Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 5369 Old 05-31-2008, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraV View Post

Need a bit of help discerning whether a mark on my tv is burn-in, image retention or a faulty component inside the set itself. TV model is a samsung LCD LE2641RB (I think) and had the power supply replaced last year due to the infamous faults this TV is prone to developing. Anyway, just recently I have noticed a single black line starting from about an inch from the top of the screen and going straight down.

I did a bit of research on google and someone said that a single black vertical line might be a faulty component. However, the line is not solid black, top to bottom - its faded at the very top, and becomes darker until its about 50% down the screen, then fades away to being invisible at the bottom half.

Now, the set displays in 1080i/720p most of the time for PS3/x360, and TV viewing. I spend a lot of time using the ps2 through component input though, and this particular setup leaves 2 thin black bars on either side of the image (even in 16:9 - something to do with "overscan" in older system or something) Now, this "vertical black line" matches up exactly with the left border when playing ps2 games, however I would have though that there would be another matching black line on the right hand side of the set, however there isn't. I would also have surmised that the entire "left border" side of the screen would be subject to this "black line" effect, but it isn't the case - its just a single line.

The black line doesn't show up on an all black or all white screen, but is visible to varying degrees on all other colours.

So my question is, I'm 90% sure this has been caused by excessive use of the bordered ps2 mode but I don't know if its image retention, burn in or a faulty component.

Can anyone help, I'm running a pure white screen on the set as often as possible (though I'm not sure whether this is having any effect), but I've been using the ps2 this way for years and honestly couldn't calculate the amount of hours i'd need to "reverse it" this way, and the problem has only become noticeable within the last month.

Secondly, would displaying "something" other than a black line in the affected area (ie: normal fullscreen tv viewing) also potentially counteract the black line effect as the white screen is supposed to?

Sorry if this is difficult to understand but its hard to explain. The Tv is still within warranty but I'm not sure where I'd stand with this kind of issue. The black line doesn't ruin anything but I certainly don't want it getting any worse.

Thanks in advance, hope this is the right place to post this.

being an lcd and the way you descrbie i believe it´s a faulty component.
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post #452 of 5369 Old 05-31-2008, 06:08 AM
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thanks for the quick response, if it is indeed a faulty component I take it the manufacturers would be liable to fix/exchange it since its in warranty?
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post #453 of 5369 Old 05-31-2008, 06:19 AM
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yeap, they should call them.
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post #454 of 5369 Old 05-31-2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottoms View Post

I agree LCD would be better . I have a 4270 Pio and with 2000 hours ( always looked out for Burn-In , oh sorry IR ) I GOT IT by watching 3-4 hours of the NFL draft . THE BAD THING IS THE LOGO is in the upper right hand corner of my set 2"x4" with the words on the clock . Thought after 2000 hours I would be imune , but I guessed wrong . I also have my TV back in the shop ,it's 2 months out of warranty ,but Pioneer will cover the repair . So what I am saying is "Plasma's" you still have to be careful , but when I purchase again (50+ size) I am 99% sure it will be a PIO . Don't like the IR ,but love the PQ. I have been viewing my Sharp Aquos and it's nice ,but for HD you need a PLASMA!!!!!!!!!

Well my IR is compleatly gone!!!!! My Pio is back from the shop and they put in a whole new pannel(not because of IR there was an issue with the board and a thin black thin appeared on the screen)The PQ is better than before

Pioneer 4270 Yamaha RX-V1800 PS 3 Paradigm CC 110 Panasonic 42 X24
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post #455 of 5369 Old 05-31-2008, 10:31 PM
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15hs left until i reach 100hs break in period! can´t wait!... i want to give my tv a break, it´s been on since yesterday running the break in dvd loop over and over.
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post #456 of 5369 Old 06-01-2008, 06:39 AM
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[quote=Zenjabil;13971503]Its definitely burn in (or more correctly uneven wear), and not IR. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and have since switched to near constant 16:9 viewing (by stretching 4:3 signals), but still have the same issue, i.e. the side bars are slightly lighter than the mid section of the screen. I have about 4,000 hrs on the TV (approx 1 yr old) and 4:3 material is about 40 - 50% of what the TV is used for (albeit always w/ side bars in gray).

