The Consumer Reports Jury is back...Samsung 5084...not glowing - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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and it scored a 68

worse then


LG 50PC5D score = 72
Vizio JV50P score = 72
Vizio P50HDTV score = 71

here are the top 4 again

1st,,Pan......TH-50PZ700U ..score = 81

2nd Pan......TH-50PX75U ..score = 78

3rd Samsung........ HP-T5064 score = 76


4th Pioneer...PDP-5080HD score = 73

so that outspoken vizio guy who says his is better then pannies can now say his is better the sammies......well,..at least the 5084...
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post #2 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 08:11 AM
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can anyone post the review?
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post #3 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 08:20 AM
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post #4 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 08:53 AM
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Very surprising. I believe the black levels of the Vizio and LG are nowhere near the Samsung or Panasonic or better yet the Pioneer. I don't know how their rating system is used. Price may be an influencing factor.

Chris
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post #5 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 09:29 AM
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Consumer Reports is the last place I would look at to find an HDTV. Their reviewers are NOT A/V specialists or even enthusiasts.

If you want to find a good toaster, go to Consumer reports. If you want to buy an HDTV, look elsewhere.
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post #6 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 09:39 AM
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With the Pioneer 5080 scoring a 73, I'd say that the Samsung measures up quite nicely. I don't regret my purchase at all.
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post #7 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

With the Pioneer 5080 scoring a 73, I'd say that the Samsung measures up quite nicely. I don't regret my purchase at all.

It sounds as if you need a magazine to justify what you purchased. Not good.

As been said before, CR is a joke for reviews and should only be used to rate reliability.
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post #8 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

It sounds as if you need a magazine to justify what you purchased. Not good.

WTF? My Samsung 5084 scores a 68, the Pioneer scores a 73 and I need magazine to justify my purchase? I don't get your point.
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post #9 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

WTF? My Samsung 5084 scores a 68, the Pioneer scores a 73 and I need magazine to justify my purchase? I don't get your point.

" I'd say that the Samsung measures up quite nicely. I don't regret my purchase at all."
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post #10 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 10:24 AM
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As has also been said before, CR is not a joke for reviews but appreciated by way more than the naysayers. Zarano, you boldly highlight that CR's reviewers are not AV specialists. or even enthusiasts. Sounds like a statement based on some kind of inside information. Do you know any of the CR reviewers or read any information as to their credentials?
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post #11 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 10:33 AM
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For those of us who don't subscribe, can somebody summarize what CR didn't like about the Sammy?
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post #12 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

As has also been said before, CR is not a joke for reviews but appreciated by way more than the naysayers. Zarano, you boldly highlight that CR's reviewers are not AV specialists. or even enthusiasts. Sounds like a statement based on some kind of inside information. Do you know any of the CR reviewers or read any information as to their credentials?

CR is great for reliability numbers. They are piss poor for actual reviews. Of course this is my opinion and it comes from years of "CR reading" experiences.

IMO, if you want competent reviews for A/V equipment, you need to look at HT Mag, Sound & Vision, and A/V Mag.
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post #13 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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5084

Highs

Very good picture quality across the board. Makes the most of its 1080p resolution, reproducing very fine detail. Deep, stable blacks don't vary in brightness with different types of content. Separate RGB-level adjustments allow you to fine-tune colors. It did a good job smoothing out jagged edges in movies and other film-based content. On-screen menu is very easy to navigate. Long 24-month part warranty and labor warranty, with in-home service.

Lows

Image is not as bright as the better plasmas and is slightly lacking in contrast. In the darkest scenes, images were grainy and unnatural-looking.

Bottom Line

This Samsung set, which comes with a swivel stand, has excellent picture detail that makes the most of its 1080p resolution. Picture quality across the board was very good, notably for color accuracy and deep black.
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post #14 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadcrowsflywest View Post

here are the top 4 again

1st,,Pan......TH-50PZ700U ..score = 81
2nd Pan......TH-50PX75U ..score = 78
3rd Samsung........ HP-T5064 score = 76
4th Pioneer...PDP-5080HD score = 73

I looked at that 5064 and ruled it out due to the judder issue, which was quite obvious in the store. How could CR recommend that one above the Pioneer?

Anyway we have both Samsung FP-T5884 and Panasonic TH-50PX77U in our family. Each has its stong points but nothing that would set one far apart from the other. They are both excellent TVs capable of producing comparable pictures.
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post #15 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

As has also been said before, CR is not a joke for reviews but appreciated by way more than the naysayers. Zarano, you boldly highlight that CR's reviewers are not AV specialists. or even enthusiasts. Sounds like a statement based on some kind of inside information. Do you know any of the CR reviewers or read any information as to their credentials?


