Official Pioneer Kuro Pictures Thread....... - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 7613 Old 10-21-2007, 08:17 PM
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nice pics...

ps. i'm getting a bit of a chuckle over the various "over-saturated" etc. comments. am i to understand that every computer monitor out there is perfectly color adjusted, etc.?

- chris

 

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post #272 of 7613 Old 10-21-2007, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

... i'm getting a bit of a chuckle over the various "over-saturated" etc. comments. am i to understand that every computer monitor out there is perfectly color adjusted, etc.?

Umm, mine actually is, but not not sure what that has to do my comments. You just need a reasonably well working one, and reasonably good vision, to see that something is wrong. As I said, it may be that the shots are a bit off, but there are some problems there.

Anyway, if you like them, good for you and your taste. But the chuckle is a bit much.
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post #273 of 7613 Old 10-21-2007, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

nice pics...

ps. i'm getting a bit of a chuckle over the various "over-saturated" etc. comments. am i to understand that every computer monitor out there is perfectly color adjusted, etc.?

indeed!

"Oh hi, your Porsche 997 GT3 did great on the nurburing, but what's up with rear view mirror not being exactly oval shaped? and how come the suspension is a bit stiff when I'm driving over some bumps? "
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post #274 of 7613 Old 10-21-2007, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

Umm, mine actually is, but not not sure what that has to do my comments. You just need a reasonably well working one, and reasonably good vision, to see that something is wrong. As I said, it may be that the shots are a bit off, but there are some problems there.

Anyway, if you like them, good for you and your taste. But the chuckle is a bit much.

take ourselves a bit seriously, do we? if i had LMAO, that might have been a bit much, a chuckle is mere amusement...

i'm not saying that i like them or that i don't... i'm implying that to judge whether or not color saturation, detail, etc. is "correct" based off a picture that you don't know:

- the ccd quality in the device taking the picture
- the resolution it was taken at
- the resolution it was stored at
- the software that was used to transfer the picture and manipulate/save it
- the lighting it was under
- etc.

is being a tad presumptuous, even if you monitor IS perfectly adjusted... i don't know about anyone else here, but i don't take perfect pictures...

chill.

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post #275 of 7613 Old 10-21-2007, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MarcDBecker View Post

pics of my 5080 and BDI Novia 8429 (new cocoa stain, which scored high on the WAF)

Nice pics. Do you see any reflections in the glass top of the 8429?
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post #276 of 7613 Old 10-21-2007, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

...i'm implying that to judge whether or not color saturation, detail, etc. is "correct" based off a picture that you don't know:

...[taken out because of bad grammar (chuckle]...

is being a tad presumptuous, even if you monitor IS perfectly adjusted... i don't know about anyone else here, but i don't take perfect pictures...

Umm, then the purpose for which this thread is taking up space is...? Mutual admiration of Kuro aficionados, perhaps

Anyway, you can kind of tell a bit from the photo, apart from the over-saturation: The hill shadow is not as dark as the frame, yet there is ho detail inside, there is something weird going on with the processing in the lower right corner, either from the CCD or (much more likely,) from the TV.

Anyway, not saying the TV is bad, but just looked at the thread and at the picture, and made an idle comment regarding some fairly obvious items I saw. Nothing to cause a chuckle really, but I guess some of us are easily amused.

As you say, chill. And cheers.
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post #277 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 04:24 AM
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only one Q @ kuro makers,

when kuro 3D displays ?
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post #278 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 06:46 AM
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"Nice pics. Do you see any reflections in the glass top of the 8429?"

