The Consumer Reports Jury is back...Samsung 5084...not glowing - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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All..

Did you notice what UMR basically said.

He said the Panny guts isn't worth his professional time. This includes all new models including 1080 if i'm not mistaken.

He also said his TV of choice when he will buy was the pio ELITE kuro..

he didn't say "kuro" or 5080..

He said the best unit ,,,the unit w/ the notocable diff in pq to EVERY other set IMO..

what I want to hear an expert say regardless of the TV's guts is that the kuro 5080 just isn't worth it comparing it to other comp villians HD 1080 pq.

crap...you don't have to say it..you only have to use ur eyes to see it..just like the ELITE kuro being head and shoulders better..the 5080 is not head and shoulders better regardless of innards
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post #272 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by doogiehowser View Post

UMR discredited himself. He isn't respected. I never hear of him. It is some guy who has an opinion that is in the minority. CR is a trusted magazine that does not accept any advertising money from the products they review. There is no conflict of interest. CR got it right using experts and normal people.

Then again, maybe Samsung sucks so bad that UMR can make money making it suck less. Panasonic is so good that it does not need the services of UMR and he knows it. If you're going to be a mechanic, you might as well specalize in the brand that breaks down the most.

Have you ever heard of the Bose CR debacle. Basically Bose made enough noise to get CR to change their review of the Bose product. I think in general CR is careful about how they review products to ensure they don't get on their bad side. In general, I'll take a person's word who's out in the real world servicing products over the word of a "lab" type environment that has to be careful not to upset the companies they are reviewing.

That being said, no one should accept information from any one source, you just need to understand their vantage point and take their info. with a grain of salt. CR and other pro review groups can be a good source of info. to steer you in the right direction. However, taking people's personal experience into account also helps determine what it will be like living with a product.

For example, a review may be negative on a product because a particular functionality or setting didn't work to their expectations, but then you find out that there is a way to fix that problem. Given that knowledge maybe it's the right product because it does other things very well. On the flip side, a product may review very well, but many people report problems with it, say it fails after a short period of time. It doesn't matter that it's the most highly acclaimed product if it fails in short order.

Instead of criticizing folks and trying to prove source A is better than source B, why not just take the info. for what it is? Try using that info to get a better overall picture of a product and produce messages that add value rather than waste space and clog up the search engine.
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post #273 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

Michael Jackson sold the most albums, but doesn't mean it was the best music. Just admit that you are the ultimate Panny Fanboy and lets get it over with. You are incapable of an objective perspective on plasmas

You're wrong - i'm actually a Pioneer fanboy and i recommend them to people all the time (depending on their needs and wants), but i consider the Panasonic 1080p sets to be the better value for the money. And i rarely recommend the Panny 768p sets nowadays unless it's to steer somebody away from a cheap bargain basement brand or if they sit so far from the screen that SDE isn't a consideration.

If Pioneer made a 42" 1080p Kuro or Elite i would have bought a Pioneer instead of the Panny 42PZ700U but they do not, so i had to "settle" for the Panasonic.

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post #274 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post

My only caveat is to beware of the 54/64 Samsung series due to the judder/ticker issue. I've seen this in person and it would annoy me if my TV had it, even if I didn't consciously see it all the time. CR didn't even seem to take this into account when they pubished their findings though.

Actually, C.R. did comment about it - in the next issue (December, recently received), on pg. 28, with this comment...

SAMSUNG HP-T5064
"The 720p Samsung had excellent picture quality, with bright, colorful images; solid blacks; and satisfying detail. But this set and its 42-inch siblings (HP-T4254/4264) had a minor quirk visible in test patterns displaying steady motion: a hiccup every few seconds. It's less obvious in normal viewing but you might see it in a scrolling news ticker, for instance. The pricier 1080p Samsung (FP-T5084) had finer detail but the picture wasn't as good. ...also more stated in another column on the 42" set - "the Samsung had the same jerkiness as the bigger set".

