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post #7861 of 7883 Old 04-21-2015, 10:27 AM
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Lucy on a 3D LUT Calibrated KRP-500A


Interstellar test shot

this photo was just a test to look for bandinng and other artifacts in the image and comparing it to the new 960V 4K OLED
as you can see its a glowing washed out mess to the left.
thats is because interstellar doesnt have 0 blacks.
0 black starts at video level 7 of 255.

they left the letterbars alone so they have 0 blacks but not the movie itself.
so if you see raised blacklevels on your kuro with interstellar dont worry
its just from the movie

here are some horror examples how that scene looks on most of the 960V OLEDs
https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...#post-22007722
https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...#post-22005655

infinity contrast right
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Last edited by all clear; 04-21-2015 at 10:30 AM.
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post #7862 of 7883 Old 04-21-2015, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all clear View Post
Lucy on a 3D LUT Calibrated KRP-500A


Interstellar test shot

this photo was just a test to look for bandinng and other artifacts in the image and comparing it to the new 960V 4K OLED
as you can see its a glowing washed out mess to the left.
thats is because interstellar doesnt have 0 blacks.
0 black starts at video level 7 of 255.

they left the letterbars alone so they have 0 blacks but not the movie itself.
so if you see raised blacklevels on your kuro with interstellar dont worry
its just from the movie

here are some horror examples how that scene looks on most of the 960V OLEDs
https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...#post-22007722
https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...#post-22005655

infinity contrast right
Wow, if those pictures accurately capture the banding on the LOLED (as I like to call them)... yikes...
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post #7863 of 7883 Old 04-21-2015, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all clear View Post
here are some horror examples how that scene looks on most of the 960V OLEDs
https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...#post-22007722
https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...#post-22005655
Lucy is toony.
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post #7864 of 7883 Old 04-21-2015, 05:12 PM
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Wow, if those pictures accurately capture the banding on the LOLED (as I like to call them)... yikes...
i think the cell phone cameras that most of them are using overdoes the problem.
the second picture with the massive noise in it looks like an nightmare.
https://www.avforums.com/attachments...74-jpg.576791/
not all of it can be camera noise or?

they seem to handle old movies with alot of noise in them pretty bad.
or if its something with the upscaling that doesnt work
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post #7865 of 7883 Old 04-21-2015, 07:58 PM
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I don't know what picture mode is being used on the OLED, but that Lucy pic looks like crap compared to the kuro.

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post #7866 of 7883 Old 04-22-2015, 12:06 PM
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My Lucy




Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Popcorn Hour A210 - Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: i1Display Pro profiled by JETI Specbos 1211-L - Software: Calman 5 Enthusiast
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post #7867 of 7883 Old 04-23-2015, 06:26 PM
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Same scenes here but with a 3D LUT Lucy




here are the HDR files if someone wants to try them in photoshop
30mb of dynamic range
http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb192876/Lucy1.hdr
http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb192876/Lucy2.hdr

select Images/Adjustment/Exposure
increase Exposure and and set gamma correction to around +2 and you will be able to spot the stand on the tv in the dark.
the only ghost you will see is the kuro....i hope

Last edited by all clear; 04-23-2015 at 06:33 PM.
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post #7868 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 01:20 AM
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My 3D LUT

Color Checker Fleshtones

Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Popcorn Hour A210 - Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: i1Display Pro profiled by JETI Specbos 1211-L - Software: Calman 5 Enthusiast

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post #7869 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 02:14 AM
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My 3D LUT
Color Checker Fleshtones
]
yes the skintones are almost identical. ☺
is that with pure mode ?
Also how many color points do you measure ?
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post #7870 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 02:17 AM
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ISF - Calman 3D LUT, 1000 patches - 47 minutes

Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Popcorn Hour A210 - Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: i1Display Pro profiled by JETI Specbos 1211-L - Software: Calman 5 Enthusiast
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post #7871 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 04:23 AM
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ISF - Calman 3D LUT, 1000 patches - 47 minutes
welcome to the 3D LUT club
i noticed now that you have got the eecolor box
did you see any improvement over the usual 1D calibration then?
im about to get the eecolor lut box here also

the pictures above is from 3151 patches


total time 2.5 hours

Last edited by all clear; 04-24-2015 at 04:32 AM.
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post #7872 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 04:29 AM
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Not substantially.


Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Popcorn Hour A210 - Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: i1Display Pro profiled by JETI Specbos 1211-L - Software: Calman 5 Enthusiast
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post #7873 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 05:06 AM
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My Kuro Black







Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Popcorn Hour A210 - Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: i1Display Pro profiled by JETI Specbos 1211-L - Software: Calman 5 Enthusiast
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post #7874 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 05:22 AM
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Not substantially.
i think you need to step up with the colorpatches count
3151 patches that i used now is classified as "fast profiling" with the Dolby Reference monitors
i could see an improvement from 700 patches to 3000 but not from 3000 to 9000.
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post #7875 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 05:50 AM
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Too much time!
With many patches it takes Klein K10. The i1Display Pro "tires", result is not good.
I already tried.

Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Popcorn Hour A210 - Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
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post #7876 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 06:15 AM
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Too much time!
With many patches it takes Klein K10. The i1Display Pro "tires", result is not good.
I already tried.
the K10-A is not that much faster than the i1D3
1000 test patches
K10-A 18min
i1D3 25min
i1Display Pro - Klein K10-a tracking

result is not good with more patches?
i must disagree here
thats the point with 3D LUT calibration that you measure inside the gamut.
the more you can cover and measure the better it is with more precision to the colorgrades.
but then if you seen any improvement or not after a specific count is another story.
but its definitely not worse to use more patches.

here are some information about the different 3D cube sizes
http://www.displaycalibrations.com/c...mparisons.html

1000 color points :
Quote:
"This is the minimum accepted cube resolution size for critical color-accurate profiling of your display."

4913 color points:
Quote:
This is the post-production industry's 'defacto' cube resolution size for critical color-accurate display profiling

9261 color points:
Quote:
This cube size provides the post-production industry's most accurate and critical color-accurate display profiling.

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post #7877 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 06:57 AM
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1. I said: result is not good with i1D3 with many patches
2. Do you think that your eyes can see differences between dE 0.32 and dE 0.22?
3. I don't use dispcalgui + HTPC
4. If you don't notice difference between i1D3 and Klein, it means that you haven't experience in calibration
5. If you are so happy, you can also create a LUT with 10000 patches. Good work!

Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Popcorn Hour A210 - Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: i1Display Pro profiled by JETI Specbos 1211-L - Software: Calman 5 Enthusiast
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post #7878 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbalo View Post
1. I said: result is not good with i1D3 with many patches
2. Do you think that your eyes can see differences between dE 0.32 and dE 0.22?
3. I don't use dispcalgui + HTPC
4. If you don't notice difference between i1D3 and Klein, it means that you haven't experience in calibration
5. If you are so happy, you can also create a LUT with 10000 patches. Good work!
Ok
show me the result from using many patches with the i1D3.
what is not good ?

just one example
2: how do you know that 10.5% saturation color point at x0.324 y0.555 with 15.13% luminance has a dE of 0.32?
you cant know it until you measure it.
you can have thousands of colorpoints that is not lined up and clips over the next color point with much higher dE.
these small errors will cause banding and bad color grading.
add thousands of corrections and you will have near perfect colorgrading.
that result will increase the 3d depth in the picture

that was what i noticed from 700 to 3000 color points
more 3d depth in the picture with better contrast

3: it doesnt matter what program you use
the 3D Lut is created in the same way with all 3d lut programs. (there is a thread somewhere about it..cant find it now)
no difference between calman or dispcalGUI

4: as from the test and comparison above you can clearly see that the differences are only minimal between the K10-A and the i1D3.
its nothing new that the i1D3 performs close to the K10-A
what you mostly pay for with the K10-A is the speed and that it can read lower.

5: no need to measure more patches here
as from the quotes 9000 patches will give you reference picture quality on your tv.

maybe its time for more pictures instead what do you say

Last edited by all clear; 04-24-2015 at 01:04 PM.
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post #7879 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 03:27 PM
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So you read 16,7 million colors? Bye bye, see you next year!

