Panasonic Pro TH-50PF10UK & TH-65PF10UK owners thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 491 Old 11-29-2007, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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It's started shipping now and there are way too many small threads so I thought it's 'bout time to get organized, I think...

For official specs and 10-series brochure please find attachments - keep in mind that no speakers nor any pedestal/mount included by default (it's not a consumer model).

Manual for both TH50PF10UK and TH-65PF10UK

10-series Professional Plasma Displays general brochure

Besides the RS-232 serial port they come with 15-pin D-SUB VGA (fixed), 3xBNC component/RGB w/ 2xRCA stereo audio TY-42TM6A (slot#3) inputs plus the new 1080p24-capable 2xHDMI v1.2 TY-FB10HMD board (slot#2) installed by default so you still have one vacant (slot#1). Specs also indicate HDMI board can be moved into any other slot.

WRT 1080p24: a week ago I opened a ticket about it at Panasonic and got a call back few hopurs later. The engineer told me he hasn't seen this unit yet but when I asked whether the reason behind recommending 50Hz/100Hz for 1080p24 is that it displays at 48Hz/96Hz instead of doing a 2:3 pulldown for 60Hz, he answered "it will try to display the signal it receives as it is and if it cannot then starts tuning". I asked back does it mean 48Hz or 96Hz he said yes but remember, he hasn't seen the unit and IIRC he even mentioned there's not much docs about it either.
Long story short: it seems to be one of the first displays to do proper 24p BUT it needs to be cofirmed.

 

S_TH-50PF10UK.pdf 216.0361328125k . file

 

S_TH-65PF10UK.pdf 203.71875k . file
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post #2 of 491 Old 11-30-2007, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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OK so the MSRP was originally set to a ridiculous $3,500 . I wonder if we could team up enough members to get AVS to organize a Power Buy...


[Mod Note = Members - Do not approach vendors about power buys.]
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post #3 of 491 Old 11-30-2007, 11:06 AM
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The new dual HDMI board is supported in slots 1 and 2 but not in slot 3 (component only) following the convention of other boards.

I was told a 24p tidbit by a factory engineer, from what I could understand from the not so easy translation, 24p is doubled within the HDMI board to 48. It is similar to how the Kuros work except that they triple their signal to 72.

He gave no other information so I provide the above as stated without any further explanation.

TW

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post #4 of 491 Old 11-30-2007, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the great news, so it indeed seems to be a 48Hz/96Hz set!

Sorry about the HDMI board - in the manual I clearly see the "slot123" marking on the dual HDMI board's schematics...
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post #5 of 491 Old 11-30-2007, 02:19 PM
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T2k, the 10 series brochure confirms the slot 1/2 compatibility for the dual HDMI board.

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni...PF10Series.pdf

Might be worth adding the link to your original post, it has a lot of great info, including supported signals for all of the expansion boards.
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post #6 of 491 Old 11-30-2007, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, link added.
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post #7 of 491 Old 12-01-2007, 04:20 AM
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That 48hz / 96hz info does indeed sound like great news. If Rance's tests prove everthing out, I think this is the one for me.

Could a power buy include 65's also, and have such purchases been more economical than the better published on line prices?
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post #8 of 491 Old 12-01-2007, 07:24 AM
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Does anybody have an reliable information concerning the availability of the TH-50PF10UK? I thought they were supposed to be shipping by now?
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post #9 of 491 Old 12-01-2007, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maceo40505 View Post

Does anybody have an reliable information concerning the availability of the TH-50PF10UK? I thought they were supposed to be shipping by now?

The 19UK won't be shipping for maybe 9 years

Visualapex shows the TH-50PF10UK as "IN STOCK"

When I die I want to go peacefully, in my sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming and scared like the other three people in his car!
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post #10 of 491 Old 12-01-2007, 10:09 AM
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Talked to VisualApex this morning and despite the info on their site they do not in fact have any TH-50PF10UK's in stock but I did find out that Panasonic has started shipping them.