The uneven wear is noticeable on about 10% of viewing material, typically with a white or light blue background etc. The picture is still great, I just want to accelerate the wear on the sidebars (by having them white with the rest of the screen black (presumably overnight for several days) so that the panel exhibits the same degree of wear all over.

I am having this exact same problem with my 60 inch vizio plasma. have been using pixel protector dvd and an inverse 4:3 pattern that i burned to dvd. has anyone had any luck clearing up this uneven phosfor wear and if so how?
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post #457 of 5369 Old 06-01-2008, 04:06 PM
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I'm around 120 hours on my 50PX80U, do you guys think it would be OK to throw on Star wars in 2:35:1?
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post #458 of 5369 Old 06-01-2008, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikinguy View Post

I'm around 120 hours on my 50PX80U, do you guys think it would be OK to throw on Star wars in 2:35:1?

Go for it!
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post #459 of 5369 Old 06-01-2008, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Pineapple View Post

Go for it!



lol, actually i just checked and i'm at 142 hours. I think I'm gonna do it.
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post #460 of 5369 Old 06-01-2008, 08:11 PM
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I have used my LG 50PB4D from day one without too much regard for IR. I only ever get very faint IR with high contrast logos...which disappears quite quickly.
Will be getting a Panny 42"800 series soon...love plasma!

Be kind...it really is that simple.
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post #461 of 5369 Old 06-01-2008, 10:20 PM
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[quote=flip034;13989105]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenjabil View Post

Its definitely burn in (or more correctly uneven wear), and not IR. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and have since switched to near constant 16:9 viewing (by stretching 4:3 signals), but still have the same issue, i.e. the side bars are slightly lighter than the mid section of the screen. I have about 4,000 hrs on the TV (approx 1 yr old) and 4:3 material is about 40 - 50% of what the TV is used for (albeit always w/ side bars in gray).

The uneven wear is noticeable on about 10% of viewing material, typically with a white or light blue background etc. The picture is still great, I just want to accelerate the wear on the sidebars (by having them white with the rest of the screen black (presumably overnight for several days) so that the panel exhibits the same degree of wear all over.

I am having this exact same problem with my 60 inch vizio plasma. have been using pixel protector dvd and an inverse 4:3 pattern that i burned to dvd. has anyone had any luck clearing up this uneven phosfor wear and if so how?

How precise/exact is this inverse 4:3 pattern that you've burned to DVD? Do you have a genuine 1920x1080 hd image (white sidebars and black middle), or do you have a SD image that is being upscaled by your player or the TV. The reason I ask is b/c I would think you would need a genuine 1920x1080 HD image of an inverse 4:3 pattern to make sure the side bars lined up EXACTLY (with no overlap), so as to ensure the accelerated wear you're creating in the side bars doesn't result in a thin line caused by a 1 or 2 pixel thick zone of overlap (or falling short of exactly lining up).

How long have you been using this inverse pattern BTW? Any results thus far?
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post #462 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 06:10 AM
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I have a Panny TH-50PX600U with just over 2,900 hours. I took great care in breaking the TV in, running the break in DVD, when I bought it in September 06.

I watched Band of Brothers most of the day yesterday on the History Channel HD. The watermark caused a very slight IR on the lower right part of the display. The 'history.com' watermark is only noticable on a white or light grey background. I don't notice the watermark on dark colors.

The IR was still there this morning so I started running the break in DVD for about the last hour or so. I am seeing an improvement and it looks like the IR is starting to go away.

Assuming it goes away completely, should I consider myself lucky? I know it's not bullet proof, but I thought Panny plasmas were among the best displays for burn in. Shouldn't 3,000 hours of use be plenty of break in time?

