Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 174 - AVS Forum
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post #5191 of 5310 Old 04-11-2014, 06:11 PM
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I am using Evangelo's 1080p images on a USB stick to break in my new 64" Samsung plasma. I don't know if I have the heart to go the full 150 hours but intend too do it 24-48 hours. I am curious though; does anyone understand the reasoning in the individual red, green, and blue slides? It seems unnecessary as the gray-scale slides have red, green, and blue cells illuminated anyways.

Thanks,
"goes to eleven"
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post #5192 of 5310 Old 04-12-2014, 10:15 AM
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I have a TC-P55VT60 with horrible IR. I've completed calibration (short of advanced techniques) using CALMAN 5 Calman Control for Home Video, and picture looks great when an image is on the screen. If I put the TV on HDMI 1, which is the input from the receiver, I can see significant IR (the Smart Viera logo from Panasonic, which I really want to stop from appearing), and outlines of other images. If I then change to HDMI2, it's pretty clean - no IR that I can see.

Was at a friends yesterday that has a 2012 Sharp Elite, and the blacks are impossibly inky, with not a single bit of IR (it's an LCD). It makes me realize how poor the blacks are, or rather, how much IR I have in dark scenes. Overall, this IR has made me wish I'd NOT purchased the VT60 in December. It's supposed to have the best picture quality, almost among any display, but that horrible IR has me feeling otherwise.
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post #5193 of 5310 Old 04-12-2014, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 View Post

If I put the TV on HDMI 1, which is the input from the receiver, I can see significant IR (the Smart Viera logo from Panasonic, which I really want to stop from appearing), and outlines of other images. If I then change to HDMI2, it's pretty clean - no IR that I can see.

I don't see how IR could vary all that much between inputs unless its just less visible with different brightness settings etc. And if that was the case just try the settings that result in less perceived IR.

Not to mention this Elite vs Panny article.

http://www.cnet.com/news/panasonic-st50-vs-sharp-elite-pro-how-much-would-you-pay/
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post #5194 of 5310 Old 04-12-2014, 12:28 PM
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Interesting. I thought the same thing last night when I compared HDMI1 vs HDMI2 vs HDMI3. After reading your post, I again checked these 3 inputs, and found the IR to be about the same - I couldn't see any. I'd say the TV had time for the IR to fade, since it hadn't been watched from late last night to about 11:30 PM when I checked again.

Regardless, while watching movies, TV, managing Roku menu, etc., IR is very noticeable. As I said, picture looks fantastic when an image is actually on the screen, but the dark in-between scenes reveals much IR. I even noticed IR from my Roku main menu during the opening dark scenes of a movie. That's really distracting.

It's not a debatable point - I see what I see, and compared even to my 2005 Pro Panasonic plasma (monitor only), this VT60 has so much IR, that before I installed this TV in Dec '13, I didn't know what IR was.

Bottom line is I wasn't aware it would be so distracting, and I find it disappointing.
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post #5195 of 5310 Old 04-15-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goze211 View Post

I am using Evangelo's 1080p images on a USB stick to break in my new 64" Samsung plasma. I don't know if I have the heart to go the full 150 hours but intend too do it 24-48 hours. I am curious though; does anyone understand the reasoning in the individual red, green, and blue slides? It seems unnecessary as the gray-scale slides have red, green, and blue cells illuminated anyways.

Thanks,
"goes to eleven"

The colored slides add in aging your plasma phosphors evenly.
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post #5196 of 5310 Old 04-15-2014, 07:05 PM
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How many hours recommended before I can watch movies with black bars top and bottom?
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post #5197 of 5310 Old 04-15-2014, 07:16 PM
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I assumed as long as you mixed content you would be just fine. I've watched numerous black bar films (just not one after another) and the screen is flawless on my display. I've never had to use any screen wipe/pixel flippers-joggers or whatever they're called.
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post #5198 of 5310 Old 04-16-2014, 01:12 AM
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Cool. Thanks
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post #5199 of 5310 Old 04-17-2014, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasma5300 View Post

How many hours recommended before I can watch movies with black bars top and bottom?

