Official Pioneer Kuro Pictures Thread....... - Page 289 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8641 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Beachboy273 View Post
Watch Avatar...it's unreal
Avatar sucks B.#&#$, maybe for the visuals, but that's about it.

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post #8642 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
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yes sir.
caution to the wind but we want a big plasma and this 1 seems to have a good track record. Too high or not, it is in pristine condition and he came down quite a bit from his FIRM asking price. I guess I still have a little haggle left from my days in sales.
Just have to pick it up local and decide what movie to watch first.
Well Congrats Buddy! I hope you enjoy it immensely and I'm sure you will. Welcome to the plasma club! We're like the Jedi Knights.........a lost and dying breed! LOL! I would watch a good sci-fi movie for your first one. Maybe like Star Wars or something that will really show off the black levels and colors.

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post #8643 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 02:10 PM
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When you get use D-Nice's Pure settings, unless it is ISF calibrated, if not use the Pure settings then get it ISF calibrated, D-Nice calibrated both my Kuro's.

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Yeah I agree........get that thing ISF Calibrated. I used Chad B for my ZT60 and it looks amazing. D-Nice is supposed to be one of the top ISF Calibrators too. It just makes the picture so much more accurate/detailed and the colors how they're supposed to be.
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post #8644 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post
Sorry but black level rise/red tint is inevitable, whether or not dnice did the tweaking or not (he did mine too).

Good news is you probably won't be seeing it for a good, long while

The plasma cells become harder to fire as they age and the panel applies more voltage over time to counter this , but there is a fudge margin built in , in other words they apply more voltage then necessary to make sure there are no misfires , if you can fine tune the voltage , not only will you avoid red tint you will have much better contrast and therefore better PQ .
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post #8645 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM
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Well Congrats Buddy! I hope you enjoy it immensely and I'm sure you will. Welcome to the plasma club! We're like the Jedi Knights.........a lost and dying breed! LOL! I would watch a good sci-fi movie for your first one. Maybe like Star Wars or something that will really show off the black levels and colors.
Speaking of jedi - My AVS name is homage to obi wan kenobi. Best character in all the films imo.
I have a lawn care company called OBI LAWN.
As far as what movie- whenever I replace the bulb in our Panny projector or need a scene to show off our 7.1 sound, I always pop in the drum scene from House of flying daggers. The color and sound = amazing.
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post #8646 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 02:45 PM
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Sorry but black level rise/red tint is inevitable, whether or not dnice did the tweaking or not (he did mine too).

Good news is you probably won't be seeing it for a good, long while
Yeah the inevitable red tint on the Kuro's scare me. Can't believe that such a fine display can end up doing this. It sounds like Mackeveddie has a way to get the red tint out of the 50" Kuro's pretty darn good but says that getting it out of the 60" Kuro's is a little more complicated and you will end up sacrificing some of the picture quality. Oh well I guess every plasma has some sort of issue to it. My ZT60 will get IR sometimes if I watch Fox Sports Detroit. The old English D takes a while to go away. LOL!
Eddie's process is basically foolproof. He helped me do some tweaking after dnice's tweak wore off, and then even helped me reset the pulse meter on both my kuros (using a proprietary program that kept my calibration post-reset--a very modest fee was involved).

I can't speak to the 60 inch problem but I trust his assessment on that. Both of mine were 50 inchers with high hour counts and both look great (the $50 Craigslist one, broken when I got it, actually has lower blacks because it's a late build) with deep blacks and near-zero artifacting now
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post #8647 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 02:56 PM
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Yeah I agree........get that thing ISF Calibrated. I used Chad B for my ZT60 and it looks amazing. D-Nice is supposed to be one of the top ISF Calibrators too. It just makes the picture so much more accurate/detailed and the colors how they're supposed to be.
It has already been professionally calibrated. There is an ISF day and ISF night setting. I guess those are self explanatory.
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post #8648 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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It has already been professionally calibrated. There is an ISF day and ISF night setting. I guess those are self explanatory.
Yes they are, fantastic, that's a $300 charge you just saved. My ISF setting are set up for two of my HDMI connections. One you get the set of you have any questions how to access the ISF day/night settings let us know. Mine had day/night and auto, auto uses the light sensor. Make sure you get the light sensor.

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post #8649 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The light sensor is at the bottom right hand corner of my set.

