How does the PS2 look on a plasma TV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 08-16-2007, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Just curious. I own the PS2 and was wondering if I buy a plasma TV, will the Picture quality be worse. I have a 27" CRT TV now and am quite happy with the picture with the PS2. Will the plasma distort the picture? Will there be lag? I am considering the Panasonic line of TVs. If I get a ps3, can I play PS 2 games in HD? Thanks.
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post #2 of 31 Old 08-16-2007, 10:11 PM
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I don't think any PS2 games were made in HD resolutions, so no. As far as PQ, I dunno, as I'm looking to get my first plasma in the next few days.
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post #3 of 31 Old 08-16-2007, 10:31 PM
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Generally SD content will look worse on a plasma than on a SD TV. Garbage in -> garbage out as the old saying goes. The larger display and higher resolution only magnify the poor quality of a standard definition source.

Your picture will not look distorted or laggy but it will likely look blocky and grainy. There really isn't much you can do about it unless you purchase a scaler to upscale the SD source into HD but even then it won't look like HD.

My suggestion would just be to live with it and buy a next gen console. The PS3 will allow you to play your PS2 games but again it won't make them HD.
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post #4 of 31 Old 08-16-2007, 10:32 PM
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From my experience (which is limited) it really depends on how good the scaler within the set is.
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post #5 of 31 Old 08-16-2007, 11:23 PM
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i may be wrong here (haven't tried a ps2 on an hdtv yet), but I believe some PS2 games can be set into progressive mode (ie. Okami, Gran Turismo 4, God of War I/II). I assume that a 480p signal would look a lot better than the 480i signal you get on a CRT. Again, I haven't tried this yet, but I'm assuming this is the case since the screenshots of God of War looks WAY better on IGN.com than it did on my CRT tv.
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post #6 of 31 Old 08-16-2007, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPittoni View Post

From my experience (which is limited) it really depends on how good the scaler within the set is.

Exactly. They look a lot better on my current Pio 50" than on my previous Sony 42" (now 6 yrs old). Still, they looked OK even on the Sony. I can't comprehend watching anything on a 27" tube anymore.

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post #7 of 31 Old 08-17-2007, 12:12 PM
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Socom looked like crap on my plasma. It also leaves a black pixel frame around the outside of the screen. I haven't played my PS2 since because I'm afraid of burn-in.
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post #8 of 31 Old 08-17-2007, 12:15 PM
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Socom looked like crap on my plasma. It also leaves a black pixel frame around the outside of the screen. I haven't played my PS2 since because I'm afraid of burn-in.

What type of plasma do you have? I'm curious because I'm in the same boat of owning a PS2 and looking to purchase a plasma (either 5080 or 5010).
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post #9 of 31 Old 08-17-2007, 12:37 PM
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It looks fine, or no worse, on my Panasonic 60u compared to my old 14 year old Hitachi tube using a meager S-Video.
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post #10 of 31 Old 08-17-2007, 01:13 PM
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If you're not too picky about graphics, it will look fine. Because it will be so much bigger you'll see all the jaggies and interlace artifacts from blowing up 480i. Some games can run in 480p, but you need component cables for that.

Also, be aware that almost all PS2 games have significant underscan built it -- this means that they will NOT fill up the entire screen of the plasma, even if they have widescreen support. You will usually get a 1" - 2" black frame on the sides, and sometimes a little bit on the top and bottom too. You can't get rid of this by using the TV's stretch modes, it's built into the signal.

If you can deal with that, the games really do look great and play the same (but bigger!). If you're not a graphics snob it'll be fine, but you'll probably start itching for a next-gen console soon.

I sold my PS2 and grabbed a cheap used xbox instead. If you get the component cables pretty much all xbox games support full 480p, and many good games have widescreen support and sometimes even 720p. And the underscan issue, while still occasionally present, is far less common. IMO if you aren't a serious enough gamer to want to spend $300+ on a next-gen console, the old Xbox has a lot better graphics than PS2.