Oh, I also found out that you were right about the 19UK's- the lead time on them is pretty far out
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post #11 of 491 Old 12-01-2007, 01:37 PM
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I have been following the PH10 and PF10 threads and posts all over the board. Thanks for starting the thread. This is my first post, I swear if I earned minimum wage for the hours I've spent reading everyone's posts for the last few months I coulda bought an MSRP anything by now.

My biggest hurdles which I hope the PH or PF10UK will handle is the buzzing issue and contrast. I live at 7200' and have a well daylit Living/TV room. So if I can see it and not hear it I'll have made the right choice, otherwise it's a bug zapper XBR4 or the new Toshiba LX LCD.

It seems in all the posts that Panasonics buzz the least (fewest complaints) and seem to out shine other brands in contrast, without pushing the settings to high (that is just a gut feeling I get from the posts). Would you Panny owners think that these sets will do well in a daylit room with no direct sunlight. Curtains are drawn for the good stuff.

My viewing habits are 80% direcTV, 20% movies and Santa is bringing a Wii for the kids in a few weeks.

Thanks
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post #12 of 491 Old 12-01-2007, 01:59 PM
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T2K,

Thanks for starting this thread.

Now allow me to display my ignorance...

If it displays at either 50 or 100Hz, would this not seem to be directed at the PAL market instead? Otherwise, why not just call it 48/96HZ?

Any idea as to how the 100 (or 96) figures in? Is it capable of quadrupling the input as well as doubling it?

This definitely has my interest peaked.
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post #13 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 09:41 AM
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Ditto T2K for starting this thread. Here are some screen shots of my Panasonic TH-65PF10UK. I am very pleased with what I have been testing. It is not perfect but EXCELLANT for me. I am testing my last years Panasonic Model 65 inch 600U against the new one & I am seeing very slight differences between the two. Also I would like to compliment Chris with Cleveland Plasma where I bought this Th-65PF10UK. This was my first experience with mail ordering something this expensive. Mine arrived fast & in perfect condition with not even one bad pixel that I can find. Very nice indeed.

T2K asked if I could set the computer to display 48 , 50 & 100 hertz to see how it behaves. I will do this on Tuesday & post back.
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post #14 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 09:52 AM
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post #15 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 09:59 AM
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post #16 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 11:06 AM
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post #17 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rance View Post

T2K asked if I could set the computer to display 48 , 50 & 100 hertz to see how it behaves. I will do this on Tuesday & post back.

Excellent input Rance, thanks!

Could you also run some judder tests at those frequencies, movie pans etc...

If also using a PC, use judder test and a sweeping white bar test if poss.

Any pics of letterboxed movies to show black bars?

TIA!
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post #18 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 11:33 AM
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You can see 4 UFOs chasing 3 helicopters that are chasing 2 speed boats! The UFOs are my over head lights in this small room with the big screen. This shows the glare issues with Plasma. This new Panasonic is better than my 600U with glare.
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post #19 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 11:44 AM
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Pics look good. However, is this display covering your window?

Chris
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post #20 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:


Pics look good. However, is this display covering your window?

Yes it is covering the bottom part of a non functional small window. The sun doesn't shine in much because of the 16 inch sophit overhang & this is on the north side of the house. The sun shines on the south side in my location.
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post #21 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rance View Post

Yes it is covering the bottom part of a non functional small window. The sun doesn't shine in much because of the 16 inch sophit overhang & this is on the north side of the house. The sun shines on the south side in my location.

Looks good. This looks like your attic or hide out spot! Very nice!

Did you know that you add the pics within the thread instead of uploading as attachments?

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post #22 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:


Could you also run some judder tests at those frequencies, movie pans etc...

If also using a PC, use judder test and a sweeping white bar test if poss.

Any pics of letterboxed movies to show black bars?

My pleasure. More to follow.
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post #23 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:13 PM
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Quote:


Did you know that you add the pics within the thread instead of uploading as attachments?