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post #8650 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 03:42 PM
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Love the Star Wars stuff! My favorite movies of all time for sure. My favorite Jedi was Luke Skywalker of course. Loved Old Ben too though.
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post #8651 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 03:43 PM
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Yeah I agree........get that thing ISF Calibrated. I used Chad B for my ZT60 and it looks amazing. D-Nice is supposed to be one of the top ISF Calibrators too. It just makes the picture so much more accurate/detailed and the colors how they're supposed to be.
It has already been professionally calibrated. There is an ISF day and ISF night setting. I guess those are self explanatory.
Nice! You'll want to get the set calibrated at least once a year though because the sets skew over time.
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post #8652 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 04:39 PM
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I got the Light Sensor with mine, but I have never used it. I put it away somewhere and don't even know if I could find it lol. I haven't heard many people say it's good for the picture. Maybe I will try it one day just to see for myself if I ever bother to look for it...
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post #8653 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I got the Light Sensor with mine, but I have never used it. I put it away somewhere and don't even know if I could find it lol. I haven't heard many people say it's good for the picture. Maybe I will try it one day just to see for myself if I ever bother to look for it...
It works fanatic, I have my ISF setting set on auto, it adjusts the picture according to the ambient light in the room.

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post #8654 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 05:56 PM
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I've mainly heard it over saturates the color and dims the brightness a lot. I don't have the ISF stuff unlocked (I would love to be able to one day) but I am happy with the color and the brightness right now. I do tend to like very saturated colors though, probably more than many of the true Videophiles here just as long as it ain't overly cartoon-y. Maybe I will give it a shot myself
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post #8655 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cybertec View Post
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Originally Posted by Beachboy273 View Post
Watch Avatar...it's unreal
Avatar sucks B.#&#$, maybe for the visuals, but that's about it.

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Really? It may be your TV cause my Kuro sure did look damn good
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post #8656 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM
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Yes they are, fantastic, that's a $300 charge you just saved. My ISF setting are set up for two of my HDMI connections. One you get the set of you have any questions how to access the ISF day/night settings let us know. Mine had day/night and auto, auto uses the light sensor. Make sure you get the light sensor.

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Its actually a light/color sensor. I avoid it like the plague because it adjusts color saturation and contrast dynamically. Makes no sense to do that when the TV's ISF Day and Night modes are calibrated to a specific contrast setting / light output. Messing with the contrast / light output throws off the entire grayscale calibration and of course, the effects of the dynamic color saturation adjustments are self explanatory. The ISF Auto mode is simply a carbon copy of either the ISF Day or ISF Night settings (depending on which one the calibrator copied over. The light/color sensor makes dynamic adjustments on these settings, without exceeding the light output of the source ISF mode.

If you have a meter, take readings of your grayscale with ISF Day or Night, then switch to Auto and take another set of readings.

I dont even hook up the light/color sensor because it seems like it still performs adjustments even if its disabled in the settings.
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post #8657 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
location matters too. before buying my f8500, i looked for kuros, and there really wasn't anything. at the time, i definitely would have paid 2grand for a used 60" kuro instead of paying 3-4grand for an f8500 or zt60. oled certainly changes the equation, but i bet there's still ppl out there not happy with all the lg has done with oled and believes that mature plasma is better than 'cheap/early' oled.

i'm very thankful i'm not in the market right now, i would have a hard time finding a tv a liked for under 5grand locally i think. unless i timed it just perfectly on the week that a store has 5 oled's on clearance, otherwise even the cheapest 55" don't sell under 3grand after taxes.

if tv's were easier to ship, we probably wouldn't see such a discrepancy. if i could buy kuro's for 500bux, i'd probably have 3 of them
I think the market fluctuates, with tax time being the worst time to buy a Kuro (but best time to sell) for obvious reasons. End of the year is a good time to buy because the holiday season stimulates upgrade-itis for some Kuro owners (the ones who don't know what they have and think their brand new Smart LED TV is an upgrade) and some are needy for money and sell some of their valuables (i.e. Kuro). This is when I swoop in and scoop these things up. You have to assess the situation. One bargaining chip that I use is I offer to pick it up the very same day I contact the seller. Most of the time, the seller wants it out of the house, fast.