Most recommend 100-150 hours. I had my panel calibrated so I ran my ST50 for two weeks straight w/o ever shutting it off. I ran slides whenever I was not watching the panel and watched 2.35:1 movies and gamed minimally during this period as well. My panel suffered no ill effects. 90% of that time I watched full screen logo free content.
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post #5200 of 5310 Old 04-20-2014, 12:55 PM
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I finally watched a movie with black bars top and bottom. Almost a 2 hour movie. AfterwardsI could see slight ir. Also watched vikings tv show on history channel and i could see the H in the corner afterwards slighly on light gray screen. It all went away after around 5 -10 minutes. Is this normal or something to be concerned about?
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post #5201 of 5310 Old 04-20-2014, 02:12 PM
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That is normal temporary IR that fades quickly. Nothing to worry about.
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post #5202 of 5310 Old 04-20-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post

That is normal temporary IR that fades quickly. Nothing to worry about.
Thanks! Haha Wife was like "you broke your tv!" Haha. She adding fuel to the fire didnt help much! Haha
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post #5203 of 5310 Old 04-21-2014, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasma5300 View Post

Thanks! Haha Wife was like "you broke your tv!" Haha. She adding fuel to the fire didnt help much! Haha

Color slides are useful for exposing IR. That said, if your IR is not visible under normal TV viewing it is not a problem. On my panel, I have not had any IR that has interrupted my regular viewing of TV and movies. From time to time I check for IR with color slides and there may be a bit that shows up on one or two slides which for me is not an issue.

If you are really concerned, you can get the Disney WoW blu ray and run the pixel flipper overnight once a month or so. This can help with any nuisance IR.

Enjoy your panel.
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post #5204 of 5310 Old 04-21-2014, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post

Color slides are useful for exposing IR. That said, if your IR is not visible under normal TV viewing it is not a problem. On my panel, I have not had any IR that has interrupted my regular viewing of TV and movies. From time to time I check for IR with color slides and there may be a bit that shows up on one or two slides which for me is not an issue.

If you are really concerned, you can get the Disney WoW blu ray and run the pixel flipper overnight once a month or so. This can help with any nuisance IR.

Enjoy your panel.
Yea i could only really see it using the built in tv gray color slides faintly. I purchased the WOW disc to help calibrate the tv when I bought the tv but Im actually satisfied with standard settings wothout tweeking much. Thanks for the response!
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post #5205 of 5310 Old 04-22-2014, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 View Post

I have a TC-P55VT60 with horrible IR. I've completed calibration (short of advanced techniques) using CALMAN 5 Calman Control for Home Video, and picture looks great when an image is on the screen. If I put the TV on HDMI 1, which is the input from the receiver, I can see significant IR (the Smart Viera logo from Panasonic, which I really want to stop from appearing), and outlines of other images. If I then change to HDMI2, it's pretty clean - no IR that I can see.

Was at a friends yesterday that has a 2012 Sharp Elite, and the blacks are impossibly inky, with not a single bit of IR (it's an LCD). It makes me realize how poor the blacks are, or rather, how much IR I have in dark scenes. Overall, this IR has made me wish I'd NOT purchased the VT60 in December. It's supposed to have the best picture quality, almost among any display, but that horrible IR has me feeling otherwise.


I have lucked out and found a new ST60 at a local B&M store (long story) but hesitant to buy due to concerns with S/ST/VT susceptibility to IR.  Can I ask how your VT60 got IR?

