Wall mounting your Plasma? I hope you read this. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 143 Old 07-30-2007, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I have been reading several threads on this site, current and past. I've noticed a number of folks are mounting their flat screen TV's on the wall and asking about how and what cables to run.
Well, many of the posts also have questions and replies regarding the power cord. I read many post that some thought or could make it work with running the cord in the wall. I'm concerned when I read those with the danger in doing that is actually high. The number 1 cause for most household fires is old or faulty extension cords that dry out over time and short out.
The reason for this thread is to alert others of the danger in doing so, be safe not cheap and stupid.

For the record, the NEC National Electric Code does not allow flexible cords that carry electricity to be in or through a wall.

Here's the CODE:

NEC ARTICLE 400 Flexible Cords and Cables
I. General 400.1 Scope.
This article covers general requirements, applications, and construction specifications for flexible cords and flexible cables.
400.8 Uses Not Permitted.
Flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:

(1)As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure

(2)Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors

(3)Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings

(4)Where attached to building surfaces
Exception: Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.8.

(5)Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings

(6)Where installed in raceways, outside of the wall, floor, ceiling except as otherwise permitted in this Code


So, I'm posting this to hopefully keep you and others safe.
There are two products on the market designed specifically for in-wall electrical wiring and outlets to meet NEC CODE.

One is made by Panamax it's $299.95
http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?...il&id=221&ly=h

The other is PowerBridge it's $49.00
http://powerbridgesolution.com/aboutpowerbridge.html

They both provide the solution needed to meet CODE. I have the PowerBridge myself and they offer different wall plate colors and cheaper.

Look at these products, they are the only way to meet CODE and protect your TV and your home from potential damage.

FYI note, if you do decide to run your power cord or an extension cord in the wall and it causes a fire, your home/renter insurance will probably NOT pay any damage claim as their investigators will determine a code violation.

Before you all hit me with the question regarding your A/V cables... They are LOW voltage and not under the NEC code. However, I will stress that some areas local building codes may require CL2/3 rated inwall low voltage cables, especially if you are building new and the home is due for an inspection.

Ok all that said, the other point to all this is to have your expensive TV protected by a real surge protector/conditioner, and both of these products will allow that too, so, extra bonus!

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #2 of 143 Old 07-30-2007, 08:11 PM
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post #3 of 143 Old 07-30-2007, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Funny!! just fixed them... I don't know what the heck.. good luck

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post #4 of 143 Old 07-30-2007, 08:50 PM
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would running the av cables right next to the romex in the wall cause interference.if you use the panamax the cables and power are very close.
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post #5 of 143 Old 07-30-2007, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoma13 View Post

would running the av cables right next to the romex in the wall cause interference.if you use the panamax the cables and power are very close.

You make a very good point regards to av cables running close to AC.. I don't really know for sure what the rule is, I've been told not too and keep them at least 8-10" apart and not run them in parallel. I also noticed on the panamax unit you have to buy those av connection modules separately.

I chose the Powerbridge over that Panamax mostly for price but also because it allowed me to keep my av cables separated from the AC. So good notice yourself!

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post #6 of 143 Old 07-30-2007, 09:36 PM
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I would be nervous about the heat not being able to escape mounted on the wall
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post #7 of 143 Old 07-30-2007, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I would be nervous about the heat not being able to escape mounted on the wall

? Heat? What heat? escape? Help me with this one... An electrcial outlet doesn't generate any heat. Both products are designed to meet NEC code using ROMEX inside the wall, just like every outlet and switch you have in your house, unless you have some kind of special thermal wiring I've never heard of..

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post #8 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVlover45 View Post

? Heat? What heat? escape? Help me with this one... An electrcial outlet doesn't generate any heat. Both products are designed to meet NEC code using ROMEX inside the wall, just like every outlet and switch you have in your house, unless you have some kind of special thermal wiring I've never heard of..

I'm talking about the fans on the back of the plasma that cools the electronics and pushes the air out of the plasma. If it's smothered against the wall wont that = high temps, bad cooling
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post #9 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 03:52 AM
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I guess that all depends on where the fans are located. The Panny I have has a several fans mounted on the top back.

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post #10 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 06:08 AM
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Good information.
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post #11 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 07:46 AM
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I paid a certified electrician $150 to come out and run an outlet to the middle of the wall where I will mount my Plasma. I felt having a qualified electrician was worth the money, and I meet code if I ever sell the house.

It never even occured to me to try to run an extension cord IN the wall, that just sounds WAY too dangerous.

Good thread.
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post #12 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 08:51 AM
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Can someone further explain the parts needed for the low voltage side? What type of boxes, conduit, wall plates, connectors, etc... Pictures would be great. The PowerBridge is a great solution for high voltage, but I went to HD to figure out the low voltage parts and left empty handed.
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post #13 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVlover45 View Post

I chose the Powerbridge over that Panamax mostly for price but also because it allowed me to keep my av cables separated from the AC. So good notice yourself!

