Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 142 - AVS Forum
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post #4231 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremyd5 View Post

b
If you watch a lot of movies and are less interested in gaming and cable/satellite HDTV, the ST50 is a easy recommendation. After Chad B.'s calibration, the PQ of the ST50 blows my old 800U out of the water and I hear the ST60 is supposed to be even better. Even if you do play games, I tend to agree with Cuda that while there are definitely bad panels, I think the majority of owners are extremely happy with their ST50s. Just my 2 cents.

Thank you for the detailed feedback.

I don't game but I do watch movies & regular cable TV.
Though the future ST50 or ST60 will be the entertainment hub of our house, it still will be secondary after the LED in the kitchen ie after dinner TV.If you get what I mean.

Yet I am still concern at your comment in bold above.

Is that solely because of the logos on the cable stations?
I would think that unless I am watching 24/7 CNN breaking news, that a couple of hours of regular watching mixed with channel flipping wouldn't cause any temporary IR true?

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post #4232 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post

I understand your concern. Don’t let the amount of IR posts deter you from a new ST50 or ST60, they are great panels. Many Panasonic users have not experienced stubborn IR or at least have not noticed it during normal TV viewing. I would put AVSForum members is the vocal minority. My panel has over 700 hours and use it as I please w/o much IR worry. I did run slides, out of box, for two weeks nonstop. When I wasn’t running slides I watched only full screen content. My set is IFS calibrated and black bar IR is a non-issue. With the exception of Blu-Rays I only watch full screen content. I have had no IR visible with regular content. When I check with colored slides I have noticed IR from various games and notable channel logos like, History. Most of my IR has been noticeable on two darker grey slides. My IR has easily been removed by watching full screen content or running the Disney WOW pixel flipper, which I use overnight about twice a month. I also admit to be concerned about IR when I purchased my LCD several years back.

Thank you for your comments & allaying my fears.
It appears the hypochondriac in all of us videophiles even wannabe ones like me - do come out way too much. LOL.

My last Plasma was purchased in 2007 & as I posted earlier, I ran CN for 200 hours in low brightness/contrast settings & max zoomed to eliminate the CN logo & really the effort was worth it in the 5 years I owned that Sammy plasma.
However, better break-in techniques may have come on the scene since then.

I see references to the Disney WOW pixel flipper amongst other things.
What was your break-in process consist of?

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post #4233 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

Thank you for your comments & allaying my fears.
It appears the hypochondriac in all of us videophiles even wannabe ones like me - do come out way too much. LOL.

My last Plasma was purchased in 2007 & as I posted earlier, I ran CN for 200 hours in low brightness/contrast settings & max zoomed to eliminate the CN logo & really the effort was worth it in the 5 years I owned that Sammy plasma.
However, better break-in techniques may have come on the scene since then.

I see references to the Disney WOW pixel flipper amongst other things.
What was your break-in process consist of?
How you break in the panel will not effect if the TV gets IR or not. You can run slides for 1,000 hours and still get IR when you are done.

The Disney pixel flipper is something you would run to remove stubborn IR once it is present. It basically looks like static that is being run on the screen which cycles through all colors really fast.

I also believe Sammy panels handle IR better then Panasonic from what I have heard.
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post #4234 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I also believe Sammy panels handle IR better then Panasonic from what I have heard.

I believe that 2013 Panasonic plamas have improved in that regard, not sure if Samsung did also..

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post #4235 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

Thank you for your comments & allaying my fears.
It appears the hypochondriac in all of us videophiles even wannabe ones like me - do come out way too much. LOL.

My last Plasma was purchased in 2007 & as I posted earlier, I ran CN for 200 hours in low brightness/contrast settings & max zoomed to eliminate the CN logo & really the effort was worth it in the 5 years I owned that Sammy plasma.
However, better break-in techniques may have come on the scene since then.

I see references to the Disney WOW pixel flipper amongst other things.
What was your break-in process consist of?

I agree with eric3316. Panel break-in does not affect IR resistance. That said, I wouldn’t abuse any new panel for the first 200hrs or so. I ran my panel for two weeks straight out of the box w/o ever shutting it off. I only watched full screen content and when I wasn’t watching TV, I was running color slides. My reasons for this were; 1) To check for defects within the warranty period and 2) I was planning on having the panel ISF calibrated, which I did around 400hrs or so.