I watch a TON of sports and never had a problem until yesterday.
I don't watch History HD that much but that watermark must be very intense.
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post #463 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 09:54 AM
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What exactly happens if I leave black bars on too long? I have a Panasonic 800U. and have watched a few movies with black bars along the top.. should I be worried? I have not run any break in.. Have used THX mode almost the entire time.

Do I need to run break-in if I just watch THX full screen material?

And if I do run break in, do I have to put up the brightness and contrast.. is contrast caleld picture on the Panasonic?


Is there anyway to check how long I have been watching the TV, through the TV?

Thanks for everyones help!
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post #464 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modestyle View Post

What exactly happens if I leave black bars on too long?

If you were to display images with black bars too often, after a period of time (weeks, months, years?), when you display full screen content, the portion of the image where the black bars were displayed would appear brighter than the rest of the image on the screen; because the phosphors were not aged evenly across the entire screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modestyle View Post

I have a Panasonic 800U. and have watched a “few” movies with black bars along the top.. should I be worried?

No, just try to keep in mind how many hours the black bars were displayed and follow it up by 3X that duration with full screen content.
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post #465 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 12:50 PM
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New to the forum - been lurking for a few months - awesome resource btw

I have a TH-46PZ850 coming this week and plan to run the break-in images from a slide show on an SD card. Anybody had any issues or comments regarding the pros and cons of DVD vs SD break-in?

Steve

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post #466 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrover View Post

New to the forum - been lurking for a few months - awesome resource btw

I have a TH-46PZ850 coming this week and plan to run the break-in images from a slide show on an SD card. Anybody had any issues or comments regarding the pros and cons of DVD vs SD break-in?

Steve

i did the dvd via my PC did 100hs i think you should be fine both ways.
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post #467 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booker21 View Post

i did the dvd via my PC did 100hs i think you should be fine both ways.

.. so booker, you got the 4254, right; how it working out for you? seemed hestitate last time i caught a post of yours.
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post #468 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 05:22 PM
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Here a report on my burn-in experience. I just got a new LG 42PG20 and have ran about 60 hours of the break-in video plus about 10 hours of movie with full screen. I've decided to play a lil PS3 on my tv so I popped in GTA4 and played for about 3 to 4 hours... Well it looks like the life "ring" is sorta burnt on the bottom left of my screen... I don't know how severe it is, but I can definitely see it while I'm running my break-in dvd....

sigh... that's all... I can only hope for the best...
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post #469 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 05:36 PM
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Let me try to rephrase what this break-in dvd is about...if burning-in is a result of the phosphors not aging evenly, then there should be a point where aging has less impact on the "color change" (I'm using this term to represent how a burnt in image is lighter). I guess that's the whole point of the break-in dvd.

Here's my question: If I keep playing my break-in dvd to try to age my set evenly even with my burnt in logo, eventually, for the burnt in black ring area, 300 hours of even color plus 3 hours of black ring should look the same as 300 hours of even color..... right? Meaning the impact those 3 hours had is lesser on 1000 hours than 500 hours than 300 hours etc...
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post #470 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel'son View Post

.. so booker, you got the 4254, right; how it working out for you? seemed hestitate last time i caught a post of yours.


Hi,
Yes i bought it last Monday, i already end the break in period, i left running the break in dvd for around a week, i passed the 100hs mark already.

So far so good, i see IR very quick on this set,though. leaving the tv menu for example, on a dark screen will get IR, but it goes away as soon as i get any picture on the screen.
I did game a while too, and so far, no IR lasted for longer than seconds. The biggest IR i got was a scoreboard from a soccer game i watched, which was gone after 30 min of watching normal programming.

Anyways, this IR doesn´t even bother me, i can only see it on a completely dark room and on completely black screen. Sooner or later they go away. So far no IR on white, so as you can see no big deal at all.