Market value seemed to go up after the last few HDTV Shootouts where it was plainly obvious that the contestants were still not up to the Kuro's level.

Another reason why I get great deals is because I already own 6 Kuros so I'm not desperate to get one. If the seller doesn't want to let it go for my offer, I move on. Sometimes I hit them up months later after it's still unsold. Pioneer made more than one Kuro so there's no reason to overpay.

I've bought 13 Kuros total (sold 7 of them most for a profit). Granted, the first two that I bought, I was a rookie and fell into the mistakes I mentioned above - I was desperate for one and thought there wouldn't be another listed near my area for awhile, or ever. This was around the time where their market value was around 2 to 3k. I paid 2K for my first Kuro - a 101fd with only 700 usage hours (didn't find this out until months into ownership). I paid 1400 for my second unit, a 141fd. After those two, I've yet to pay over $750 for a Kuro, with a 500M and another 101fd matching that price.

I'm at the point where I clearly don't need any more Kuros, but if I find a deal that piques my interest, I'll check it out and if I do buy it, I'll sell one of my other ones.

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post #8658 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM
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I think the market fluctuates, with tax time being the worst time to buy a Kuro (but best time to sell) for obvious reasons. End of the year is a good time to buy because the holiday season stimulates upgrade-itis for some Kuro owners (the ones who don't know what they have and think their brand new Smart LED TV is an upgrade) and some are needy for money and sell some of their valuables (i.e. Kuro). This is when I swoop in and scoop these things up. You have to assess the situation. One bargaining chip that I use is I offer to pick it up the very same day I contact the seller. Most of the time, the seller wants it out of the house, fast.

Market value seemed to go up after the last few HDTV Shootouts where it was plainly obvious that the contestants were still not up to the Kuro's level.

Another reason why I get great deals is because I already own 6 Kuros so I'm not desperate to get one. If the seller doesn't want to let it go for my offer, I move on. Sometimes I hit them up months later after it's still unsold. Pioneer made more than one Kuro so there's no reason to overpay.

I've bought 13 Kuros total (sold 7 of them most for a profit). Granted, the first two that I bought, I was a rookie and fell into the mistakes I mentioned above - I was desperate for one and thought there wouldn't be another listed near my area for awhile, or ever. This was around the time where their market value was around 2 to 3k. I paid 2K for my first Kuro - a 101fd with only 700 usage hours (didn't find this out until months into ownership). I paid 1400 for my second unit, a 141fd. After those two, I've yet to pay over $750 for a Kuro, with a 500M and another 101fd matching that price.

I'm at the point where I clearly don't need any more Kuros, but if I find a deal that piques my interest, I'll check it out and if I do buy it, I'll sell one of my other ones.
to rebuttle, i haven't seen 13 kuros for sale, in total, here(i've only been looking off and on since about 2012 though). so, i'm sure the market fluctuates(like retail does with sales, etc) when there is consistently available product. here, i think the only thing that affects the price is the intelligence of the seller, cause it's not like there's going to be more than one for sale at any given time(usually there's none)

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post #8659 of 8668 Old Yesterday, 09:29 PM
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Really? It may be your TV cause my Kuro sure did look damn good
looks good, but not a great story is what he was getting at.

imo, avatar looks pretty good on almost all displays. so i wouldn't bother with it on a kuro unless you enjoy the story as well.

for pure visuals, and some nostalgia,i like these movies:
-starship troopers
-tron legacy(this looks amazing on tv's with great blacks!)
-fifth element

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post #8660 of 8668 Old Today, 12:07 AM
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The light sensor is at the bottom right hand corner of my set.

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any calibrator will tell you the best place for that, is to keep it in its box
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post #8661 of 8668 Old Today, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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any calibrator will tell you the best place for that, is to keep it in its box
What calibrator is that, D-Nice did not say any of what you are saying, the sensor works just fine., and the picture looks great.

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What calibrator is that, D-Nice did not say any of what you are saying, the sensor works just fine., and the picture looks great.

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D-Nice told me not use it
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post #8663 of 8668 Old Today, 07:57 AM
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What calibrator is that, D-Nice did not say any of what you are saying, the sensor works just fine., and the picture looks great.