Understood. I went with the Panamax units and their modules which make for a very neat arrangement and have not had any problems with them to date.

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post #14 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I'm talking about the fans on the back of the plasma that cools the electronics and pushes the air out of the plasma. If it's smothered against the wall wont that = high temps, bad cooling

Zues,

Ok, now I understand your concern. First the TV on the wall is not actually going to be completely flat against the wall and the minimum distance I've ever seen for any wall mount is just over an inch. Any FP TV I've seen will still dissipate heat even on the wall or the manufacturers wouldn't make the mounting hole on the back.

Any heat coming from the back of the TV would have nothing to do with the electrical outlet in anyway. There are ten's of thousands of wall mounted TV's and I've never read, heard or seen any posts that heat on the wall from a TV has ever been an issue.

So I hope I've helped your thoughts on this. Good day!

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #15 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 11:21 AM
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Question:

A friend is wall-mounting his TV and is just going to run Romex through a hole in the wall and have it pop out in another spot. In other words, the Romex will not terminate in an outlet at the top/bottom of the run, but will instead just pop out of the wall. He will then add a female plug connector at the top to plug the TV into, and then a male end at the bottom to plug into the surge protector.

I know this is not up to code, but is it actually dangerous? The only cable that is actually in the wall is Romex, he's not running a normal power cord or extension cord in-wall.

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post #16 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Question:

A friend is wall-mounting his TV and is just going to run Romex through a hole in the wall and have it pop out in another spot. In other words, the Romex will not terminate in an outlet at the top/bottom of the run, but will instead just pop out of the wall. He will then add a female plug connector at the top to plug the TV into, and then a male end at the bottom to plug into the surge protector.

I know this is not up to code, but is it actually dangerous? The only cable that is actually in the wall is Romex, he's not running a normal power cord or extension cord in-wall.

Oh boy.... WHY do people think short cuts are a good idea??

Very bad idea in my opinion, ROMEX is not designed to have plugs installed on them and it MAY be an NEC violation, that I'm not sure of, but will try to ask my electricain buddy.
I will bet ROMEX just sticking out of the wall not terminated to an actual outlet receptical is not to code.

So why do it at all? Electricity is not something you "play" with or just "rig" together, especially when lives and property are at stake. Does your friend have any children in the house that could come in contact with this "romex rig"? Ok, I'm on a soap box now and I'm sorry, I'll get off.

Doing what your friend is speculating, will not only look crappy, but ROMEX is stiff and not flexible to do what your saying and will be a real pain to make work and look even close to anything "professional".

Do it right or don't do it at all.... the PowerBridge is only $50.00!!! why try to cheapo out on this?

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #17 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 01:04 PM
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Maybe I'm missing it i but how does the PowerBridge work differently from the outlet that I installed behind the TV?

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
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post #18 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Maybe I'm missing it i but how does the PowerBridge work differently from the outlet that I installed behind the TV?

Hey VidPro,

Well since I have no idea what type of outlet you have behind your TV now, I'm just going to guess it's just a standard outlet that is either "branched" with romex from another nearby outlet or a outlet that is like all the others in your home that are connected with other outlets in that room/area and part of the actual circuit at the panel.

Ok, so nothing wrong with that, I'm sure if it was installed by an electrician then it's code compliant.

Ok, the reason I was so excited about finding the Powerbridge, I wanted to have my TV protected by my Pure AV power surge/conditioner/UPS console that I spent a few hundred bucks on and have connected to all my AV equipment.

When I goggled looking for what I wanted I found the panamax and the Powerbridge units. Well, of course since they both achieve the same result I was looking for and both are NEC code compliant, I went with the Powerbridge, mainly for cost reasons ($300 vs $50) and I didn't need the cable modules that are allot $$ extra anyway with the panamax.

The MAIN reason the Powerbridge and the Panamax units are different than your standard outlet is they have the ability to allow you to plug into surge protectors and power conditioners (Go to the websites and see how they connect), which I can see a demonstratable picture difference with clean power connected.
Your outlet has "dirty" power and is not protecting your expensive HDTV, unless you have some kind of whole house surge protection.

Hope I answered your question...
(This is actually kinda fun doing all this, I'm learning allot)

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post #19 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVlover45 View Post

Oh boy.... WHY do people think short cuts are a good idea??

Very bad idea in my opinion, ROMEX is not designed to have plugs installed on them and it MAY be an NEC violation, that I'm not sure of, but will try to ask my electricain buddy.
I will bet ROMEX just sticking out of the wall not terminated to an actual outlet receptical is not to code.
....