My conclusion:
IR and BI sounds 10x worst on the Internet and this forum. Unless you are using the tv as a Monitor or on a bright room you should go to plasma technology.
Black levels, contrast, are amazing! Nothing compared to my old LCD tv. Now i get that feeling when you say, " now i have to watch and play all my movies and games, again" because it´s like a night n day difference!

really happy so far.
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post #471 of 5369 Old 06-02-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyc123 View Post

Here's my question: If I keep playing my break-in dvd to try to age my set evenly even with my burnt in logo, eventually, for the burnt in black ring area, 300 hours of even color plus 3 hours of black ring should look the same as 300 hours of even color..... right? Meaning the impact those 3 hours had is lesser on 1000 hours than 500 hours than 300 hours etc...

given my limited understanding and experience with plasmas, i'd say this is correct. i'd also say that you likely won't need 300 hours of the break-in dvd to get rid of it - reading about people's experiences, IR usually corrects within a few hours max, even early on in the set's lifetime.

i myself am on 87 hours of break-in in my 50PZ800U, so i haven't tested the ps3 yet, but gta4 will likely be one of the first things i try once 100 hours is up. i am hoping i can avoid this type of IR myself once my break-in is over.
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post #472 of 5369 Old 06-03-2008, 10:19 AM
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Please help, i have tried all 3 formats on the break in dvd website. I have tried the sd memory card as well. Still i can not get the break in dvd to play. Tried 3 different dvd players as well. I am awaiting my pz800u today and will like to get this broken in right away. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips on the best way to burn this break in dvd? Thanks so much
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post #473 of 5369 Old 06-03-2008, 10:47 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by kyc123
Here a report on my burn-in experience. I just got a new LG 42PG20 and have ran about 60 hours of the break-in video plus about 10 hours of movie with full screen. I've decided to play a lil PS3 on my tv so I popped in GTA4 and played for about 3 to 4 hours... Well it looks like the life "ring" is sorta burnt on the bottom left of my screen... I don't know how severe it is, but I can definitely see it while I'm running my break-in dvd....

sigh... that's all... I can only hope for the best...

Your LG should have 3 IR prevention modes. Well, actually, one IR prevention mode and two IR removal modes.

Go to Picture -> Options -> Image Sticking Minimization

I have mine set for Orbit normally. It moves things around in an...Orbit...when the set detects a static image for too long.

There is also a reverse mode which kind of looks like a film negative and...

White wash. It is this latter mode that will probably fix your issue. As the name implies, it turns the entire screen bright white and washes away retained images. Try it for three minutes and see if that helps. If not, rinse and repeat.

I talked with an LG tech rep about this issue and he really had no reason to give me bum scoop as he wasn't on commission. Anyway, he indicated that it would be darn near impossible to get true burn-in on any 2007+ model LG.

There were a lot of technical reasons including pixel shifting ect, but the most basic one had to do with phosphor life. This current crop of sets has about 100k hours to 1/2 brightness. Which means that assuming you stuck a blazing red logo in the middle of a black background for 10 hours straight, you would burn through far less than 1/10,000th of that area's phosphor.

His point was that, worst case, 9-12 hours of normal viewing should clear up the IR you are seeing. Or 2-8 minutes of using the white wash mode. He suggested 2 minutes, check, 3 minutes, check, and then a final 3 minutes.

Please let us know how it turns out.

pax,
rwr
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post #474 of 5369 Old 06-04-2008, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booker21 View Post

Hi,
Yes i bought it last Monday, i already end the break in period, i left running the break in dvd for around a week, i passed the 100hs mark already.

So far so good, i see IR very quick on this set,though. leaving the tv menu for example, on a dark screen will get IR, but it goes away as soon as i get any picture on the screen.
I did game a while too, and so far, no IR lasted for longer than seconds. The biggest IR i got was a scoreboard from a soccer game i watched, which was gone after 30 min of watching normal programming.