I still get IR but don’t consider it a problem as it is not visible during my normal day to day usage. I can only see it when I am purposely checking for it with color slides. Even then, running the pixel flipper clears it up. It seems certain panels are prone to IR but I don’t think it is as widespread as this forum would lead you to believe.
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post #4236 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

I believe that 2013 Panasonic plamas have improved in that regard, not sure if Samsung did also..
From my personal experience with an ST60 I would have to disagree. Seemed to even get worse the more I used it.
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post #4237 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

From my personal experience with an ST60 I would have to disagree. Seemed to even get worse the more I used it.

Really eh, well I hope mine doesn't start to act up eek.gif

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post #4238 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

Is that solely because of the logos on the cable stations?
I would think that unless I am watching 24/7 CNN breaking news, that a couple of hours of regular watching mixed with channel flipping wouldn't cause any temporary IR true?

I would say so. Mixing up content is exactly what you should be doing. Honestly, I I think you will be very happy with either the ST50 or ST60 although I will mention that I have also heard that the Samsung panels like the Samsung PNE6500 seem to do better with image retention.
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post #4239 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremyd5 View Post

I would say so. Mixing up content is exactly what you should be doing. Honestly, I I think you will be very happy with either the ST50 or ST60 although I will mention that I have also heard that the Samsung panels like the Samsung PNE6500 seem to do better with image retention.

It's funny, I still have a soft spot for the Sammy plasmas - based on my mostly positive experience.
& it wasn't a top of the line set either back in the day plus even had a class action suit pinned against it for bad panels.
But it always had a great picture & never let me down.

Thanks again for your comments, I will look a bit more into the Sammys.

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post #4240 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 07:00 PM
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Well, i just put on a white screen and have to say that although the logo seems to have faded a bit literally, it is still there. I notice it and see it, my kids think its better, but...
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post #4241 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 07:09 PM
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I'm going to ask a dumb question. Are 2.35:1 widescreen movies considered full screen content as far as being safe to use for the first 100 hours of break-in or by full screen do they mean 1.78:1 content only?

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post #4242 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 07:48 PM
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My bluray player doesn't have a repeat function, if I plan on getting the WOW disc, will that be an issue?
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post #4243 of 5271 Old 05-21-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MonicaJae View Post

My bluray player doesn't have a repeat function, if I plan on getting the WOW disc, will that be an issue?

If you're talking about Pixel Flipper, repeat won't help you as it is a Java program, not video. Newer players like the Sony S5100 automatically shut off after 30 minutes or so inactivity when running Pixel Flipper. If you have such a player, or even if you don't, and you can hook up a PC, there is a better, free way I wrote about in another forum.
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The problem with the Disney Pixel Flipper is the players. The newer ones like to turn off after a period of inactivity, which includes playing that Java app. For example, the Sony S5100 shuts off after 45 minutes or so. If you can connect a PC, there is Jscreenfix, but the normal version likes to blink 0:00 after 20 minutes in the bottom right corner, and I see no way to disable that behavior. OTOH, the screensaver version doesn't do that, and it's free to boot. But can you believe it, neither one of them hides the mouse while running! Fortunately, that can be fixed in various ways. The simplest is to move the cursor to the bottom left corner, but that still leaves the tip visible. To actually hide it, I use Autohotkey. If you have that program, search its Help file for "SystemCursor". You should find some sample script that binds a mouse visibility toggle to Win+C. It works perfectly. So, after installing Jscreenfix screensaver version, adding the mouse toggler to my main AHK startup script, setting the screensaver timer to 1 minute when I want flip pixels, and using Win+C to hide the mouse, I have a Pixel Flipper equivalent I can leave running overnight. When I don't want to use it, I use Win+C again to show the mouse, and I turn the screensaver back off. (It's on my gaming PC, and normally it's off as I never leave it unattended while using it.) The things we do for our plasmas. rolleyes.gif
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post #4244 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

If you're talking about Pixel Flipper, repeat won't help you as it is a Java program, not video. Newer players like the Sony S5100 automatically shut off after 30 minutes or so inactivity when rnning Pixel Flipper. If you have such a player, or even if you don't, and you can hook up a PC, there is a better, free way I wrote about in another forum.

yeah, not sure i want to spend 30 bucks right now for this... is there a cheaper or free alternative?
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post #4245 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Breaking it in has no effect on IR. Even discussed at the HDTV shootout and confirmed by the experts. You can run slides for 500 hours, it does not mean you will not get IR.

So what the use of break-in then? waste of time?

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post #4246 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

So what the use of break-in then? waste of time?

No, its to age the panel, colors change the more hours you put on it, especially for the first few hundred hours. That's why you shouldn't get a plasma display professionally calibrated until you've 'aged it properly.