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No one is debating whether it works or not. Rather, that its pointless (and harmful) to use it since it dynamically adjusts settings that have already been calibrated to a specific light output. You want a bright picture, use ISF day. Dim? Use ISF night. Both of which have been calibrated to produce accurate grayscale, gamma and color with a specific light output.
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post #8664 of 8668 Old Today, 08:10 AM
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Anyone see the 151 in Florida on eBay? No reserve, starting bid at 447 with a buy it now of 900. 1 day left, zero bids. If you factor in ebay and paypal fees, I bet the guy would gladly take 700 cash outside of ebay. Why not use that as a barometer for the market? Not a SINGLE bid and still below $500.

Only reason the one in California is getting so much action is because the guy is oferring shipping. But notice bidding halted when it hit $800, well short of the $2000 the seller thinks he'll get (I work in the same city where the tv is at, made the guy a $500 offer with immediate pickup when bidding was around $100).

These things are not worth near the $1500 to $2000 that some seem to think they are.

The best deals are found on Craigslist, where sellersare not bound by ebay and paypal fees.

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post #8665 of 8668 Old Today, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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No one is debating whether it works or not. Rather, that its pointless (and harmful) to use it since it dynamically adjusts settings that have already been calibrated to a specific light output. You want a bright picture, use ISF day. Dim? Use ISF night. Both of which have been calibrated to produce accurate grayscale, gamma and color with a specific light output.
The PDP is ISF calibrated to use the auto feature, including night/day.

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post #8666 of 8668 Old Today, 08:19 AM
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Also if you look at the bidding activity on the California one, the bidding jumped from 150 to 800 with no bids in between. Clearly someone is desperate for a Kuro and scared everyone off with such a high bid.

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post #8667 of 8668 Old Today, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cybertec View Post
The PDP is ISF calibrated to use the auto feature, including night/day.

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No it isnt. Only the isf day and isf night are calibrated. Isf auto is impossible to calibrate due to the dynamic adjustments that the sensor makes. The adjustments give inconsistent meter reading during calibration, which is why the isf day settings are simply copied over to the isf auto memory. You can't calibrate settings that are being dynamically adjusted by a sensor, not sure why this is so hard to understand.

If you had the software to view the settings for each isf mode, you'd see that isf auto will be an exact copy of isf day. The 111 and 151 hide isf settings from view, but on other models, you can see the basic settings (contrast, brightness, color, sharpness, etc). Anyone who has any of the other models calibrated will thell you their isf auto settings match their isf day settings.
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post #8668 of 8668 Old Today, 10:37 AM
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just to stir the pot...

if the the whole point of isf day and isf night is that one calibration isn't suitable for all ambient light conditions, then why is only two calibrations suitable for all light conditions?

there's definitely no arguing that the sensor and auto setting will change the calibration, but if it's doing so based on ambient lighting, wouldn't that be ok in theory, good even? so the argument is not about it making changes to your 'calibration'(because if you watch tv in different lighting conditions from what you calibrated in, it SHOULD be changed), but how 'good' those changes are.

if it's merely adjusting between isf day and isf night based on light, then i really don't see the harm? it might not be perfect, but considering the isf night to be the dark end of the spectrum, and isf day the bright end, if the auto setting stays between those two points, how far off can it really be?

i definitely understand and appreciate the value of calibration. but i've never understood the logic of not making changes to that calibration when the viewing environment changes. if the guy likes what he sees(and i'm assuming he's done a comparison between isf night, isf day, and auto) then why tell him he's wrong? it might work well for his display in his room for his viewing habits, and that really has no impact on what works for you in your room with your display.

i just don't understand why we are so specific about the settings on the tv, and so lenient about the conditions of the room. i'm sure the editors aren't working in rooms with hugely varying ambient light, so if we're calibrating so we see what they see, we need to either watch in exactly the same ambient light conditions 100% of the time, or adjust calibration to compensate for different ambient lighting(aka the isf day setting). but that's only 'enough' if you have no windows and a simple on/off light switch(only 2 possible ambient light situations)

my apologies if i'm not understanding what the sensor actually does, this is the first time i've even heard about it. but as long as it's 'changes' are based off the isfday/night settings, i think it's worth testing out. if it makes up it's own settings willy nilly, then i completely understand why it should be avoided

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1130K, 7.1/5.1.2 audio
Sources: HTPC(Enby), PS3, XBOX360, Wii
Control: Harmony One
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