Anyways, this IR doesn´t even bother me, i can only see it on a completely dark room and on completely black screen. Sooner or later they go away. So far no IR on white, so as you can see no big deal at all.

My conclusion:
IR and BI sounds 10x worst on the Internet and this forum. Unless you are using the tv as a Monitor or on a bright room you should go to plasma technology.
Black levels, contrast, are amazing! Nothing compared to my old LCD tv. Now i get that feeling when you say, " now i have to watch and play all my movies and games, again" because it´s like a night n day difference!

really happy so far.

.. very good; glad you're enjoying your new set. your location made selecting a good one quite difficult. its understandable (of course), your discourse. yes, i'm recycling previous favorites also. best to you.
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post #475 of 5369 Old 06-04-2008, 11:23 AM
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Recently picked up a Samsung PN42A450, is there a certain length of time I should run the Break-In Disc?

I was reading elsewhere and apparently some people say new Samsung Plasmas / LCDs don't require to be broken in and should be ready for viewing right out of the box. Is there any truth to this or just Samsung hyping their TVs?
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post #476 of 5369 Old 06-04-2008, 12:07 PM
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most newer sets don't have any official break in notice, and shouldn't technically need it. doing it is up to you, but officially just follow your owner's manual.
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post #477 of 5369 Old 06-04-2008, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nFerno View Post

Recently picked up a Samsung PN42A450, is there a certain length of time I should run the Break-In Disc?

I was reading elsewhere and apparently some people say new Samsung Plasmas / LCDs don't require to be broken in and should be ready for viewing right out of the box. Is there any truth to this or just Samsung hyping their TVs?

just do it, you have nothing to loose. I ran the dvd for 1 week, everytime i was not watching the tv. I already hit 100hs marks.
Now i´m using the tv as a .. well... as a tv

Enjoy your set and don´t get this IR/BI bother you.
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post #478 of 5369 Old 06-04-2008, 12:46 PM
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Running the DVD now, might as well let it crank out when I'm away for the weekend. Better safe than sorry I'm sure.
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post #479 of 5369 Old 06-04-2008, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nFerno View Post

Running the DVD now, might as well let it crank out when I'm away for the weekend. Better safe than sorry I'm sure.

exactly. You do it now and then you don´t think about IR/BI any more. Just be careful as you were with any other tv.
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post #480 of 5369 Old 06-04-2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwr1776 View Post

Your LG should have 3 IR prevention modes. Well, actually, one IR prevention mode and two IR removal modes.

Go to Picture -> Options -> Image Sticking Minimization

I have mine set for Orbit normally. It moves things around in an...Orbit...when the set detects a static image for too long.

There is also a reverse mode which kind of looks like a film negative and...

White wash. It is this latter mode that will probably fix your issue. As the name implies, it turns the entire screen bright white and washes away retained images. Try it for three minutes and see if that helps. If not, rinse and repeat.

I talked with an LG tech rep about this issue and he really had no reason to give me bum scoop as he wasn't on commission. Anyway, he indicated that it would be darn near impossible to get true burn-in on any 2007+ model LG.

There were a lot of technical reasons including pixel shifting ect, but the most basic one had to do with phosphor life. This current crop of sets has about 100k hours to 1/2 brightness. Which means that assuming you stuck a blazing red logo in the middle of a black background for 10 hours straight, you would burn through far less than 1/10,000th of that area's phosphor.

His point was that, worst case, 9-12 hours of normal viewing should clear up the IR you are seeing. Or 2-8 minutes of using the white wash mode. He suggested 2 minutes, check, 3 minutes, check, and then a final 3 minutes.

Please let us know how it turns out.

pax,
rwr

Thank you for your very informative post. I didn't know that the white wash mode for 8 minutes equates to 12 hours of normal viewing... Good to know, just in case...

Good news is, the ring has disappeared after playing 3 hours of the break-in dvd... But I'm still a little scared about playing games on my set, so I'll play sparingly only once I hit 200 hours... just in case...
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