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post #4247 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

No, its to age the panel, colors change the more hours you put on it, especially for the first few hundred hours. That's why you shouldn't get a plasma display professionally calibrated until you've 'aged it properly.

So bad plasma IR is essentially the bad luck of the draw then I would imagine.

It's almost like exercising doesn't help you stop a heart attack.
Just has other benefits...

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post #4248 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MonicaJae View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

If you're talking about Pixel Flipper, repeat won't help you as it is a Java program, not video. Newer players like the Sony S5100 automatically shut off after 30 minutes or so inactivity when rnning Pixel Flipper. If you have such a player, or even if you don't, and you can hook up a PC, there is a better, free way I wrote about in another forum.

yeah, not sure i want to spend 30 bucks right now for this... is there a cheaper or free alternative?

Does the "better, free way" I wrote about in my message count?
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post #4249 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 02:45 PM
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the free way is to download the slides, you place them on a usb drive and run it. or you could also download a cartoon that you know is in 1080P and is logo free and loop that. but really if you want the best way to repair your screen the wow disc is it. I broke and spent the money on a low cast LG bluray player and a copy of wow disc from amazon. never looked back. it's well worth the money to have this disc, because it cleans up the image so well and it's even. it didn't solve all of my problems yet as i still have the dirty screen effect on the right side of the screen, most people have that. I also have burn-in from my cable box, SHAW) CABLE LOGO. I want to make sure if someone types Shaw 3400 PVR into Google they find this and maybe just maybe Shaw will fix it. I have contacted them on the matter but feel it landed on deaf ears..

the wow disc makes my plasma tv look better even after a very short time, the picture has got a lot less IR on it now and looks almost normal again. the logo is looking a bit faded but clearly still there.

I would buy the disc and get on with your life. that or sell the tv, what ever works best for you. problem with selling the tv, is there is a lot of them already on the market for sell. so Good luck.. btw test the disc first before you run it over night. run it for a hour,look at the picture see if it's ok, then what i would do is run the disc with the tv turned off, next day check to see if the player is still playing the disc and not running a screen saver. now you know if your player will work alright. I keep my wow disc playing in the background and on during the day when I am around. I don't leave it on over night. but I have run it for 12 or so hours so far. like i said it does look better.

BTW the Pixel Flipper is only on the bluray editon of the wow disc and not the dvd version because it's a program. I learned that the hard way and now own it on both formats.

MonicaJae. the Pixel Flipper will run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player. I am not sure what other people are talking about it timing out as it's written to run as long as you leave it. if it doesn't well your in luck your living in a age of less then 100 dollar bluray players, enjoy your new player..LOL just make sure screen saver mode is off, on everything, plus VIERA Link if it has it, that turns the tv remote into the bluray remote. turn that off too.

I found out the hard way, you need to make sure picture mode is set to full screen mode2. You'll notice if the image has wavy lines in it that your screen is in the wrong aspect ratio, there is a good test for this on the disc that explains it better then I can here. some times it's called overscan mode, you want that off.
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post #4250 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Does the "better, free way" I wrote about in my message count?

For the option "To enable the repair modes to function for over 20 minutes per session you must purchase a licence."
Isn't that the idea for the fix in the first place?

Also, the free option only seems to be for stuck pixels, which just seems to me, by way of syntax at least, to be the incorrect solution. The site has a totally different 'fix' for IR. Or do i need to brush up on my English?
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post #4251 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonicaJae View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Does the "better, free way" I wrote about in my message count?

For the option "To enable the repair modes to function for over 20 minutes per session you must purchase a licence."
Isn't that the idea for the fix in the first place?

Also, the free option only seems to be for stuck pixels, which just seems to me, by way of syntax at least, to be the incorrect solution. The site has a totally different 'fix' for IR. Or do i need to brush up on my English?

Like I said, "the screensaver version ... is free to boot". I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to. I wouldn't have described it as "a Pixel Flipper equivalent" if it wasn't exactly that.
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post #4252 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarrycanada View Post

the free way is to download the slides, you place them on a usb drive and run it. or you could also download a cartoon that you know is in 1080P and is logo free and loop that. but really if you want the best way to repair your screen the wow disc is it. I broke and spent the money on a low cast LG bluray player and a copy of wow disc from amazon. never looked back. it's well worth the money to have this disc, because it cleans up the image so well and it's even. it didn't solve all of my problems yet as i still have the dirty screen effect on the right side of the screen, most people have that. I also have burn-in from my cable box, SHAW) CABLE LOGO. I want to make sure if someone types Shaw 3400 PVR into Google they find this and maybe just maybe Shaw will fix it. I have contacted them on the matter but feel it landed on deaf ears..

the wow disc makes my plasma tv look better even after a very short time, the picture has got a lot less IR on it now and looks almost normal again. the logo is looking a bit faded but clearly still there.