CR is in the business of reviewing. I don't have to know anyone there or any of their credentials to know that they cannot have a specialist for every item they review. They give generic reviews based on what the average consumer may want. Most people that spend 5 grand on a TV are not average consumers, but rather enthusiasts who demand more than just value per dollar and warranty info. CR reviewers are journalists, and nothing more. That is not to say that their reviews are not valuable to some, and I certainly do not consider them a "joke".
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post #16 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 11:01 AM
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Obviously they didn't take into account Visio's dismal out of warranty repair track record. Vizio will repair the TV after warranty but the shipping and repair costs are about the same as a new TV. Vizio is basically a throwaway TV.

http://hdguru.com/?p=107

Update:

http://hdguru.com/?p=108
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post #17 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

As been said before, CR is a joke for reviews and should only be used to rate reliability.

Not even those, probably. I wonder what sample size they use for this reliability survey research? I know for autos, they simply base reliability ratings on the responses they get from their readership that bothers to send in the questionnaire, fan boys and all.

In the end, one needs to go and compare and judge for oneself. I do like CR's ability to clearly and succinctly explain the state of a product category, as well as provide user-friendly descriptions of functions and features, et al.
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post #18 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 11:06 AM
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Well, I guess this means a 5084 and kuro wont be in my future anytime soon
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post #19 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zarono View Post

CR is in the business of reviewing. I don't have to know anyone there or any of their credentials to know that they cannot have a specialist for every item they review. They give generic reviews based on what the average consumer may want. Most people that spend 5 grand on a TV are not average consumers, but rather enthusiasts who demand more than just value per dollar and warranty info. CR reviewers are journalists, and nothing more. That is not to say that their reviews are not valuable to some, and I certainly do not consider them a "joke".

Sorry but I have to take issue with a couple of your statements.
1. I believe that all of the 720P plasmas reviewed were priced under $2000, including the Kuro. So the 5 grand above average enthusiasts you mention was not CR's target audience.
2. CR's reviewers are journalists, and nothing more? Somebody used highly sophisticated equipment to test these displays. Most likely well beyond the average "just a journalist" capabilities.
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post #20 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 11:38 AM
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Guys and gals, just have fun with this and take this with a grain of salt. These reviews can provide some info but it shouldn't make the purchase decision for you. I am also including the "serious" magazine reviews as well.
As an example I remember over 20 years ago the Renault Alliance was the "Car of the Year" and was a Ten Best in the serious car magazines. Anyone familiar with these cars know that these were among the worst pieces of crap cars on the road
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post #21 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

As has also been said before, CR is not a joke for reviews but appreciated by way more than the naysayers. Zarano, you boldly highlight that CR's reviewers are not AV specialists. or even enthusiasts. Sounds like a statement based on some kind of inside information. Do you know any of the CR reviewers or read any information as to their credentials?


Actually after looking closer at their "review" , I would say that CR is a joke. Those "ratings" they gave are a complete joke.
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post #22 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Sorry but I have to take issue with a couple of your statements.
1. I believe that all of the 720P plasmas reviewed were priced under $2000, including the Kuro. So the 5 grand above average enthusiasts you mention was not CR's target audience.
2. CR's reviewers are journalists, and nothing more? Somebody used highly sophisticated equipment to test these displays. Most likely well beyond the average "just a journalist" capabilities.

I was using "5 grand" as an example and not an exact amount. Most people interested in a Pioneer plasma are enthusiasts. They rated the Pioneer below the Samsung and the Panasonics. Anyone who knows anything about plasma's knows that is a joke.
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post #23 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by zarono View Post

I was using "5 grand" as an example and not an exact amount. Most people interested in a Pioneer plasma are enthusiasts. They rated the Pioneer below the Samsung and the Panasonics. Anyone who knows anything about plasma's knows that is a joke.

Taking this thought a bit further, sometimes these "ratings" include a value variable -- something tested might compare very favorably to the top-rated item, but CR drops it down in the ratings a few notches because of the price-of-admission variable.
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post #24 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zarono View Post

I was using "5 grand" as an example and not an exact amount. Most people interested in a Pioneer plasma are enthusiasts. They rated the Pioneer below the Samsung and the Panasonics. Anyone who knows anything about plasma's knows that is a joke.

