The Consumer Reports Jury is back...Samsung 5084...not glowing - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 350 Old 11-02-2008, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DelJ View Post

I believe that you are off topic.

DelJ

You do realize you are replying to a message that JacksonWalker posted almost a year ago, don't you? Just a guess, but somehow I don't think he will be checking this thread to see if anyone replied to him
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post #332 of 350 Old 11-02-2008, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

And you forgot to mention that none of the sets were professionally calibrated,

The CR rep in the above post has already mentioned it. Read the posts for content next time so you don't embarass yourself again.

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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

even though you have complained for the past few months about the Samsung not being calibrated at that vendor shoot out, that you are still upset about. Funny how that works isn't it; When the uncalibrated results favor the Samsung, then you love them, but when they do not, well then..........Turns out that you are just as much a Samsung partisan as those Pioneer partisans that you keep rattling on and on about.

Uh, you might not look like such an idiot if you would check the facts before shooting off your mouth. Fact is, that at the shootout, the Pioneer was properly calibrated while the Samsung was not. The calibrator was clueless on the Samsung. Turns out that you are unable to discern between a fair test and a poorly designed one. But Pioneer partisans such as you have never shown me any desire for a fair test, instead you just keep rattling on and on about how great your overrated and vastly overpriced TV is.
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post #333 of 350 Old 11-02-2008, 11:22 PM
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I think im going to trust a review site that actually reviews home theater gear on a daily basis and also goes into much further detail in each review vs. consumer reports..

Some Pioneer owners are upset with CR's lower ratings of the 5080 because it TRULY is underrated.

Take a look at this 2008 tv technology face off and REALLY read through the whole article and its various TV reviews in the roundup, It gives you a better idea on why the 5080 deserved much higher praise in CR, The tested ANSI Contrast ratio alone speaks volumes: http://www.hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/
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post #334 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 12:09 AM
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I suppose we can all pick sites that confirm our opinions.
By the way, I would be as equally concerned about Home Theater mag because they dubbed a Pioneer the perfect TV a year ago. I have never known anything built by man that was perfect.
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post #335 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by doogiehowser View Post

Samsung sucks. It is garbage and not worth owning.

I did a quick inventory of people who own plasmas. Four people I know have Panasonic and all love it, very reliable and great picture. One has a Pioneer and loves it. One has a Samsung but nobody goes to his house because he is a weirdo.

Buying a Samsung is like having sex with a fat woman. She has the right parts but who wants them?

Buying a Samsung is like confusing McDonalds with a steakhouse.

Someone should do a scientific study to find out who buys Samsung. I would bet money most are first time Plasma virgins who didn't know Samsung sucks. These people don't learn until six months later when they visit a friend who has a Panasonic and they see what quality looks like.

They were warned. Consumer Reports told them Samsung sucks. If they don't listen then they will have to live with an inferior product for many months until it breaks down.


Lol, this was truly a great thread. Loads of laughs.

I must say, that as sick as it may sound, I actually miss Doogie LOL.

DOOGIE, WHERE ART THOUGH! (Can't remember how this is spelled)
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post #336 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

No, he's getting ready for the sh*t about to hit the fan because Consumer Reports just rated the Samsung over the Pioneer plasma in their December issue. I call it proper planning on his part, unlike a recent AVS shootout in New York that was a joke because the Samsung plasma wasn't calibrated properly and it turned into a Pioneer marketing event instead of a unbiased test.

C'mon on man! We all know that Samsung plasmas have really come along this year, which is why "the uncalibrated" Samsung, still got the nod over the Panasonic.

You may hate, or dislike Pioneer products for whatever reason, but no one can deny that they are in fact the best FPD's on the market. If you have all three panels in your home, I am sure you would not disagree.