[the 50" 720p Samsung finished 3rd, and the 50" 1080p Samsung finished 8th].

Note: the December issue is a continuation from the November issue. C.R. had a statement in last month's issue on pg.33...

COMING SOON

We're testing more plasma TVs for our December issue. Among the models in our labs are two more 1080p sets from category leader Panasonic, the 58-inch TH-58PZ750 and 42-inch TH-42PZ700U. We also have two 50-inch 1080p sets from other brands with good performance histories: the Hitachi P50S601 and Samsung FP-T5084. Among the new 720p sets we're testing is the Maxent MX-42HPT51, a low-priced plasma with 42-inch screen, expected to sell for less than $1,000. [-END-]


By the way, that Panasonic 58" 1080p model was rated #1 (w/78 points) in the 58-to-60-Inch Models, and the 42" 1080 Panasonic finished 3rd (w/74 points) in the 42-Inch Models, behind the #1 Pioneer Elite PRO-950HD (w/79 points), and the Panasonic TH-42PX77U (w/77 points) - so very close.
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post #275 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 03:01 PM
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Thanks - I'll explore your links/comments, which I'm assuming include calibrations for many Panasonic plasma owners (among others). However, I disagree with your quoted opinion that "Panasonic = Totally Unacceptable" (relating to the black level comparisons w/Pioneer Kuro). A rating/opinion like this should be reserved for the lower-performing plasmas, such as various models from Maxent, HP, Akai, Maganavox, etc.
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post #276 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

Michael Jackson sold the most albums, but doesn't mean it was the best music.

Actually, experts consider ELVIS PRESLEY the largest selling musical artist in history (worldwide sales), and he is the #1 income earner among deceased celebrities. Though Michael Jackson's THRILLER is perhaps the #1 selling album. Either it or the Eagles GREATEST HITS Vol 1.
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post #277 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post

Thanks - I'll explore your links/comments, which I'm assuming include calibrations for many Panasonic plasma owners (among others). However, I disagree with your quoted opinion that "Panasonic = Totally Unacceptable" (relating to the black level comparisons w/Pioneer Kuro). A rating/opinion like this should be reserved for the lower-performing plasmas, such as various models from Maxent, HP, Akai, Maganavox, etc.

I beleive umr comments about the Panny being Totally Unacceptable goes much more deeper than just the black levels. Here are a couple of comments umr made about the pannys. I worked on a 50PZ750U yesterday. The light output was limited to about 25 fL at D65 and the color decoder was very wrong. The thing was dim at D65 (clipped above 25 fL) and the color decoder was a wreck. People looked orange on the Panasonic with the whites at D65.
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post #278 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

For our Panny Fanboys, here is a quote from the forum's top calibrator (UMR) on Panasonic plasma

"I find the current Panasonic plasmas totally unacceptable. I did not even bother with this type of measurement because it failed in so many other ways."

I thought Gregg Loewen was the forum's top calibrator

It's funny, a while back one of our PZ700/750 owners had his TV ISF calibrated and commented something to the effect that the calibrator was impressed with how accurate the TV was.

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post #279 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MegaByte View Post

People looked orange on the Panasonic with the whites at D65.

Beware of the orange people!

Seriously, no people have "looked orange" on the Pannys I've viewed at local stores (since July).

How many others here have a Panny with settings that reveal people looking "orange".

Any calibrators other than UMR reporting this? -or Reviews, etc?
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post #280 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 05:06 PM
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That's called 'clay-face'.
Vivid is not D65.

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post #281 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I thought Gregg Loewen was the forum's top calibrator

.

Just depends who I'm trying to suck up to
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post #282 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

That's called 'clay-face'.
Vivid is not D65.

Yes, I've heard of the "clay-face" look, but thought this was due to the unnatural VIVID setting(?), and that it can be avoided with your picture/image controls - so shouldn't be a problem.

