACL = Off
Enhancer Mode = 2
Gamma = 3

Color Detail:
Color Temp = Low
CTI = Off

Noise Reduction:
3DNR - Low
Field NR = Off
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post #10007 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

1080p/60? I personally leave my XA2 on 1080p/24 and set the film mode to auto.

This should result in 1080p24 for film sources and 1080i for video sources which would seem to be the preferred way to go (assuming 1080p24 works on the XA2). Can't assume though, as Tosh may or may not have it set up that way.
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post #10008 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

This should result in 1080p24 for film sources and 1080i for video sources which would seem to be the preferred way to go (assuming 1080p24 works on the XA2). Can't assume though, as Tosh may or may not have it set up that way.

No player does what would be the best.

The Toshiba's will output 1080p/60 for everything except HD-DVD when set to 1080p/24. A PS3 can be set to output 1080i for DVD's and 1080p/24 for Blu-Ray. All other players I have seen behave like the Toshiba's.

The best bet for most players is to use a 1080i output and let the display sort it out.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #10009 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

All of my settings are specific to the A/V selection that is listed. Please do not attempt to use one set of A/V selection with another.

Ok, thanks. That's what I needed to know.

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post #10010 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 02:06 PM
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Do the Elites have enough control over gamma to do "perfect" 2.5 gamma curve? Meaning without bumps, which make it an "s-shape." I'm thinking about the 9G models when they come out in a few months. The 9Gs have enough contrast that they can support, contrast wise, a 2.4 to 2.5 gamma curve. The only problem is if there are settings which can be calibrated to support it? Without an external video processor. The current rumor is that the 9Gs will only have the same calibration controls, which affect gamma, that the 8Gs have. Thanks.
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post #10011 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Do the Elites have enough control over gamma to do "perfect" 2.5 gamma curve? Meaning without bumps, which make it an "s-shape." I'm thinking about the 9G models when they come out in a few months. The 9Gs have enough contrast that they can support, contrast wise, a 2.4 to 2.5 gamma curve. The only problem is if there are settings which can be calibrated to support it? Without an external video processor. The current rumor is that the 9Gs will only have the same calibration controls, which affect gamma, that the 8Gs have. Thanks.

You will need to use the ISFccc tools.


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post #10012 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You will need to use the ISFccc tools.

Are those finally officially available and endorsed by Pioneer for the current version of ISFccc the 8Gs and 9Gs use? If so that'd be awesome. Last I heard, the ISFccc tools weren't available for the current model.
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post #10013 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Are those finally officially available and endorsed by Pioneer for the current version of ISFccc the 8Gs and 9Gs use? If so that'd be awesome. Last I heard, the ISFccc tools weren't available for the current model.

8G tools have been available for awhile now. No tools are available for the 9Gs.


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post #10014 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

8G tools have been available for awhile now. No tools are available for the 9Gs.

That sucks. With how much Pioneer charges for the Elite brand, you'd think they'd have the tools necessary for testing while building the plasma. I hope by the time the Signature series come out, it's available. I've seen a 2.5 gamma calibrated broadcast monitor, there's just no substitute. 2.2 gamma doesn't come close to the rich depth of color tonal quality it produces. The only problem with a broadcast monitor is they're only ~20 inches diagonal or less!
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post #10015 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 04:14 PM
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With all this talk of 2.5 gamma, have you ever indicated D-Nice what the target gamma is for the Ref settings you supplied for the Elite 1150? Subjectively I will say it looks very nice, but I'd be curious to know the gamma value and how closely it tracks - at least on the set(s) you may have used to develop the settings.
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post #10016 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyptony View Post

With all this talk of 2.5 gamma, have you ever indicated D-Nice what the target gamma is for the Ref settings you supplied for the Elite 1150? Subjectively I will say it looks very nice, but I'd be curious to know the gamma value and how closely it tracks - at least on the set(s) you may have used to develop the settings.

I think that Pioneer uses a 2.2 gamma by default. This would be done for two reasons:

1) Lots of manufacturures mistakenly think that because the camera gamma is 2.2, that the system gamma is 1.0, so then the display gamma is 2.2 too. But that's not true, system gamma is ~1.14, camera gamma is 2.2 and the display gamma is 2.5. Like this:

Display Gamma 2.5 / Camera Gamma 2.2 = System Gamma ~1.14.

2) A 2.5 gamma needs a minimum of 18,000:1 CR before black level becomes blacker than a 2% stim. With a 2.2 gamma only 6,000:1 CR is needed for a 2% stim, 18,000:1 allows for under 2% stim. A 50,000:1 CR like the 9Gs are supposed to have would allow a nearly 1.25% stim and handle 2% easily. So what gamma value you can use is limited by the contrast ratio, if you don't want to crush black.

I still haven't gotten a clear definitive answer what the next stim value after 0% is, and I'd like to know that so I can calculate what the minimum contrast value for a "perfect" black level display has to be, contrast wise, before it can do 2.5 gamma completely.
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post #10017 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 05:40 PM
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Hello to all, newbie to the forum D Nice I have a question for you or any other member that can help me out. I have a Yamaha Rx-v1800 arriving next week which im aware has a video clipping issue. Is it it going to affect the reference settings that Im using? Or are people making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. Im very happy with the quality using these settings and dont want crushed blacks or my picture quality to degrade. Any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
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post #10018 of 12879 Old 05-09-2008, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

I think that Pioneer uses a 2.2 gamma by default. This would be done for two reasons:

1) Lots of manufacturures mistakenly think that because the camera gamma is 2.2, that the system gamma is 1.0, so then the display gamma is 2.2 too. But that's not true, system gamma is ~1.14, camera gamma is 2.2 and the display gamma is 2.5. Like this:

Thanks for the explanation reio-ta. I am quite familiar with the 2.2 value as I do a bit of photo processing on my computer system. Didn't realize system gamma was different for broadcast displays.
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post #10019 of 12879 Old 05-10-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

That sucks. With how much Pioneer charges for the Elite brand, you'd think they'd have the tools necessary for testing while building the plasma. I hope by the time the Signature series come out, it's available. I've seen a 2.5 gamma calibrated broadcast monitor, there's just no substitute. 2.2 gamma doesn't come close to the rich depth of color tonal quality it produces. The only problem with a broadcast monitor is they're only ~20 inches diagonal or less!

I think it's hard to attribute the picture quality you're seeing on a $15,000-$30,000 20" broadcast monitor to just a gamma setting. There are so many other attributes that gives the picture the look you see aside from its gamma curve. The pricing of broadcast monitors allow the manufacturers to put in guts that consumer equipment simply don't have.
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post #10020 of 12879 Old 05-10-2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

8G tools have been available for awhile now. No tools are available for the 9Gs.

Actually, we have the support now but the Profiles cannot be released outside Pioneer until the 9G's are released (unless I am instructed otherwise).

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