Do it right or don't do it at all.... the PowerBridge is only $50.00!!! why try to cheapo out on this?

It's not about money, it's more about him not wanting to chop too many more holes in the wall and to save time.

Anyway, I know it's not up to code, but my question was IS IT DANGEROUS? There are no kids in the house, the "looking crappy" thing isn't a concern because the holes are hidden behind the TV and console, and the code thing isn't a concern because my friend doesn't really care and will just spackle the holes when he sells the house.

I totally understand your concern, and I see why it's dangerous to run, say, an extension cord inside a wall, but IS IT DANGEROUS to run Romex through a wall and have it pop out of holes on either end? There is zero exposed wire inside the walls.

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post #20 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

It's not about money, it's more about him not wanting to chop too many more holes in the wall and to save time.

Anyway, I know it's not up to code, but my question was IS IT DANGEROUS? There are no kids in the house, the "looking crappy" thing isn't a concern because the holes are hidden behind the TV and console, and the code thing isn't a concern because my friend doesn't really care and will just spackle the holes when he sells the house.

I totally understand your concern, and I see why it's dangerous to run, say, an extension cord inside a wall, but IS IT DANGEROUS to run Romex through a wall and have it pop out of holes on either end? There is zero exposed wire inside the walls.

hey batpig... (great "name")

Well, in asking my buddy regarding romex sticking out of the wall, he's not thrilled about that and would of course never do it himself, nor attach plugs on to romex.
It would not pass inspection by any electrical inspector, for sure.
However, he can't foresee any actual "danger" in doing it, and no kids and no one else would have the ablility to mess with anything, then do what he wants, it will carry electricity and as long as it's actual romex type wire actually inside the wall, then no danger in that part anyway.

Hope that helped...

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #21 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I totally understand your concern, and I see why it's dangerous to run, say, an extension cord inside a wall, but IS IT DANGEROUS to run Romex through a wall and have it pop out of holes on either end? There is zero exposed wire inside the walls.

If your buddy is going to put holes in the wall, why not just cut a hole for a box and mount it to a stud (connect the other end to an existing outlet)? Good chance that if it's in a logical location for wall-mounting a TV, the next owner will appreciate it already being there (selling point....minor one, but if the prospective buyer ain't so handy, it will score points).

Me, I just let my cord hang, because I'm only renting. If it were my place, everything would be in the wall. It's not hard to do, just make sure you kill power to the outlets on the wall you're working on.

Slan,

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post #22 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 08:43 PM
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Panamax also has something similar to Powerbridge. I use this little known device from Panamax, since most dealers try to sell you the expensive stuff. The Model Number is MIW-POWER. It is a surge protected AC outlet and is fully code compliant. I have used it for both my HT Projector as well as my wall mounted 46" LCD. No problems at all.

http://www.panamax.com/Literature/PD...ct%20Sht-1.pdf

Cost is $49.95 direct from Panamax.

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post #23 of 143 Old 07-31-2007, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTSteve View Post

Panamax also has something similar to Powerbridge. I use this little known device from Panamax, since most dealers try to sell you the expensive stuff. The Model Number is MIW-POWER. It is a surge protected AC outlet and is fully code compliant. I have used it for both my HT Projector as well as my wall mounted 46" LCD. No problems at all.

http://www.panamax.com/Literature/PD...ct%20Sht-1.pdf

Cost is $49.95 direct from Panamax.

Steve

Steve, that's only one side of the system, that's only an expensive recessed outlet, that's not the complete solution that has the more expensive inlet part, that panamax is charging an extra $249.00 for. That part in your link is just an outlet with a slot to add a cable module and can only be used if you "branch" it from another existing outlet. Read the specs, it's nothing as it by itself, other than an expensive electrical outlet to plug your TV into.

The problem I found was the other hard to find end, the inlet, can't find them at the hardware stores, or even very easy on-line by itself.
The Powerbridge is still a better deal as far as I'm concerned, you get the whole kit system, the inlet and the outlet and a connecting power cord with instructions for $49.00... ?? so why is the panamax a better deal? Yeah it says it has surge protection built-in but look at the specs, not much more than a cheap surge strip I use on my kids TV.

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #24 of 143 Old 08-01-2007, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVlover45 View Post

Hey VidPro,

Well since I have no idea what type of outlet you have behind your TV now, I'm just going to guess it's just a standard outlet that is either "branched" with romex from another nearby outlet or a outlet that is like all the others in your home that are connected with other outlets in that room/area and part of the actual circuit at the panel.

Ok, so nothing wrong with that, I'm sure if it was installed by an electrician then it's code compliant.

Ok, the reason I was so excited about finding the Powerbridge, I wanted to have my TV protected by my Pure AV power surge/conditioner/UPS console that I spent a few hundred bucks on and have connected to all my AV equipment.