But the "orange" was related to UMR's opinion regarding inaccurate color inherent to the native settings ["color decoder wrong with the whites at D65"].

So does the orange = clay-faced? - if so, that can be corrected in the picture settings.
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post #283 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post

Yes, I've heard of the "clay-face" look, but thought this was due to the unnatural VIVID setting(?), and that it can be avoided with your picture/image controls - so shouldn't be a problem.

But the "orange" was related to UMR's opinion regarding inaccurate color inherent to the native settings ["color decoder wrong with the whites at D65"].

So does the orange = clay-faced? - if so, that can be corrected in the picture settings.

For years Panasonic denied that they was a "Clay Face" issue, then last year they issued a "Clay Face" firmware update. So much for telling the truth. Who knows if it's corrected as they haven't been exactly truthful or innovated on their customer's behalf.
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post #284 of 350 Old 11-05-2007, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

For years Panasonic denied that they was a "Clay Face" issue, then last year they issued a "Clay Face" firmware update. So much for telling the truth. Who knows if it's corrected as they haven't been exactly truthful or innovated on their customer's behalf.

But, again, isn't it only noticeable with the VIVID picture mode setting?

The models I've seen over the last few months do not have people with a clay-face image - which now that I think more about it, I did see 'this' once before in 2005 (when purchasing my Aquos LCD), having looked at the Panny plasma, but they were overpriced).

But.. is the "clay-face" = orange color "with the whites at D65" - ?
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post #285 of 350 Old 11-06-2007, 03:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

For years Panasonic denied that they was a "Clay Face" issue, then last year they issued a "Clay Face" firmware update. So much for telling the truth. Who knows if it's corrected as they haven't been exactly truthful or innovated on their customer's behalf.

LOL and Pioneer has? How about the class action lawsuit against Pioneer from customers in the US just to get a firmware update for a DVD player? Or how about the firmware update debacle last year for the Pioneer Elite receivers? Looking at Pioneer and their CS I wouldn't classify them as being truthful or innovative either
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post #286 of 350 Old 11-06-2007, 04:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by phipp01 View Post

LOL and Pioneer has? How about the class action lawsuit against Pioneer from customers in the US just to get a firmware update for a DVD player? Or how about the firmware update debacle last year for the Pioneer Elite receivers? Looking at Pioneer and their CS I wouldn't classify them as being truthful or innovative either

As bad as Pioneer's customer service is perceived to be, Panasonic is worse.
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post #287 of 350 Old 11-06-2007, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

For years Panasonic denied that they was a "Clay Face" issue, then last year they issued a "Clay Face" firmware update. So much for telling the truth. Who knows if it's corrected as they haven't been exactly truthful or innovated on their customer's behalf.

Most Panasonic panels did not have this problem.
I believe the new firmware just made it idiot-proof with user settings.

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post #288 of 350 Old 11-06-2007, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post

But, again, isn't it only noticeable with the VIVID picture mode setting?

The models I've seen over the last few months do not have people with a clay-face image - which now that I think more about it, I did see 'this' once before in 2005 (when purchasing my Aquos LCD), having looked at the Panny plasma, but they were overpriced).

But.. is the "clay-face" = orange color "with the whites at D65" - ?

I tend to think my Panasonic has pretty accurate colors compared to any Samsung or Pioneer but UMR is talking about newer models.

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post #289 of 350 Old 11-06-2007, 09:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by optivity View Post

As bad as Pioneer's customer service is perceived to be, Panasonic is worse.