I would buy the disc and get on with your life. that or sell the tv, what ever works best for you. problem with selling the tv, is there is a lot of them already on the market for sell. so Good luck.. btw test the disc first before you run it over night. run it for a hour,look at the picture see if it's ok, then what i would do is run the disc with the tv turned off, next day check to see if the player is still playing the disc and not running a screen saver. now you know if your player will work alright. I keep my wow disc playing in the background and on during the day when I am around. I don't leave it on over night. but I have run it for 12 or so hours so far. like i said it does look better.

BTW the Pixel Flipper is only on the bluray editon of the wow disc and not the dvd version because it's a program. I learned that the hard way and now own it on both formats.

MonicaJae. the Pixel Flipper will run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player. I am not sure what other people are talking about it timing out as it's written to run as long as you leave it. if it doesn't well your in luck your living in a age of less then 100 dollar bluray players, enjoy your new player..LOL just make sure screen saver mode is off, on everything, plus VIERA Link if it has it, that turns the tv remote into the bluray remote. turn that off too.

I found out the hard way, you need to make sure picture mode is set to full screen mode2. You'll notice if the image has wavy lines in it that your screen is in the wrong aspect ratio, there is a good test for this on the disc that explains it better then I can here. some times it's called overscan mode, you want that off.

Yeah, about the " run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player" part, i think you need to check yourself with that. My blu-ray player, not DVD player, does NOT run forever. Actually, It is a Sony and will run for the length of the title or chapter you choose, but not loop nor repeat nor "other".

And I don't think I need someone to tell me that I may need to sell my TV. I think I'm well aware of my options, being the adult i am. dunno, just sayin. And although that is an option, I never really thought about it as a viable one. That little ditty right there just straight confused me. I think that being the practical consumer i believe myself to be, i try to exhaust at least most possibilities that i can. and the comment "I would buy the disc and get on with your life." Really? if you don't like reading about my burn-in/ir posts in a thread devoted succinctly to those very issues, i think you should get off this forum and get on with your life.

"BTW the Pixel Flipper is only on the bluray editon of the wow disc and not the dvd version because it's a program. I learned that the hard way and now own it on both formats.

MonicaJae. the Pixel Flipper will run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player. I am not sure what other people are talking about it timing out as it's written to run as long as you leave it. if it doesn't well your in luck your living in a age of less then 100 dollar bluray players, enjoy your new player..LOL just make sure screen saver mode is off, on everything, plus VIERA Link if it has it, that turns the tv remote into the bluray remote. turn that off too. " ok a couple of things here, shall i break it down for you? yeah, why not:

"BTW the Pixel Flipper is only on the bluray editon of the wow disc" alright stop right there. Isn't that essentially the one I want? and to repeat ad nauseum: I OWN A BLURAY PLAYER.

Ok, so wait a tick, if the PF is a PROGRAM, why is it bluray specific? didn't know bluray players ran applications? cool where is that button on my remote or menu choice? (sony bd player)
"MonicaJae. the Pixel Flipper will run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player" lather, rinse, repeat
" I learned that the hard way and now own it on both formats." well, just cuz you're an idiot, don't assume everyone else is.
" I am not sure what other people are talking about it timing out as it's written to run as long as you leave it" anyone else wanna touch this or are you gonna leave ALL the dirty work for me?

" You'll notice if the image has wavy lines in it that your screen is in the wrong aspect ratio, there is a good test for this on the disc that explains it better then I can here. some times it's called overscan mode, you want that off" i do know a little about aspect ratios. besides, i think the average layman is pretty used to the idea of AR by now 'in this day and age' kinda a no brainer thing. My ex, also a member of this forum is a videophile, yet, don't really want to have to name names unless i really must feel it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY go that route. I never claimed to be a total noob in relation to this subject at all, that said, I am almost surely the noobiest noob when it comes to plasmas. That is a fact.

"the free way is to download the slides, you place them on a usb drive and run it. " So glad to have you around to clear that up for me. You keepin up with this? feel free to read my previous posts. i think i mention the use of running slides, etc, in most of them. Maybe you are on to something? moving on...
" it didn't solve all of my problems yet as i still have the dirty screen effect on the right side of the screen, most people have that." sorry, can you point out whom? i'm not on these forums all the time, so if you could just give me an idea, that would be awesome. I don't think i have dirty screen effect.