Anyone? Plenty of folks who know something about plasma's choose Panasonic and Samsung over Pioneer with price not being a factor. Many on this forum have said that when standing in front of these competing displays that they can see no difference at all. I looked closely at a 5064, 5080, and 6010 and from 3 feet and could not tell a difference and I knew pretty much what to look for.
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post #25 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 02:00 PM
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the full review is a subscription so i don't suppose they'd appreciate anyone copying and pasting it, but to summarize...

the panasonic 1080p models were rated tops in 50 and 50+, the pioneer elites were not tested, only the 1366x768 pioneers.

the elite was listed as tops in the 42" category, but they didn't test the 50"+ elites.

i agree that it's a pretty shotty review. if the elite 42" was so much better than other 42s why not test the 50 and larger elites? probably because they tried to limit it to 5000 dollars or less, that's the only thing i can figure.
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post #26 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

CR is great for reliability numbers. They are piss poor for actual reviews. Of course this is my opinion and it comes from years of "CR reading" experiences.

IMO, if you want competent reviews for A/V equipment, you need to look at HT Mag, Sound & Vision, and A/V Mag.

What are you Smoking? Those magazines take ad revenue from the very products they review. Consumer Reports does not take any advertising. I used to subscribe to Home Theater Magazine until they reviewed a Cary Audio Pre/Pro Amp combo with an advertisement and endorsement from Home Theater in the same issue the product was reviewed. Cary Audio glowed about their review in Home Theater Magazine in the same issue it was reviewed in. If that's not selling ads, I don't know what is.

Consumer reports is unbiased and they have spent thousands of dollars building listening and viewing areas for accurate reviews and calibration. I have been a Consumer Reports subscriber for over 20 years.

I said it months ago and I will say it again. I told you so. I was not impressed with the Pioneer 5080 or the Samsung. Panasonic makes the best plasmas by performance and cost.

AVS forum is biased by forum sponsors selling Pioneer plasmas and Pioneer fans who only see perfection in Pioneer when perfection does not reflect the picture quality.

I have always said Pioneer Elites are excellent but very expensive.

It's another clean sweep for Panasonic. The main reason for the big price drops in plasma pricing is directly due to Panasonic and Vizio with their pricing wars.
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post #27 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kitchener View Post

Not even those, probably. I wonder what sample size they use for this reliability survey research? I know for autos, they simply base reliability ratings on the responses they get from their readership that bothers to send in the questionnaire, fan boys and all.

In the end, one needs to go and compare and judge for oneself. I do like CR's ability to clearly and succinctly explain the state of a product category, as well as provide user-friendly descriptions of functions and features, et al.

Every year, Consumer Reports sends out an annual questioneer to all their subscribers. The questioneer is highly detailed and can take hours to complete. Consumer Reports has well over 50% participation by it's subscribers.

The reviewers at Consumer Reports are not journalists. They are a non profit publication that accepts no advertising dollars.

Compare this to the AV mags and AVS Forum which censors anything that would upset it's sponsors or ads at the top of the screen.
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post #28 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 02:45 PM
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All of this hulaballoo does not even matter... I, as I am sure many of you, already own a 5084. Who cares what other think about it, TO LATE TO LATE

Klipsch Image Ones
Klipsch x11i
Rega P5/Groovetracer/Denon DL-103R
Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre/SUT
Pioneer SC35
Bel Canto REF 500M
Klipsch Cornwall/Crites/Aletheia Audio
Klisch RC64II
Klipsch SW-115
OPPO BDP-93
Samsung PN64D8000
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post #29 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Gruber View Post

What are you Smoking? Those magazines take ad revenue from the very products they review. Consumer Reports does not take any advertising. I used to subscribe to Home Theater Magazine until they reviewed a Cary Audio Pre/Pro Amp combo with an advertisement and endorsement from Home Theater in the same issue the product was reviewed. Cary Audio glowed about their review in Home Theater Magazine in the same issue it was reviewed in. If that's not selling ads, I don't know what is.

Consumer reports is unbiased and they have spent thousands of dollars building listening and viewing areas for accurate reviews and calibration. I have been a Consumer Reports subscriber for over 20 years.

I said it months ago and I will say it again. I told you so. I was not impressed with the Pioneer 5080 or the Samsung. Panasonic makes the best plasmas by performance and cost.

AVS forum is biased by forum sponsors selling Pioneer plasmas and Pioneer fans who only see perfection in Pioneer when perfection does not reflect the picture quality.

I have always said Pioneer Elites are excellent but very expensive.

It's another clean sweep for Panasonic. The main reason for the big price drops in plasma pricing is directly due to Panasonic and Vizio with their pricing wars.

Hilarious post.
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post #30 of 350 Old 10-27-2007, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Gruber View Post

Compare this to the AV mags and AVS Forum which censors anything that would upset it's sponsors or ads at the top of the screen.

If you feel so passionate about dissing AVS, why are you here? You're condoning a public forum that you willfully post on? Yet you want point the finger and say "hey this mag and/or message forum is not credible as they profit from ads". You know how silly that sounds?
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