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post #11 of 31 Old 08-17-2007, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefox1 View Post

Just curious. I own the PS2 and was wondering if I buy a plasma TV, will the Picture quality be worse. I have a 27" CRT TV now and am quite happy with the picture with the PS2. Will the plasma distort the picture? Will there be lag? I am considering the Panasonic line of TVs. If I get a ps3, can I play PS 2 games in HD? Thanks.

If you have an LCD PC monitor with composite or s-video inputs you can plug your PS2 into it and get an idea, plasma will look better because it has internal scaler.
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post #12 of 31 Old 08-17-2007, 07:09 PM
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3-D games like Gran Tourismo 4 look like crap. They are rendered at a rediculous resolution (like 320x240 or LESS). So if you LIKE looking at pixles you can REALLY see them on an HD display. No scaler is going to fix this. Outputting in processive scan doesn't help since the pixels are 3 lines high. I have been playing Forza 2 on Xbox 360 and there is just NO comparison. Maybe someday GT-HD (or GT-5??) for PS3 will come out. The demo looks good.

Games like Guitar Hero and DDR are not so bad. You can see the pixels but they seem to be rendered at 640x480 or close to it.
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post #13 of 31 Old 08-17-2007, 08:14 PM
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i have a ps3 and it looks great on it! especially with game mode on! also ps3's can upconvert ps2 games all the way up to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p now. and i've seen my little cousin play this xxs tricky game or whatever you call on it and it looks great!

Playstation 3
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post #14 of 31 Old 04-13-2014, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IUnknown View Post

3-D games like Gran Tourismo 4 look like crap. They are rendered at a rediculous resolution (like 320x240 or LESS). So if you LIKE looking at pixles you can REALLY see them on an HD display. No scaler is going to fix this. Outputting in processive scan doesn't help since the pixels are 3 lines high. I have been playing Forza 2 on Xbox 360 and there is just NO comparison. Maybe someday GT-HD (or GT-5??) for PS3 will come out. The demo looks good.


Games like Guitar Hero and DDR are not so bad. You can see the pixels but they seem to be rendered at 640x480 or close to it.

Actually, Gran Turismo 4 can run in HD resolutions as high as 1080i if you use component. There were a handful of PS 2 games that could. And the ones that run in 480p look decent on a plasma. "Primal" looks especially nice on a plasma and benefits from the deep black levels.

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post #15 of 31 Old 04-13-2014, 10:52 AM
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Short answer : Keep your CRT!

Long answer :

I've been in same shoes and tried in vain for a solution to make PS2 games look good on non 15hz displays. I've invested in expensive external scalers and it has been a fool's errand. It's much easier just purchasing 32 inch/ 36 inch Sony Wega and call it quits. (They're even free!)

If you're still hell bent on playing PS2 games, here are some recommendations.

1. Get the Samsung F4500! It's the best TV currently being sold for retrogaming needs. It's low native resolution is actually advantageous for a lot of classic gaming consoles. I already own the 1080p Panasonic plasma yet I still long for that display too.

2. HDTV Xploder / GSM is your friend : Modern HDTVs and interlace DO NOT play well. At least putting the games in progressive scan solves a lot of PQ problems.

3. External scaler is recommended : Something like Optoma HD3000 or early PS3 that could upscale PS2 games, or the iscan Pro. My Harman Kardon for example features Silicon Optics scaler and worked relatively well with PS2 games on 1080p Sony LCD, but not on my Panasonic plasma.

No, you will be stuck with borders because of heavy underscan, but not all games do this. (just MANY games)

...even when everything is said and done, it's still going to look inferior to the CRTs so if you have space for a CRT, go for it.
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post #16 of 31 Old 04-13-2014, 05:14 PM
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The bigger question is, why do u still play on ps2?
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post #17 of 31 Old 04-13-2014, 05:26 PM
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As KOF posted above, it depends on the plasma!  I have both the above mentioned Samsung F4500 and a Panasonic Viera 50X60.  I have done some pretty exhaustive testing of the 4500 with retro systems.  If you read the PNxxF4500 thread and look for my posts regarding retro gaming on it it may help you / answer some of your questions.