I haven't found this to be an issue yet, given the dark/blackish color of the glass, its not that reflective. I have to say I'm almost as impressed with the Novia as I am with the 5080. The build quality is great, the hidden wheels make it easy to access, the wire management is well thought out, and their is plenty of ventilation so that my receiver (Arcam AVR200) won't overheat, and my center speaker (PSB Image 8C) actually fits in the center draw. While it definitely was expensive, I don't have a regret paying what I did.
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post #279 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 07:06 AM
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[quote=jeffrey r;11964441]Ok guys. Been on the forum for years, but this is my first time taking pictures for the forum or posting pictures. These are of the Pioneer 6010; stand is Furnitech FT72cc; pics are from Planet Earth HD-DVD, Happy Feet HD-DVD, and Transformers HD-DVD, all through Toshiba HD-A2 connected with HDMI. Camera is Pentax DSLR with 50mm lens, all shots are handheld with no flash. The bookshelf speakers were temporary Onix X-LS, and have been replaced by Axiom M60 floorstanders. Any questions, let me know. So bear with me if this doesn't work, but here goes.

Looks a little oversaturated, red push i would say. Here's a comparison




QUOTE]
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post #280 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

Very pretty, but these seem a bit over-saturated to me. The one I've left in the quote is just an example. Look at those greens and that rainbow.... And it may be the shot, but there is no detail in the hill's shadow. And, what's with the random colors on the water in the lower right corner?


Yeah , you are right. Most people tend to keep color out of the box settings, even screenshots i seen that people have said they calibrated using discs they still seem oversaturated. Pretty ez fix, turn the color down.
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post #281 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 08:02 AM
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Is there any chance someone could post pics of their Kuro pre- and post- ISF calibration? I know it's a long shot, but I'm curious about the difference and if it's worth the extra money. D-Nice's settings are very good and I'm wondering if it's worth another several hundred dollars to get the TV calibrated. Would I see that much of a difference? I have not seen an ISF-calibrated TV, and I've even heard that some people don't like the look as much after calibration.

Thanks to anyone who can oblige my weird request.
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post #282 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loco View Post

Is there any chance someone could post pics of their Kuro pre- and post- ISF calibration? I know it's a long shot, but I'm curious about the difference and if it's worth the extra money. D-Nice's settings are very good and I'm wondering if it's worth another several hundred dollars to get the TV calibrated. Would I see that much of a difference? I have not seen an ISF-calibrated TV, and I've even heard that some people don't like the look as much after calibration.

Thanks to anyone who can oblige my weird request.


The thing is loco you should adjust the picture to how you like it. Once you know what you like you should be 100% happy with how you adjust the picture. I say do it yourself and try to get the picture the best you feel using all the controls on your tv. But if you have been watching unaccurate to hot colors for so long you might not like what is technically accurate if you do get a calibration. I never seen a isf myself so i cant even say if they are accurate, i have some doubts. But i have my own opinion whats accurate, and that all that should matter if it looks good enough to me.. If it dont than i would call for help, or return the tv. And you should be able to get a very satisfiying picture with a pioneer kuro with the controls. If you prefer the colors stronger watch it that way. As long as your happy with the pic thats all that matters.
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post #283 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 08:59 AM
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My contribution to the thread...

A pic of my 6010FD + audio setup:

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post #284 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

The thing is loco you should adjust the picture to how you like it. Once you know what you like you should be 100% happy with how you adjust the picture. I say do it yourself and try to get the picture the best you feel using all the controls on your tv. But if you have been watching unaccurate to hot colors for so long you might not like what is technically accurate if you do get a calibration. I never seen a isf myself so i cant even say if they are accurate, i have some doubts. But i have my own opinion whats accurate, and that all that should matter if it looks good enough to me.. If it dont than i would call for help, or return the tv. And you should be able to get a very satisfiying picture with a pioneer kuro with the controls. If you prefer the colors stronger watch it that way. As long as your happy with the pic thats all that matters.

Thanks Zues! That's kind of how I've always felt. I just thought seeing comparisons might be helpful pushing me in one direction or the other. My inclination is to save the money, at least for now.
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post #285 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 10:03 AM
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[quote=Zues;11976893]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrey r View Post

Ok guys. Been on the forum for years, but this is my first time taking pictures for the forum or posting pictures. These are of the Pioneer 6010; stand is Furnitech FT72cc; pics are from Planet Earth HD-DVD, Happy Feet HD-DVD, and Transformers HD-DVD, all through Toshiba HD-A2 connected with HDMI. Camera is Pentax DSLR with 50mm lens, all shots are handheld with no flash. The bookshelf speakers were temporary Onix X-LS, and have been replaced by Axiom M60 floorstanders. Any questions, let me know. So bear with me if this doesn't work, but here goes.

