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post #7501 of 7523 Old 07-22-2014, 07:02 AM
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Life is beautiful, we live in beautiful country aillor peace to war there, enjoy your Kuro ...
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post #7502 of 7523 Old 07-22-2014, 07:05 AM
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Rob, I promise you to no comment more on your Black
If you want you can still judge ugly my pics, it does no matter. Just fun

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post #7503 of 7523 Old 07-22-2014, 02:01 PM
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No fighting amongst Kuro owners please !
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post #7504 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbalo View Post
This is a real KRP 500A Black measure on Near Black (Standard Windows 11.11% Ted's pattern)
Y min = 0.0016 cd/m2
Hello, I just saw your posted chart picture (with peak output around 100cdm2) that came from my CalMAN 5 Workflows of my calibration disk you are using and as a personal suggestion for you plasma:

the recommendation of setting your target peak luminance to about 100-120 cd/m2 target doesn't say which pattern size to use to set that peak output for plasma displays.

For example when you will display 10% window you will see 120cdm2, with the same contrast setting if you display a 20% window you will see 100cdm/2, if you display full field you will see 60cdm/2.....so the target for plasma is to get as more cd/m2 as possible for KURO's..... so add more contrast until you will be out blue channel, that will be the first color channel that will be out of 'gas'.

To my home setup I have around 140cdm2 with 100% white 11.11% window pattern with my KURO calibrated using 3D LUT correction table loaded to eeColor 3D LUT Box with 21-Point Cube (9.261) measured and corrected color points and there is no problem with that peak output at a total dark environment since the panel will never output 140cd/m2 with real content displayed.

You will have greater contrast ration also.

If you try it post your impressions to a related KURO thread if you like.

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post #7505 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
... For example when you will display 10% window you will see 120cdm2, with the same contrast setting if you display a 20% window you will see 100cdm/2, if you display full field you will see 60cdm/2.....so the target for plasma is to get as more cd/m2 as possible for KURO's..... so add more contrast until you will be out blue channel, that will be the first color channel that will be out of 'gas'...
Thanks Ted, I know perfectly well that it is so, but my target for plasma is not to get more cd/m2 as possible for Kuro's, but to get a good dynamic range without side effects.
Otherwise, calibrating at higher contrast levels the dynamic range will have no way to breathe properly ... In fact the ABL intervention crush the high levels of luminance making indistinguishable from each other (of course this is seen in scenes with high-high APL), causing sunburns and unwanted changes in color.

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post #7506 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbalo View Post
Thanks Ted, I know perfectly well that it is so, but my target for plasma is not to get more cd/m2 as possible for Kuro's, but to get a good dynamic range without side effects.
Otherwise, calibrating at higher contrast levels the dynamic range will have no way to breathe properly ... In fact the ABL intervention crush the high levels of luminance making indistinguishable from each other (of course this is seen in scenes with high-high APL), causing sunburns and unwanted changes in color.
Hello, when you have some free time, do the following test:

Display a full field 100% White Pattern; measure it and track down your peak luminance level using your KURO with contrast level @ 40,39,38,37,36,35,34.

Later do the same by measuring again you peak white with the above contrast settings but now by using a 11.11% Window Pattern.

After that compare the luminance differences, you will see that with full field patterns the difference are very small or it's the same luminance level but will 11.11% the differences are bigger.

Look these screen captures below:

I used LightSpace CMS to take Quick Profiling measurements to generate these RGB Separation Charts.

The definition of 'good RGB separation' is when the grey scale is an exact sum of the individual RGB values, combined with colour channel independence, where changing the value of one colour channel has no effect on the other two colour channels - there is no cross-talk between the colour channels. Please note this is not a simple RGB/3 calculation, and can vary for each and every individual grey scale value.

You need 21-Point WRGB Readings to generate this RGB Separation Chart, it's different from RGB Balance Chart that requires only 21-Point Grayscale.

These are pre-3D LUT Profiling reports, I took them to see if by reducing the peak luminance it improves the channel separation and less crosstalk. If the display will be out of 'gas' it will be visible using these charts.

By viewing these charts...as closer to Black line are the RGB lines then it's better performance. As you see there very small changes if you count the meter repeatability / display stability over the time.

There is no improvement by reducing the peak to 120 cdm/2 since the panel can output 135 cd/m2 with no problem.

Contrast Setting @ 31, Peak Output ~120.9 cd/m2



Contrast Setting @ 32, Peak Output ~124.8 cd/m2



Contrast Setting @ 33, Peak Output ~128.1 cd/m2



Contrast Setting @ 34, Peak Output ~131.7 cd/m2



Contrast Setting @ 35, Peak Output ~135.0 cd/m2


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post #7507 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 09:45 AM
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1. Ted, are you referring to ISF or Pure for contrast level?
2. I don't see your charts ...
3. About "RGB separation", our friend "biasi" has already tested last April, with his Klein-K10, my KRP + Radiance

P.S. You don't touch RGB-Low sliders, right?

Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Sony BDP-S790 - Popcorn Hour A210
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Last edited by Zimbalo; 07-23-2014 at 09:53 AM.
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post #7508 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbalo View Post
1. Ted, are you referring to ISF or Pure for contrast level?
2. I don't see your charts ...
3. About "RGB separation", our friend "biasi" has already tested last April, with his Klein-K10, my KRP + Radiance
1. ISF Mode

2. Try these links: (I can see the images here, it happens some times from postimage.org to be invisible to some countries)

Contrast Setting @ 31, Peak Output ~120.9 cd/m2
Contrast Setting @ 32, Peak Output ~124.8 cd/m2
Contrast Setting @ 33, Peak Output ~128.1 cd/m2
Contrast Setting @ 34, Peak Output ~131.7 cd/m2
Contrast Setting @ 35, Peak Output ~135.0 cd/m2

3. Great friend

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post #7509 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 09:59 AM
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Ted, about Gamma, do you use 2.20?
You don't touch RGB-Low sliders, right?

Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
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post #7510 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbalo View Post
Ted, about Gamma, do you use 2.20?
You don't touch RGB-Low sliders, right?
No use of any RGB-Low Sliders, correct.

I prefer Power-law Gamma 2.25.

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post #7511 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 10:25 AM
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post #7512 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
Looks like PG deleted all his pictures from this thread.
PG moved on to OLED.
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post #7513 of 7523 Old 07-23-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tubby497 View Post
PG moved on to OLED.
How do you know?

What does that have to do with deleting his pics from the thread?

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post #7514 of 7523 Old 07-24-2014, 05:30 AM
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OLED is still not at the top, have to wait a little as it is finalized ...
It is still earlier prototype ...

Pioneer LX 5090H + Démo G5  C+ Csat HD + DD et la TNT + Pioneer LX55 + Sony BD-S790 ... Pana 50 ST60 + PS3 BD + Pioneer BD320 ... CRT Philips 32 PW 9520 P+2 DNM + TNT Thomson DTI 652 + Pioneer DV 380 ... BR 137 .

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post #7515 of 7523 Old 07-24-2014, 09:32 AM
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...and way too expensive!

My favorite toy
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post #7516 of 7523 Old 07-24-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
How do you know?

What does that have to do with deleting his pics from the thread?
Avforums.
His tweaked Kuro pictures look inferior to recently acquired OLED, so he deleted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urga View Post
OLED is still not at the top, have to wait a little as it is finalized ...
It is still earlier prototype ...
OLED is at the top based on picture quality. Of course there are some issues that needs to be addressed. However, great start for 1st gen.

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...and way too expensive!
Prices are going down fast. 2nd gen msrp $5000.
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post #7517 of 7523 Old 07-24-2014, 09:44 PM
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$5000 is more than I want to spend on a 55"!
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My favorite toy
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post #7518 of 7523 Old 07-25-2014, 12:49 AM
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La Caravane de Feu ( BD ) ...

LX55/Kuro :







Pioneer LX 5090H + Démo G5  C+ Csat HD + DD et la TNT + Pioneer LX55 + Sony BD-S790 ... Pana 50 ST60 + PS3 BD + Pioneer BD320 ... CRT Philips 32 PW 9520 P+2 DNM + TNT Thomson DTI 652 + Pioneer DV 380 ... BR 137 .

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Pioneer LX 5090H + Démo G5  C+ Csat HD + DD et la TNT + Pioneer LX55 + Sony BD-S790 ... Pana 50 ST60 + PS3 BD + Pioneer BD320 ... CRT Philips 32 PW 9520 P+2 DNM + TNT Thomson DTI 652 + Pioneer DV 380 ... BR 137 .

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post #7520 of 7523 Old 07-25-2014, 02:34 AM
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Hugo Cabret - KRP/Oppo BDP-93


















Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Sony BDP-S790 - Popcorn Hour A210
Video processor: Lumagen Radiance XS - Probe: i1Display Pro - Software: HCFR - Calman 5 Enthusiast
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post #7521 of 7523 Old 07-25-2014, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubby497 View Post
Avforums.
His tweaked Kuro pictures look inferior to recently acquired OLED, so he deleted.
.
That doesn't seem to be true reading his post-

http://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-e...874952/page-30

He still likes the kuro better. And he mentions something I'm hearing for the second time about OLED. The picture doesn't look like a plasma, it looks like a high end LCD with 0 blacks. That's one thing I was worried about with OLED. I like an analog looking picture not artificial and too sharp. A poster in that thread even said if you're looking for a analog image you're looking at the wrong technology.


He did some more testing and is now using it but it's not vastly superior to his kuro according to him.

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Last edited by saprano; 07-25-2014 at 06:26 AM.
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post #7522 of 7523 Old 07-25-2014, 08:26 AM
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Thats a nice read , Thanks !
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post #7523 of 7523 Old 07-26-2014, 02:39 AM
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La migliore offerta (The best offer) - KRP/Oppo BDP-93














Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Sony BDP-S790 - Popcorn Hour A210
Video processor: Lumagen Radiance XS - Probe: i1Display Pro - Software: HCFR - Calman 5 Enthusiast
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