When I goggled looking for what I wanted I found the panamax and the Powerbridge units. Well, of course since they both achieve the same result I was looking for and both are NEC code compliant, I went with the Powerbridge, mainly for cost reasons ($300 vs $50) and I didn't need the cable modules that are allot $$ extra anyway with the panamax.

The MAIN reason the Powerbridge and the Panamax units are different than your standard outlet is they have the ability to allow you to plug into surge protectors and power conditioners (Go to the websites and see how they connect), which I can see a demonstratable picture difference with clean power connected.
Your outlet has "dirty" power and is not protecting your expensive HDTV, unless you have some kind of whole house surge protection.

Hope I answered your question...
(This is actually kinda fun doing all this, I'm learning allot)

Thanks! I did the electrical work myself. There is an outlet lower on the wall directly under where the set is hanging. I branched off that outlet.

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post #25 of 143 Old 08-01-2007, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Question:

A friend is wall-mounting his TV and is just going to run Romex through a hole in the wall and have it pop out in another spot. In other words, the Romex will not terminate in an outlet at the top/bottom of the run, but will instead just pop out of the wall. He will then add a female plug connector at the top to plug the TV into, and then a male end at the bottom to plug into the surge protector.

I know this is not up to code, but is it actually dangerous? The only cable that is actually in the wall is Romex, he's not running a normal power cord or extension cord in-wall.

This doesn't make any sense at all... If he's going to go this far, why not run romex,14/2 or 12/2 from the existing receptacle to a new one behind the tv with a code approved box. If the wire is going to be there, why not wire into a new box and receptacle?
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post #26 of 143 Old 08-01-2007, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ajs800 View Post

This doesn't make any sense at all... If he's going to go this far, why not run romex,14/2 or 12/2 from the existing receptacle to a new one behind the tv with a code approved box. If the wire is going to be there, why not wire into a new box and receptacle?

It might cost him $5 for a box and plug. You can get remodel boxes for this very purpose.

Doing things right is never easy and usually requires an extra trip or two to the hardware store. People are lazy.
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post #27 of 143 Old 08-01-2007, 02:40 PM
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Bingo, flood has it.

Anyway, he just moved into his place and wants a quick solution that won't be dangerous. There's nothing to prevent him from widening the hole at a later date and actually installing the box and outlet, and he may just do that sometime in the near future. But this is his current plan, and I just want to make sure he's not going to burn his house down.

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post #28 of 143 Old 08-01-2007, 05:01 PM
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He probably won't burn his house down ... hmmmm ... but on second thought anyone lazy enough to try to do it this way ... probably will wind up screwing something up anyway. So, on second thought he just might set SOMETHING on fire.
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post #29 of 143 Old 08-02-2007, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bigmjh View Post

He probably won't burn his house down ... hmmmm ... but on second thought anyone lazy enough to try to do it this way ... probably will wind up screwing something up anyway. So, on second thought he just might set SOMETHING on fire.

Thanks for your comment bigmjh.. I know, I don't understand some people when the short cut and not spending a few dollars to do it right, especially when it comes to safety, meeting code for electrical, even though he's at least using ROMEX in the wall, and even making it look nice. This guy must have some $$ if he has an HDTV and putting it on the wall, so who knows.. Thanks for your words, hopefully others read all these posts and realize short cuts are dumb and dangerous..

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #30 of 143 Old 08-02-2007, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SaltiDawg View Post

Would I be correct if I said that the Power Bridge kit is simple two Old Work boxes, two single recessed clock receptacles, and two face-plates, plus a 36" male-male extension cord? (Romex not included.)

Why buy the "kit" for $50?

Your description is not accurate at all. Did you even look at the website and the pictures?
It does not have 2 recessed "clock receptacles", it has 1 recessed outlet for behind the TV and the other is a recessed POWER-IN for a male-female cord to send power through the system, when plugged in your surge protector. I looked for one and they don't exist in the hardware stores and the one I did find at a electrical supply place wanted $28.00 just for the one part, not attached to any plate.

No, it is not a male-male cord, that would be VERY dangerous, and would not be NEC code compliant!

Why buy the kit for $50.00? One, that's cheap if you ask my opinion.

Well, in my opinion, the other alternative is the panamax for $299.95 that does the same thing basically, with a few add-on items that cost more $$ to take advantage of.
The other, you can't buy the main part of the Powerbridge, the power-in plate at any hardware store I looked for it.

Why try to piece it all together yourself when even if you could find all the parts, you would still need to buy all the parts, drill out plates,,, ect. Wouldn't save much and the Powerbridge kit comes complete with everything all ready to go, with instructions and in different wall plate colors, some you can't find in the stores.

It's like, do you make your own av cables, when you can, but why?

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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