Looks a little oversaturated, red push i would say. Here's a comparison


QUOTE]

This second posting is so far from accurate it's not funny. The original shot is much closer to what the intended and actual feel for the movie is despite a bit of over-saturation. The original poster could probably pull their color down a few notches and be more accurate, but I'm sure for other content like sports the additional saturation helps. As long as you like what you're looking at it doesn't matter.
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post #286 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 10:46 AM
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[quote=Manchild;11978375]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchild View Post


This second posting is so far from accurate it's not funny. The original shot is much closer to what the intended and actual feel for the movie is despite a bit of over-saturation. The original poster could probably pull their color down a few notches and be more accurate, but I'm sure for other content like sports the additional saturation helps. As long as you like what you're looking at it doesn't matter.


You could be right manchild, i have not seen this movie so i dont know how it looks on my own monitors, but when every movie looks red, lobster face cast, then you know for sure there is a problem. I've seen the same exact thing on other plasmas, which is why i compared.. I guess it's possible the director added a red cast to the picture? Or it could be just certain scenes. I know i've been wrong on a gladiator screenshot where the person had actual make up on that got me when i viewed it on my own tv.
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post #287 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 10:55 AM
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[quote=Zues;11978815]
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Originally Posted by Manchild View Post



You could be right manchild, i have not seen this movie so i dont know how it looks on my own monitors, but when every movie looks red, lobster face cast, then you know for sure there is a problem. I've seen the same exact thing on other plasmas, which is why i compared.. I guess it's possible the director added a red cast to the picture? Or it could be just certain scenes. I know i've been wrong on a gladiator screenshot where the person had actual make up on that got me when i viewed it on my own tv.

In those instances I completely agree. I don't think the user's display is 100% accurate, but the skin tones in Transformers aren't the most accurate I've seen despite their sharpness, clarity and shadow detail. I guess my only point was that if he had taken captures of CSI: Miami it would look pretty ridiculous too, but we all know it is shot and edited differently then "true" REC709 material. Now that you've brought it up though I'm curious how different my post-cal set is on those Megan Fox scenes. I'll take some shots tonight and see (man won't it be embarassing if I have extensive red push too?)...
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post #288 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAYTA View Post

My contribution to the thread...

A pic of my 6010FD + audio setup:


DO you actually have the center balanced on top of the 6010? Or is it attached to the wall in some way.....I have never "hung" my bigfoot on the wall due to size and porting.......just curious...
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post #289 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAYTA View Post

My contribution to the thread...

A pic of my 6010FD + audio setup:


Who is the woman you use as a background?

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post #290 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:07 AM
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Re: the general nature of my pics, as I stated in my original post, I've never posted pics in a forum before. So nothing has been confirmed as the "ideal" or "best" method with my camera, settings, software, etc.

I will say that my Pentax has 2 jpeg settings, natural and bright. Natural puts out a slightly soft image that is good if you like to post-process your photos. Bright puts out a picture that will require little to no post-processing, be sharper, have more pop, and will over-saturate to some degree, etc. I believe I had last left my DSLR in bright mode, as I just don't have the time to process all my digital photos. So these pics were taken with bright mode on, hence the oversaturation.

So even without any other factors in the mix here, that would be the primary cause of any unnatural colors. These pics should not be taken as the last word in reflecting the Kuro's picture, but obviously they show what it is generally capable of. Next time I do this, I would likely use the natural mode to tone things down a bit, even if the pics come off a bit softer.

My settings are D-Nice's HD-DVD settings. Thanks for the input though.
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post #291 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:09 AM
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Take some skin tome pics. I know the kuro has the capability looking accurate, tone the colors down if the screens look too red. Ez fix that can be proven through screenshots.
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post #292 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:15 AM
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Yep...will do. Also note, as JeffR has above, that I'm using a point-and-click auto-focus digital camera which I'm sure isn't ideal. My pics on the previous page I thought came out alright however. I have a fair number of HD-DVDs and will find some with good skin tones.
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post #293 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrey r View Post

Re: the general nature of my pics, as I stated in my original post, I've never posted pics in a forum before. So nothing has been confirmed as the "ideal" or "best" method with my camera, settings, software, etc.