Whenever someone asks me "Which plasma do you think is the best bang for the buck?", my response never differs. It is always, "PNA760", which even Discopaul can attest to.
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post #337 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 06:37 AM
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Where these CR ratings derail is price. Because of how price is weighted it skews the numbers making a great set appear worse than a lesser set. Many of us don't pay msrp (or even close) and buy based on picture quality above price. Other reviews rate the pio first for pq and give a caveat on price/msrp....more to the point for the members here but possibly not for the cr subs.
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post #338 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

The CR rep in the above post has already mentioned it. Read the posts for content next time so you don't embarass yourself again.



Uh, you might not look like such an idiot if you would check the facts before shooting off your mouth. Fact is, that at the shootout, the Pioneer was properly calibrated while the Samsung was not. The calibrator was clueless on the Samsung. Turns out that you are unable to discern between a fair test and a poorly designed one. But Pioneer partisans such as you have never shown me any desire for a fair test, instead you just keep rattling on and on about how great your overrated and vastly overpriced TV is.

I think that all people who engage in Brand partisanship are to be pitied. Since you are a Samsung partisan, I pity you.
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post #339 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Clancy View Post

Where these CR ratings derail is price. Because of how price is weighted it skews the numbers making a great set appear worse than a lesser set. Many of us don't pay msrp (or even close) and buy based on picture quality above price. Other reviews rate the pio first for pq and give a caveat on price/msrp....more to the point for the members here but possibly not for the cr subs.

Price is not a criteria unless you're talking about "Best Buy". I've seen many CR ratings of different products and it's very common to see the top rated product not getting the "Best Buy" or "Recommended" because of price, but price doesn't prevent the product from ranking first.

I can imagine there are things that CR doesn't like that may not matter to people here, such as whether the number and types of inputs and whether a remote control is backlit, that would affect the score or ranking.
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post #340 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

I think that all people who engage in Brand partisanship are to be pitied. Since you are a Samsung partisan, I pity you.

You insist upon embarrassing yourself! I am not a Samsung partisan. I have stated numerous times on this forum that the main TV in my house is a 61 inch Pioneer Pro Elite 118 RPTV. Non Hi-Def TV. Here's one post...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post14370143

and another..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post11419105

It still is the main TV in my house (family room) and gives me much pleasure when watching Philadelphia sports teams. Most times, you could almost swear that it is a high-def picture.

In our bedroom we have a Samsung 50 inch plasma. At our vacation house we have a 50 inch Samsung (bedroom) and a 52 in. Sony LCD in family room. I am agnostic when it comes to TV brands. I never bought Panasonic plasma when they were all the rage here at AVS because I thought they had a major tendency to suffer from clayface. Don't talk to me about great black levels (like the Panasonic had at the time) when the clayface was a real turnoff. In addition, at the time, the Pioneer plasma suffered from oversaturated colors like the electric green grass sports field that seemingly couldn't be dialed down. Because of this, as a major football and baseball fan, the Pioneer plasma was a real turn-off, and the inflated price point was the clincher. Right now, I do think that Samsung offers the best plasma by far in price performance, but I still won't give up my Pioneer RPTV that is now 12 years old.
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post #341 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

You insist upon embarrassing yourself! I am not a Samsung partisan. I have stated numerous times on this forum that the main TV in my house is a 61 inch Pioneer Pro Elite 118 RPTV. Non Hi-Def TV. Here's one post...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post14370143

and another..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post11419105

It still is the main TV in my house (family room) and gives me much pleasure when watching Philadelphia sports teams. Most times, you could almost swear that it is a high-def picture.

In our bedroom we have a Samsung 50 inch plasma. At our vacation house we have a 50 inch Samsung (bedroom) and a 52 in. Sony LCD in family room. I am agnostic when it comes to TV brands. I never bought Panasonic plasma when they were all the rage here at AVS because I thought they had a major tendency to suffer from clayface. Don't talk to me about great black levels (like the Panasonic had at the time) when the clayface was a real turnoff. In addition, at the time, the Pioneer plasma suffered from oversaturated colors like the electric green grass sports field that seemingly couldn't be dialed down. Because of this, as a major football and baseball fan, the Pioneer plasma was a real turn-off, and the inflated price point was the clincher. Right now, I do think that Samsung offers the best plasma by far in price performance, but I still won't give up my Pioneer RPTV that is now 12 years old.