 

As mentioned, the F4500 is probably going to give you the best image quality of any currently available set (plasma OR LCD) for any resolution 720p and lower.  It especially excels at 480p, so any progressive scan capable PS2 games will look great on it.  480i games, on the other hand, are a different animal.  For still pictures and slow moving graphics it handles 480i gaming content fine, approaching 480p quality even-- the built in line doubler does a fine job there.  My issue with it though, is that for fast moving graphics, especially with darker graphics / scenes, there is some noticable image "ghosting / trailing".  Not sure why this is, but it is there.  Brighter scenes/ graphics look good, much less or no visible ghosting.  

 

In contrast, the Panasonic Viera X60, while losing to the Samsung in almost every other way I can think of, seems to handle 480i in a superior way to the 4500.  When playing a 480i game on it, instead of trying to line double the image to a perfect 480p like the Samsung, the Panasonic actually displays what looks to my eyes like a true 480i image.  You can see the same flicker on it that you see on an SD CRT in 480i mode.  While this may sound inferior to trying to convert it to 480p, the end effect is that it looks remarkably similar to playing the PS2 on an SD CRT.  Also, in doing so, there is absolutely no ghosting on fast moving graphics like there is on the Samsung.  I have tested all 6th generation consoles, and its my opinion that for 480p the Samsung is king, and for 480i the Sammy is acceptable, but the Panny takes the crown.  For you thats probably a moot point though, as the Panny is no longer available.  The 4500 is a better set all around anyway though, so I'd recommend it anyway unless the ONLY thing you'll be doing is playing Dreamcast and PS2 games (in that case see if you can find the X60!!)

 

All this goes out the window though if you are not using a component or RGB cable with your PS2, GC, or Dreamcast.  Do not, I repeat, do not attempt you play any of them with composite or RF (that'd deserve a good slap!) or through any kind of converter (unless you are using a high end one, such as a DVDO iScan, PROVIDED you feed it from your console with component or RGB).  You can get component PS2 cables and Dreamcast SCART RGB cables for pretty cheap off the net.  For GC, if you didnt purchase an official component cable like I did back in the day, you are screwed.  I dont recommend an RGB cable because it wont support 480p.  I recommend getting a Wii with either a Rocketfish or offical Nintendo component cable and use that for your GC games.  It looks identical to the GC with component cable and you can probably get a Wii and cable for less than the cost of the GC cable alone.

 

Hope this helps, if you have any more questions feel free to ask!

 

**EDIT-- Just realized this is a 7 year old topic, now dont I feel stupid?  Anyways, in current days, the above post still applies, so take it as you will!


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post #18 of 31 Old 04-16-2014, 08:51 AM
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Well I don't play it much anymore but PS2 looks great on our 5080 Kuro via Component cables, the only issue is some games don't support widescreen (such as Baldur's gate in the pic below) so you either have to stretch the screen or deal with black bars on the sides, personally I just leave it in 4:3 without stretching.

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post #19 of 31 Old 04-16-2014, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB30 View Post

The bigger question is, why do u still play on ps2?

Because there's nothing like reliving the classics every once in a while. And, I still haven't finished Final Fantasy XII...

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post #20 of 31 Old 04-18-2014, 02:26 PM
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Because there's nothing like reliving the classics every once in a while. And, I still haven't finished Final Fantasy XII...

No one in this forum looks at you with a funny look when we say we watch Metropolis, Godfather, and the Sound of Music. Why should games be different?

I just played Megaman2 on my Sony BVM and I was awed with picture quality. I've never seen a NES game look so good before. (OK, it was actually Rockman2 Complete Works on PSX, only running on PS2 through backwards compatibility. biggrin.gif I prefer PQ from the PS2 more than the PS1, so I use PS2 even for PS1 games. )

I'm going to be purchasing the Sony XS955 soon. With it, my display upgrade for consoles will be complete for a while.