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post #5206 of 5310 Old 04-22-2014, 07:53 PM
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I don't know. I had a pro Panasonic plasma bought new in '05, and it never had IR. How do new plasmas get IR? I honestly don't know. I thought IR was simply a trait of some plasma displays. It's really bad, though. Was at a friend's today, and they have a Sony LCD, that showed zero traces of IR. And I have another friend with a Sharp Elite LCD (from '11 or '12) and it has zero IR. If I knew back in December when I now know about this plasma and IR, I wouldn't have purchased it.
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post #5207 of 5310 Old 04-28-2014, 09:04 AM
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Dug around the first page and last few pages of this thread and couldn't quickly find an answer to the questions, suspect they're here, but I'm on a return window time crunch. Apologize for any duplication I may or may not be adding to.


Picked up a Panny 50s60 open box yesterday. Thought I had checked it for IR in the store but used poor technique (wrong content) and missed it. I have top and bottom bar IR, ESPN logo IR, and something weird going on up and down the left side of the screen (doesn't seem to match TV menus but seems like some kind of menu thingy). Panel has a little over 3300 hours on it. I do not have disney wow disk. I have run the built in screen wipe, ballparking 5 hours. I have recently switched to vivid + crank up brightness with the screen wipe thinking that will make it more effect and reduce the amount of time needed to get rid of this IR. I can download and run other content if there's some screen wipe utility available online you all think is better then the built in utility. I have run the slides on another panel, but that's not for wiping right? I feel like the IR is getting dimmer, but who really knows... I do have a 55st30 and am familiar with the Panny quick to come quick to go IR and that is not a huge deal to me as long as it is temporary.

1) How do you distinguish between IR and Burn In? How long do I run the wipe before declaring, that's burn in and this wipe technique isn't going to fix it?
2) Is vivid + max brightness a good or a bad idea for the screen wipe and why?
3) I can get a LG 60PN5000 plasma at about the same price. Do you all think the 60" LG 60PN5000 new in box > 50" Panny 50S60? If this is burn in and does not go away I think I will be unhappy with it long term. If it goes away I think I'm happy with the Panny.
4) Should I try something other than the built in screen wipe?

Thanks for your time
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post #5208 of 5310 Old 04-28-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Dug around the first page and last few pages of this thread and couldn't quickly find an answer to the questions, suspect they're here, but I'm on a return window time crunch. Apologize for any duplication I may or may not be adding to.


Picked up a Panny 50s60 open box yesterday. Thought I had checked it for IR in the store but used poor technique (wrong content) and missed it. I have top and bottom bar IR, ESPN logo IR, and something weird going on up and down the left side of the screen (doesn't seem to match TV menus but seems like some kind of menu thingy). Panel has a little over 3300 hours on it. I do not have disney wow disk. I have run the built in screen wipe, ballparking 5 hours. I have recently switched to vivid + crank up brightness with the screen wipe thinking that will make it more effect and reduce the amount of time needed to get rid of this IR. I can download and run other content if there's some screen wipe utility available online you all think is better then the built in utility. I have run the slides on another panel, but that's not for wiping right? I feel like the IR is getting dimmer, but who really knows... I do have a 55st30 and am familiar with the Panny quick to come quick to go IR and that is not a huge deal to me as long as it is temporary.
Where did you buy it from? I got a 65ST60 from HHGregg and had to return it. They are FORCED to leave all display TVs on ESPN, and this causes all their display plasmas to suffer horrific burn-in. As for that "something weird going on up and down the left side of the screen" ESPN has those "Up Next" things on the left side of the screen. I had a clear as day ESPN logo on the bottom right, and clear as day "Up Next" burn-in on the entire left side. Mine had 3200 hours on it.
1) How do you distinguish between IR and Burn In? How long do I run the wipe before declaring, that's burn in and this wipe technique isn't going to fix it?
If the TV has 3300 hours on it, and all those hours have been on ESPN, it's burn-in. There is NOTHING you can do to fix it. I gave mine 3 weeks of normal viewing mixed with screen wipes every night while I was sleeping. Made ZERO difference.
2) Is vivid + max brightness a good or a bad idea for the screen wipe and why?
At this point, try whatever you think might work.
3) I can get a LG 60PN5000 plasma at about the same price. Do you all think the 60" LG 60PN5000 new in box > 50" Panny 50S60? If this is burn in and does not go away I think I will be unhappy with it long term. If it goes away I think I'm happy with the Panny.
Hate to sound pessimistic, but if it was on ESPN for 3300 hours, it's not going away. Return the thing as fast as you can. I don't know enough about the LG, though. Sorry.
4) Should I try something other than the built in screen wipe?
(Beating a dead horse) Return it. You have burn-in. Sorry.