Yeah thats why when I bought a Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXSI for 1600 hundred bux I was told by a Pioneer CSR "Yes we know you need a firmware update to properly implement the LFE boost but only select service centers will have the special jig to do this and you will to ship it out at your expense and it may take possibly 3 months to get it back." So needless to say that receiver was returned immediately and Pioneer went to the bottom of my list for any electronic needs. How Panasonic could ne worse is beyond me.
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post #290 of 350 Old 11-08-2007, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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no..don't die..

hans...wtfru
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post #291 of 350 Old 11-08-2007, 06:31 PM
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As someone who reads CR I don't think people should rip the magazine untill they read the entire article. I don't always agree but I at least read how the product was tested and why a product is considered good or bad. For instance at the end of the article it states that in next months issue some of the bigger and more advanced tv's will also be tested. Also I've read several times here that CR factors price in the scores this is not true the scores are the scores , however CR does highlight what it considers a best buy for value but this is not reflected in the score.
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post #292 of 350 Old 11-08-2007, 10:45 PM
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Jesus, what kind of ****in freakshow is going on here, seriously...
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post #293 of 350 Old 11-08-2007, 11:29 PM
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I spent a few hours looking at Plasmas today and a few decent newer LCD fix panels. I was in the industry in the past and I know what too look for in a decent set but boy have things changed. I must admit, I was about ready to pull the trigger on a Panasonic 1080p Plasma but the Pioneer 720p looked far better to my eyes.. In fact the only Plasmas on the floor that looked better than this 50" was there Elite line and of course there 1080p model... Viewing any TV is subjective to what you like in a set, and I like deep blacks and great color detail and a very crisp picture.. I will check out some more Panasonic models tomorrow, but I am leaning towards the Pioneer.. Regardless of any fricking review "my eyes" are what counts here... Sure a review might steer me in a direction to the mass amounts of choices we now have.. If you want a inexpensive Plasma with a decent picture the Panasonic is a sure bet, but if you want performance and the best overall picture quality the Pioneers have it hands down. Also I rarely see any complaints on there Plasmas, I did like the Panasonic can some one give me some decent settings so when I go back to the store tomorrow I can tweak it more and then compare, I know some times in stores they have it set to torch mode and if it is a less expensive one they make it look like crap..

phipp01: In regards of Pioneers customer support, it been top notch on my end.. I also had the Elite 84 receiver updated via firmware, took local shop about 30 min to update, went got lunch came back picked up receiver and bingo was ready to go, a friend also had same model shipped it out got it back a week later because he didn't have a service center near by. I hope you didn't pay $1600 bucks for it..
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post #294 of 350 Old 11-09-2007, 04:20 PM
 
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phipp01: In regards of Pioneers customer support, it been top notch on my end.. I also had the Elite 84 receiver updated via firmware, took local shop about 30 min to update, went got lunch came back picked up receiver and bingo was ready to go, a friend also had same model shipped it out got it back a week later because he didn't have a service center near by. I hope you didn't pay $1600 bucks for it..

Nope returned it and bought a Marantz sr7001. After the way their CS spoke to me and basically said "your screwed oh well deal with it" I did. Out with pioneer in with Marantz and now most likely be upgrading to a Denon
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post #295 of 350 Old 11-10-2007, 06:27 AM
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Out with pioneer in with Marantz and now most likely be upgrading to a Denon

Assuming you're talking about comparable models, Marantz to Denon is a lateral move at best. I've never seen another receiver brand get better reviews for sound quality.

To quote another poster earlier, this "plasma" forum really does have it all!
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post #296 of 350 Old 11-10-2007, 06:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by moematthews View Post

Assuming you're talking about comparable models, Marantz to Denon is a lateral move at best. I've never seen another receiver brand get better reviews for sound quality.

To quote another poster earlier, this "plasma" forum really does have it all!

By upgrading I meant to this years model from last years model of Marantz. I believe the medical term is upgraditus
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post #297 of 350 Old 11-26-2007, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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no thread hijacks..stay on course.

this is a HOF thread
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post #298 of 350 Old 11-27-2007, 08:28 AM
 
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What does HOF mean?
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post #299 of 350 Old 11-27-2007, 08:36 AM
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How the heck did the pio 5080 get a score of 73?
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post #300 of 350 Old 11-27-2007, 08:55 AM
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What does HOF mean?

Hall of Fame thread.
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