My 20 inch Sony BVM will be covering : NES, Master System, Turbo Grafx, Neo-Geo, Genesis, SNES, Saturn, PSX, N64, non-480p capable Dreamcast, Gamecube, and PS2 games

My 34 inch Sony XS955 will be covering : Dreamcast, Xbox, 480p enabled PS2, Gamecube, Wii, sub 720p resolution Xbox360 and PS3 games

My 50 inch Panasonic S60 plasma will be covering : 720p & 1080p Xbox 360 and PS3 games (provided ABL doesn't get in the way), PS4, Xbox One, PC games

There are a couple of DOS games that's not supported on any of those three displays, so for those games, I'll always bring out my trusty old Sony FW900. biggrin.gif So, I essensially have all my bases covered.

I do want to supplement my BVM with a regular SD Sony Wega as 20 inches is way too small, but I really don't have room for two gigantic CRTs so that'll have to be another day.
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post #21 of 31 Old 04-19-2014, 02:14 PM
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What method are you using to force progressive scan on your PS2?  There is a commercial software called the Xploder HDTV player that supposedly allows it without any hardware or software mods, Im thinking of getting it.  Prog scan 480 is glorious on the 4500, I'd love to get it going for the PS2.

 

I'd love to get a BVM for 240p stuff, I simply dont have a place to put it though, have to stick with what I have!

 

*EDIT found the PS2 Xploder brand new dirt cheap from the Netherlands on Ebay, paid ~13 USD shipped (sounds almost too good to be true), couldnt pass that up.


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post #22 of 31 Old 04-19-2014, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post

What method are you using to force progressive scan on your PS2?  There is a commercial software called the Xploder HDTV player that supposedly allows it without any hardware or software mods, Im thinking of getting it.  Prog scan 480 is glorious on the 4500, I'd love to get it going for the PS2.

I'd love to get a BVM for 240p stuff, I simply dont have a place to put it though, have to stick with what I have!

*EDIT found the PS2 Xploder brand new dirt cheap from the Netherlands on Ebay, paid ~13 USD shipped (sounds almost too good to be true), couldnt pass that up.

Yes, I use HDTV Xploder in conjunction with GSM. They both work well but GSM has some more customizable options and is compatible with interlace only games. With these two, I'd say compatiblity rate is now about 90%.

There are 4 types of PS2 games regards to progressive scan

1. Official 480p games

2. Not supporting 480p but should have, as forced progressive scan looks amazing

3. Completely interlace games that only uses half frame buffer. These games unfortunately cannot be brought back to full frame buffer. Even with GSM, you can only choose between one field and linedouble it, losing essensially half the detail. (eg. Dynasty Warriors 2, The first Jak & Dexter, Virtua Fighter 4, Gran Turismo 3) I play these games on my Sony BVM precisely because of this reason.

4. Pure 240p games like SNK/Capcom fighters and ICO. Using HDTV Xploder usually fails or only displays a quarter of screen. GSM can work wonders where HDTV Xploder fails. GSM can also convert fake 480i games into true 240p for use with my Sony BVM, but not all games work unfortunately. For example, while the King of Fighters 98 UM is 480p capable, it has no options for 240p at all. (only 480i) In such cases, GSM can cut one of the fields to bring it back to original NeoGeo 240p resolution. The Dreamcast is in need of such tools as well because there are so many progressive scan 480p fighters that should have been 240p. I have to use Emotia scan converter for such instances, but it's a pain.
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post #23 of 31 Old 04-20-2014, 05:00 AM
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I used to have both an Emotia and a Super Emotia for getting 240p out of PC emulators, and although they worked pretty well, I found they were too much hassle and sold them on Ebay.  Which mod did you do to get GMS running on the PS2?  I have a PS2 slim.  If the HDTV Xploder  works well enough with the games I have I wont worry about it, but you never know.