Thanks for your time
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post #5209 of 5310 Old 04-29-2014, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 View Post

I don't know. I had a pro Panasonic plasma bought new in '05, and it never had IR. How do new plasmas get IR? I honestly don't know. I thought IR was simply a trait of some plasma displays. It's really bad, though. Was at a friend's today, and they have a Sony LCD, that showed zero traces of IR. And I have another friend with a Sharp Elite LCD (from '11 or '12) and it has zero IR. If I knew back in December when I now know about this plasma and IR, I wouldn't have purchased it.

LCD doesn't suffer from IR.

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post #5210 of 5310 Old 04-29-2014, 09:39 AM
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Right, William.
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post #5211 of 5310 Old 04-30-2014, 02:09 PM
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What I find funny is that my 5300 series 60" Samsung gets plenty of temporary IR. But my prior 42" Samsung 720p plasma, which I had for three years, never showed the slightest trace of IR, no matter what content I watched. And I used to watch a lot of 4:3. I didn't even know what IR was until I purchased my 60"

Why didn't the 42" suffer from it?
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post #5212 of 5310 Old 05-02-2014, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerPC View Post

What I find funny is that my 5300 series 60" Samsung gets plenty of temporary IR. But my prior 42" Samsung 720p plasma, which I had for three years, never showed the slightest trace of IR, no matter what content I watched. And I used to watch a lot of 4:3. I didn't even know what IR was until I purchased my 60"

Why didn't the 42" suffer from it?

I was talking to a guy about this the other day. I watch my 65" VT60 from about 6.5ft away and I can see some temporary IR when I leave a menu or something static for a couple minutes. He pretty much told me 90% of it is a combination of viewing distance, ambient light, and panel contrast. Well, I fit in all three of those categories: I sit close to a big screen, I watch it in a pitch black room, and the panel has an excellent contrast ratio. The other 10% is just differences in the way the panel is designed and built.

Like anything else you hear, take it with a grain of salt, but the guy I spoke with has been into video & audio for quite a while.
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post #5213 of 5310 Old 05-03-2014, 06:07 PM
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I too have had older Panasonic plasmas (pre-3D) and zero issues with stubborn IR and wondered why some of the newer Panasonic panels seems be more susceptible to IR.

 

Then I came across an article on Flatpanels HD that really intrigued me:

 

"Retention / burn-in has been one of the issues that have plagued the plasma technology since its inception. When it was finally reduced to an insignificant level, 3D came along and caused new issues due to a new type of phosphor. With ST60 we are approaching good territory again, and we only saw very minor retention on ST60 even though we used it for various tasks, including a PC desktop. Panasonic has also implemented a number of anti-retention techniques such as a pixel orbiter that moves images a few pixels to the side, as well as a detector that turns off the picture if you leave the TV on the Smart Viera home screen. Retention is not a major issue on ST60 and we consider it an improvement over last year but do not expect a perfect retention-free TV."

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Link to article

 

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1366730214

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post #5214 of 5310 Old 05-04-2014, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn14 View Post

I sit close to a big screen, I watch it in a pitch black room, and the panel has an excellent contrast ratio.
How far away are you? ISF rule of thumb is 1½x panel size minimum. DISCLAIMER: I learned this in my cert class around '05-'06, when stuff was beginning the full 1080p revolution. Personally I like at least 1¾x, and if at all possible 2x. I always go as close to 2x on the small side, and even more when possible for customer installs. (Recommend at least, I'll educate, but they're paying so I'll drop a seat 2 feet from the panel if that's what they want.) Also use the the folding chair technique, in another theater if needed, to dial in their preference.