You have gone on months long rants in support of poor picked upon Samsung. That makes you a Samsung partisan. You called me a Pioneer partisan. Go back and read my comments on that vendor shoot out thread, and see if you can start to get a clue. Anyone who is still ranting about that vendor marketing stunt, months later, as you are, has no sense of proportion. That is why I pity you, O ever vigilant Samsung defender. Get a grip on reality.
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post #342 of 350 Old 11-03-2008, 07:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

You insist upon embarrassing yourself! I am not a Samsung partisan. I have stated numerous times on this forum that the main TV in my house is a 61 inch Pioneer Pro Elite 118 RPTV. Non Hi-Def TV.

It still is the main TV in my house (family room) and gives me much pleasure when watching Philadelphia sports teams. Most times, you could almost swear that it is a high-def picture.

.

I had the 50" version of the exact same set and although it was nice for the time, it doesn't hold a candle to current sets, especially when viewing HD either in Blu Ray or over the air.
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post #343 of 350 Old 11-04-2008, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DB1 View Post

I agree with JazzGuys assessment. CR infers that the Pioneer wins solely on PQ, but 'all in' the Samsung is a very user friendly product for their type of testing (no professional ISF calibration). Also remember that for the vast majority of folks ISF calibratation is not done. I happen to love CR. I tend to agree with their conclusions and use their reviews as a guide in many purchases.

*Sidebar: The only bias I have seen over the years is against American based car companies. And even that is starting to change over the past year. Just an opinion but if folks want the American economy to do well they should do their part and buy from American companies... an epiphany, huh? Quality being equal, every product you buy sourced from overseas just reinforces the decision by companies to further outsource jobs in the U.S. to low cost countries. Big shocker this comes full circle and screws those who helped it happen, you and I.*

Back on topic. For this specific review I agree with all the ratings BUT for the Pioneer not being on top. Really there is no competition for the Pioneers. That said I do agree with their Quick Pics which take price into consideration.

I own a Panasonic 50" plasma, Sony LCD and the Sammy 5084 and I think the Sammy is just as good as the Panasonic. I looked at the Pio when first deciding on the Samsung, but I couldn't justify the $1000 price difference. And in regards to American cars, not to get off topic, but as soon as American car manufacturers build a better product by using better materials, tighter tolerance specifications and increase their dealer experience and service levels, I refuse to give them my money. I buy the product, experience and service.

I have had great experiences with Samsung and Panasonic products and service, I have had good experience with Sony product and poor experience with their service.
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post #344 of 350 Old 11-04-2008, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

You have gone on months long rants in support of poor picked upon Samsung. That makes you a Samsung partisan. You called me a Pioneer partisan. Go back and read my comments on that vendor shoot out thread, and see if you can start to get a clue. Anyone who is still ranting about that vendor marketing stunt, months later, as you are, has no sense of proportion. That is why I pity you, O ever vigilant Samsung defender. Get a grip on reality.

Months long rants? I've only made 290 posts in 5 years. How about you? As for reality, the reality is that the Samsung stacks up well against the Pioneer ignoring the price and when you include price, it's no contest. Pure, plain and simple, so that even YOU can understand it. Get a clue, pal. In regards to the compromised AVS shootout in New York, I mentioned it here in preparation for the Pio religious disciples for when they come on here and start trashing CR and it's testing methods.
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post #345 of 350 Old 11-04-2008, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

Months long rants? I've only made 290 posts in 5 years. How about you? As for reality, the reality is that the Samsung stacks up well against the Pioneer ignoring the price and when you include price, it's no contest. Pure, plain and simple, so that even YOU can understand it. Get a clue, pal. In regards to the compromised AVS shootout in New York, I mentioned it here in preparation for the Pio religious disciples for when they come on here and start trashing CR and it's testing methods.