Well, i think i could go on. However i have children to attend to. and now i'm getting bored. oh, i will consider those who have suggested the WOW disc. including you wink.gif it does seem the route one should take. is one better than the other? bd vs dvd? or would either format work and if so, then i can just run it from the lappy. yeah, i have been aware of the ability to hook one's laptop up to a monitor/screen for over 15 years.

honestly, after reading your reply to my post, i think you have WAY more issues with your PDP than I have with mine. Thanks for your input, tho. much appreciated.
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post #4253 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Like I said, "the screensaver version ... is free to boot". I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to. I wouldn't have described it as "a Pixel Flipper equivalent" if it wasn't exactly that.

yes i recall reading that on the site. JScreenfix is stuck pixel specific. JScreenfix Deluxe is what the site recommends for IR. the Special Edition is for...what? also, citing the site:

"Dark patches on an LCD or plasma screen are the result of image persistence. Image persistence (sometimes known as burn-in) occurs if an area of the screen does not change for a long period of time. TV channel logos, for example, often leave such marks on the screen." apparently they didn't know that IP/IR is not the same as BI? i feel comfortable, noob or not, mentioning that. and i do understand what you convey with the "free" option. however i don't think it's appropriate for my situation. but that's my opinion based upon what i've been learning. But, i could be wrong.
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post #4254 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 08:24 PM
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So bad plasma IR is essentially the bad luck of the draw then I would imagine.

It's almost like exercising doesn't help you stop a heart attack.
Just has other benefits...

+1
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post #4255 of 5271 Old 05-22-2013, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonicaJae View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Like I said, "the screensaver version ... is free to boot". I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to. I wouldn't have described it as "a Pixel Flipper equivalent" if it wasn't exactly that.

yes i recall reading that on the site. JScreenfix is stuck pixel specific. JScreenfix Deluxe is what the site recommends for IR. the Special Edition is for...what? also, citing the site:

"Dark patches on an LCD or plasma screen are the result of image persistence. Image persistence (sometimes known as burn-in) occurs if an area of the screen does not change for a long period of time. TV channel logos, for example, often leave such marks on the screen." apparently they didn't know that IP/IR is not the same as BI? i feel comfortable, noob or not, mentioning that. and i do understand what you convey with the "free" option. however i don't think it's appropriate for my situation. but that's my opinion based upon what i've been learning. But, i could be wrong.

What I told you was accurate and very specific. Try it or not.
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What I told you was accurate and very specific. Try it or not.

Mmm Okay
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Does the "better, free way" I wrote about in my message count?

What is the "link" for your original post in another thread? Thanks.
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post #4258 of 5271 Old 05-23-2013, 09:43 AM
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What I told you was accurate and very specific. Try it or not.

Fwiw, I could not find the screens saver version either. I ran into the same license issue so I just lost interest. I think things may have changed since you did it. Or very possibly I didn't understand how to achieve your findings..
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Type jscreenfix into google. The first hit is:

http://www.jscreenfix.com/

At the bottom of that page:

Special Edition

JScreenFix Windows Screensaver Edition *Free

Click on that link and it takes to a page where you can download it.

This is as straightforward as the Internet gets, and everything is exactly as I said it was then and now.

ETA: Heck, googling /jscreenfix screensaver/ returns its download page as the first hit.
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Type jscreenfix into google. The first hit is:

http://www.jscreenfix.com/

At the bottom of that page:

Special Edition

JScreenFix Windows Screensaver Edition *Free

Click on that link and it takes to a page where you can download it.

This is as straightforward as the Internet gets, and everything is exactly as I said it was then and now.

ETA: Heck, googling /jscreenfix screensaver/ returns its download page as the first hit.

Sorry, I realize this subject is being beaten to death, but I read in one of your posts above: "I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to.", I did NOT know it pertained to JScreenFix, I am aware of that, but have no means to connect a laptop to use this Java based app. I thought there may be something I can place on a USB memory stick and play that on my VT50 if and when needed. I have colored slides, and some other "Pixel Jogger" files found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer

I guess at some point I'll get the WOW disk, but just purchased the Spears & Munsil 2nd Edition BlueRay disk, which if one is not having IR problems is more valuable and worth it. Again, sorry, but I thought you had some other "Pixel Flipper" files that might work on a USB stick. Thanks.
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