You should definitely pick up a d6500 bulb, a socket for a paper lantern or equivalent, and a dimmer. Pitch black viewing really isn't ideal. If you can get your panel a foot or two off the wall, place the bulb near the panel and point it so you get 360° of light around the panel. (Angle it up if you're lighting up gear or a stand under the panel.) Then sit back with the dimmer and adjust. If you like it, which I think you will if you watch for a day or two, something more permanent can be installed and controlled with a remote or tablet. If you can't do behind the panel then a couple bulbs behind your viewing position on the side walls in sconces directing up works too. This option is also used if your walls aren't a good color and even a dim glow seems to blow out around the panel.
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Originally Posted by zgpsh1967 View Post

When it was finally reduced to an insignificant level, 3D came along and caused new issues due to a new type of phosphor.

Yet another problem caused by everyone and their mother only building 3D capable panels. Your average consumer is led to believe that 3D capability is needed for future proofing, or just plain think they need 3D, and never even using it. I'd rather have all that 3D tech taken out, and have the cost difference go to better processing/panel tech.
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Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

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post #5215 of 5310 Old 05-05-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn14 View Post

I was talking to a guy about this the other day. I watch my 65" VT60 from about 6.5ft away and I can see some temporary IR when I leave a menu or something static for a couple minutes. He pretty much told me 90% of it is a combination of viewing distance, ambient light, and panel contrast. Well, I fit in all three of those categories: I sit close to a big screen, I watch it in a pitch black room, and the panel has an excellent contrast ratio. The other 10% is just differences in the way the panel is designed and built.

Like anything else you hear, take it with a grain of salt, but the guy I spoke with has been into video & audio for quite a while.

Temporary IR is normal and sounds like it’s not an issue for you. Ambient light and viewing distance do nothing for IR except perhaps make it more visible. Hi contrast ration can cause temporary IR but it sounds as if you IR dissipates quickly. I have a 60” and sit anywhere from 10-10½ feet from my screen, depending on my position from the couch. I watch my TV in a dark room with the panel backlit as well.
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post #5216 of 5310 Old 05-05-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceberg86300 View Post


Yet another problem caused by everyone and their mother only building 3D capable panels. Your average consumer is led to believe that 3D capability is needed for future proofing, or just plain think they need 3D, and never even using it. I'd rather have all that 3D tech taken out, and have the cost difference go to better processing/panel tech.

Great point. My ST50 is 3D capable and I have used it a total of 2 times and then only when my niece and nephew begged me to watch a 3D movie. I definitely prefer a good 2D 1080p movie over any 3D version.
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post #5217 of 5310 Old 05-06-2014, 07:56 AM
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Your posts have been very encouraging. My one month old VT60 has IR from the ID Discovery channel. My wife loves that channel and watched for hours and hours. She feels horrible about it and some of the things I have done have helped. I'm hoping it will go away completely as this TV is getting near impossible to find.

Here's a video I posted on YouTube with the description of the troubleshooting I've done.


Here's an update. As you can see, after about two months there is significant reduction in the IR.

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post #5218 of 5310 Old 05-06-2014, 08:06 AM
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Here's an update. As you can see, after about two months there is significant reduction in the IR.


Thank you for this. During the 2 months, how noticeable would say the IR was visable on every day viewing, or how distracting? Could you sit down and enjoy a movie without being bothered by it?
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post #5219 of 5310 Old 05-06-2014, 10:53 AM
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The only time I could see it was with a light background. It never really was visible otherwise. But the fact that it was there bothered me. biggrin.gif
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post #5220 of 5310 Old 05-06-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gossamer88 View Post

The only time I could see it was with a light background. It never really was visible otherwise. But the fact that it was there bothered me. biggrin.gif

Yeah, I know it's bothersome. I'm myself am starting to come to the conclusion that there are worse things to be bothered by with TV's than this.
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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