I will say that my Pentax has 2 jpeg settings, natural and bright. Natural puts out a slightly soft image that is good if you like to post-process your photos. Bright puts out a picture that will require little to no post-processing, be sharper, have more pop, and will over-saturate to some degree, etc. I believe I had last left my DSLR in bright mode, as I just don't have the time to process all my digital photos. So these pics were taken with bright mode on, hence the oversaturation.

So even without any other factors in the mix here, that would be the primary cause of any unnatural colors. These pics should not be taken as the last word in reflecting the Kuro's picture, but obviously they show what it is generally capable of. Next time I do this, I would likely use the natural mode to tone things down a bit, even if the pics come off a bit softer.

I'm not trying to argue jeffry but i dont think you can blame the camera for oversaturation. Contrast flucuations yes, some will add deeper blacks to the pics, but capturing color, i would say a digital camera will capture color very accurately 100% of the time. I have never seen a picture, 35mm, etc, add unatural skin tone color to a picture. I could be wrong though.
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post #294 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:32 AM
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My 5080 had a high red setting out of the box. Perhaps this is what is happening with the tv in question?
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post #295 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by wpwj40e View Post

DO you actually have the center balanced on top of the 6010? Or is it attached to the wall in some way.....I have never "hung" my bigfoot on the wall due to size and porting.......just curious...

Yeah, I'd place a 45-50 lbs speaker on a 4" thin, $5k plasma .

What I did was I bought a TV wall mount for a 20" CRT TV and placed the Bigfoot on that. The wall mount arm curves out in a L, so it sits about 22" away from the wall and the port plugs are not blocked in any way. I also placed the Bigfoot upside down to keep the tweeter as close to the screen as possible. It was kind of a PITA to get the wall mount positioned perfectly level in relation to the TV, but believe me when I say it works really well. I'm also running a second center underneath my 6010 (Mirage OMC3) which really helps anchor the dialogue to the screen.
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post #296 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Who is the woman you use as a background?

victoria silvstedt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Silvstedt
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post #297 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maynerd View Post

My 5080 had a high red setting out of the box. Perhaps this is what is happening with the tv in question?

All non-Elites have a red bias to the grayscale that you can only get rid of by ISF calibration. The Elites have the same red bias, however it is very easy to remedy it thru the user menu.
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post #298 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 12:28 PM
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All non-Elites have a red bias to the grayscale that you can only get rid of by ISF calibration. The Elites have the same red bias, however it is very easy to remedy it thru the user menu.

This is nuts.... Can it be fixed by oneself, even if the service menus must be accessed?
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post #299 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I'm not trying to argue jeffry but i dont think you can blame the camera for oversaturation. Contrast flucuations yes, some will add deeper blacks to the pics, but capturing color, i would say a digital camera will capture color very accurately 100% of the time. I have never seen a picture, 35mm, etc, add unatural skin tone color to a picture. I could be wrong though.


With all due respect, it is well documented that Pentax gives you the option to produce highly saturated, sharp, bright images in the camera if you so choose by using the "bright" mode. This is from Pentax's website, but run a google check and you'll see plenty of discussions about it.

"May I change the color tone of a picture?
Yes, you may change the color tone of picture by selecting Bright or Natural.
Bright: Images are finished brightly with contrast and sharpness
Natural: Images are finished naturally and suitable for retouching"

But in any case, whether I used the bright mode or natural mode, one can process any picture to their liking using software just as someone de-saturated one of my pictures above. So saturation can be a function of the camera processing itself, or software. In bright mode, my camera will oversaturate. It simply is what it is.

Maybe this is why I never posted pics before...
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post #300 of 7613 Old 10-22-2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

This is nuts.... Can it be fixed by oneself, even if the service menus must be accessed?

It can be fixed if one knows how to use the SM. Otherwise no.
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