Do you think it was a pioneer rep that was calibrating all of the displays... NO, it was kevin miller, who is a respected calibrator. Those displays were calibrated quite well, and the biggest difference between the 111 and the A650 were the blacks, which were quite noticeable to everyone there.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #346 of 350 Old 11-04-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

As for reality, the reality is that the Samsung stacks up well against the Pioneer ignoring the price and when you include price, it's no contest. Pure, plain and simple,...

Agreed!
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post #347 of 350 Old 11-05-2008, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

Months long rants? I've only made 290 posts in 5 years. How about you? As for reality, the reality is that the Samsung stacks up well against the Pioneer ignoring the price and when you include price, it's no contest. Pure, plain and simple, so that even YOU can understand it. Get a clue, pal. In regards to the compromised AVS shootout in New York, I mentioned it here in preparation for the Pio religious disciples for when they come on here and start trashing CR and it's testing methods.

So you admit that you are still ranting about that event, and your reason for doing so was to defend Samsung from imaginary attacks that had yet to be made, except in your fantasy world.

That single store vendor shoot out was months ago. You are still ranting about that single vendor promotion stunt. Get a grip. You are at least as obsessed about the subject, as those, mostly mythical, Pioneer strawmen that you keep erecting, as an excuse to keep name calling and blowing a gasket. You are acting just like those you keep complaining about.
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post #348 of 350 Old 11-05-2008, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by heron25 View Post

And in regards to American cars, not to get off topic, but as soon as American car manufacturers build a better product by using better materials, tighter tolerance specifications and increase their dealer experience and service levels, I refuse to give them my money. I buy the product, experience and service.

I prefer to get off topic as this thread is too old and boring now for anyone to care. Look at JD Power, CR, and Car & Driver. All say that GM and Ford now put out equally good quality to Toyota (I concede Chrysler cannot compete), and all while giving you more equipment standard, with style. I say this because an uneducated consumer is gullable. To prove my point, for A/V equip you come here to educate yourself or others. I just believe buying a car deserves the same scrutiny. Heron25 may have had a bad experience in the past, but that shouldn't determine his choice today. Afterall, Samsumg HDTVs were not a high end brand two years ago...does that mean you wouldn't consider one now?

Man I want a Pio Elite though. It would go so well with my other piano gloss black equip.
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post #349 of 350 Old 11-06-2008, 08:37 AM
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actually car shopped this summer and considered american cars, japanese cars and euro cars. Still had the same experience. American car manufacturers use recycled steel, have the loosest tolerance requirements in the auto industry and still use lower cost materials for interior use. And the dealership experience still leaves a lot to the imagination.

Samsung became a better electronics manufacturer because they took what the japanese did for so many years succesfully and did it at the same level for cheaper. I have a Samsung and a Panasonic- I don't expect the Samsung to be on the same level as the Pioneer sets, for example. But I expect it to be a very good tv for the price I paid. I wouldn't buy a honda and expect to have the same level of luxury and performance as a Mercedes or BMW. I expect it to be as good as any other Honda on the market. Samsung is the upper-middle class of plasmas, along with Panasonic, and Pioneer is the upper-class of plasmas. Hence the price difference.

Just my opinion about the tv's of course. The auto stuff is fact if you care to do some research.
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post #350 of 350 Old 11-06-2008, 08:50 AM
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Good analogy on the tvs heron25. I agree with it. It shows how a company not historically as good can use benchmarking and continuous improvement to make it's mark down the road. Hopefully Samsung continues the improvement to pass Panasonic decidedly (or the other way around for all I care, as long as they keep the rate of improvements and price decreases coming!)

To your point on cars. I agree overall. However the American brands do have specific models (the newer ones) that do compete on all that you like. That is fact. Just as Volkswagen a prior quality stickler can fall off its pedestal, so can a GM track it's way back up.
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