 

One game in particular that cheeses me off is Capcom Classics Collection Vol 1. (SF2, FF, GNG, etc.)   For some insane reason it runs its 240p games in 480i mode, and they look dark and fake, even on a CRT. (Ghouls N Ghosts especially).  Im guessing the Xploder probably will have trouble with that title.  Any experience with it?  I really want to get MGS 3 and Gradius V up and running on it, I figure those should be OK.


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post #24 of 31 Old 04-20-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post

I used to have both an Emotia and a Super Emotia for getting 240p out of PC emulators, and although they worked pretty well, I found they were too much hassle and sold them on Ebay.  Which mod did you do to get GMS running on the PS2?  I have a PS2 slim.  If the HDTV Xploder  works well enough with the games I have I wont worry about it, but you never know.

One game in particular that cheeses me off is Capcom Classics Collection Vol 1. (SF2, FF, GNG, etc.)   For some insane reason it runs its 240p games in 480i mode, and they look dark and fake, even on a CRT. (Ghouls N Ghosts especially).  Im guessing the Xploder probably will have trouble with that title.  Any experience with it?  I really want to get MGS 3 and Gradius V up and running on it, I figure those should be OK.

Yes. Very disappointing that CCC runs in 480i and even GSM fails in this case. Forced 240p only works for the menu and once I choose any games, it reverts back to 480i. Force 480p however works. For Street Fighter 2, it's best to just play Saturn/PSX ports. Ditto for Mega Man. HDTV Xplder does work with MGS 3 and Gradius V, although for MGS 3, I still recommend you to play PS3/Xbox 360 ports. At least you get to play at 720p resolution.
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post #25 of 31 Old 04-20-2014, 07:02 PM
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Thanks.  I already am halfway through MGS 3 on PS2, so Im kind of stuck with that version.  This title in particular has a lot of the 480i ghosting I spoke about with the F4500, especially in darker scenes.  480p should alleviate all that.


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post #26 of 31 Old 04-20-2014, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkey Farmer View Post

I don't think any PS2 games were made in HD resolutions, so no. As far as PQ, I dunno, as I'm looking to get my first plasma in the next few days.

Gran Turismo 4 might be the only one that is 1080i-capable.
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post #27 of 31 Old 04-21-2014, 06:22 AM
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Because someone bumped a thread from '07.
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post #28 of 31 Old 04-21-2014, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

Gran Turismo 4 might be the only one that is 1080i-capable.

As I said, there are a handful. I think GT 4 and maybe Valkyrie Profile 2 are the only ones worth a real look. There are many though that support 16:9 and many that support 480p, which actually looks decent when upscaled on a plasma, as I find out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_2_games_with_HD_support

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post #29 of 31 Old 04-26-2014, 08:39 PM
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KOF, I got the HDTV Xploder in today, from the Netherlands, and it wont boot in my PS2 slim.  The disc says "V1.0 PAL" on it, yet the Ebay ad says its not region coded and can be used for PAL or NTSC.  Can you let me know which version of the disc you have, and what model PS2?  If you do have the NTSC version, can you let me know where I can find one as Im having no luck.  In the meanwhile, Ive opened a case on Ebay, curious as to the response.


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post #30 of 31 Old 04-26-2014, 11:35 PM
KOF
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post

KOF, I got the HDTV Xploder in today, from the Netherlands, and it wont boot in my PS2 slim.  The disc says "V1.0 PAL" on it, yet the Ebay ad says its not region coded and can be used for PAL or NTSC.  Can you let me know which version of the disc you have, and what model PS2?  If you do have the NTSC version, can you let me know where I can find one as Im having no luck.  In the meanwhile, Ive opened a case on Ebay, curious as to the response.

Damn, that's unfortunate. HDTV Xploder discs are still subject to Sony's region coding. I bought the NTSC one of course. I have no need for PAL games as I live in Canada.

http://www.superufo.com/products/PS2/PlayStation_1___2_Xploder_HDTV_Player_for_PS2__NTSC_.html

Here's one available in NTSC. It's made by Blaze alright, so this must be the genuine copy.
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