Thanks for the tip but which way is better for all of you?? I saw add the image but it asks for a url? Chris you are correct it is my hideout to my own little world of virtual reality!!
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post #24 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:18 PM
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Sorry, but I don't know where to post this stuff. I just found this thread which only applies to the 50/65PF10UK. I'm sorry if you read this post in another of the many threads involving these displays.

Quote:


....I would like to know if it can handle 24P 48 72 correctly and do proper 3:2 pulldown via the dual HDMI board input, or via component/VGA if you don't have the HDMI yet.

Also a movie test at these rates, using panning scenes to detect any evidence of FRC judder. Anything would be truely appreciated! TIA.

I think there's a lot of confusion in this area. Unfortuntely, I don't have the answers. First, I don't think that there's ever been a suggestion that the 50/65PF10UK can "handle 24P .... 72 correctly". As I understand it, the 50/65PF10UK gives the user a choice between 50hz and 100hz refresh rates. Why 50Hz refresh rate, instead of 48 (2:2 cadence)? Why 100Hz refresh rate, instead of 96 (4:4 cadence)? No one has adequately explained this in a post that I've read.

The question about doing proper 3:2 pulldown is a different issue. As I understand it, the 3:2 pulldown is intended to be used with a display that refreshs at 60hz (all U.S. displays, except some Pioneer's). The 3:2 pulldown converts the 24 fps to 30 fps which is then displayed at 60HZ. Pioneer Elite displays are the first to try and eliminate the 3:2 pulldown and thus the judder on some material.

If a display is designed to correctly eliminate Judder, it should remove (inverse telecine) the 3-2 pulldown via an algorithm. Once removed, the original pure progressive film image is restored. The display can then use a 3:3cadence (72Hz refresh rate); a 4:4 cadence (96hz refresh rate) or, ideally, a 5:5 cadence (120Hz refresh rate) to display the 24fps material. 120 Hz is ideal because it's an even multiple of 24 (film fps) and 30 (video fps). Done properly, this will eliminate the judder.

The new LCD 120Hz displays are not trying to eliminate judder, they're increasing the LCD response time to reduce motion blur. Thus the even cadences mentioned above are not used with the new 120Hz LCD displays.

So the 10UK doesn't display at 72hz. It will display at 50 or 100hz, but what does that do to eliminate judder or improve the PQ? I would be surprised if the 10UK removes the 3-2 (actually 2:3) pulldown and displays at an even cadence. Maybe next year.

Any input, corrections or clarification based on what I've said would be appreciated. This is confusing stuff.
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post #25 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:20 PM
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Here let me show you:







Like that!

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post #26 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:22 PM
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If you want to insert the full pictures into your posts you need to host/upload them to a picture server like photobucket and add the "URL" of the picture.

Thanks again Rance!

Do you have any HD movies (HD/blu-ray player?) you could run and check the credits and scene pans for any evidence of judder, possibly feeding the display with 1080P24 and 1080P48 when doing this?

Have you noticed any kind of judder yet anyway or is everything perfectly smooth on any movement?

TIA, bud!
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post #27 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:26 PM
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@ DOBE,

Yeah, exactly what we are after knowing, whats going on in the processing of this model, some hints but not evidence from Panasonic/enginner of 48 support, processed in the actual dual HDMI blade.

Any suggestions for testing this for Rance?
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post #28 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:27 PM
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More tests....

Hey thanks for all the help, nice to learn from all! I am not setup with photobucket & have limited time today so feel free to convert them all, thanks again.
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post #29 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOBE View Post

As I understand it, the 50/65PF10UK gives the user a choice between 50hz and 100hz refresh rates. Why 50Hz refresh rate, instead of 48 (2:2 cadence)? Why 100Hz refresh rate, instead of 96 (4:4 cadence)? No one has adequately explained this in a post that I've read.

So the 10UK doesn't display at 72hz. It will display at 50 or 100hz, but what does that do to eliminate judder or improve the PQ?

This is confusing stuff.

Glad to see I am not the only one confused.
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post #30 of 491 Old 12-02-2007, 12:41 PM
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Rance,

Thanks for all your efforts; we all really appreciate the photos.

I don't understand why I am seeing what I am, but I like it!
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