Plasma TV: Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A - Pioneer Kuro LX-508D - Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 - Popcorn Hour A210 - Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
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post #7880 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 05:32 PM
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So you read 16,7 million colors? Bye bye, see you next year!
no

back on topic
Guardians of the Galaxy









one HDR file this time from the last image
http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb192876/Guardian1.hdr
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post #7881 of 7883 Old 04-24-2015, 06:42 PM
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That movie needs to go on sale already. I've been waiting forever to watch it.

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post #7882 of 7883 Old Today, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
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i think you need to step up with the colorpatches count
3151 patches that i used now is classified as "fast profiling" with the Dolby Reference monitors
i could see an improvement from 700 patches to 3000 but not from 3000 to 9000.
Hi, in 8-bit systems, the allocation of 17 nodes per component (17-Point Cube) proves that is best trade off between display/meter/processor hardware / measuring time / display stability and overall quality, that's why that size is commonly used at pro industry. Now by ultra fast meters like Klein K-10A, 21-Point Cube requires less time than before (about 1H 30M in total), and it has become the standard used size.

The most important is the total volumetric accuracy for the best final results, consumer displays has not so linear tracking to all it's areas, so a large cube with a profiling sequence that 21-Point Cube (9.261 Color Points) grid-based with equal spaced RGB values will cover all potential colors equally and give the most accurate correction.

Ever Dolby Monitor which designed to be reference needs 3D LUT profiling to meet the tight tolerance in color errors that required for critical color reproduction for movie grading in post-production facilities.

Dolby Monitor PRM-4200/4220 has 2x 65-Point 3D LUT Tables slots, same size like eeColor 3D LUT Box features (which has 6 memories).

I'm watching movies from my 17-Point Cube Calibrated KURO from 2012 with eeColor, and with 21-Point Cube calibrated from January 2014 till now, I can say that there is no way back to smaller cubes; I have compared visually many times 5/10/17/21-Point Cube results.

I have performed visual comparisons between 2 eeColor Color Memories; 17P vs. 21P profiling, but the picture has better overall with 21p by swapping the memories.

An extra advantage for KURO users that will use eeColor compared to other video processors is that eeColor internally is working @ RGB Space (like the most professional 3D LUT boxes of pro industry).

As you may know RGB-Video is the best colorspace option for KURO. It's very rare for a display to performs better with a RGB-Video Input, KURO is an exception, for the most other displays the 4:4:4 might be best.

It's been mentioned by D-Nice several times, and I have confirmed it also by comparing all various color space related patterns using as a reference blu-ray player.

If you compare all colorspace options using reference patterns you will notice that will give you better performance with RGB-Video, but the 4:4:4 is very close but visible not so accurate than RGB-Video.

4:4:2 or 4:4:4 will roll off your high frequency chroma resolution.

This means that if you configure your blu-ray output to RGB-Video, the signal will stay at this colorspace when it will be entered to eeColor for processing -> go to eeColor output and then enter to KURO's HDMI Input; so there will be no extra colorspace conversions in that video signal chain that can degrade the signal or make it looks more ''processed''.

When you feed KURO with RGB-Video, it has the best high frequency resolution.

By using a reference blu-ray player like OPPO, you are taking advantage it's more advanced 4:2:0 to -> RGB-Video conversion (avoiding the KURO's internal conversion which is lower grade) and output 12bit per colorchannel (36-bit in total) signal for eeColor which will output 36-bit also to it's output for the KURO

That's why is the best performance upgrade for any KURO user

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #7883 of 7883 Old Today, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all clear View Post
the K10-A is not that much faster than the i1D3
1000 test patches
K10-A 18min
i1D3 25min
i1Display Pro - Klein K10-a tracking
Hi, K-10A is not that slow, the problem to this test had to do with the fact that the K-10A has so slow by the software/drivers that been used (ArgyllCMS).

With LightSpace it's super fast; a quick example, id3 with 1sec integration time can read 5% Luminance patches for about 3800-4500ms, when K-10A can read them for 125ms.

If it takes for Klein 18M for 1000 patches, this means that for 9.261 patches it will require 2H 45M with Argyll drivers, but it will take only 1H 30M with LightSpace.

Klein K-10A is the fastest colorimeter available for display calibration / most popular meter user to post-production/broadcasting area (Film/TV industry), it takes 256 measurements per second at any luminance level, low/ultra low/ high..whatever..... From these 256 measurements it's doing an average internally and returns the results to the software 8 times per second.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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